Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 200 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5971 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 12:22 AM
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Film grain

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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
From what I’ve seen on here RPO is REALLY grainy - hence why I notice it more.
You should see some older films; Blade Runner, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and Unforgiven. Unforgiven is particularly grainy. I turned down the sharpness on my 4K LCD TV, but it still looks pretty objectionable. I anticipate it looking better on the JVC when it arrives, as it shouldn't artificially enhance the grain. I do expect the film grain to still be there, as that's how it was shot.
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post #5972 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigq View Post
Mind sharing your settings in MadVR, I’ve been using MadmeasureHDR to get the proper measurements but I’ve been unable to get better results in MadVR than just sending the HDR meta data to the JVC and letting it do the autotone mapping. I’m sure it’s just a setup issue on the MadVR side though.
Not here as it's off topic and settings are changing daily with experimental test builds, but I plan to add some detailed info on HDR playback and calibration settings with madVR in the new JVC 2019 calibration thread (or I'll link there when I do if I create a dedicated thread) once a public build with all the recent improvements has been released.
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post #5973 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidahn View Post
Thanks, I was planning on using a Plex alternative like MrMC or Kodi.

My preferred platform is ATV 4K with Infuse Pro which is awesome, but Apple doesn't support Atmos passthrough for your media, only on content you buy/rent from iTunes or stream from Netflix/Amazon Prime. So I'm stuck using Shield TV for now (possibly forever).
With these absolutely terrible limitations, why would your favorite platform be apple tv? With those limitations, I'd be completely out on apple tv.
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post #5974 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post
[*]Convergence - I had to adjust Blue color by 2H 1V and Red by 1H to get close enough convergence where white and yellow grid looked solid. I still have Blue vertical line offset on the far left, while the rest of the vertical lines are fine. What does that say about my particular projector, why is convergence not uniform? Several people who got same batch as mine posted that they either got perfect convergence out of the box or had to do max of 1 click adjustment.
Most projectors *do not* have perfect convergence. Even my RS4500 does not have perfect convergence. If you can adjust it via pixel grid using the full pixel adjust and solve it, that's perfect. If you can avoid using zone or fine adjust you should. Those methods can introduce some color artifacts when viewing a black and white pixel pattern. However, you also may never see those artifacts in real content. Also, blue convergence being off is far less noticeable than red being off.

I'd try to adjust the convergence the way you did using only pixel. Then go to your main seating position and see if you can notice any problems with it. If not, be done. If you do notice from your seat and it bugs you, you can try the zone alignment and dial it in perfectly. You can also create a lens memory for zone aligned and not zone aligned and switch between the two with one button.

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Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post
[*]I imagine that I have to use specific area adjustment if I want to get rid of Blue offset at far left. Are there any cons with doing area adjustments vs whole?
As said above, artifacts on black and white pixel level patterns. Probably not on real world content. I have a zone alignment and non-zone alignment memory preset on my RS4500. I prefer the zone alignment when using PC desktop. I found I end up leaving it on that setting most the time and really don't notice a difference in video content.

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Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post
[*]Should I expect convergence shift over time?
No, but there could be some shift the first few days as your projector acclimates to your room. You should also make sure the projector is warmed up 45 minutes before making final focus and convergence adjustments.

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Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post
[*]While focusing lens, I noticed that letters in label "Focus" have a green pixels on the left side. That's after convergence adjustments. I have to stand right next to screen to see that. Is that normal?
Things like this are somewhat normal and in short, anything that requires standing next to the screen to see, I wouldn't be worried about. Honestly if you stand at your screen and try to watch something, you'll see just how terrible everything looks - including the video quality, itself

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Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post
[*]I discovered Zoom feature that allows scope content to fill entire horizontal chip area. Does anyone plan to run their JVC like that full time? I didn't notice any scaling artifacts, which I expected since image and pixel ratio is no longer 1:1. If I run my JVC in Zoom mode, I can get 120" 16:9 screen and get the biggest possible scope view possible. The only drawback I see is that I will have black top and bottom bars for Scope and 16:9. What do you guys recommend?
I'm not sure what you gain here. If you zoom to the 16:9 point on your 16:9 screen, your scope content would be exactly the same size on your screen but your 16x9 content would fill the entire screen with no black bars. And you'd not be breaking the 1:1 pixel width of the content. Or is the zoom you're describing something different.
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post #5975 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
So far, I like the JVC doing the tone mapping over the 820.
If you set the 820 for HDR2020 output and use the HDR Optimizer with a projector setting as display you are using the 820 tone mapping. It is tone mapping everything down to 500 nits and then sending this new meta data of 500nits to the JVC. My guess is the JVC is then doing some of the work using the new 500 nit meta data. So actually both are tone mapping with the 820 doing the first part and the JVC cleaning up with the second.
The Panasonic 9000 adds another 350 nit base projector setting in addition to the 500 one.
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post #5976 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by desray2k View Post
In what aspect it is better than the Panny? Care to elaborate? Thks.


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Nothing scientific, or measured. It feels like the image has more punch and looks better.
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post #5977 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidahn View Post
You should see some older films; Blade Runner, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and Unforgiven. Unforgiven is particularly grainy. I turned down the sharpness on my 4K LCD TV, but it still looks pretty objectionable. I anticipate it looking better on the JVC when it arrives, as it shouldn't artificially enhance the grain. I do expect the film grain to still be there, as that's how it was shot.


I thought about that. I’ll check out the original BR today. I watched Prometheus last night, and a few shots were REALLY noisy. Others looked absent of grain and amazing.
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post #5978 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
If you set the 820 for HDR2020 output and use the HDR Optimizer with a projector setting as display you are using the 820 tone mapping. It is tone mapping everything down to 500 nits and then sending this new meta data of 500nits to the JVC. My guess is the JVC is then doing some of the work using the new 500 nit meta data. So actually both are tone mapping with the 820 doing the first part and the JVC cleaning up with the second.

The Panasonic 9000 adds another 350 nit base projector setting in addition to the 500 one.


Fair point. So I like them both working then?

I haven’t tried setting the 820’s optimizer off. I’ll try that and see how it goes.
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post #5979 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Fair point. So I like them both working then?

I haven’t tried setting the 820’s optimizer off. I’ll try that and see how it goes.
Turning the optimizer off will let you see what the JVC is doing with the tone mapping. Also selecting a display type such as the one you had earlier(super LED) will set a 1500 nit level that will mean the 820 is only tone mapping to that level and highlights from 500-1500 will be blown out. It will also appear brighter.
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post #5980 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post
  1. I discovered Zoom feature that allows scope content to fill entire horizontal chip area. Does anyone plan to run their JVC like that full time? I didn't notice any scaling artifacts, which I expected since image and pixel ratio is no longer 1:1. If I run my JVC in Zoom mode, I can get 120" 16:9 screen and get the biggest possible scope view possible. The only drawback I see is that I will have black top and bottom bars for Scope and 16:9. What do you guys recommend?

Thanks!
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And you are right, the slight stretching does not create and noticeable scaling artifacts from what I saw on an NX9 demo and from someone who owns an NX7 and uses the stretch.
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I'm not sure what you gain here. If you zoom to the 16:9 point on your 16:9 screen, your scope content would be exactly the same size on your screen but your 16x9 content would fill the entire screen with no black bars. And you'd not be breaking the 1:1 pixel width of the content. Or is the zoom you're describing something different.
When you choose the 'Zoom' option in the Aspect Ratio menu (which is different from using the 'zoom' Lens function to make the overall image larger and smaller):

The image is scaled (*not* 'stretched') to fill the 4096 pixel width of the chip. To maintain the proper Aspect Ratio for the content, there is slight cropping of the upper and lower part of the image. You do lose the 1:1 pixel mapping (most reports I've read indicate no visible downside to this), but there is no stretching of the picture.

So if you're watching 16:9 content, on a 16:9 screen, with Zoom enabled in the menu (which results in 17:9 Aspect Ratio output), there will be narrow bars on the top and bottom, since 16:9 and 17:9 are different aspect ratios, with 17:9 slightly wider and narrower than 16:9.

And if you're watching 2.35:1 content, on a 16:9 screen, there will still be black bars top and bottom as expected (since 2.35:1 is obviously much wider than 16:9), but because of the scaling, they will be slightly narrower than they would have been without the 'Zoom' menu choice.

What you gain with the 'Zoom' menu option, is a bump in brightness, since the entire chip is being used to produce the image, the full 4096 pixel width, and not just the 3840 pixel width.
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post #5981 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 05:12 AM
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Quick Brown Fox

I had a few forum members over to my house yesterday, and we had an opportunity to look over the Quick Brown Fox picture with the NX9. We took photos of the image, and I would appreciate people's input about them. Does anyone see any issues with how these photos looks, or do they look as fantastic as we think they do?
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post #5982 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post
Another shot out for RS1000! Got one over weekend, thanks Mike!

I only had about an hour playing with projector and have several questions that I hope other owners of the new projectors can chime in.




  1. Convergence - I had to adjust Blue color by 2H 1V and Red by 1H to get close enough convergence where white and yellow grid looked solid. I still have Blue vertical line offset on the far left, while the rest of the vertical lines are fine. What does that say about my particular projector, why is convergence not uniform? Several people who got same batch as mine posted that they either got perfect convergence out of the box or had to do max of 1 click adjustment.
  2. I imagine that I have to use specific area adjustment if I want to get rid of Blue offset at far left. Are there any cons with doing area adjustments vs whole?
  3. Should I expect convergence shift over time?
  4. While focusing lens, I noticed that letters in label "Focus" have a green pixels on the left side. That's after convergence adjustments. I have to stand right next to screen to see that. Is that normal?
  5. I discovered Zoom feature that allows scope content to fill entire horizontal chip area. Does anyone plan to run their JVC like that full time? I didn't notice any scaling artifacts, which I expected since image and pixel ratio is no longer 1:1. If I run my JVC in Zoom mode, I can get 120" 16:9 screen and get the biggest possible scope view possible. The only drawback I see is that I will have black top and bottom bars for Scope and 16:9. What do you guys recommend?



Thanks!


I have two Lens settings for my 130 inch 16x9 screen. One for Scope or less than 16x9 content where I use the Zoom aspect so I use the entire chip and get the added brightness of the 17:9 panel. And another setting for 16x9 which is Lens zoomed to fill my 16:9 screen and selecting Native or Auto in the Zoom function, so there is no cropping of viewable content.



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post #5983 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidahn View Post
Thanks, I was planning on using a Plex alternative like MrMC or Kodi.

My preferred platform is ATV 4K with Infuse Pro which is awesome, but Apple doesn't support Atmos passthrough for your media, only on content you buy/rent from iTunes or stream from Netflix/Amazon Prime. So I'm stuck using Shield TV for now (possibly forever).
One weird thing I have noticed with the Shield and Kodi - when playing SDR it is sending a SMPTE 170M color space to the projector - this does not look good so I have been using a Vero 4k for SDR and it appropriately uses BT709. I am not sure why this is happening but if I turned off auto-colorimetry switching then the shield sends BT2020 for everything which looks washed out for SDR.
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post #5984 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
Turning the optimizer off will let you see what the JVC is doing with the tone mapping. Also selecting a display type such as the one you had earlier(super LED) will set a 1500 nit level that will mean the 820 is only tone mapping to that level and highlights from 500-1500 will be blown out. It will also appear brighter.


Got it. So the projector setting would be better then?
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post #5985 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
One weird thing I have noticed with the Shield and Kodi - when playing SDR it is sending a SMPTE 170M color space to the projector - this does not look good so I have been using a Vero 4k for SDR and it appropriately uses BT709. I am not sure why this is happening but if I turned off auto-colorimetry switching then the shield sends BT2020 for everything which looks washed out for SDR.
Another option would be to use “SDR2020” on the projector.
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post #5986 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
One weird thing I have noticed with the Shield and Kodi - when playing SDR it is sending a SMPTE 170M color space to the projector - this does not look good so I have been using a Vero 4k for SDR and it appropriately uses BT709. I am not sure why this is happening but if I turned off auto-colorimetry switching then the shield sends BT2020 for everything which looks washed out for SDR.


Happened to me a few times. Force shutting the Kodi app and restarting Shield fixed it. Colorimetry is On.


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post #5987 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by riddle View Post
i cant found it :-) plz can you post the link?


thank you
See post 5937.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57617156
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post #5988 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post
Anybody know what happened to zombie?
He is waiting on his projector. Should get it this week.
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post #5989 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post
Another shot out for RS1000! Got one over weekend, thanks Mike!
I only had about an hour playing with projector and have several questions that I hope other owners of the new projectors can chime in.

  1. Convergence - I had to adjust Blue color by 2H 1V and Red by 1H to get close enough convergence where white and yellow grid looked solid. I still have Blue vertical line offset on the far left, while the rest of the vertical lines are fine. What does that say about my particular projector, why is convergence not uniform? Several people who got same batch as mine posted that they either got perfect convergence out of the box or had to do max of 1 click adjustment.
  2. I imagine that I have to use specific area adjustment if I want to get rid of Blue offset at far left. Are there any cons with doing area adjustments vs whole?
  3. Should I expect convergence shift over time?
  4. While focusing lens, I noticed that letters in label "Focus" have a green pixels on the left side. That's after convergence adjustments. I have to stand right next to screen to see that. Is that normal?
  5. I discovered Zoom feature that allows scope content to fill entire horizontal chip area. Does anyone plan to run their JVC like that full time? I didn't notice any scaling artifacts, which I expected since image and pixel ratio is no longer 1:1. If I run my JVC in Zoom mode, I can get 120" 16:9 screen and get the biggest possible scope view possible. The only drawback I see is that I will have black top and bottom bars for Scope and 16:9. What do you guys recommend?

Thanks!
I would never worry about blue. You will never see an issue with blue convergence off, but I would still converge. Make sure projector is warmed up30 to 40 minutes, before touching convergence.
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post #5990 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
I had a few forum members over to my house yesterday, and we had an opportunity to look over the Quick Brown Fox picture with the NX9. We took photos of the image, and I would appreciate people's input about them. Does anyone see any issues with how these photos looks, or do they look as fantastic as we think they do?
Look very good. Enjoy your projector.
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post #5991 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
You may feel different if you saw some madVR upscaling. It’s nothing like the projectors upscaler. High quality 1080p content upscaled with madVR has scenes that look good and others that look super 4k. I think it’s the first time I considered upscaling actually worth while.
I will have to check that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
I had a few forum members over to my house yesterday, and we had an opportunity to look over the Quick Brown Fox picture with the NX9. We took photos of the image, and I would appreciate people's input about them. Does anyone see any issues with how these photos looks, or do they look as fantastic as we think they do?
You selling your NX9 already?
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post #5992 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
He is waiting on his projector. Should get it this week.
So this is a replacement? He last posted that he received his unit last week. Looking forward to his review.
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post #5993 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Look very good. Enjoy your projector.
Thanks Mike! I was very pleased to see that my nx9 handles the pattern discussed by so many so well

For sale: 4 Mackie c300z speakers, Sony HW40es projector, Tag Mclaren av32r preamplifier
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post #5994 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

You selling your NX9 already?
Yes. The nx9 is the best projector I have ever seen, but the timing worked out that I took delivery of the nx9 right after I sold my prized Seaton Speakers and put a down payment on jbl m2's.

I have expensive taste, but not unlimited funds , as the jbl speakers I am now after are approximately double the cost of my Seaton gear, and I want to do 11.1.8 (meaning I need to fund 19 expensive speakers).
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For sale: 4 Mackie c300z speakers, Sony HW40es projector, Tag Mclaren av32r preamplifier

Last edited by pennynike1; 02-18-2019 at 09:13 AM.
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post #5995 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
Yes. The nx9 best projector I have ever seen, but the timing worked out that I took delivery of the nx9 right after I sold my prized Seaton Speakers and put a down payment on jbl m2's.

I have expensive taste, but not unlimited funds , as the jbl speakers I am now after are approximately double the cost of my Seaton gear, and I want to do 11.1.8 (meaning I need to fund 19 expensive speakers).
Now that’s what I call a Dolby Atmos setup!
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post #5996 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post
So this is a replacement? He last posted that he received his unit last week. Looking forward to his review.
Looks like UPS was hard on it.
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post #5997 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
I have 1080 material Im upscaling to 4K with madvr and on my NX9 often looks way better than some of my HDR titles.
Watching Blu-rays upscaled by my previous Panasonic UB900 and now the UB820 frequently surprises me on how good it looks. Pan's Labyrinth is a movie I thought I would want to see re-released on 4K - until I watched the Blu-ray again on my RS4500 with a DCR lens. I was surprised at how good it looked, and I'm not sure it would look better remastered or not. I have a lot of titles like that.
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post #5998 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
I thought about that. I’ll check out the original BR today. I watched Prometheus last night, and a few shots were REALLY noisy. Others looked absent of grain and amazing.
Prometheus was shot on a RED Epic 3D setup. I would guess the noisy shots were the darker scenes where they used higher ISO. I thought maybe they added film grain in post, but apparently not. This reviewer says the film is grain free and "clean" (end of 3rd paragraph):

https://www.avforums.com/review/prom...ay-review.4823

So I'm guessing it's simply noise from amplifying the sensor signal. I don't have my NX9 yet, but just check for your sharpness setting (MPC Enhance mode).

JVC DLA-NX9 / 156" 2.4:1 CIH Seymour AT screen / Marantz AV7704 11.2 / Yamaha MX-A5000 11-ch amp
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post #5999 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
So far, I like the JVC doing the tone mapping over the 820.
It would be really nice for someone who has one of these new JVC models, who also has been using MadVR, to comment on how JVC’s auto tone maping compares to MadVr’s tone mapping for HDR.
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post #6000 of 14124 Old 02-18-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
It would be really nice for someone who has one of these new JVC models, who also has been using MadVR, to comment on how JVC’s auto tone maping compares to MadVr’s tone mapping for HDR.
I've seen JVC tonemapping vs madVR tone mapping on a 156" wide screen with an NX9.

The JVC isn't bad by any means, but it's dimmer than madVR can do, because madVR can tonemap down to a lower target nits much more effectively (better, smarter curve).

Also the JVC will not do as well on movies with missing or incorrect HDR metadata, where as madVR can handle them fine, or at least will be able to handle them even better soon with the next major release which will include a bunch of dynamic HDR stuff through a new live tone-mapping algorithm.
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Last edited by SirMaster; 02-18-2019 at 10:43 AM.
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