Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 152 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4531 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Are you talking about using Cinema picture mode and BT2020? I am not saying that. Using Rec 709 color space, if you select Cinema picture mode, the filter is used. This should not give you over saturated colors.
I wish that were the case Mike but unfortunately it most certainly is not

The CINEMA Picture Mode supports 6 number Color Profile, namely:

BT.709
BT.2020
DCI
VIDEO
CINEMA
HDR

The only ones that use the color filter are: BT.2020, DCI, and CINEMA; wherein ALL of these do not track REC.709, but track either BT.2020 (BT.2020) or DCI-P3 (DCI / CINEMA) color gamuts, so cannot be used with SDR

If you select BT.709 Color Profile with the CINEMA Picture Mode then the filter is not used

The factory default for the CINEMA Picture Mode is the CINEMA Color Profile, which does use the filter, but tracks DCI-P3 which you can see here, so cannot be used for SDR:






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post #4532 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 08:15 AM
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One thing that I noticed that N5 also misses that X7900 has is the automatic lens cover. Do people usually put on the lens cover when the projector is not in use? I'm pretty sure if the lens cover is not automated I would easily forget to put on the cover. Does this mean I need to clean up the lens more often or does it even matter at all?
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post #4533 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Reko Tiira View Post
I'm new to projectors and I would really appreciate input from more experienced users on this dilemma I am facing.

I've read great things about the DLA-X7900/RSA540 and I was able to find a good deal on it and ordered it before they went basically extinct (it's impossible to get one now). I just received a message today that my X7900 is available for pick-up.

The dealer told me in a side-sentence that the new N5/N7 should be available "shortly" and asked do I want to wait for that instead and even gave me a pretty good deal on it. I had already kind of decided before not to wait because the price tag of N5 is over 2000 euros more expensive than the X7900, but with the discount it'd be little less than that. I've read about the differences between the X7900 and N5 and tried to figure out whether the extra price tag makes sense for me.
Problem is no one has even seen the N5/NX7/RS1000 in the flesh.........
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post #4534 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reko Tiira View Post
One thing that I noticed that N5 also misses that X7900 has is the automatic lens cover. Do people usually put on the lens cover when the projector is not in use? I'm pretty sure if the lens cover is not automated I would easily forget to put on the cover. Does this mean I need to clean up the lens more often or does it even matter at all?
It doesn't matter at all...
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post #4535 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
UPDATE:

Here are my amended recommendations:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My PICTURE MODE and COLOR PROFILE initial setup and recommended settings as per follows:

SDR:

If you don't want to use the color filter --> PICTURE MODE: NATURAL

If you want to use the color filter... and own a JVC RS3000/NX9 --> PICTURE MODE: THX

(Note: You won't need to change the COLOR PROFILE setting for either of these as the factory default is the correct setting)

If you want to use the color filter... and own a JVC RS2000/NX7 --> PICTURE MODE: USER1 --> COLOR PROFILE: CUSTOM1 + Upload the attached custom gamut file


HDR:

If you don't want to use the color filter --> PICTURE MODE: HDR10 --> COLOR PROFILE: HDR

If you want to use the color filter --> PICTURE MODE: HDR10 --> COLOR PROFILE: BT2020

(Note: HDR10 PICTURE MODE will be switched to automatically by the projector in response to an HDR video signal)


Good stuff but I will caution on using the THX mode. If it is anything like the models of the past, there is a chance it limits your ability to do any calibration/adjustment to some settings. I can understand some talking about gamut coverage but just about every JVC I've ever measured covers 99+% of 709 with no filter at all. If you find the Standard color profile doesn't fit the bill, Custom 1 typically does (only available in user picture modes). Or you can load the 709 profile that Manni created a long time ago in his calibration thread. Cutting your light output by as much as 20% for less than 1% gamut coverage seems rather silly to me. Typical dE's for 709 at 100% saturation on a calibrated JVC is well below 2 and typically below 1. Usually the only issues are the hue shift in 100% green and saturation tracking above 60% with red.
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post #4536 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reko Tiira View Post
One thing that I noticed that N5 also misses that X7900 has is the automatic lens cover. Do people usually put on the lens cover when the projector is not in use? I'm pretty sure if the lens cover is not automated I would easily forget to put on the cover. Does this mean I need to clean up the lens more often or does it even matter at all?

My X990 has an automatic lens cover. I don't believe the x7900 has one.

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post #4537 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Good stuff but I will caution on using the THX mode. If it is anything like the models of the past, there is a chance it limits your ability to do any calibration/adjustment to some settings. I can understand some talking about gamut coverage but just about every JVC I've ever measured covers 99+% of 709 with no filter at all. If you find the Standard color profile doesn't fit the bill, Custom 1 typically does (only available in user picture modes). Or you can load the 709 profile that Manni created a long time ago in his calibration thread. Cutting your light output by as much as 20% for less than 1% gamut coverage seems rather silly to me. Typical dE's for 709 at 100% saturation on a calibrated JVC is well below 2 and typically below 1. Usually the only issues are the hue shift in 100% green and saturation tracking above 60% with red.
Kris, thank you for that perspective on the well calibrated JVC PJ. Could you please weigh in on the likely real world viewing experience regarding choosing the HDR color profile (no color filter) versus BT2020 (with color filter) for home theater applications with PJ & screens of over 35 fL for those of us with NX7/9 projectors? Thanks!
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post #4538 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Wow you've checked all the boxes in my opinion:

1) You're close enough to your 120" screen to benefit from the native 4K.
2) You're 50% games. There's a *huge* difference between 4K and 1080p/eshift gaming.


Lumens will be a wash. JVC will get the black floor pretty good even on the N5. I'd definitely go with the N5 in your case.



And this. This will be far better with the projector tone mapping, in my opinion. Although Apple TV = big ugh
I wonder about the lack of the 2nd iris on the N5? If you configure your screen/projector for the best possible HDR won't SDR be way too bright? On the 7 and 9 you can use the 2nd iris to bring the SDR brightness down but you can't on the N5 right?

Entirely possible that I don't understand!
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post #4539 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Good stuff but I will caution on using the THX mode. If it is anything like the models of the past, there is a chance it limits your ability to do any calibration/adjustment to some settings. I can understand some talking about gamut coverage but just about every JVC I've ever measured covers 99+% of 709 with no filter at all. If you find the Standard color profile doesn't fit the bill, Custom 1 typically does (only available in user picture modes). Or you can load the 709 profile that Manni created a long time ago in his calibration thread. Cutting your light output by as much as 20% for less than 1% gamut coverage seems rather silly to me. Typical dE's for 709 at 100% saturation on a calibrated JVC is well below 2 and typically below 1. Usually the only issues are the hue shift in 100% green and saturation tracking above 60% with red.
It would be silly indeed to lose 20% of light for 1% gamut cover. But some users can only reach as little as 90% of rec-709 without the filter. Those don't have a choice. They need the filter if they want to reach reference. PM/email me if you want more info on this, as it does't look like you've experienced this yourself, which would suggest it's not frequent indeed.

The *main* downside of using a custom profile without the filter for rec-709 is that you can't run a gamma autocal in a straightforward way, because there is no factory profile that targets rec-709 using the filter and the gamma autocal only works with factory profiles (unless this has changed with V11, I'll confirm when I have a chance to look at it).

I hope that JVC listens and will offer factory profiles for all combinations: BT2020 with/without the filter (we already have this), DCI-P3 with/without the filter (I think we only have with), Rec-709 with/without the filter (I think we only have without). We need this flexibility to be able to use the JVC Autocal to handle most situations in the best possible way. Otherwise it's possible but it's quite convoluted and sub-optimal. If you could use your influence to ask them to implement this in the future, it would be great.

The other thing we need is a profile off mode (CMS disabled, max brightness, to select the native, unprocessed gamut) *with* the filter enabled. They are still only offering profile off without the filter, which means that you can't get the cleanest path (best RGB separation) for a 3D LUT *and* get the widest possible native gamut, which is simply crazy. I know that @bobof understands this, but it would be great if more people with JVC's ear (you!) could advocate for this. It would significantly improve 3D LUT calibrations in some cases.

THX is a bad idea for the reasons you mentioned, I was hoping that someone else would mention this.
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post #4540 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post

PQ describes brightnesses, yes, but the eye doesn't see brightness, it sees contrast with the iris being the mechanism for ranging that contrast; with those brightnesses viewed through a window against a 5 nit background. You can't consider the 2000 nits peak for those sets without also simultaneously considering the 5 nit D65 surround lighting that REC2100 / SMPTE would have you looking at it amidst for a "reference" viewing environment. You can do the math as to what contrast ratio this leaves you looking at on screen. HDR for television has been conceived to give this improved dynamic range in the home environment, which was clearly lacking before if you considered a 5 - 12 nit surround with 100-120 nit image.
I'm not sure I am following you or not, so perhaps you could clarify? When you say the eye doesn't see brightness, but contrast with the iris being the mechanism. Prior to my RS440, I owned an RS4910. In my set-up, the 4910 was giving me about 50% more native contrast but with around 30% less light. I much prefer the RS440 as the extra brightness made a much bigger impact for HDR despite the black floor being higher. (Note, my room is also painted/carpeted completely black along with Protostar and velvet treatments closer to the screen).
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post #4541 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Good stuff but I will caution on using the THX mode. If it is anything like the models of the past, there is a chance it limits your ability to do any calibration/adjustment to some settings.

I can understand some talking about gamut coverage but just about every JVC I've ever measured covers 99+% of 709 with no filter at all. If you find the Standard color profile doesn't fit the bill, Custom 1 typically does (only available in user picture modes). Or you can load the 709 profile that Manni created a long time ago in his calibration thread.
These recommendations are predominantly intended for the layperson with respect to initial setup and operating the projector out-of-the-box, wherein my suggestion regarding using the NATURAL and THX modes with SDR is with this in mind. Trying to keep things as simple as possible for folks

I already attached the 709 custom profile for folks to use to that post. The RS2000/NX7/N7 does not have the THX mode so the next best option for owners who for whatever reason wish to use the color filter with SDR is to upload and use this 709 custom profile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Cutting your light output by as much as 20% for less than 1% gamut coverage seems rather silly to me. Typical dE's for 709 at 100% saturation on a calibrated JVC is well below 2 and typically below 1. Usually the only issues are the hue shift in 100% green and saturation tracking above 60% with red.
I could not agree more; where in fact I have actually measured a 25% reduction in light output... BUT there are folks who will be wishing to use the color filter with SDR for other reasons, so we have to allow for this

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post #4542 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 09:38 AM
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I've run into a new issue with my JVC RS3000. I previously ran an autocal and wanted to restore my init file. I've tried it several times now and it gets to no more than 20% before the projector goes black and then the front lights start flashing orange / red requiring power be pulled. The JVC app of course throws a connection error at this point. The HDR mode was completely screwed up after this since it wasn't loading the full data and I ended up just running a new autocal to correct it. I guess it's not the end of the world that I can't restore this as I'm having it professionally calibrated in a few weeks but still very annoying.
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post #4543 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I'm not sure I am following you or not, so perhaps you could clarify? When you say the eye doesn't see brightness, but contrast with the iris being the mechanism. Prior to my RS440, I owned an RS4910. In my set-up, the 4910 was giving me about 50% more native contrast but with around 30% less light. I much prefer the RS440 as the extra brightness made a much bigger impact for HDR despite the black floor being higher. (Note, my room is also painted/carpeted completely black along with Protostar and velvet treatments closer to the screen).
The contrast vs brightness comment is mostly aimed at the comparisons which keep being made to high nit TVs as being the reason I need mega nits for projection HDR. The eye is a contrast detector, not an absolute brightness measurement device, which is why discussions about the relative merits of displays need to bear in mind the viewing environment as the contrast it can detect depends on the environment. The reference environment for those HDR displays is 5-10 nits of background light in the room, which is a strong bias to the eye.

There is a load of information here which I won't pretend to fully understand.
https://www.telescope-optics.net/eye...y_response.htm

With regards to your system, I can't answer why you preferred one over the other without knowing more. It is possible that you're 30% darker system was just not bright enough above the black level of your room to give a satisfying image. You obviously do need to reach a certain level of brightness to start to saturate your eye to experience a "bright" image. It's also possible the calibration was different resulting in quite a different response to the same HDR imagery.
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post #4544 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by kdog750 View Post
Does the NX7 blow away the RS640 overall in PQ?
I've noticed this question worded very similarly from several posters in this thread. Just seems like such an odd question given the overall tenor of the thread, particularly when coming from a forum member of over 11 years.

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post #4545 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Kris, thank you for that perspective on the well calibrated JVC PJ. Could you please weigh in on the likely real world viewing experience regarding choosing the HDR color profile (no color filter) versus BT2020 (with color filter) for home theater applications with PJ & screens of over 35 fL for those of us with NX7/9 projectors? Thanks!
This is pretty subjective overall. You are essentially going from 90% of the P3 gamut to 100%. But video is always tricky. It is easy to do a side by side comparison and see the differences with some content, but then you always have to remember that we don't watch content side by side. Our eyes are amazing optical comparators, so the difference may be huge in that scenario, but in casual viewing you may not even notice it.

I do see an improvement with the filter in greens and reds. If I had 35 fL to use, I would probably run the filter and take the hit down to about 28 fL. With proper tone mapping that would still look outstanding. If I was in the low twenties to high teens, I would not use the filter and get the light.

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post #4546 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mike greer View Post
I wonder about the lack of the 2nd iris on the N5? If you configure your screen/projector for the best possible HDR won't SDR be way too bright? On the 7 and 9 you can use the 2nd iris to bring the SDR brightness down but you can't on the N5 right?

Entirely possible that I don't understand!
You still have the lens iris and you have two lamp modes. Shouldn't be a problem to dial in your white point for both and still get a contrast boost. It just won't be as much as you would get with the dual iris setup.
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post #4547 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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@Manni01 and @Kris Deering how about this?:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PICTURE MODE and COLOR PROFILE initial setup and recommended settings as per follows:

SDR:

If you don't want to use the color filter --> PICTURE MODE: NATURAL (if out-of-the-box) or USER1 (if calibrating)

If you want to use the color filter... and own a JVC RS3000/NX9 --> PICTURE MODE: THX (if out-of-the-box) or PICTURE MODE: USER1 --> COLOR PROFILE: CUSTOM1 + Upload the attached custom gamut file (if calibrating)

If you want to use the color filter... and own a JVC RS2000/NX7 --> PICTURE MODE: USER1 --> COLOR PROFILE: CUSTOM1 + Upload the attached custom gamut file


HDR:

If you don't want to use the color filter --> PICTURE MODE: HDR10 --> COLOR PROFILE: HDR

If you want to use the color filter --> PICTURE MODE: HDR10 --> COLOR PROFILE: BT2020

(Note: HDR10 PICTURE MODE will be switched to automatically by the projector in response to an HDR video signal)


Attached Files
File Type: zip Rec-709F.zip (25.1 KB, 26 views)

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post #4548 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by desray2k View Post
It doesn't matter at all...
Yeah it does...if you don't check it frequently and if dusty, don't clean it properly. For some it would amount to being very critical indeed.


I have a discerning individual who was both surprised and pretty disappointed his NX9 didn't have a Auto-Lens Cover....for the price he paid.

His x950r had one......and although he's not a Smoker, and his A/C does a very respectable job of scrubbing his air of junk, dust is dist.


At least this as a side note:

His Home is so dust free, he had never cleaned his Filter on the x950 in 4 years! I checked it and it had virtually no dust build up....at all.

Yet still he fretted over the lack of a motorized Lens Cover.
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post #4549 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by riwi View Post
I read in the promo materials on page 1 that the N7/NX9 (like the X7900) have a Dual Aperture Design.
I understood that this means there is an Iris/Aperture near the lamp as well as in the lens itself.
For the N5 (like the X5x00 range) there is only the Iris/Aperture in the lens and the internal Lamp iris is not there.


Is there any documentation that shows this clearly? I can't find this in the specification list on the JVC web site. I thought having this extra iris near the lamp was the reason the N7 has 2x the contrast figures compared to the N5.


I have an N5 on order. Just waiting for it to arrive to replace my x5000.
Can anyone confirm that the N7 and NX9 have the extra iris? Or is it the same iris that can set to a fixed position + dynamic?
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post #4550 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog750
Does the NX7 blow away the RS640 overall in PQ?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
I've noticed this question worded very similarly from several posters in this thread. Just seems like such an odd question given the overall tenor of the thread, particularly when coming from a forum member of over 11 years.

Kevin
Well I've been around even longer, and I've had extensive experience with JVCs, and I'll tell you of a certainty that the 640's 160:000:1 Native Contrast makes a huge difference...a difference only mitigated to a point by the NX7s' Native 4K and select other features.

I mean c'mon. Let's call it as it really is here! I'm an advocate for the NX-units (...except the 5'er...too much $$$ for too little performance...) but there is every bit as much of a good set of reasons to opt for a x790r (...or a x990r iffin' ya can find one...) if indeed not more than spending 2x more for what amounts to be at best somewhat questionable gains elsewhere.

There will come a time when JVC figures out how to deliver 2200 lumen and manage to reclaim the Contrast lost to maintaining that higher figure...and then things may well change. But until then, and while JVC opts to offer a PJ of the x790's ilk, the NX7 can be seen as falling short as far as Contrast and even image quality under certain 4K content presentations....at the price point it commands at present.

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post #4551 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 10:45 AM
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Just quietly went into my theater and checked the projector shelf, no sign of the elusive Canadian NX7. Have to check with my dealer to see if he has an estimated delivery date. Ordered back in October.
same - at least will have couple hundred 4k films waiting to view

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post #4552 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 11:15 AM
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The contrast vs brightness comment is mostly aimed at the comparisons which keep being made to high nit TVs as being the reason I need mega nits for projection HDR. The eye is a contrast detector, not an absolute brightness measurement device, which is why discussions about the relative merits of displays need to bear in mind the viewing environment as the contrast it can detect depends on the environment. The reference environment for those HDR displays is 5-10 nits of background light in the room, which is a strong bias to the eye.

There is a load of information here which I won't pretend to fully understand.
https://www.telescope-optics.net/eye...y_response.htm

With regards to your system, I can't answer why you preferred one over the other without knowing more. It is possible that you're 30% darker system was just not bright enough above the black level of your room to give a satisfying image. You obviously do need to reach a certain level of brightness to start to saturate your eye to experience a "bright" image. It's also possible the calibration was different resulting in quite a different response to the same HDR imagery.

Both units were calibrated similarly by Chad B. I also think my experience is similar to what many front projection owners experience: more light is better with UHD even if that means making some contrast compromises to a point - (no, I would not want to go down to a DLP level @ ~2000:1 for more brightness!). But there is a reason why most people are using high lamp and iris wide. I also do not believe zoning has to do with the primary reason HDR can be so appealing on a flat panel. Sure, it definitely helps, but the appeal can also be apparent on less sophisticated flat panels.

Last edited by DavidHir; 02-04-2019 at 11:25 AM.
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post #4553 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 11:20 AM
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It doesn't matter at all...
Agreed and this has been my experience as well having owned projectors with and without a lens cover. If it makes you feel better with a non lens cover model, just get a Rocket Air Blower and blow off the lens every few weeks which is what I did with my 45 and still do with my Benq w7000. I wouldn't let the exclusion of an automatic lens cover in any way, shape or form bother me or influence my purchase one way or the other though.
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post #4554 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by kdog750
Does the NX7 blow away the RS640 overall in PQ?






Well I've been around even longer, and I've had extensive experience with JVCs, and I'll tell you of a certainty that the 640's 160:000:1 Native Contrast makes a huge difference...a difference only mitigated to a point by the NX7s' Native 4K and select other features.

I mean c'mon. Let's call it as it really is here! I'm an advocate for the NX-units (...except the 5'er...too much $$$ for too little performance...) but there is every bit as much of a good set of reasons to opt for a x790r (...or a x990r iffin' ya can find one...) if indeed not more than spending 2x more for what amounts to be at best somewhat questionable gains elsewhere.

There will come a time when JVC figures out how to deliver 2200 lumen and manage to reclaim the Contrast lost to maintaining that higher figure...and then things may well change. But until then, and while JVC opts to offer a PJ of the x790's ilk, the NX7 can be seen as falling short as far as Contrast and even image quality under certain 4K content presentations....at the price point it commands at present.
I was not intimating that it was obvious that this new line "blows away" the prior. In fact, just the opposite. I think it is clear that most overall improvements are incremental upon reaching a certain level, where I believe we currently reside.

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post #4555 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
I was not intimating that it was obvious that this new line "blows away" the prior. In fact, just the opposite. I think it is clear that most overall improvements are incremental upon reaching a certain level, where I believe we currently reside.

Kevin
Totally agree especially considering the lamp is exactly the same as the past 3 generations. Now when they start putting 4000 lumen lasers in the base models, that's a bit more than an incremental change
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post #4556 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 12:14 PM
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I wonder about the lack of the 2nd iris on the N5? If you configure your screen/projector for the best possible HDR won't SDR be way too bright? On the 7 and 9 you can use the 2nd iris to bring the SDR brightness down but you can't on the N5 right?

Entirely possible that I don't understand!
It is possible it will be too bright, particularly if you have a smaller, higher gain screen. The extra iris allowed the previous 7 & 9 range of JVC units to get all the way down to something like 220 lumens output at -15, whereas the lowest the 5 series could manage was something like 450 lumens (I'm going from memory, +/- 20 lumens)

I went for the X7900 on that basis, however I hadn't factored in just how dim my lying AT screen would be , so it was a waste from that point of view. In any case I get some very nice extra contrast from the lamp iris, and get the wider colour gamut possible with the filter, too.
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post #4557 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Both units were calibrated similarly by Chad B. I also think my experience is similar to what many front projection owners experience: more light is better with UHD even if that means making some contrast compromises to a point - (no, I would not want to go down to a DLP level @ ~2000:1 for more brightness!). But there is a reason why most people are using high lamp and iris wide. I also do not believe zoning has to do with the primary reason HDR can be so appealing on a flat panel. Sure, it definitely helps, but the appeal can also be apparent on less sophisticated flat panels.
There is a reason, and much of that until now has been that the factory HDR modes have been very dark so you needed the higher luminance to just put the diffuse white into a sensible ballpark. Advanced tone mapping changes that. Case in point - folk are reporting much better HDR results with these new projectors yet they haven't actually got brighter or any more contrast. Something obviously gives there...

In any case, I don't profess to know all the answers. Looking at the link I sent what is interesting is when you think about the luminance levels you will get during dark scenes in a batcave cinema room you are into a completely different area of the eye's response to a reference monitor in a reference HDR mastering room (in the scotopic and mesiopic regions <3nits) whereas the reference HDR room puts all the eye's response in the photopic range of response. They're interesting differences.

It would be interesting to experiment now that very contrasty very bright large displays are coming available - it should be possible to contrive tests for all these theories.
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post #4558 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
I was not intimating that it was obvious that this new line "blows away" the prior. In fact, just the opposite. I think it is clear that most overall improvements are incremental upon reaching a certain level, where I believe we currently reside.

Kevin
I'm struggling to glean from this thread how the NX projectors compare to the older lineup, or even other projectors - which is pretty much the comparison I'd like to see given that I plan on purchasing a high end projector of some sort.

Even evidence of incremental improvements would be nice. Are we gaining overall picture quality while sacrificing some contrast, for example? How close does the NX9 get to the Z1, or the Sony 760ES?

Also waiting on the shootout at Cine4Home.de for the same reason
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post #4559 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 12:57 PM
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For those of you considering use of the projector at or near 100% vertical shift.

After testing the RS3000 with zero vertical and horizontal shift, I was intrigued to try out my preferred mounting location, which is a projector box way up at 95% of vertical shift.

A friend of mine assisted with the install and we conducted a lot of A/B testing between 4K/8K first. Interestingly, his views match mine preferring 8K presentation although we did find some content where we both preferred 4K, In summary, 80% preference to 8K, no additional noise or instability noted. Both are very crisp and I didn’t want to lose too much of that going to the new location.

Well, after installing and setting up the lens adjustments we reran the material we had been watching. We both felt the picture quality was comparable at seating distance and even close up. It would take a trained eye at seating distance to notice the softness and I suspect many of us would fail a blind A/B test. After my friend left I threw up the QBF pattern and under close inspection it’s easy to identify some softness (2nd photo) but it’s a surprisingly consistent image and even focus in to the corners. One big advantage of the projector box location is the fan noise, which has abated considerably. I want to do some more extended viewing before finalizing the decision about location and whether I can live with the compromise. But for now, well done JVC on this amazing 100mm glass lens – very nice!

Now a couple of improvement suggestions if JVC is listening.

1) Please consider a motorized lens cover. I’ve been used to this in my Sony for years and never any issues, it protects one of the most important parts of the projector. We are never going to use the shipping cover on the JVC lens so it will just be left naked to the elements. Would be nice to see in a future model.
2) Lens memory. It’s great to have all the installation modes, but switching between them is very slow. Since we all like metrics, my seven-year-old Sony switches from 16:9 to Cinemascope in 11.9 seconds and from Cinemascope to 16:9 in 15.4 seconds. The RS3000 switches from 16:9 to Cinemascope and also Cinemascope to 16:9 in 39.2 seconds. I appreciate the JVC is adjusting more parameters but perhaps you can speed up those servomotors.

In summary though, I am liking the projector so far. I had a Sony 675ES dealer sample in my home theater for a while and this RS3000 is significantly better. I’m intrigued now to understand how much better the laser units from both Sony and JVC are compared to this.

Next step for me is professional calibration. Can anybody suggest a contact in the SW Florida area or point me in the right direction? Thanks.

CAUTION – NON-PROFESSIONAL PHOTOS ATTACHED. USE AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION.
40 Seconds?!

Sheesh. I'm used to my Panasonic which takes about 3 seconds.

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Projector - JVC D-ILA NX7; Receiver - Yamaha Adventage A3050
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post #4560 of 20448 Old 02-04-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyWilkinson View Post
I'm struggling to glean from this thread how the NX projectors compare to the older lineup, or even other projectors - which is pretty much the comparison I'd like to see given that I plan on purchasing a high end projector of some sort.

Even evidence of incremental improvements would be nice. Are we gaining overall picture quality while sacrificing some contrast, for example? How close does the NX9 get to the Z1, or the Sony 760ES?

Also waiting on the shootout at Cine4Home.de for the same reason
I will be doing just that hopefully on Thursday as I am eager to see that comparison myself. So far nothing convinced me to sell the contrast king with "golden" optics.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
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