Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 161 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4801 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
No, I collected it directly from JVC's UK distributor who receive their shipments directly from the factory via secured pallets and/or containers. So this did not incur damage via standard shipping, which is what was being suggested



Well either JVC released them like that or on the way to the distributor they got damaged. It happens.

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post #4802 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
At those far distances, you probably won't need to upgrade your screen. You're honestly too far away to benefit from native 4K.
Why wouldn't he benefit from native 4k at 13 feet with a 135" screen? I guess I don't understand the comment.

And isn't his issue in part an issue related to the brightness of the NX7, and not just a resolution issue -- since the issue is about seeing "sparklies" from his seating distance? Now I'm totally confused.

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post #4803 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 03:44 PM
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I keep coming close to ordering an RS1000/NX5 but Im leaning towards waiting until the next model year. That way I can save more money towards getting a higher model grade JVC and can possibly skip a bit of these first models growing pains. Ill see if I can wait that long. My Sony 40ES is getting long in the tooth. Very long.
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post #4804 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Reddig View Post
I keep coming close to ordering an RS1000/NX5 but Im leaning towards waiting until the next model year. That way I can save more money towards getting a higher model grade JVC and can possibly skip a bit of these first models growing pains. Ill see if I can wait that long. My Sony 40ES is getting long in the tooth. Very long.
At the very least, if I was you, I'd wait until there's a decent selection of relatively thorough reviews out - and the QC issues have been resolved

That's what I'm going to do - although I have to wait at least 6 months before I can start anyway
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post #4805 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyWilkinson View Post
At the very least, if I was you, I'd wait until there's a decent selection of relatively thorough reviews out - and the QC issues have been resolved

That's what I'm going to do - although I have to wait at least 6 months before I can start anyway
For sure. Ive been eyeing this forum very closely the last few months. I haven't quite made up my mind but Im leaning heavily towards waiting for the next models. My budget can barley allow me to afford an NX5 and honestly Ive always wanted a mid or upper grade JVC. Can't hurt to wait.

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post #4806 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Why wouldn't he benefit from native 4k at 13 feet with a 135" screen? I guess I don't understand the comment.
4K details are seen at the pixel level. You just can't see pixels 13 or 17 feet away from a 135" screen. Even 7 feet away from a 135" screen, in most content, the details in a 4K UHD are subtle. At 7 feet you can see those details in test patterns, uniquely detailed scenes, but you cannot see them in normal content, most the time. At 13 feet, you probably can't really see the details in test patterns, but if you can, it won't be very obvious it'll be very very subtle. In actual content you won't be able to see anything different. I guess if your vision is greater than 20/20 you may benefit more. I'd guess most people that are old enough to afford these projectors are too old for > 20/20 vision.

For me, benefiting from native 4K is more than maybe seeing a difference in a side-by-side test pattern. It requires being close enough to generally see a difference most the time. That's just not happening 13-17 feet away from a 135" screen.

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post #4807 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
If all these units where on a pallet and the pallet got dropped then we have a problem..

Didn't these units ship then called back and then air shipped to make up time for the delay?

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No. Most of these units were manufactured in December and January, after the delay. Then shipped to the US and other countries.
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post #4808 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 03:58 PM
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These QC issues definitely confirm that if you have a projector currently that is functioning, you better keep it until you confirm that your new 4k unit is a good one. I was thinking of selling or giving away my current projector as soon as my NX7 arrives, but it's pretty clear that it's a good idea to have a backup -- in case you have to send your new unit back -- once or twice.
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post #4809 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnnyWilkinson View Post
At the very least, if I was you, I'd wait until there's a decent selection of relatively thorough reviews out - and the QC issues have been resolved

That's what I'm going to do - although I have to wait at least 6 months before I can start anyway
I don't think there are any unique QC issues that will be resolved. The situation of getting a bad unit is no worse than if you ordered up an RS640, RS540 etc. If the unit's bad, advanced replacement exchange happens. so it's not like QC will all the sudden improve over time. The same is true of Sony projectors. Lots of folks receive the unit and it works fine. You never hear from them. A few folks receive something and when it's not working they come on the forums posting about it looking for a solution.

I do think JVC Q/C has dropped in the last 2 or so years. But I don't think there's a short term QC problem on the new line that's going to be solved if you wait. Luckily, JVC's warranty and service is excellent and they take care of you. You won't be screwed or left with a dead unit. They're not super difficult to convince there are problems (like Sony is). And if you're in USA, then you're covered by advanced replacement which means a new unit comes to you, you swap and put the old in the shipping container and send it back. None of this sending in your new projector for a 6 week repair.

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These QC issues definitely confirm that if you have a projector currently that is functioning, you better keep it until you confirm that your new 4k unit is a good one. I was thinking of selling or giving away my current projector as soon as my NX7 arrives, but it's pretty clear that it's a good idea to have a backup -- in case you have to send your new unit back -- once or twice.
Advanced replacement, unless your unit is dead, you dont have to be without and send anything back.

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post #4810 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DennisLJacob View Post
I seem to recall another new owner having a similar problem, only his band color was red. Was that on a RS2000 or a RS3000? Who remembers that?
Out of all of the 3000's and NX9's shipped, I heard of one having this problem.
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post #4811 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
4K details are seen at the pixel level. You just can't see pixels 13 or 17 feet away from a 135" screen. Even 7 feet away from a 135" screen, in most content, the details in a 4K UHD are subtle. At 7 feet you can see those details in test patterns, uniquely detailed scenes, but you cannot see them in normal content, most the time. At 13 feet, you probably can't really see the details in test patterns, but if you can, it won't be very obvious it'll be very very subtle. In actual content you won't be able to see anything different. I guess if your vision is greater than 20/20 you may benefit more. I'd guess most people that are old enough to afford these projectors are too old for > 20/20 vision.

For me, benefiting from native 4K is more than maybe seeing a difference in a side-by-side test pattern. It requires being close enough to generally see a difference most the time. That's just not happening 13-17 feet away from a 135" screen.
So you would say that this chart is incorrect? How would adjust the bottom screen sizes in your opinion -- like how many feet would you subtract? Not trying to be argumentative -- I'm just trying to understand what the "conventional wisdom" might be on when one can see the benefits of 4k. Your opinion seems much more conservative than what I've read elsewhere on this forum.
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post #4812 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Wow, I guess that raises a question about the QC process, suggesting that they are not QC-ing all the units, or that their QC process is not very thorough. Or at a minimum, it suggests that this is perhaps more of a krap shoot than usual in terms of whether you get a good unit.
In the US, all of the RS3000's and NX9's were QC'ed and one still had this problem. Looks like a panel shifted.
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post #4813 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:09 PM
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Advanced replacement, unless your unit is dead, you dont have to be without and send anything back.
Yes, I forgot about that. Of course, that assumes that they have another unit to send you. They seem to be just trickling out. But i suppose that might be fixed in the next month or so -- hopefully.
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post #4814 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
No, I collected it directly from JVC's UK distributor who receive their shipments directly from the factory via secured pallets and/or containers. So this did not incur damage via standard shipping, which is what was being suggested

The question is, did UK JVC QC every unit, like JVC USA? The projectors seem to go through QC a lot faster in Europe, than in the US.
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post #4815 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
So you would say that this chart is incorrect. How would adjust the bottom screen sizes in your opinion -- like how many feet would you subtract? Not trying to be argumentative -- I'm just trying to understand what the "conventional wisdom" might be on when one can see the benefits of 4k. Your opinion seems much more conservative than what I've read elsewhere on this forum.
I have done a ton of side-by-side here. My vision with glasses on is 20/20 solid. I think that chart is incorrect in that it's labeled "4K Worth it", "8K Worth it". I think it should be labeled "4K Visible", "8K Visible".
I started with an eshift JVC 14 feet from a 135" screen. When I "upgraded" to 4K, I bought a 285ES. Playing games, which is the most obvious way to benefit from native 4K, I really couldn't tell the difference at 14 feet away from my screen even wearing glasses. I moved to 10 feet, then 8.5 feet, and am now at 7 feet away. Even at 7 feet away, most of a UHD looks basically the same at 4K and 1080p (HDR aside). Purely from resolution, you will find scenes where you see some extra detail at 4K. A lot of these scenes flash by quickly and are gone. Take Lucy. The scene where the ape is drinking water you can see detail in the back ground, then the drone over the forest, then the quick city scene. You see it all there. That flashes by quickly and you are then seeing 2 faces as people are talking. That does not benefit at 4K resolution even at 7 feet away. And that's most content in a UHD. To get the super small details in a scene, you need to be sitting close especially when it flashes by fast and it's not the primary point being viewed on the screen. 4K details are in background images and things not directly in the foreground. Again, most the time. I'm not saying there aren't some foreground scenes that can show off 4K. But it's really in the fine details.

In games, everything on screen is in sharp focus all the time. The details in the background and distance are blatantly obvious as at 4K you can just see more. Even games really aren't that much different looking 14 feet away from my screen. In fact, games is the reason I made my final move from 8.5 feet to 7 feet from my screen. Sitting close enough, there really is a big wow factor in native 4K.

It's like taking a vision test. At some point the letters get small and you can make out what they are but its hard. The fact that you can tell what the letter is doesn't mean you can comfortably read or see that letter.

I would say the minimum you should be sitting back is the width if your screen. Sitting further, you may notice 4K in some instances but you really aren't benefiting from 4K.

This is easy for anyone with a 4K projector to test. Grab a bean bag or kitchen chair and sit around 0.80-1.0 screen widths from your screen and play this video: http://hifiandtheater.com/files/yokohama-night-4k.mkv. See how much more detail you can make out than 1.3-1.5 screen widths back.

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post #4816 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Even at 7 feet away, most of a UHD looks basically the same at 4K and 1080p (HDR aside).
Assuming you're talking about a big screen (we've been talking about a 135" diagonal) that's shocking to me, and I don't believe it. But I suppose I might be educated when I get my NX7 in a few days (or weeks or months).

So it also seems that when people are extolling the resolution and "sharpness" of the native 4k units on these threads, that this might be baloney? I mean, it seems to me that a lot of these folks are talking about watching normal content from reasonable viewing distances, not standing three feet from their screens and looking at test patterns. At least that's how I interpreted a number of comments from the "average enthusiasts" who have received projectors thus far.
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post #4817 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:36 PM
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I have been excited to get an NX and still am. I am coming from the current top of the line JVC and it looks amazing. I am wondering if I am going to get the value from moving up? Resolution is important but it seems like its hardly noticeable. I have a very large Black Diamond screen that is about 170inch diag / 2:40 running the previous Panamorphic high end lens. However even though I was looking forward to the resolution jump, the contrast is the highest priority. Is it equal or at least not a noticeable drop? the other elements like USB FW upgrades and better functioning HDR are also contributers to my decision, but know I am wondering it it really is worth it. Is a step backwards in PQ?

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post #4818 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Assuming you're talking about a big screen (we've been talking about a 135" diagonal) that's shocking to me, and I don't believe it. But I suppose I might be educated when I get my NX7 in a few days (or weeks or months).

So it also seems that when people are extolling the resolution and "sharpness" of the native 4k units on these threads, that this might be baloney? I mean, it seems to me that a lot of these folks are talking about watching normal content from reasonable viewing distances, not standing three feet from their screens and looking at test patterns. At least that's how I interpreted a number of comments from the "average enthusiasts" who have received projectors thus far.
Another thing to bear in mind is that 20/20 is not 'perfect' vision. It's just the expected average vision a person has. In fact, the majority of younger people have better than 20/20 vision.

I would test it yourself.

For example, from 4m I could see the texture on a 4m Enlightor 4k screen, which went away with the Enlightor Neo material.

That being said, I fully expect that in a lot of scenes I wouldn't be able to immediately spot if someone sneakily put the projector in a lower resolution mode
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post #4819 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Well my JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 comes in VIOLET/PURPLE with a lovely undefeatable RED PUSH above black!




I took an old projector apart to clean the light path and this looks like the result I got when I had a mirror out of alignment.
Its almost identical, but mine was on the left side not the bottom.
Sucks man.
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post #4820 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:56 PM
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Another thing to bear in mind is that 20/20 is not 'perfect' vision. It's just the expected average vision a person has. In fact, the majority of younger people have better than 20/20 vision.

I would test it yourself.

For example, from 4m I could see the texture on a 4m Enlightor 4k screen, which went away with the Enlightor Neo material.

That being said, I fully expect that in a lot of scenes I wouldn't be able to immediately spot if someone sneakily put the projector in a lower resolution mode
Well, my own experience is that the chart I posted above seems to be relatively accurate, based on what I think I see with my eyes. For example, I think I can "appreciate" 1080p on a 65" TV at 11-12 feet. I don't think I would have to get to within 6 or 7 feet to appreciate it (just extrapolating from the chart and previous comments).
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post #4821 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 04:59 PM
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Assuming you're talking about a big screen (we've been talking about a 135" diagonal) that's shocking to me, and I don't believe it. But I suppose I might be educated when I get my NX7 in a few days (or weeks or months).

So it also seems that when people are extolling the resolution and "sharpness" of the native 4k units on these threads, that this might be baloney? I mean, it seems to me that a lot of these folks are talking about watching normal content from reasonable viewing distances, not standing three feet from their screens and looking at test patterns. At least that's how I interpreted a number of comments from the "average enthusiasts" who have received projectors thus far.
This is why people's impressions aren't always reliable. A lot of it depends on what they had before right? It's possible their old 1080p wasn't that sharp or even in focus. You know I noticed things were a little sharper when I moved from my RS500 to an RS640. That had nothing to do with native 4K. But if the RS640 was native 4K, I bet I would have thought that was why.

You'll soon be able to judge for yourself. What size screen do you have? What's your viewing distance? How good is your vision? You should still try my test. Get yourself within 1 screen width and see how much more detail you can see.




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Another thing to bear in mind is that 20/20 is not 'perfect' vision. It's just the expected average vision a person has. In fact, the majority of younger people have better than 20/20 vision.

I would test it yourself.

For example, from 4m I could see the texture on a 4m Enlightor 4k screen, which went away with the Enlightor Neo material.

That being said, I fully expect that in a lot of scenes I wouldn't be able to immediately spot if someone sneakily put the projector in a lower resolution mode
Yea you may have extra good vision right? You're lucky. I think most of us that can afford these are generally older and our vision is *not* perfect.

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post #4822 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 05:08 PM
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This is why people's impressions aren't always reliable. A lot of it depends on what they had before right? It's possible their old 1080p wasn't that sharp or even in focus.
Yes, that's definitely another variable to throw in the mix.

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You'll soon be able to judge for yourself.
Soon? How soon? Do you know something?

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What size screen do you have? What's your viewing distance? How good is your vision?
It'a a 120" inch wide scope screen. Viewing distance is about 12 feet. I think my vision with my glasses is very good. But then I think my hearing is good too, and for some reason my wife says I often don't hear what she's saying.

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Yea you may have extra good vision right? You're lucky. I think most of us that can afford these are generally older and our vision is *not* perfect.
Okay, so I'm old. You don't have to rub it in.
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post #4823 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 05:31 PM
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Not at all... My unit was not shipped... I went and collected it personally... Wherein I did so out of concern that something might happen to it if shipped!
Can I use that teleportation machine you have sometime

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Ugh that's terrible luck Arrow. Yet another defective JVC from this release.
Yep, no matter what product you buy there will be DOA's
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post #4824 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 05:37 PM
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Well, my own experience is that the chart I posted above seems to be relatively accurate, based on what I think I see with my eyes. For example, I think I can "appreciate" 1080p on a 65" TV at 11-12 feet. I don't think I would have to get to within 6 or 7 feet to appreciate it (just extrapolating from the chart and previous comments).
I based my theater on THX viewing distance guide for 135in diagonal. I cant imagine sitting closer and be able to absorb the whole scene in my field of vision. Ill wait for NX7 and see.
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post #4825 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 06:49 PM
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My rs2000 is mounted and I powered up. I had to adjust the red one pixel to the left. I have a top end 25’ BJC hdmi cable but with 3’ extension on each end to strain relief the stiff cable. The old JVC 1080p has no issues but it just won’t sync with the RS2000. Having to install an HDBaseT balun with the shielded cat6 cable I had for backup. Will install that tonight.

But so far the geometry and color uniformity looks good... via menus and plugging and Apple TV directly to the projector.
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post #4826 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Assuming you're talking about a big screen (we've been talking about a 135" diagonal) that's shocking to me, and I don't believe it. But I suppose I might be educated when I get my NX7 in a few days (or weeks or months).

So it also seems that when people are extolling the resolution and "sharpness" of the native 4k units on these threads, that this might be baloney? I mean, it seems to me that a lot of these folks are talking about watching normal content from reasonable viewing distances, not standing three feet from their screens and looking at test patterns. At least that's how I interpreted a number of comments from the "average enthusiasts" who have received projectors thus far.
I've previously posted on this thread that there is a definite difference between UHD Blu-Ray material as well as the QBF UHD pattern when displayed on my previous professionally calibrated, fully focused RS500 (using e-shift4) versus my NX7. The QBF difference was staggering and easily visible from 13' on my 110" 16x9 screen. Although I'll agree that it's not as noticeable in the overwhelming amount of movie playback, the most glaring difference was in the scene from "Lucy" where she's shown in close up on the TV screen when talking with Morgan Freeman in his Paris hotel room. The (purposeful) horizontal raster lines across the hotel's TV screen were solid and thin with the NX7 versus thick and slightly stair stepped on the RS500, especially across the mirror which is in the background in Lucy's room. This wasn't "pixel peeping", but a real world difference in my HT at a screen size & viewing distance where Markmon1 (and others) have suggested that there was no video resolution benefit to the native 4K panels.
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post #4827 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 07:35 PM
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Is there anyone here that is using an NX9 with madvr?
If so I want to start trying my madvr "pixel sharder tone mapping" since its fully dynamic and doesnt need any metadata to work well.
However I dont know what "target peak nits" to set in madvr tone mapping, can someone offer support please?

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CinemascopE Home Cinema Build & 2014 rebuild, plus new LED ceiling install Christmas 2018
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post #4828 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 07:37 PM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

I got my first RS2000 today. I ordered multiple RS2000 and RS3000 and was told they were all ready for delivery but I refused to take all of them at one time, due to the number of issues I have read about.

So I asked for one RS2000 to ship and if it tested ok, then they could ship another and so on. But I don’t want to be sitting on $50k worth of bad projectors, waiting for exchanges.

So good news, the first RS2000 I received seems to be in great condition. Convergence seems to be spot on out of the box. I don’t have any weird color issue along the bottom and I don’t hear any noise from the DI.

I only got to spend about an hour playing with it this evening but it seems to be a perfect sample. The image is really fantastic. I bought this as a replacement for my aging RS600 in my master bedroom which is paired with a 120” diagonal 16:9 screen.

My main theater has a Sony 5000ES on a 17’ wide screen. I setup the RS2000 temporarily in my theater to test the unit, but so far it looks to be a keeper.

The big question will be if the RS3000 is significantly better than the RS2000 for the price difference. Looking forward to comparing the 2 units.

I’m currently more inclined to keep the RS2000 as a replacement for my RS600 since it’s not my main theater, but I find myself actually watching my bedroom projector more on a daily basis than I do my theater projector. I don’t want to feel like I’m stepping down in quality from my RS600, but just from the quick viewing tonight, the RS2000 didn’t disappoint.













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post #4829 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 07:46 PM
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Sorry but I do have to say that people are jumping off a bridge without the full picture I think. I am pretty sure looking at serial numbers there are at least 200+ of these out there all ready. So far we know of three major issues on a brand new platform. Gosh even if it is 2-4% DOA that is pretty good for a new platform. Let’s not talk about the new Dennon’s a few years back or many others.

Let’s see if this is a systemic issue or an isolated issue. Hopefully JVC will not pull a Sony and not even admitt there is a problem.
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Home Theater: JVC NX7, Stewart 120" 2:35 StudioTech 130, Panamorph DCR Lens, B&W 802 Nautilus, HTM1, 4-B&W 805's for surround, 4-Martin Logan 22's ceiling speakers ATMOS, 2- 18" Velodyn Subs, Marantz 8802A, MacIntosh 8207 AMP and Proceed AMP 5, Oppo 203, Panasonic 820, Apple TV, XBox One
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post #4830 of 13983 Old 02-07-2019, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docrog View Post
I've previously posted on this thread that there is a definite difference between UHD Blu-Ray material as well as the QBF UHD pattern when displayed on my previous professionally calibrated, fully focused RS500 (using e-shift4) versus my NX7. The QBF difference was staggering and easily visible from 13' on my 110" 16x9 screen. Although I'll agree that it's not as noticeable in the overwhelming amount of movie playback, the most glaring difference was in the scene from "Lucy" where she's shown in close up on the TV screen when talking with Morgan Freeman in his Paris hotel room. The (purposeful) horizontal raster lines across the hotel's TV screen were solid and thin with the NX7 versus thick and slightly stair stepped on the RS500, especially across the mirror which is in the background in Lucy's room. This wasn't "pixel peeping", but a real world difference in my HT at a screen size & viewing distance where Markmon1 (and others) have suggested that there was no video resolution benefit to the native 4K panels.
Thanks docrog, I remember reading your posts in this regard and I've been following your comments on your experience with your new projector with great interest. And, FWIW, I believe you.
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