Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 183 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5461 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
It will not be set for full panel width, out of the box. If it was, then it would be the wrong setting for anyone using a 16:9 screen.
Doesn't answer my question fully...so which one would you choose for a scope screen? A B C?

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post #5462 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
What is the mode on the jvc that crops the top and bottom instead of the sides? Is there a mode that allows you to not crop either since the test pattern can display the entire 17:9 image.
The test pattern can display the entire image because the test pattern is itself 17:9. There is, however, no consumer content created at that aspect ratio. The standard for DVDs, Blurays, UHD, and all major streaming services is 16:9. Even when watching 2.35:1 or another wide aspect ratio (some Netflix shows are 2.0:1, for example) it is still a 16:9 image, just with the top and bottom of the image filled with black.

Because of this you will always either have black bars on the side or you will be cropping the top and bottom of the source image. The setting which controls this is called "Aspect" in the menu.

If you set Aspect to "Auto" it will make sure the entire 16:9 source image is displayed but it will then have black bars on the sides. This setting gives you 1:1 pixel mapping with no scaling (for each pixel in the source 16:9 image, there is one physical pixel used on the 17:9 panel) so it's preferable in circumstances where you might be able to observe minor scaling artifacts such as video games.

If you set it to "Zoom" then it will use the full panel but then part of the 16:9 source will be cropped from the top and bottom. This involves scaling because you are now projecting a 3840-pixel image using the full 4096-pixel width of the panel. It may introduce scaling artifacts though it's likely they would only be noticeable on test patterns and not in actual content. The benefit of using this mode is that you'll get the extra light back which was previously being "thrown away" on the black bars on the side but you would typically only use this on wider aspect ratio content because of the cropping at the top and bottom.

In all cases, once you have decided which mode you want to use for your content you would then zoom the lens to fit the projected image of your content to your screen. Once you get everything right, save it to a lens memory ("installation mode") so you can get back to that setup quickly.
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post #5463 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 09:54 AM
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I've been investigating the gradient banding / macroblocking issue I've been seeing from the AppleTV 4K on my RS2000 and it seems the cause is when in HDR mode. The HTPC doesn't trigger the HDR mode whereas the AppleTV does. So that's why I see the gradient banding on the ATV 4K and not on the HTPC. If I watch the same content on the HTPC it looks better than on the ATV 4K which seems odd to me. See the image attachments below... you can see the input info overlaid for both in the images. My Samsung 4K HDR display with ATV4K is closer to the HTPC as this Macroblocking is in the source compression but just overly emphasized on the JVC. Thoughts?



The source clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpjphQQnNV8&t=24s


What are you using to play the YouTube clip on the Apple TV?


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post #5464 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 09:57 AM
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What are you using to play the YouTube clip on the Apple TV?
Chrome on Windows 7 (I still use MCE ) and YouTube App on ATV.
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post #5465 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post
Chrome on Windows 7 (I still use MCE ) and YouTube App on ATV.


YouTube app on Apple TV doesn’t support 4K or HDR.


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post #5466 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
YouTube app on Apple TV doesn’t support 4K or HDR.
But the Apple TV changes the picture mode to HDR because its setup as HDR, so do I have to manually change the picture mode back to User 1 on the RS2000 when watching YouTube? Either way, it seems like this banding and Macroblocking is more apparent on the ATV (all sources/apps) than via my HTPC. Perhaps, I'm not understanding how we are to deal with the HDR vs SDR picture modes with these different source devices.
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post #5467 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Doesn't answer my question fully...so which one would you choose for a scope screen? A B C?
With a DCR you would choose the mode that scales to the full 17:9 panel. Should be easy to spot as it will fill the panel width and will have the correct geometry with the lens in place. Sorry I'm not an owner so I can say which one it is exactly.

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post #5468 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:14 AM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post
But the Apple TV changes the picture mode to HDR because its setup as HDR, so do I have to manually change the picture mode back to User 1 on the RS2000 when watching YouTube? Either way, it seems like this banding and Macroblocking is more apparent on the ATV (all sources/apps) than via my HTPC. Perhaps, I'm not understanding how we are to deal with the HDR vs SDR picture modes with these different source devices.


Under “Audio Video” go to “match content” and turn ON “match frame rate” and “match dynamic range”.

I keep my Apple TV defaulted to 4K SDR as I still watch more SDR shows than I do HDR. But all that really does is keep my “Apple TV GUI” in SDR. Then it automatically adjust the output to HDR or SDR based on the content and adjust the frame rate to match.

Using the YouTube app on Apple TV isn’t a way to check 4K or HDR as it supports neither.

iTunes / Netflix / Amazon Prime / Vudu all support 4K HDR and would be much better for testing.

Samsara on iTunes in 4K HDR is stunning.


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Last edited by ccool96; 02-13-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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post #5469 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
Under “Audio Video” go to “match content” and turn ON “match frame rate” and “match dynamic range”.

I keep my Apple TV defaulted to 4K SDR as I still watch more SDR shows than I do HDR. But all that really does is keep my “Apple TV GUI” in SDR. Then it automatically adjust the output to HDR or SDR based on the content and adjust the frame rate to match.

Using the YouTube app on Apple TV isn’t a way to check 4K or HDR as it supports neither.
Ah! Now it looks much, much, better! Thank you! Hope this helps someone else setting up their AppleTV 4K. I was forcing HDR on all content, thus my issues. I wasn't sure what you guys were talking about with "sync delays" -- now when it switches between SDR and HDR you can notice the delay... but rather have that than having gradient banding and all the other issues.
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post #5470 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Doesn't answer my question fully...so which one would you choose for a scope screen? A B C?


I’m pretty sure you have to have a dcr lens before you can choose one of the anamorphic modes a,b or c.


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post #5471 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
If you set Aspect to "Auto" it will make sure the entire 16:9 source image is displayed but it will then have black bars on the sides. This setting gives you 1:1 pixel mapping with no scaling (for each pixel in the source 16:9 image, there is one physical pixel used on the 17:9 panel) so it's preferable in circumstances where you might be able to observe minor scaling artifacts such as video games.
Thanks.

This is what I plan on doing when I get my JVC.

I'm limited in screen size by my throw distance, so in order to get the biggest 2.35:1 image I can get for movies, I was going to build myself a 1.9:1 screen. I plan on getting the projector mounted and then measuring the actual image size of the image on my wall and building a screen about 1 inch or so smaller (so to leave a bit of room for image alignment).

I was going to have 1 lens memory for 2.35-2.4:1 content, zooming to fill the 4096 width, and then a second lens memory for 16:9 content, I was going to try both zoom (cropping a bit off the top and bottom), and also normal 3840 width with black bars on the sides.

I use an HTPC so I can use madVR to trigger lens memories based on content source
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post #5472 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Doesn't answer my question fully...so which one would you choose for a scope screen? A B C?
If doing lens memory, I would not use any of the anamorphic functions. I would only use full panel width, if I needed the extra light output, when playing scope content. With the DCR lens, you will use full panel width.
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post #5473 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Thanks.

This is what I plan on doing when I get my JVC.

I'm limited in screen size by my throw distance, so in order to get the biggest 2.35:1 image I can get for movies, I was going to build myself a 1.9:1 screen. I plan on getting the projector mounted and then measuring the actual image size of the image on my wall and building a screen about 1 inch or so smaller (so to leave a bit of room for image alignment).

I was going to have 1 lens memory for 2.35-2.4:1 content, zooming to fill the 4096 width, and then a second lens memory for 16:9 content, I was going to try both zoom (cropping a bit off the top and bottom), and also normal 3840 width with black bars on the sides.

I use an HTPC so I can use madVR to trigger lens memories based on content source
Might consider a 2.0:1 screen. There are a lot of Netflix shows that use this AR. Minor difference, but since 1.9:1 isn't used much it will be more useful and show scope films a hair bigger.

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post #5474 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Doesn't answer my question fully...so which one would you choose for a scope screen? A B C?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
With a DCR you would choose the mode that scales to the full 17:9 panel. Should be easy to spot as it will fill the panel width and will have the correct geometry with the lens in place. Sorry I'm not an owner so I can say which one it is exactly.
A B C are all for anamorphic lens setups.

A and B are for regular anamorphic lens.

A does vertical squeeze to squeeze 16:9 into scope for better pixel fill and brightness

B scales it back to 16:9 in middle of scope screen withou having to remove lens and zoom

C is just like A, but uses full 17:9 panel for even more brightness. DCR lens made for this

D oops! JVC forgot to add lol, it should be equivalent to B but wit 17:9 panel and DCR lens. That said, B with DCR lens isn't that bad. Distortion is there, but so bad it's unwatchable


If you don't have an anamorphic lens, proper setting is "off" , not A B or C. You would instead use different lens memory with your scope screen to optimize the different aspect ratios
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post #5475 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
What is the mode on the jvc that crops the top and bottom instead of the sides?
Aspect Ratio - Zoom

Quote:
Is there a mode that allows you to not crop either since the test pattern can display the entire 17:9 image.
Aspect Ratio - Auto

BUT - Most devices (BluRay players, Roku, etc) set up the projector for 3840x2160. That means that the entire panel is NOT used., just the 16x9 portion. The sides of the panel (beyond 3840x2160) are black and are barely noticeable (if at all) even when projected on a screen that is wider than 16x9. (Note that when most devices say 4k they actually do 3840.)

With an HTPC, you can set up to use the entire panel. Although 3840x2160 will be displayed as the "Recommended Resolution", 4096x2160 will also be available.
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post #5476 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 11:01 AM
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A B C are all for anamorphic lens setups.

A and B are for regular anamorphic lens.

A does vertical squeeze to squeeze 16:9 into scope for better pixel fill and brightness

B scales it back to 16:9 in middle of scope screen withou having to remove lens and zoom

C is just like A, but uses full 17:9 panel for even more brightness. DCR lens made for this

D oops! JVC forgot to add lol, it should be equivalent to B but wit 17:9 panel and DCR lens. That said, B with DCR lens isn't that bad. Distortion is there, but so bad it's unwatchable


If you don't have an anamorphic lens, proper setting is "off" , not A B or C. You would instead use different lens memory with your scope screen to optimize the different aspect ratios
So since Don has the DCR in his sig, sounds like mode C is the answer. You have been awarded 100 Internet points
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post #5477 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 11:07 AM
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Might consider a 2.0:1 screen. There are a lot of Netflix shows that use this AR. Minor difference, but since 1.9:1 isn't used much it will be more useful and show scope films a hair bigger.
Hmm, I don't believe it can show me scope films any bigger since my 1.9:1 screen that I plan to make will literally be the full 4096x2160 sensor at full (largest) zoom size. The projector will literally not be able to project an image any wider (or taller for that matter).

And yeah, I know no content is 1.9:1, but making the screen that aspect makes sense to me IMO because it allows me the most flexibility as I can use the full JVC sensor. It means my screen will be at the projector's throw limits in both horizontal and vertical direction.

Maybe I am misunderstanding something.

Last edited by SirMaster; 02-13-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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post #5478 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 11:13 AM
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Good, so we're on the same page here.

And part of my initial post on this subject was asking if anybody with one of these projectors was *not* experiencing this yellow shift in association with enabling of the DI. I don't recall anybody saying that they *didn't* see it, and as I pointed out, if this working theory on the cause of the yellow shift is correct, it should be present on *every* unit (if looked for).

If it's not present on every unit, then we need a different theory of causation, and therefore a different fix.

I'll check some more subtitle etc, but initial check of my rs3000 itdoes NOT exhibit yellow shift. However, i was one of first to report DI in HDR mode not clamping down as much as expected in low APL content.

Don't want to bug dealer and JVC at this point until dust settles down a bit on firmware. Not proven, but seems to be firmware based on comments here and watching how my units DI works in SDR. On SDR my DI works so good just finished watching all three seasons of the expanse. I kept saying "wow," "dang" etc on all the space scenes.
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post #5479 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 11:23 AM
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Hmm, I don't believe it can show me scope films any bigger since my 1.9:1 screen that I plan to make will literally be the full 4096x2160 sensor at full (largest) zoom size, the projector will literally not be able to project any wider (or taller for that matter).

Maybe I am misunderstanding something.
That's fine; it's just a little unusual to size your screen to exactly match the projector's native panel aspect ratio. It's much more common to select a 16:9 or 2.35:1 screen that fits within it and use zoom/shift as necessary for other aspect ratios. But there's nothing wrong with what you are doing.
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post #5480 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 11:33 AM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post
A B C are all for anamorphic lens setups.



A and B are for regular anamorphic lens.



A does vertical squeeze to squeeze 16:9 into scope for better pixel fill and brightness



B scales it back to 16:9 in middle of scope screen withou having to remove lens and zoom



C is just like A, but uses full 17:9 panel for even more brightness. DCR lens made for this



D oops! JVC forgot to add lol, it should be equivalent to B but wit 17:9 panel and DCR lens. That said, B with DCR lens isn't that bad. Distortion is there, but so bad it's unwatchable





If you don't have an anamorphic lens, proper setting is "off" , not A B or C. You would instead use different lens memory with your scope screen to optimize the different aspect ratios


According to Shawn Kelley over on the DCR thread, it seems that Anamorphic mode D isn’t coming as a firmware update. This is certainly disappointing.

There it no way without a Lumagen to watch 16:9 content in the proper aspect ratio without removing the DCR lens.

The closest you can get is by using mode B, which causes the 16:9 image to be horizontally squeezed by 6%




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post #5481 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
That's fine; it's just a little unusual to size your screen to exactly match the projector's native panel aspect ratio. It's much more common to select a 16:9 or 2.35:1 screen that fits within it and use zoom/shift as necessary for other aspect ratios. But there's nothing wrong with what you are doing.
Yeah I realize that it's odd and no content is 1.9:1.

But since going to 4K I really feel like I want to maximize my 2.35:1 screen size. But I also do watch about 60% 2.35 content and 40% 16:9 content.

For reference, if I go with 16:9 screen I will get about 119" width, or a 128" diagonal 2.35 screen. If I go with 1.9:1 screen I will get about 124" width, or about 134" diagonal 2.35 screen. My seating distance is about 13ft

Here's my train of thought.

16:9 Screen
PRO
16:9 content will have no borders.
CON
2.35 content will not be as big as it could be (128")

2.35 Screen
PRO
2.35 content will be as big as possible (134") and will have no borders.
CON
16:9 content will be really small (108") with large side borders.

1.9:1 Screen
PRO
2.35 content will be as big as possible (134")
16:9 content will be as big as possible (133") (or 140" with small cropping) (equivalent of 142" if the 16:9 were not cropped)
I will get the most light output using the whole panel.
CON
Both 16:9 and 2.35 content will have black borders.

However, I do believe that I will be OK cropping my 16:9 content to 1.9:1 as IMO HDTV is already designed for some overscan. Also, I don't play video games on my projector.

For sports (which is rare) I will likely go with the small side borders rather than cropping the 16:9.


I am also however playing with the idea of building magnetic screen masking panels. I was planning on shifting the 2.35 image all the way to the bottom of the 1.9:1 screen and having a single black mask panel on top.

And for 16:9 if I am not cropping and am instead doing the bars on the sides, I may shift the image all the way to one side and have a single vertical mask panel on 1 side. This may work out since my theater is a living room and my seating isn't exactly centered. Shifting a 16:9 image to the side of a 17:9 screen at my size would only put the image a few inches off center.
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post #5482 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 11:43 AM
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If it is not on everything you view, then it has to be the source material. If it was strictly the projector, then it would be on all sources. Now, if you walk up close to the screen, you will see noise in the image.
Watching any movie that's been made in the past 5-7 years doesn't seem to have this issue. Interesting.

I'll play around with it.
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post #5483 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Hmm, I don't believe it can show me scope films any bigger since my 1.9:1 screen that I plan to make will literally be the full 4096x2160 sensor at full (largest) zoom size. The projector will literally not be able to project an image any wider (or taller for that matter).

And yeah, I know no content is 1.9:1, but making the screen that aspect makes sense to me IMO because it allows me the most flexibility as I can use the full JVC sensor. It means my screen will be at the projector's throw limits in both horizontal and vertical direction.

Maybe I am misunderstanding something.
I think there might be one IMAX sequence in that AR. If you can't zoom out any wider, then 1.9:1 is all you got. Just figured you might be able to squeeze a little bit extra width in there. Stranger Things is pretty awesome in my 2.0:1 preset

To clarify, using the full sensor isn't going to make the impact of showing a wider AR on a wider screen in this case.


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post #5484 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post
Ah! Now it looks much, much, better! Thank you! Hope this helps someone else setting up their AppleTV 4K. I was forcing HDR on all content, thus my issues. I wasn't sure what you guys were talking about with "sync delays" -- now when it switches between SDR and HDR you can notice the delay... but rather have that than having gradient banding and all the other issues.
Nothing like a quick fix and some good content to watch. So are you impressed with your unit?
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post #5485 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 01:34 PM
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Ugh, today I went to reload the init I had saved in JVC autocal as I was concerned the adjustments I had done to the color with my spyder 5 might been doing more harm than good. It got about 20% in and the projector shuts down with the lights blinking. At this point when I try and reload the init it makes it between 1 and 11% but never any farther and I get varying results on the picture. Usually all red screen or black is red or just all black.

I know someone else ran into this issue, was there a resolution or is it going to have to go back to JVC. I’m thinking if I could do a factory reset then maybe the init would apply cleanly but at this point not sure what I should do next.
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post #5486 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 01:44 PM
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I am happy to report that my replacement N7 is perfect. Convergence was spot on. No adjustment needed. DI is completely silent. Build date is January. I think the same batch as some posted above. I am a happy camper again and enjoying this magical N7 picture Firmware version is 1.19.

The only thing bothering me is that it is not exactly matching the last pjs max zoom. In max zoom mode, I still miss about 4cms on each side of my 2.40:1 screen. Just by a hair.. but not really noticable when watching movies. I guess I need to move the pj back a few inches, but its quite the job when ceiling mounted.



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Last edited by Drem; 02-13-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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post #5487 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post
Ah! Now it looks much, much, better! Thank you! Hope this helps someone else setting up their AppleTV 4K. I was forcing HDR on all content, thus my issues. I wasn't sure what you guys were talking about with "sync delays" -- now when it switches between SDR and HDR you can notice the delay... but rather have that than having gradient banding and all the other issues.
Nothing like a quick fix and some good content to watch. So are you impressed with your unit?
Very! Have over 45 hrs on it so far... made one or two steps of convergence tweaks now that it’s “broken in” and it’s perfect! JVC did a great job but i’m coming from an rs35...
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post #5488 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 02:19 PM
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Scaling

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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Stranger things is still broadcast in 3840x2160 or 1920x1080 with black bars. If you stretch to 17:9 you're scaling to an odd number to use the rest of that panel. Who knows if you'll notice but that's at least one argument for keeping things at the 16:9 setting.
Valid point. I think at most distances short of a couple of feet from the screen, any scaling artifact from scaling from 3840x2160 to 4096x2304 (cropped to 4096x2160) should be invisible with 4K, possibly with the exception of moire in fabrics, mesh/screens, etc.

I'm more worried about image burn-in than squeezing the most out of the panel.

JVC DLA-NX9 / 156" 2.4:1 CIH Seymour AT screen / Marantz AV7704 11.2 / Yamaha MX-A5000 11-ch amp
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post #5489 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 02:31 PM
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There are like a million posts and I can't find measured native contrast
Can anyone report what the rs200 / x7's native contrast is?
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post #5490 of 14198 Old 02-13-2019, 02:41 PM
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Ok, I now have firmware 1.20 ready to go... I have received it from my dealer.

Can someone fill me in what I need to do?

1. Do I copy the folder or just the files in the folder of the zip file to USB. Does the USB need to be formatted a special way?
2. Do I insert the USB prior to power up?
3. Do I initiate the firmware update via menu's or will the unit perform it automatically on power up?

Thanks in advance.

Yanki

JVC DLA-NX9 | Panasonic UB820 | Denon AVR-X6400H | Rotel RB 993 Amp | 135" 2:35:1 Elunevision Aurora NanoEdge Ambient Light Blocking Screen | Paradigm Monitor 11 v7, Monitor Center 3 v7, Monitor Surround 3 v7, CI Pro P65-R |
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