Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 191 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5701 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 08:51 AM
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There really is a fascinating dynamic on these forums anymore. I don't recall this several years past, but I may have simply lost my naivete along the way.

Several of the big players are dealers with a vested interest in minimizing the impact of product negativity. Some of this may even be subconscious. Some of the less experienced seem overly swayed by these 'big player' opinions and subsequently rush to their defense. Overall board opinions are subtly, and sometimes not so subtly affected by the information put out by these players. (Not dissimilar to news organizations subtly and sometimes not so subtly swaying public opinion.) Attempt is made to marginalize those who dissent, sometimes going as far as to refer to them as trolls. I wish that everyone, on either side, would try to maintain objectivity.

There is a very recent post explaining the absence of extensive reviews arises from only a limited number of units shipped thus far. The SAME paragraph indicates that there are really only a small number of defects thus far. (despite the limited number of units shipped thus far...)

The people I've seen describing their units, both positive and negative, seemed to be thread contributors well before receiving their projectors. It doesn't seem that people with defects are just showing up in this thread. There have been launches of new product lines many times in the recent past, without this level of product defects. This is real, although to what extent I'm not sure anyone really knows at this point. I think it is VERY possible that much (most?) of this is arising from the difficulty in shipping such a heavy and highly technical and precise electronics product.

For the record, I am still using a TruVue Vango which I purchased from AVS and still love. I am in the market for a new projector. I won't buy a Sony, because I DO believe in the panel degradation issue. The newer DLP units don't seem to do a lot for me. I AM planning on purchasing a JVC projector, which is why I keep lurking around in this thread!

Just my $0.02.
Kevin
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post #5702 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jmouse007 View Post
You are not alone in your "doubts", they apear to be valid.

Sadly, I fear that JVC may provide Arrow with "cherry picked" production units that JVC has gone over with a fine tooth comb because of the previous disasters of batting ZERO, for ZERO in two out of two different model production units.

JVC literally can't afford for Arrow to receive a third defective projector = "three strikes and you're out". Therefore, what ever Arrow reports, finds or concludes may be suspect because the projectors he receives probably won't reflect reality since guaranteed, most customers new projectors won't receive the same level of scrutiny and "quality control".


So far this roll out of JVC's highly anticipated 4K projection line has been a pr disaster. Just read through the owner posts; problem, defect free JVC 4K projectors have been the overwhelming exception to the rule. This doesn't bode well or inspire confidence in potential buyers.

Sure you have defenders and those downplaying the potential seriousness of the situation here on AVS: ("all new production units have problems, it is to be expected"...etc.) but their excuses are suspect because there's "big money" and profits at stake.

Anyway we shall see what we shall see, only time will tell. That said, a lot of potential JVC 4K buyers, like myself are going to sit this one out.
Well, I will in fact be evaluating 5 units of each and every model, total 15 units... So, ain't going to happen!


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post #5703 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
There really is a fascinating dynamic on these forums anymore. I don't recall this several years past, but I may have simply lost my naivete along the way.

Several of the big players are dealers with a vested interest in minimizing the impact of product negativity. Some of this may even be subconscious. Some of the less experienced seem overly swayed by these 'big player' opinions and subsequently rush to their defense. Overall board opinions are subtly, and sometimes not so subtly affected by the information put out by these players. (Not dissimilar to news organizations subtly and sometimes not so subtly swaying public opinion.) Attempt is made to marginalize those who dissent, sometimes going as far as to refer to them as trolls. I wish that everyone, on either side, would try to maintain objectivity.

There is a very recent post explaining the absence of extensive reviews arises from only a limited number of units shipped thus far. The SAME paragraph indicates that there are really only a small number of defects thus far. (despite the limited number of units shipped thus far...)

The people I've seen describing their units, both positive and negative, seemed to be thread contributors well before receiving their projectors. It doesn't seem that people with defects are just showing up in this thread. There have been launches of new product lines many times in the recent past, without this level of product defects. This is real, although to what extent I'm not sure anyone really knows at this point. I think it is VERY possible that much (most?) of this is arising from the difficulty in shipping such a heavy and highly technical and precise electronics product.

For the record, I am still using a TruVue Vango which I purchased from AVS and still love. I am in the market for a new projector. I won't buy a Sony, because I DO believe in the panel degradation issue. The newer DLP units don't seem to do a lot for me. I AM planning on purchasing a JVC projector, which is why I keep lurking around in this thread!

Just my $0.02.
Kevin
Don't include me in that please... I don't have any affiliation with respect to any particular brand, I am completely impartial and unbiased, and I will always shoot straight and say exactly how it is, both positives and negatives, warts and all

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post #5704 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
There really is a fascinating dynamic on these forums anymore. I don't recall this several years past, but I may have simply lost my naivete along the way.

Several of the big players are dealers with a vested interest in minimizing the impact of product negativity. Some of this may even be subconscious. Some of the less experienced seem overly swayed by these 'big player' opinions and subsequently rush to their defense. Overall board opinions are subtly, and sometimes not so subtly affected by the information put out by these players. (Not dissimilar to news organizations subtly and sometimes not so subtly swaying public opinion.) Attempt is made to marginalize those who dissent, sometimes going as far as to refer to them as trolls. I wish that everyone, on either side, would try to maintain objectivity.

There is a very recent post explaining the absence of extensive reviews arises from only a limited number of units shipped thus far. The SAME paragraph indicates that there are really only a small number of defects thus far. (despite the limited number of units shipped thus far...)

The people I've seen describing their units, both positive and negative, seemed to be thread contributors well before receiving their projectors. It doesn't seem that people with defects are just showing up in this thread. There have been launches of new product lines many times in the recent past, without this level of product defects. This is real, although to what extent I'm not sure anyone really knows at this point. I think it is VERY possible that much (most?) of this is arising from the difficulty in shipping such a heavy and highly technical and precise electronics product.

For the record, I am still using a TruVue Vango which I purchased from AVS and still love. I am in the market for a new projector. I won't buy a Sony, because I DO believe in the panel degradation issue. The newer DLP units don't seem to do a lot for me. I AM planning on purchasing a JVC projector, which is why I keep lurking around in this thread!

Just my $0.02.
Kevin
Well maybe I am less experience since I have owned projectors for 27 years with my first being a Sony CRT 3 gun costing 25K. In that 27 years I can say I have not owned a projector that did not have issues. Thank God my RS2000 that retails for 8K doesn't have the problems my 25K 3 gun had back then. These projectors are a lot of money and people want it right and so do I. I agree that people need to quit saying nothing is wrong and also these issues are the end of the world.

This is an OWNERS TREAD and there are two other threads for comparison (where people can trash projectors they have neither seen or have any experience with) and anticipation. I wish the mods would keep it that way. Owners have questions and want some help, don't need to have their purchase decision trashed. JMO

Home Theater: JVC NX7, Stewart 120" 2:35 StudioTech 130, Panamorph DCR Lens, B&W 802 Nautilus, HTM1, 4-B&W 805's for surround, 4-Martin Logan 22's ceiling speakers ATMOS, 2- 18" Velodyn Subs, Marantz 8802A, MacIntosh 8207 AMP and Proceed AMP 5, Oppo 203, Panasonic 820, Apple TV, XBox One

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post #5705 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:19 AM
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"A handful"? Read through all of the existing owners posts; the overwhelming majority of new o w n e r s posting are reporting problems and defects with their brand new projectors right out of the box.
You should correct this statement, you mean LESS THAN HALF of FORUM MEMBERS who are OWNERS are reporting problems. I would be surprised if more than 5% of current owners were members of the forum, and if I am right, that means around 2% of owners have problems. Even if I am off by 100% in my estimate, your statement is still completely false.

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If there are "hundreds" of satisfied customers as you suggest, where are all of their glowing reviews? Where are all of the glowing professional reviews?
Most consumers don't review products they buy. Usually you hear from disgruntled owners, people who like to review products, people who disagree with negative reviews, and people who are trying to help out the company by raving about the product.

For example, in the book business, I get about 1 review per 100 books sold. I don't sell projectors, but consumers in general simply don't care to speak up about products unless there is something unusual (good or bad).

High end projectors are fairly niche, and a forum like AVS is the niche users in a niche hobby, so while I can't say that the numbers in general consumer products hold up here, I would NEVER assume the voices here represent 100% of the market, or even 10% of the market for that matter.

I also trust my dealer, and if they say they have shipped hundreds in the U.S. already, then I believe it.

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At this point it seems like a "crap shoot" where customers who have shelled out up to $13,000 dollars have to "hope" that they are one of the lucky, fortune few who get one of the "good ones". And even then they don't know if in a month or two they are going to have to take their 50 pound projector down, repackage it and ship it back to JVC.
From what I see, I have about a 95% chance to get a perfect model, and Crap shoots never have that good of odds.

Sure, it is discouraging to see some issues with some users in the first couple batches. It doesn't change my mind on my purchase because worst case scenario, I have to send it back for a replacement. So far, of the 3 projectors I have owned, 2 had to go back (one bad out of the box, and one failed in the first couple months of use). And none of those were JVC. So it wouldn't be unusual to me to have to send it back, especially considering the size and weight of this unit. I just hope I am due some good luck this time around, lol.

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That said, I, along with many others here on AVS staunchly refuse to any longer be an unpaid, "early adopter" beta tester guinea pigs for a billion dollar AV company at my own expense.
Trust me, I have more stories about getting burned by new technology and being an early adopter than I could write about. Half my life has been spent fixing unready technology, arguing with manufacturers and programmers about issues they would rather deny. But the fact is, you don't speak for this AVS user, and frankly I don't see this projector as "beta" in the slightest. It is a new model, sure, but mostly contains tech that is well established. Just like I wouldn't hesitate to buy the latest gen Intel processor the first month it comes out, I didn't hesitate to buy this tech.

Furthermore, aside from freight damage and a couple cases of bad units out of the box, none of the issues I have read about this projector so far will bother me. I know that before long I will have exactly the projector I need for my situation, and I also know that unless I am spending about 20x as much, I can't expect "perfection".

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Thanks, but no thanks... been there, done that and those days are over.
I totally respect your decision to not buy this projector, but it begs the question of why you have spent so much time in the *owner's* thread trying to convince others that this is a bad choice? I don't see what you are contributing to the owners here.

I'm sure that what you have to say would fit better with people looking at all possible products to make a decision on either upgrading or buying their first projector, and this is NOT that thread. Perhaps the comparison thread would be a better soap box for you?
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post #5706 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Based on the suggestion from markmon1 and mattztt, I tested my NX7 at various ADL levels.



As you can (hopefully) see at ~10% ADL the difference in Auto and Manual starts to be negligible and at 20% there is no difference.



All pictures taken with a Canon 5D Mark III and an L lamp - so that is as good as I can take with my current gear.



Also took a video of screen going from full black to full white

FWIW my first RS3000 and replacement RS3000 behaved exactly the same so I don’t think it’s a defective unit but something universal with these new projectors. Since this is my first JVC coming from a Sony I just assumed that’s how the DI worked and was a trade off to get the inky blacks JVC is known for.

If you want to see this in movies I found the Sony intro where there is just a white Sony logo in the middle shows it well, the logo starts a little yellow and then transitions to white as zooms in and the DI gets bigger.

Honestly it’s not a deal breaker for me as it doesn’t happen often in movies but would be nice if they could fix it in firmware.
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post #5707 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post

The people I've seen describing their units, both positive and negative, seemed to be thread contributors well before receiving their projectors. It doesn't seem that people with defects are just showing up in this thread. There have been launches of new product lines many times in the recent past, without this level of product defects. This is real, although to what extent I'm not sure anyone really knows at this point. I think it is VERY possible that much (most?) of this is arising from the difficulty in shipping such a heavy and highly technical and precise electronics product.
That is the real problem, we would need to know how many units where shipped and how many are defective. Not only people here in the forum, but everyone worldwide.
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post #5708 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:35 AM
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This is what happens with delivery of packages:

This is what happened with mine, after I am clearly screaming as soon as I saw the truck that dont drag it out and dont try to lift it by yourself.

I am so depressed I havent turned it on since I spoke to Mike and probably wont use it until I get the replacement.

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post #5709 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:37 AM
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@wookii
I think, my listing misses noisy fans.
I don't have statistics. It feels definitly more than 6 units.
Maybe all those reports combined with 5 months open end waiting time for my NX9 make me lose my objectivity.
Hey Karl, just heard rs1000,2000 arrived in Germany. We will have to wait until March for Rs3000.
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post #5710 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
There really is a fascinating dynamic on these forums anymore. I don't recall this several years past, but I may have simply lost my naivete along the way.

Several of the big players are dealers with a vested interest in minimizing the impact of product negativity. Some of this may even be subconscious. Some of the less experienced seem overly swayed by these 'big player' opinions and subsequently rush to their defense. Overall board opinions are subtly, and sometimes not so subtly affected by the information put out by these players. (Not dissimilar to news organizations subtly and sometimes not so subtly swaying public opinion.) Attempt is made to marginalize those who dissent, sometimes going as far as to refer to them as trolls. I wish that everyone, on either side, would try to maintain objectivity.

There is a very recent post explaining the absence of extensive reviews arises from only a limited number of units shipped thus far. The SAME paragraph indicates that there are really only a small number of defects thus far. (despite the limited number of units shipped thus far...)

The people I've seen describing their units, both positive and negative, seemed to be thread contributors well before receiving their projectors. It doesn't seem that people with defects are just showing up in this thread. There have been launches of new product lines many times in the recent past, without this level of product defects. This is real, although to what extent I'm not sure anyone really knows at this point. I think it is VERY possible that much (most?) of this is arising from the difficulty in shipping such a heavy and highly technical and precise electronics product.

For the record, I am still using a TruVue Vango which I purchased from AVS and still love. I am in the market for a new projector. I won't buy a Sony, because I DO believe in the panel degradation issue. The newer DLP units don't seem to do a lot for me. I AM planning on purchasing a JVC projector, which is why I keep lurking around in this thread!

Just my $0.02.
Kevin
The best policy is to be patient and let it get sorted out.

We went through the same thing with the 400/500/600 models. None of them worked with video games because of latency issues, and HDR dropped them into a Gamma D mode that threw a terrible picture. CMD issues, too.

When the 420/520/620 models were released several months later, most of that was resolved. Latency was fixed, Gamma D was gone altogether, and all that was left was a CMD banding issues with some material. I don't use CMD, so I jumped on it, and absolutely LOVE my projector.

These projectors will get sorted out as well, either in later builds of this model, or their inevitable predecessors.

You can either wait, or grab you a model from the last series, which is outstanding. All depends on how important native 4K is to you versus e-shift 4K.
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post #5711 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by aniv View Post
This is what happened with mine, after I am clearly screaming as soon as I saw the truck that dont drag it out and dont try to lift it by yourself.

I am so depressed I havent turned it on since I spoke to Mike and probably wont use it until I get the replacement.

https://youtu.be/_gEycEfUACM
As gruesome as that is to watch, can you imagine how many times most of these boxes get dropped in some fashion during shipping that we DON'T see?

In my opinion, these should be able to withstand a common drop like that, or they don't need to be shipped in the first place.
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post #5712 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Well maybe I am less experience since I have owned projectors for 27 years with my first being a Sony CRT 3 gun costing 25K.
I've not been in the game quite that long, but I blame that on youth....!!!

Started with a Sony VPL W400Q. Moved quickly to a Sony VPH1251Q 3 gun CRT. Heavy as crap, but fun! I seem to remember doing an "astigmatism" mod to that thing to get even focus across the screen. Those were the days....!

Still on the fence about one of these new JVCs vs. an RS540 while waiting for a bit less expensive laser (or a bit brighter LED)

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post #5713 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dkersten View Post
You should correct this statement, you mean LESS THAN HALF of FORUM MEMBERS who are OWNERS are reporting problems. I would be surprised if more than 5% of current owners were members of the forum, and if I am right, that means around 2% of owners have problems. Even if I am off by 100% in my estimate, your statement is still completely false.
So you're assuming only forum members have problems with their new projectors?

I would suggest that the percentage is the same both inside and outside of this forum.

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post #5714 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
As gruesome as that is to watch, can you imagine how many times most of these boxes get dropped in some fashion during shipping that we DON'T see?

In my opinion, these should be able to withstand a common drop like that, or they don't need to be shipped in the first place.
No I totally understand, but it hurts more when you see it yourself. This was double boxed with plenty of peanuts etc yet the exterior box was ripped with peanuts in the delivery truck.

One edge of the product box where it dropped was pushed in the corner, although the styrofoam was still intact. It gave me some relief that the styrofoam was not broken but when I turned the projector over to get it ceiling mounted I could hear something move inside.

I think freight on a pallet would be more secure but then you have the horror stories of forklifts being driven into freight packages. You can never win.

I am considering driving to NY to pick it up but I cant do a straight shot anymore like I used to, age has taken its toll and i can do maybe 14-15 hours straight and then need a break before I can drive again.
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post #5715 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:51 AM
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Hey Karl, just heard rs1000,2000 arrived in Germany. We will have to wait until March for Rs3000.
I've read a post in a forum that JVC Germany expects units to be arriving mid March and the backorder to be fulfilled succesively. Well then: Happy Easter!

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post #5716 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:55 AM
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So you're assuming only forum members have problems with their new projectors?

I would suggest that the percentage is the same both inside and outside of this forum.
You are right, even my suggested correction is not correct.

However, without data none of us have, it is impossible to say whether users outside the forum are experiencing the same percentages of issues. All we know is that a little less than half the owners who have posted here have issues. We also know that the number of U.S. owners who have posted here make up a relatively small percentage of overall owners (per statements shared by JVC dealers here). In any case, stating that most owners have issues is completely false, and he has zero data to back that up.
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post #5717 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
There really is a fascinating dynamic on these forums anymore. I don't recall this several years past, but I may have simply lost my naivete along the way.

Several of the big players are dealers with a vested interest in minimizing the impact of product negativity. Some of this may even be subconscious. Some of the less experienced seem overly swayed by these 'big player' opinions and subsequently rush to their defense. Overall board opinions are subtly, and sometimes not so subtly affected by the information put out by these players. (Not dissimilar to news organizations subtly and sometimes not so subtly swaying public opinion.) Attempt is made to marginalize those who dissent, sometimes going as far as to refer to them as trolls. I wish that everyone, on either side, would try to maintain objectivity.
I agree there is an interesting dynamic, but it goes beyond your impression that big players are trying to minimize problems. There is a distinct negative bias that is causing NON-owners to chime in to warn others away parroting actual owners' real issues. The "defense" you may be referring to is people (like me) trying to say, whoa, let's not just yell "fire," let's look at this objectively.

I'm ordering my RS3000 and will TRY to return to post my experience, but I'll be really honest: if I have a problem, I will post; if I don't, I will probably be too busy enjoying my projector and my 1 year old son to come back. #realtalk
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post #5718 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:01 AM
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I think freight on a pallet would be more secure but then you have the horror stories of forklifts being driven into freight packages. You can never win.
I'm still a firm believer in freight. I've had several high dollar and oversized items delivered over the past year for a new home and the stuff that arrived freight was nearly all in perfect condition with the exception of one minor ding on the back of a refrigerator which likely occurred at the factory given the lack of damage to the packaging. The stuff that was delivered UPS and FedEx was all over the map - some was perfect in perfect boxes, some was fine even in smashed boxes, but multiple items were damaged including one item that was completely destroyed despite impeccable packaging. The guys that unloaded the freight deliveries were always careful and courteous and were patient with me giving everything a careful inspection before they left.

I don't have any doubt that freight is the way to go and if I wasn't such anxious to just get my projector in my hands I would likely have requested it be shipped on a pallet and been willing to pay extra for that. I gambled that it would make it intact *despite* the UPS handling and that worst case I would have to wait for a replacement unit.
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post #5719 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by aniv View Post
This is what happened with mine, after I am clearly screaming as soon as I saw the truck that dont drag it out and dont try to lift it by yourself.

I am so depressed I havent turned it on since I spoke to Mike and probably wont use it until I get the replacement.

https://youtu.be/_gEycEfUACM
Surprisingly it still throws a good image. Just making a slight noise in high lamp. Go ahead and use. Look at it as free lamp hours.
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post #5720 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Surprisingly it still throws a good image. Just making a slight noise in high lamp. Go ahead and use. Look at it as free lamp hours.
Yeah image is perfect and I cant notice the noise at reference volumes but if I set it to 60% volume which is the max I can do at night when I watch UHD/HDR discs and want high lamp its a deal breaker during dialogue scenes.

My OCD is to blame for it and I am cursing UPS. I have basically slept in almost 12 hours last night so I dont have to think about it and next week I have to go visit a very sick family member so I wont have to go near the projector until I get back in town lol.
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post #5721 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:10 AM
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I've seen computers arrive with cracked motherboards, cpu sockets ripped from the motherboard, ram popped out of the sockets, and much more due to shipping abuse. It takes some pretty big bumps to do that kind of damage...

This is why you insure your freight and don't ever assume it will show up undamaged. Thankfully I am personal friends with my UPS guy and I know that the last few miles will be handled like a newborn baby. The trip in between, on the other hand, is where things can go south. My odds are good though, and it isn't really a gamble because if it arrives damaged I will just get a replacement. That is the benefit of working with a good dealer and buying from a company that has good policies and stands by them.
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post #5722 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I'm still pretty sure there is no yellow problem.


How can you be pretty sure no problem exist if you don’t have one of the new units?

I have 2 RS2000s side by side with my RS600. There is definitely a problem.

Yes my RS600 will turn whites to slight yellowish, but it’s far far far less noticeable. I think this has to do with the fact that the DI on the RS600 is far more aggressive than it is on the RS2000.

JVC has specially told Mike Garrett they are aware of the issue! So if there wasn’t an issue, seems like they would say so.






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post #5723 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
JVC has never been known to stick their customers and service has always been good.
Back in the day they refused to live up to what they agreed to in writing regarding my over 15k projector. They agreed to X (in writing) only later to state they wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
In that 27 years I can say I have not owned a projector that did not have issues.
My take is the defective rate is probably very close to any other year. There is simply more focus/attention based on native 4k "finally" being available.

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post #5724 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniv View Post
This is what happened with mine, after I am clearly screaming as soon as I saw the truck that dont drag it out and dont try to lift it by yourself.

I am so depressed I havent turned it on since I spoke to Mike and probably wont use it until I get the replacement. <img src="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" class="inlineimg" />

https://youtu.be/_gEycEfUACM
Surprisingly it still throws a good image. Just making a slight noise in high lamp. Go ahead and use. Look at it as free lamp hours. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Talking with the JVC service tech he mentioned that he has had multiple units returned that had fallen off the ceiling mounts. Outside of cosmetic damage the worked just fine.

Now I don’t condone how delivery services take care of some of there deliveries but ultimately they need to be given better tools to do their jobs. These shipments are not light and I have no idea what tools these employees have at their disposal to transport them.

The projector I just received from JVC was a box inside a box but no extra packaging. There was no mention on the outside of this box how heavy it was or if it was even fragile. This could make it very easy for someone to grab the box and then find out it’s too heavy for them ultimately dropping it and causing damage.
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post #5725 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Based on the suggestion from markmon1 and mattztt, I tested my NX7 at various ADL levels.



As you can (hopefully) see at ~10% ADL the difference in Auto and Manual starts to be negligible and at 20% there is no difference.



All pictures taken with a Canon 5D Mark III and an L lamp - so that is as good as I can take with my current gear.



Also took a video of screen going from full black to full white (Iris fully clamped to fully open) that show how dramatic the Yellowing of the Auto Iris is. Video was shot on iPhone XS.



https://1drv.ms/v/s!AlvdMbnqRAsKgaxlHNGfIi1Mrt50aw







Thanks for the link to the patterns. Would have been a pain to create them myself :-)


Great post. And just to clarify, this is an issue and JVC has acknowledged they are aware of it. I don’t think JVC would report that they are aware of this specific “issue” if it was working as expected. I would expect them to say, this is NOT an issue.

Speaking as someone who owns an RS600, the RS600 does something similar, but it’s far far far less severe and noticeable.

I believe JVC will be able to issue a firmware update to slightly tweak the gamma adjustments, to help fix the problem. It might not completely disappear, but it shouldn’t be this apparent.




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post #5726 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmouse007 View Post
"What's in it for JVC?"

You answered your own question: they've spent M I L L I O N S OF DOLLARS in development and production.
Again, try to think it through, not with your lens of "JVC = evil corporation," but with an objective lens of "these are real people" - people who have feelings and care about at least their own and their shareholders' interests. Pretend you're the president of JVC. You've spent millions on development, do you want to spend a little more and get it right, or ship known bad units and lose millions chasing and replacing bad units?

The fact they stopped production when they discovered a bad component is actual evidence JVC is NOT trying to do the very thing you're accusing them of: shipping known bad projectors. You suspect bad intentions simply because they didn't specify WHICH component? Maybe they didn't want to damage a long-standing relationship with a component supplier who screwed up, maybe it was their own screw-up, BUT WHO CARES? They fixed it and resumed production.

Quote:
Now your "many have lost all reason", "conspiracy theory" accusation falls flat on its face when you assume that JVC would repair, buy back or replace all of the projectors if it is a defective projector run/line.

The AVS forums are littered with thousands of customer complaints and reports of AV companies sticking them with defective production products with known issues that have never been resolved.
Again, you presume they WON'T fix defective units? Did ANYONE post they have issues and JVC WON'T replace or repair? No.

You destroy your own credibility when you state ridiculous things like "the overwhelming majority" report problems. WHAT? Even if half the posts are negative, we ALL KNOW every problem gets reported but most happy users ain't got time for AVS Forum.

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post #5727 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
Talking with the JVC service tech he mentioned that he has had multiple units returned that had fallen off the ceiling mounts. Outside of cosmetic damage the worked just fine.

Now I don’t condone how delivery services take care of some of there deliveries but ultimately they need to be given better tools to do their jobs. These shipments are not light and I have no idea what tools these employees have at their disposal to transport them.

The projector I just received from JVC was a box inside a box but no extra packaging. There was no mention on the outside of this box how heavy it was or if it was even fragile. This could make it very easy for someone to grab the box and then find out it’s too heavy for them ultimately dropping it and causing damage.
They are supposed to have a 2 wheel dolly in the truck for oversized packages clearly marked high value $ claim and fragile. Anyhow I am speculating that it happened due to the drop but it could have happened anywhere like others said.

The only thing I would change from the current dealer packaging is changing the single-ply outer box to double-ply and keep everything else the same. It does add around 3-4 lb to weight and around $6 to the box material cost but its definitely more sturdy. I sell and ship super fragile items (maybe around 4000-5000 packages a year) and have had only 1 claim in the last 4 yrs.
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post #5728 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:27 AM
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For those who are thinking of buying, don't let the posts here about "overwhelming number of issues" influence you.

These new JVC 4K projectors are heads and shoulders above most projectors on the market including the Sony 295 & 695. The pictures they throw are outstanding. Deep blacks, high contrast, brilliant color, very bright with an almost 3D quality with good content. The new HDR auto tone mapping is a necessity not a luxury. It works better than I could have hoped.

Most all of the issues being reported are either from pixel peeping or are normal show stoppers like dust blobs in the internal optics and a panel dislodged and out of alignment. In other words, even with most of these issues the projector still throw a great picture and can be enjoyed until a permanent fix is found for the pixel peeping issues.

Even if you do get a lemon, JVC has been incredible about replacement service. They call you up, arrange shipment of the new projector to your home, a delivery guy comes out with a double boxed unit on a palette. You get a return shipment label with the replacement projector. You take the replacement out. Put the errant projector back in the shipping box. Call the delivery service for pickup. Basically anytime you put on the lamp watching the old projector is free lamp time.

Personally, I think all the issues have been hyped because of the fact that JVC delayed shipment of all the projectors due to some sort of production problem. Now, people are worried about every little thing. Obviously, the issues are real but all projectors have these minor issues and occasional showstoppers. A good portion of the problems may well be caused by shipping.

Go read the Sony 295 thread. There is a pretty hefty ratio of poor uniformity, lens issues, dust blobs, alignment issues to good review posts. It happens with almost every new release of a projector.
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post #5729 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
For those who are thinking of buying, don't let the posts here about "overwhelming number of issues" influence you.

These new JVC 4K projectors are heads and shoulders above most projectors on the market including the Sony 295 & 695. The pictures they throw are outstanding. Deep blacks, high contrast, brilliant color, very bright with an almost 3D quality with good content. The new HDR auto tone mapping is a necessity not a luxury. It works better than I could have hoped.

Most all of the issues being reported are either from pixel peeping or are normal show stoppers like dust blobs in the internal optics and a panel dislodged and out of alignment. In other words, even with most of these issues the projector still throw a great picture and can be enjoyed until a permanent fix is found for the pixel peeping issues.

Even if you do get a lemon, JVC has been incredible about replacement service. They call you up, arrange shipment of the new projector to your home, a delivery guy comes out with a double boxed unit on a palette. You get a return shipment label with the replacement projector. You take the replacement out. Put the errant projector back in the shipping box. Call the delivery service for pickup. Basically anytime you put on the lamp watching the old projector is free lamp time.

Personally, I think all the issues have been hyped because of the fact that JVC delayed shipment of all the projectors due to some sort of production problem. Now, people are worried about every little thing. Obviously, the issues are real but all projectors have these minor issues and occasional showstoppers. A good portion of the problems may well be caused by shipping.

Go read the Sony 295 thread. There is a pretty hefty ratio of poor uniformity, lens issues, dust blobs, alignment issues to good review posts. It happens with almost every new release of a projector.
So glad JVC seems to be doing the right thing.
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post #5730 of 14124 Old 02-15-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
Great post. And just to clarify, this is an issue and JVC has acknowledged they are aware of it. I don’t think JVC would report that they are aware of this specific “issue” if it was working as expected. I would expect them to say, this is NOT an issue.
Just to play devils advocate for a moment, in customer support/QA world "we're aware of the issue" can merely mean that they aware that a customer has reported an issue even if the ultimate "resolution" ends up being "working as designed." It's not necessarily being acknowledged as a defect, but it's also not (yet at least) a denial of a defect.

I can see how with this feature at some point something has to give. As you cut total light output by closing the iris you're going to need to boost the content brightness to compensate for that. When the content is 100% white to begin with you can't do that unless you've got some headroom available and any headroom you do have is not likely going to be equally distributed between all three colors and driving beyond the limit of any one of them is then going to bias the color. A small amount of 100% white on a black background is a torture test for DI - a low ADL prompting heavy use of DI combined with content with little headroom available with which to compensate.

It's encouraging that some people say the effect is less severe on other projectors, giving me some hope that it can be improved on mine.
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