Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 205 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6121 of 12892 Old 02-18-2019, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
I think another key point wold be maximize what projectors can do as well.


I’m in the FOMO camp on that one. Wanna make sure I’m not missing something. I’m here to learn also.
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post #6122 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
We used to use a 4:1 or so ratio with custom curves on the old units, which means for a 100 nit scene it would be 25 nits, and a 6 nit scene would be only 1.5 nits. Well not anymore.
That's why I never did my custom curve the traditional way. It was simply too dark and distorting everything compared to a reference monitor.
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post #6123 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
SDR BT2020 is tone mapping. That's also what the Panasonic if and Oppo does. Along with Lumagen I believe.

When you use madvr tone mapping it actually needs your display to be in gamma 2.2 mode.
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Originally Posted by mavromatis View Post
So if you use madvr tone mapping we need to use gamma 2.2 instead of 2.4?
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
You have to tell madvr which gamma you are using. But the tone mapping algorithms are based on a 2.2 working space so it's best to use that.

You could set it to 2.4 in the on the pj and madvr but it will probably not look different.
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
I thought that gamma 2.2 was only if you were using a 3d lut and not pixel shaders?
Just to clarify, madVR pixel shader tonemapping *doesn’t* need the display to be set to a 2.2 gamma.

The display can be set to anything. If what you set it to is accurately calibrated to what you tell madVR it is in the calibration tab ("this display is already calibrate to"), it shoudn’t make any difference. If you use a 3D LUT, the LUT *target* has to be 2.2 but the display itself can still be set to anything.

Let me explain.

If you don’t use a 3D LUT, set your display to any gamma you like. For example, if you need it to be set to 2.4 so that your SDR WCG calibration is also compatible with the output of a player (Oppo, Pana) outputting 2.4, then it’s absolutely fine to tell madVR that your display is already calibrated and tell it to which gamma/gamut.

It will convert to PQ though, which is absolute, so whether you set your display to 2.0, 2.2, 2.4 or 2.6, the result, provided the display actually tracks what you are telling madVR, should be exactly the same.

If you select (and calibrate the display) to 2.2, it won’t look like 2.2, it will look like PQ.

If you select (and calibrate the display) to 2.4, it won’t look like 2.4, it will look like PQ.

This is because madVR’s pixel shader tonemapping converts to PQ gamma.

Now of course if you lie to madVR and tell it a display tracks a gamma it doesn’t, the results will be different, but they will also be inaccurate.

So simply tell madVR what the gamma closest to the actual gamma tracked by the display is, so that madVR’s output is closest to PQ.

If you do use a 3D LUT, you can also set the display to whatever you like, and it doesn’t have to be accurate as any inaccuracy will be delt with by the LUT.

But you *have* to give the LUT a target of 2.2, because that’s what madVR expects internally. This won’t look like 2.2 in a dedicated room (washed out vs 2.4 or higher) because the madVR’s output will, again, be PQ.

I’ve explained this in the JVC calibration thread for 2019 models in a short note to madVR users in my recommended settings a few days ago, and I’ll post there recommended settings for madVR playback and calibration after a public build is released, as at the moment the settings for tonemapping are changing daily. Make sure you follow the 2019 calibration thread if you want any updates.
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JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders

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post #6124 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 03:52 AM
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Anyone in the woodlands/Houston or surrounding area with the new projectors? If so, who are going to use to calibrate the new projector? I used Jeff to calibrate my 620. I can do this again but he lives out of state. Thanks

I have an RS2000.


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post #6125 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Except madVR only runs on Windows and through DirectX on a relatively powerful nVidia or AMD GPU. How would you put that in a projector? Even a console like a Playstation isn't allowed to use DirectX because it's completely controlled by Microsoft. Now if madVR was written to run on OpenGL then maybe we would have something.
The madVR connection from HTPC to receiver/AVR, is this done with an HDMI cable or Cat 6/7?
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post #6126 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Renerator View Post
The madVR connection from HTPC to receiver/AVR, is this done with an HDMI cable or Cat 6/7?


HDMI out from your GPU yes.
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post #6127 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 05:10 AM
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Is there any reason as to why Dolby Vision is not supported by the new projectors? I assume that HDR10+ will be supported?

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post #6128 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 06:05 AM
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MadVR

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HDMI out from your GPU yes.
Thank you SIR!
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post #6129 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Except madVR only runs on Windows and through DirectX on a relatively powerful nVidia or AMD GPU. How would you put that in a projector? Even a console like a Playstation isn't allowed to use DirectX because it's completely controlled by Microsoft. Now if madVR was written to run on OpenGL then maybe we would have something.
Maybe that's the next step. They could also probably pack it into a independent case and sell it.
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post #6130 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
To not use DirectX madshi would have to completely rewrite madVR and how do you know he knows as much about OpenGL for instance? He’s heavily utilizing The DirectX framework to handle the complex processing.

I mean anything is technically possible, but yeah it would be quite a different functioning system and a rework of all the code to remove DirectX from the equation.

Also, if it was just for doing tone mapping you don’t really need anything near a 1080Ti. My laptop's 65W GTX 1060 max-q has no problems with the latest builds and dynamic tone-mapping with all the trade quality for performance options unchecked. Though of course it would be nice to have some of the other features built into a display as well.
On this note - I am planning to build a HTPC for MadVR - would a Nvidia 2060 be enough? Or am I better off with a 1070?

Also is a CoffeLake i5 (8400) processor recommended or could I get away with i3 (8100), or do i need an i7 (8700)

Finally is 8GB RAM enough for MadVR only (I will not PC game) or do I really need 16GB

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post #6131 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
On this note - I am planning to build a HTPC for MadVR - would a Nvidia 2060 be enough? Or am I better off with a 1070?

Also is a CoffeLake i5 (8400) processor recommended or could I get away with i3 (8100), or do i need an i7 (8700)

Finally is 8GB RAM enough for MadVR only (I will not PC game) or do I really need 16GB
There's a whole thread on this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...tpc-madvr.html

The first post is regularly updated and contains minimum/recommended hardware guidelines.
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post #6132 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
I’m getting it mixed up then. For HDR they set Auto and go. For SDR you’re right. Manual Iris is adjusted.
Usually for HDR, it opens the manual iris and defaults to high lamp. That is the default, but you can change it to whatever you want. Also I believe the default is HDR without the BT2020 filter, which is the brighter method for HDR, but slightly smaller color space.
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post #6133 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I think most people turn on the projector and go. The dynamic iris handles contrast.
Not people on these forums. They set the brightness using the manual iris, if they purchased a JVC.
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post #6134 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DennisLJacob View Post
So my new projector (RS3000) landed today. I'm letting it acclimate from the 20 degree outside temp to my house temps. So I need to make a few decisions before hanging the PJ. I have a couple questions that I hope someone can help me on.

Here are my system measurements. 16:9 AT drop down screen with top of screen height 8.5 inches down from the ceiling. I can raise it another inch maybe or lower it 4 or 5 inches if desired. The throw distance will be about 14.5 feet. Now for the PJ side. My current mount is set such that the lens center will be 10.5 from the ceiling or I can change the 3" down tube to a 6" down tube. The later would give a 13.5 inch drop from the ceiling.

So what would be the best setup for vertical Len shift positions? From reading posts, some have mentioned halos or barrel reflections and being at 100% of V shift might not be advised. The next question is about horizontal lens shift. Here I can get very close to being centered. Or I can move the ceiling mount to take it off of center if desired.

So those are the first two decisions and questions I'd like to get some feedback on. What are your recommendations?
If your image starts 8.5" down from the ceiling, all you need is a 3" drop tube. If the lens is placed at the top of the image, you are only using 50% of the lens shift, not 100%. A 3" drop tube is going to place the lens center about 11" down.
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post #6135 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
On this note - I am planning to build a HTPC for MadVR - would a Nvidia 2060 be enough? Or am I better off with a 1070?

Also is a CoffeLake i5 (8400) processor recommended or could I get away with i3 (8100), or do i need an i7 (8700)

Finally is 8GB RAM enough for MadVR only (I will not PC game) or do I really need 16GB
A 2060 is actually faster than a 1070, so a 2060 is preferred. Also, madVR developer has shown interest in using the ray tracing and/or tensor cores that are new in the nvidia 20 series such as the 2060, so that's a second reason to get the 2060. Not to mention that in the USA at least the 2060 and 1070 seem to be about the same price.

CPU doesn't really matter, an i5-8400 is more than enough and 8GB of RAM is plenty, but you should easily be able to add more RAM should madVR change to be able to benefit from it.

This is way off-topic now though, I would direct all this madVR discussion to the madVR threads.
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Last edited by SirMaster; 02-19-2019 at 07:39 AM.
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post #6136 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 07:50 AM
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but it is still just a single .1 channel.
There is no audio codec that is higher than 7.1 (that I know of), so by your logic, there wouldn't ever be a 9.1.x or 11.1.x because there is only a max of 7 source channels, one LFE channel, and metadata for positional audio... So 7.1.x is the max... Everything else before the first . is derived from the bed channels, and everything after the second dot is derived from the metadata combined with those bed channels. Technically, the LFE is often a combination of LFE and main sub bass too, depending on how you set it up (I am guessing you only use LFE since your mains have 18's, lol)...

It's really all semantics though... Most people refer to how many independently processed channels their system can do, allowing for a processor to do 11.2.8, 9.2.4, 9.1.6, or even 13.11.8 in advanced 32 channel systems. Whose to say if they are right or wrong?

I have 3 mains, 4 surrounds (2 side, 2 rear), 6 subs, and 4 Atmos, but I only have 2 channels of subwoofer output, and run the front 4 on one channel and the rear 2 on the other. My pre/pro uses a combination of LFE channel and the bass from the main channels to create those two subwoofer channels, and they are independently set for distance and volume in the pre/pro. I can't set crossovers independently in the pre/pro, but I can in the DSP section of my amplifiers, but they do both start with the same signal, so it is debatable if they are 2 channels or one.

I still refer to my system as 7.2.4 though, because that is how many channels I am running out of my processor to amplifiers. Each sub technically has a different signal going to the speaker though as each are independently eq'd, so could you say I have a 7.6.4 system?
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post #6137 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
A 2060 is actually faster than a 1070, so a 2060 is preferred. Also, madVR developer has shown interest in using the ray tracing and/or tensor cores that are new in the nvidia 20 series such as the 2060, so that's a second reason to get the 2060. Not to mention that in the USA at least the 2060 and 1070 seem to be about the same price.

CPU doesn't really matter, an i5-8400 is more than enough and 8GB of RAM is plenty, but you should easily be able to add more RAM should madVR change to be able to benefit from it.

This is way off-topic now though, I would direct all this madVR discussion to the madVR threads.
Would you be kind enough to link to a good starting place? I've heard the Doom forum and a few on this forum but some are for testers.

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post #6138 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 08:16 AM
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Would you be kind enough to link to a good starting place? I've heard the Doom forum and a few on this forum but some are for testers.
Well for info about madVR tone mapping, you can participate in this thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...projector.html

For info about what to buy to use madVR, I would discuss that in this thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...tpc-madvr.html

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post #6139 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 08:20 AM
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I can certainly appreciate the discussion on MadVR and the Panny bluray players in relation to how well they can tone map compared to the JVC, but the fact is neither can do what the JVC can do - run any input through a tone map. So it is good to know information, but not really relevant for owners. Until either of these can accept inputs and tone map all 4k content coming in, they are accessories, not alternatives.

Of course, when either of those solutions can accept inputs, the JVC will be competing with other brands based on the basics: lumen output, lens quality, contrast measurements, and feature set. I for one wouldn't even be following this thread if it weren't for the internal tone mapping. It is, by far, the main reason I put my money on the table.

I don't mind the chatter about other tone mapping solutions, just please don't forget you are comparing apples to oranges.
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post #6140 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 08:25 AM
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Is there any reason as to why Dolby Vision is not supported by the new projectors? I assume that HDR10+ will be supported?
Dolby Vision requires extra cost for a license and I believe it also requires some additional hardware to facilitate Dolby's special processing. It's unlikely that we will see Dolby Vision in a projector any time soon.

I asked my dealer about HDR10+ support back in November. He asked JVC directly and they said they have no plans to support HDR10+ or to upgrade their firmware to support HDR10+ in the future. That was quite disappointing for me. It's one of the major features I would like to have going forward. Panasonic and other companies have been upgrading their Blu-Ray players and TVs to support HDR10+, so I expect JVC could do the same if they wanted to. It's probably more difficult to implement on a projector, however.
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post #6141 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by wombats View Post
Dolby Vision requires extra cost for a license and I believe it also requires some additional hardware to facilitate Dolby's special processing. It's unlikely that we will see Dolby Vision in a projector any time soon.

I asked my dealer about HDR10+ support back in November. He asked JVC directly and they said they have no plans to support HDR10+ or to upgrade their firmware to support HDR10+ in the future. That was quite disappointing for me. It's one of the major features I would like to have going forward. Panasonic and other companies have been upgrading their Blu-Ray players and TVs to support HDR10+, so I expect JVC could do the same if they wanted to. It's probably more difficult to implement on a projector, however.
If projectors were like TV's as in dealing with a known size and gain screen and sizes were limited to three smaller size screens, then yes projectors could do dolby vision. But with all the different choices of sze, aspect ratio and gain, it makes it nearly impossible for projectors to provide dolby vision.
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post #6142 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wombats View Post
Dolby Vision requires extra cost for a license and I believe it also requires some additional hardware to facilitate Dolby's special processing. It's unlikely that we will see Dolby Vision in a projector any time soon.

I asked my dealer about HDR10+ support back in November. He asked JVC directly and they said they have no plans to support HDR10+ or to upgrade their firmware to support HDR10+ in the future. That was quite disappointing for me. It's one of the major features I would like to have going forward. Panasonic and other companies have been upgrading their Blu-Ray players and TVs to support HDR10+, so I expect JVC could do the same if they wanted to. It's probably more difficult to implement on a projector, however.
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If projectors were like TV's as in dealing with a known size and gain screen and sizes were limited to three smaller size screens, then yes projectors could do dolby vision. But with all the different choices of sze, aspect ratio and gain, it makes it nearly impossible for projectors to provide dolby vision.
That can be understood. Lets hope they opt for HDR10+ Lucky us the picture is already amazing, but of course one wants the absolut latest features in the most recent hardware.
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post #6143 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 10:14 AM
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That can be understood. Lets hope they opt for HDR10+ Lucky us the picture is already amazing, but of course one wants the absolut latest features in the most recent hardware.
I don't see HDR10+ coming to projectors anytime soon. First there is very little content if any available and probably won't be for awhile since DolbyVision is so strongly anchored in the market. Second, projectors with their limited dynamic range, low light output, differing room environments, etc will have the same issues dealing with HDR10+ as they do with DolbyVision. Third, I have very little confidence in the industry to create accurate HDR10+ metadata. If they can't even handle static HDR data properly on a large percentage of the disks what makes you think HDR10+ would be any better.
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post #6144 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 10:49 AM
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I have very little confidence in the industry to create accurate HDR10+ metadata. If they can't even handle static HDR data properly on a large percentage of the disks what makes you think HDR10+ would be any better.
I would expect them to get better at it over time. Why bother with the any HDR features at all unless there is some expectation that future content will continue to support it and support it correctly?
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post #6145 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 11:28 AM
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I would expect them to get better at it over time. Why bother with the any HDR features at all unless there is some expectation that future content will continue to support it and support it correctly?
I just see DolbyVision wining the HDR wars much like VHS beat out BetaMax. That means HDR10+ really won't gain much acceptance with content providers. So HDR10+ may be dead before it ever really penetrates the market.
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post #6146 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 12:04 PM
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Perhaps asking my question for a 3rd time may elicit some response(s): The pursuit of excellence in tone mapping of HDR10 via MadVR (etc.) seems to be an expensive and somewhat complicated endeavor. Is there any appreciable difference in the ultimate video product when compared with the more simplistic (and less costly?) approach of tone remapping to SDR BT2020 of UHD discs when it comes to deep black & contrast?
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post #6147 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Just to clarify, madVR pixel shader tonemapping *doesn’t* need the display to be set to a 2.2 gamma.

The display can be set to anything. If what you set it to is accurately calibrated to what you tell madVR it is in the calibration tab ("this display is already calibrate to"), it shoudn’t make any difference. If you use a 3D LUT, the LUT *target* has to be 2.2 but the display itself can still be set to anything.

I’ve explained this in the JVC calibration thread for 2019 models in a short note to madVR users in my recommended settings a few days ago, and I’ll post there recommended settings for madVR playback and calibration after a public build is released, as at the moment the settings for tonemapping are changing daily. Make sure you follow the 2019 calibration thread if you want any updates.
manni thank you for this explanation, can you point me to this thread for 2019 JVC calibration please as I cant find it?

Murray Thompson
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CinemascopE Home Cinema Build & 2014 rebuild, plus new LED ceiling install Christmas 2018

Last edited by RapalloAV; 02-19-2019 at 12:23 PM.
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post #6148 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 01:18 PM
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Please don't link or discuss other forums on AVS.
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post #6149 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 01:26 PM
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Please don't link or discuss other forums on AVS.

How about someone start a JVC Autocal calibration thread here?
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post #6150 of 12892 Old 02-19-2019, 01:52 PM
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This showed up yesterday... finally... picture is amazing... lol
It's an NX7 and I live in Dallas (in case people are wondering where these things are making it to).

I need to dig for relevant info about settings now.
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