Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 202 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6031 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
What about a lumagen?
Lumagen doesn't have frame analysis and real time adjusting of the tone mapping in a dolby vision manner like madVR. Still not as good.

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post #6032 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Lumagen doesn't have frame analysis and real time adjusting of the tone mapping in a dolby vision manner like madVR. Still not as good.
Not yet. They are working on it.
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post #6033 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Can someone explain the proper way to adjust convergence after the projector warms up for 30 minutes to an hour? What should I look for? It's "whole" screen - correct? I have about 20 hours on the lamp so far.
Fire up the projector, wait 40 minutes, go to the menu where you adjust convergence and select "adjust pixel" and move the red and blue so that the center of the screen has perfect white lines. Hope the edges are good, too. If not, you can test by sitting in your seating position and if they still look white and you cant tell from there, call it good. If not, you may consider whether or not you want to back out of that pixel adjust menu and use zone convergence.

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post #6034 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Gotcha. So mine would be 7.2.4 because my AVM60 has two sub outs, correct?
Nope, it is 7.1.4. While it has dual sub output, it is sending the same .1 signal. Technically even most of the AVR manufacturers list them wrong. Calling an AVR 11.2, because it has two subwoofer outputs.
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post #6035 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
I had a few forum members over to my house yesterday, and we had an opportunity to look over the Quick Brown Fox picture with the NX9. We took photos of the image, and I would appreciate people's input about them. Does anyone see any issues with how these photos looks, or do they look as fantastic as we think they do?
@Javs , I know you have seen this QBF pattern quite a lot. From your comments in this thread, I feel you might be our resident expert on it. What are your feelings on the QBF of my NX9 in the quoted pics? Thanks in advance for your anticipated response

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post #6036 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Lumagen doesn't have frame analysis and real time adjusting of the tone mapping in a dolby vision manner like madVR. Still not as good.
Madvr has dynamic tone mapping, but that is still beta as far as I understand it. As others have indicated, I believe Lumagen has this in the works as well. A stand alone device is preferable to me vs. Using a htpc, but that is just personal preference.
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post #6037 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:52 PM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Anthem lists it as an 11.2 processor.


Yes but you can't manage the two channels separately. The processor treats both subs as a single system. You can't specify distance or levels or cut off or phase of the two subs independently. So for all practical purposes or is a 7.1.4 system.

Unless I am missing something on my MRX720 to manege the two subs independently. :-)
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post #6038 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
This is the part that's confusing me. The image is scaled not stretched, so the aspect doesnt change. If your screen is 16:9 and you scale to 16:9 res, then you reduce the image position so that the overflow for 17:9 is off the sides of the screen. I think we agree. Then if you want to go full panel you reduce the overall image so that the 17:9 image width fits the 16:9 screen. I think we agree here, too. When you display a 16:9 image on that, the top and bottom will show up as bars because the panel is not capable of displaying the full image. So some of the image is cut off. In this case 17:9 panel gives 16:9 with black bars on top and bottom because the panel cant display those.
I think we're saying the same things here. So first, for 16:9 content:

With a 16:9 screen, and using the 'Auto' aspect ratio (meaning 3840x2160 pixels): When you say "reduce the image position" if you mean you use lens zoom so that the content portion of the full 3840x2169 pixels of the chip, Aspect Ratio 16:9, fills the screen, then yes. When you do this, the unused sides of the chip (4096-3840 = 256, so 128 pixel wide bar on each side) are projecting black bars, which go into the screen frame.

With a 16:9 screen, and using the 'Zoom' aspect ratio (meaning 4096x2160 pixels), the original 3840x2160 pixels of the content gets scaled up to 4096x2304 pixels. Since the chip only has 2160 pixels, then 144 pixels (2304 - 2160 = 144) are cropped off, 72 pixels on the top, 72 pixels on the bottom. The resulting 4096x2160 output from the full chip is 17:9 (or about 1.9:1). You would have to adjust the lens zoom to fit this image to the full width of the screen, and since the screen's aspect ratio is 16:9, and the content is 17:9, there are narrow bars on the top and bottom.

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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Ok on 2.35:1 image when you go 16:9 scaling, the width of the screen is filled and the top is black bars for the remainder of the aspect.
If you scale to 17:9 then you reduce the image to fit your screen. The width fits and the black bars on top are the same since you are scaling not zooming.

You do gain ~100 lumens in brightness but its likely not to be noticeable.
Ok, let me work through this, with the math (and let me use 2.40:1, as that's what I've been working with for Anamorphic lenses, but it should still be close for 2.35:1):

If you have a 2.40:1 source, the actual content is 3840x1600, with the upper and lower black bars 280 pixels tall each (2160 - 1600 = 560, divided by 2 is 280). This is with the 'Auto' aspect ratio.

If you take that 3840x1600 source, and choose 'Zoom' in aspect ratio, it gets scaled up to 4096x1707 (slight rounding error). Since you still have the original 2160 pixel height, and the content now occupies 1707 pixels, you now have narrower bands (2160 - 1707 = 453, divided by 2 is about 227). The aspect ratio is unchanged, you have full use of the chip's width, and 27 more pixel rows vertically (480 - 453 = 27). The pixels you've 'lost' on the top and bottom were black anyway, so there is no content loss. And some improved light output, which actually worked out to more than I might have thought; hadn't done these calculations before:

Auto Aspect Ratio: 3840 x 1600 = 6,144,000 pixels in use
Zoom Aspect Ratio: 4096 x 1707 = 6,991,872 pixels in use
Difference is 847,872 more pixels in use. Divided that by the original 6,144,000 pixels, and you get about 13.8% more pixels active in displaying content, when choosing 'Zoom' over 'Auto'.


Well, that's a lot more than you were asking for, but once I got started, I couldn't help myself!!!

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post #6039 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
I think we're saying the same things here. So first, for 16:9 content:

With a 16:9 screen, and using the 'Auto' aspect ratio (meaning 3840x2160 pixels): When you say "reduce the image position" if you mean you use lens zoom so that the content portion of the full 3840x2169 pixels of the chip, Aspect Ratio 16:9, fills the screen, then yes. When you do this, the unused sides of the chip (4096-3840 = 256, so 128 pixel wide bar on each side) are projecting black bars, which go into the screen frame.

With a 16:9 screen, and using the 'Zoom' aspect ratio (meaning 4096x2160 pixels), the original 3840x2160 pixels of the content gets scaled up to 4096x2304 pixels. Since the chip only has 2160 pixels, then 144 pixels (2304 - 2160 = 144) are cropped off, 72 pixels on the top, 72 pixels on the bottom. The resulting 4096x2160 output from the full chip is 17:9 (or about 1.9:1). You would have to adjust the lens zoom to fit this image to the full width of the screen, and since the screen's aspect ratio is 16:9, and the content is 17:9, there are narrow bars on the top and bottom.



Ok, let me work through this, with the math (and let me use 2.40:1, as that's what I've been working with for Anamorphic lenses, but it should still be close for 2.35:1):

If you have a 2.40:1 source, the actual content is 3840x1600, with the upper and lower black bars 280 pixels tall each (2160 - 1600 = 560, divided by 2 is 280). This is with the 'Auto' aspect ratio.

If you take that 3840x1600 source, and choose 'Zoom' in aspect ratio, it gets scaled up to 4096x1707 (slight rounding error). Since you still have the original 2160 pixel height, and the content now occupies 1707 pixels, you now have narrower bands (2160 - 1707 = 453, divided by 2 is about 227). The aspect ratio is unchanged, you have full use of the chip's width, and 27 more pixel rows vertically (480 - 453 = 27). The pixels you've 'lost' on the top and bottom were black anyway, so there is no content loss. And some improved light output, which actually worked out to more than I might have thought; hadn't done these calculations before:

Auto Aspect Ratio: 3840 x 1600 = 6,144,000 pixels in use
Zoom Aspect Ratio: 4096 x 1707 = 6,991,872 pixels in use
Difference is 847,872 more pixels in use. Divided that by the original 6,144,000 pixels, and you get about 13.8% more pixels active in displaying content, when choosing 'Zoom' over 'Auto'.


Well, that's a lot more than you were asking for, but once I got started, I couldn't help myself!!!

Don
Ok we agree then. You're using more of the panel but not using more of the screen surface on the 2.4:1 movie.
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post #6040 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Didnt Manni already comment on that? It's not even close between madVR and JVC auto tone mapping. Nothing comes close to madVR
Not that I could find. He did say he would eventually compare them, but that it was not a priority for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Its not even the same universe.

@RapalloAV Just got it going finally on his NX9, he sent me a glowing email, but if he wants to repeat some of it here I will let him.
Is that your observation first hand? And if so, can you clarify? E.G. where the JVC falls short.

Thanks
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post #6041 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Fire up the projector, wait 40 minutes, go to the menu where you adjust convergence and select "adjust pixel" and move the red and blue so that the center of the screen has perfect white lines. Hope the edges are good, too. If not, you can test by sitting in your seating position and if they still look white and you cant tell from there, call it good. If not, you may consider whether or not you want to back out of that pixel adjust menu and use zone convergence.


Got it. Thank you sir!
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post #6042 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Using various things to check this - it appears to be a projector thing. I’ve tried Anamorphic A/B/C - and nothing I can do will change the fact there is a somewhat border there.

Zoom makes no difference.

These pictures were all taken with the DCR lens off. What is that? Anyone know?

First picture is in RPO. Second is the lens adjust menu. Third is 820 menu.







Can anyone comment on this? Does your RS1000/2000/3000 behave the same? Maybe they’re not “bars” but there’s something there.
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post #6043 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Its not even the same universe.

@RapalloAV Just got it going finally on his NX9, he sent me a glowing email, but if he wants to repeat some of it here I will let him.
Yes thanks to Javs who helped me get the new madvr dynamic tone mapping working, I’m over the moon with the results!

I have been using madvr for years now with all my past JVCs, I recently moved up from the X9900 to the NX9.

The auto tone mapping on the NX9 is good, I could never get HDR looking good on any of my past JVCs so I gave up.
I was happy with JVCs new tone mapping for about a week, then I kept hearing how good it was with the “new” test builds on madvr, so I needed to enquire further…
Javs helped me, and unless you know and understand HDR this stuff its very complicated, plus the updates are changing almost daily with the beta tone mapping.

I think I’m now on version 51 and its “out of this world” and that’s not a lie!
As it changes and measures every frame on the fly, the image is always good, even on a fadeout you see the nits on the stats go down to zero, so the image is BLACK, real BLACK.
I have so much light in LOW lamp on my rather large curved 145” wide Studio Tek micro perf screen. Low lamp was impossible with the NX9 auto tone mapping.
The auto tone mapping on the NX9 is turned off and my fade outs go straight to black with DI auto 2.

Yes this is truly something amazing, I’m so happy to have spectacular results finally with HDR using madvr dynamic tone mapping.

I’m no expert on this so please don’t ask me questions how does it do this and that, I just can’t explain those details as I don’t know sorry…
Others on this thread are experts and there are other threads to go to for help, that’s the best place to start.
But be warned, using madvr isn’t for the faint hearted, you need time to learn it, it’s not something you can have up and running over night.
I have spent hours, weeks, months and years perfecting settings, playing test material over and over again experimenting.
My settings won’t be the same as the settings you may need, there are just too many variables….
But if you can put in the time slowly learning it and understanding it, the rewards certainly outweigh the time spent in learning.

Who else here is using the new madvr tone mapping with one of the new JVC NX models?

For those that want to go on the journey this is a good place to start. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...tpc-madvr.html

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post #6044 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Yes but you can't manage the two channels separately. The processor treats both subs as a single system. You can't specify distance or levels or cut off or phase of the two subs independently. So for all practical purposes or is a 7.1.4 system.

Unless I am missing something on my MRX720 to manege the two subs independently. :-)
A lot of AVR's let you set distance for each of the two subs and adjust level independently, but it is still just a single .1 channel.
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post #6045 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 02:32 PM
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A lot of AVR's let you set distance for each of the two subs and adjust level independently, but it is still just a single .1 channel.
Yes, the LFE channel is still a single channel, but as in my case where I have the two subs setup as left and right they are two separate channels when reproducing the lower frequencies from the other 'small' speakers. So, I'd still call that 7.2.4 in my case.

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post #6046 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 02:40 PM
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post #6047 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bwillcox View Post
Yes, the LFE channel is still a single channel, but as in my case where I have the two subs setup as left and right they are two separate channels when reproducing the lower frequencies from the other 'small' speakers. So, I'd still call that 7.2.4 in my case.
If you are using a crossover to add subs to the left and right speakers, then you are just converting your speakers from 2-way to 3-way or from 3-way to 4-way. So 7 lower level speakers with subs added to the mains, two subwoofers on LFE channel and four atmos speakers would still be listed as 7.1.4.

Added
Years ago, I tried adding subs to all of my speakers plus a sub for the LFE. I ran the speakers full range. Still a 5.1 system.
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post #6048 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 02:54 PM
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Can anyone comment on this? Does your RS1000/2000/3000 behave the same? Maybe they’re not “bars” but there’s something there.
I don't know why you haven't get a response from anyone else but that extra green bar on all sides is not normal. I have no idea what is causing it but that is not suppose to be there. At least it is not on any projector that I have owned.

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post #6049 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 03:00 PM
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I don't know why you haven't get a response from anyone else but that extra green bar on all sides is not normal. I have no idea what is causing it but that is not suppose to be there. At least it is not on any projector that I have owned.
Well that's a bit unsettling. LOL. You can see it, right? I'm not crazy - right?

On all four sides, or the two sides that are there? It appears to be a little bit rounded at the corners.

Can anyone else check their setup and see what's what?
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post #6050 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 03:19 PM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

@Mike Garrett : Did you hear anything from JVC about yellow DI? I ask because I haven't heard anything from JVC USA except that it has been excavated to Japan.

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post #6051 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Well that's a bit unsettling. LOL. You can see it, right? I'm not crazy - right?

On all four sides, or the two sides that are there? It appears to be a little bit rounded at the corners.

Can anyone else check their setup and see what's what?
Of course I can see it. I'm not blind That should be a bit visible when projecting 16:9 content but not when projecting the pattern grid as the pattern grid covers the whole 4096 x 2160 panel. In my projector is barely visible even when projecting 16:9 content zoomed in.
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Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | 92" Stewart ST100 | Sony VW295ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |
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post #6052 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Of course I can see it. I'm not blind That should be a bit visible when projecting 16:9 content but not when projecting the pattern grid as the pattern grid covers the whole 4096 x 2160 panel. In my projector is barely visible even when projecting 16:9 content zoomed in.
Got it, glad I'm not crazy! Yeah - mine is much larger than yours. Hmmmmm. I'll snap some more pics in various states and see what's what.

Mike - you see anything weird here?
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post #6053 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
If you are using a crossover to add subs to the left and right speakers, then you are just converting your speakers from 2-way to 3-way or from 3-way to 4-way. So 7 lower level speakers with subs added to the mains, two subwoofers on LFE channel and four atmos speakers would still be listed as 7.1.4.

Added
Years ago, I tried adding subs to all of my speakers plus a sub for the LFE. I ran the speakers full range. Still a 5.1 system.
I have this setup in my original theater room that I now use for sports room and 16:9 movies. I have and additional subwoofer connected to my LF/C/RF speakers and I run them full range in addition to my 12" LFE .1 subwoofer. It really works nicely for my 6.1 setup. The problem is that not all subs have this ability if they only have a RCA input for the .1 LFE channel.

Theater Room - JVC RS2000, Dalite 148" Scope, Pioneer SC-65, Panasonic UB820, Energy APS 5+2(2), Energy AC 300(1), Energy CR-3(4), PSA 15"Sub(2)
Sports Room - JVC RS4810, Dalite 106" 16:9, Onkyo TX-SR875, Oppo BDP-103, Energy C-7(2) w/Energy S8.2(2), Energy C-C3(1) w/Energy S10.2(1), Energy CR-3(3), Energy S12.3
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post #6054 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Can anyone comment on this? Does your RS1000/2000/3000 behave the same? Maybe they’re not “bars” but there’s something there.
Are you looking at the 17:9 panel showing a 16:9 image? What size image are you shooting?
What lamp setting?
What iris setting?
What throw?
Is this on your V6 screen?
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post #6055 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
As it changes and measures every frame on the fly, the image is always good, even on a fadeout you see the nits on the stats go down to zero, so the image is BLACK, real BLACK. The auto tone mapping on the NX9 is turned off and my fade outs go straight to black with DI auto 2.
For those of us who don't have this processing capability, I wonder if you could tell us what specific movie timestamp you're referring to where you're able to obtain zero nits. I'd like to check that sequence on my tone mapped NX7 for comparison. Thanks.
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post #6056 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 03:59 PM
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Yes thanks to Javs who helped me get the new madvr dynamic tone mapping working, I’m over the moon with the results!

I think I’m now on version 51 and its “out of this world” and that’s not a lie!
As it changes and measures every frame on the fly, the image is always good, even on a fadeout you see the nits on the stats go down to zero, so the image is BLACK, real BLACK.
I have so much light in LOW lamp on my rather large curved 145” wide Studio Tek micro perf screen. Low lamp was impossible with the NX9 auto tone mapping.
The auto tone mapping on the NX9 is turned off and my fade outs go straight to black with DI auto 2.

Yes this is truly something amazing, I’m so happy to have spectacular results finally with HDR using madvr dynamic tone mapping.
That's great to hear! I'm super excited to learn about MadVR just in time for my NX9! I'm encouraged to hear you have higher brightness (I'm guessing average scene) at low lamp at 145". That gives me hope about my 156" at high lamp (I only have 1.0 gain, though).

Questions:

1. Do you worry the increased average scene brightness will go against the directors' intentions for dark scenes? (Though I feel like there are WAY too many dimly lit scenes in TV and movies... WHY?!?)

2. Does that also mean less headroom for the bright/glare spots?

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post #6057 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docrog View Post
For those of us who don't have this processing capability, I wonder if you could tell us what specific movie timestamp you're referring to where you're able to obtain zero nits. I'd like to check that sequence on my tone mapped NX7 for comparison. Thanks.
Any fade out does it. Logos at the start of a film, Lucy anything will show zero nits with madvr.

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post #6058 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by davidahn View Post
That's great to hear! I'm super excited to learn about MadVR just in time for my NX9! I'm encouraged to hear you have higher brightness (I'm guessing average scene) at low lamp at 145". That gives me hope about my 156" at high lamp (I only have 1.0 gain, though).

Questions:

1. Do you worry the increased average scene brightness will go against the directors' intentions for dark scenes? (Though I feel like there are WAY too many dimly lit scenes in TV and movies... WHY?!?)

2. Does that also mean less headroom for the bright/glare spots?
You will have a really dark image on high lamp on your NX9 only for HDR using the auto tone mapping with a screen 156" gain 1. The only way to get a bright enough image for HDR contaent on a screen that large would be to use madvr. This has nothing to do with directors intent or putting on sun glasses for HDR, its about getting aceptable results for HDR...

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CinemascopE Home Cinema Build & 2014 rebuild, plus new LED ceiling install Christmas 2018
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post #6059 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 04:10 PM
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Holy crap! I was really talking about the PJ; but I checked the 820 manual and it turns out it has a sharpness enhancement setting. Check that too. I was not aware of source devices that do any image processing other than upscaling, but here it is. And if the player is sharpening, then the PJ is sharpening, that could cause some film grain issues!


So I checked the projector, and it has some settings. Moving them around didn’t do anything to the picture that I could tell.

I’ll look at the 820 settings tonight. We might be on the something!
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post #6060 of 13968 Old 02-18-2019, 04:14 PM
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Just checking in - got my RS2000 this morning. Thanks to Chris from Cleveland AV for double boxing it. I was pleasantly surprised that the package came in good shape from UPS after seeing all the horror stories here. Sheesh, this thing is a beast, I was definitely not expecting the sheer mammoth size of it.

I let the projector warm up for about an hour on my desk before setting up zoom and checking convergence. Everything is pretty close to perfect, had to fine adjust red down a smidge (not whole pixel). QBF pattern checks out perfectly. Looks like this is a keeper and am confident I will not have to take it down so next step is to mount it up.

Quick question for markmon or anyone else using MadVR - are you also playing 4k BluRays through the HTPC or are you using another standalone device (ie UB820).
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