Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 206 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6151 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
I can totally get down with this, but I’d argue that we’re all on this forum due “good otherwise” not being....good enough.

Right?
To me it looks like the normal border outside the viewing part of the LCOS panel. I do have a border around the image but for me it is not visible once you zoom the picture to fill the screen. Are you saying you see this once the picture size is set correctly?
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post #6152 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
I can totally get down with this, but I’d argue that we’re all on this forum due “good otherwise” not being....good enough.

Right?


There is overspray of light around the panel is normal on all JVC projectors I have seen. I am surprised why so few people have said this.

While it does look like for your picture you might have a corner that’s brighter than the other areas, you would have to confirm that. But outside of the full 17:9 panel there is a slightly lit over-spray look all the way around the panel.

This exist on both my RS2000 projectors, and my RS600, and all my JVCs prior.

Sony LCOS projectors have something similar as well.

Normally that overspray of light around the panel is just masked by the border around the screen. But if I had your unit, I would look at a full black image, and make sure you don’t have any corners that are far brighter than the center of the image.




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post #6153 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Perhaps asking my question for a 3rd time may elicit some response(s): The pursuit of excellence in tone mapping of HDR10 via MadVR (etc.) seems to be an expensive and somewhat complicated endeavor. Is there any appreciable difference in the ultimate video product when compared with the more simplistic (and less costly?) approach of tone remapping to SDR BT2020 of UHD discs when it comes to deep black & contrast?
I tested both using a newly built HTPC, using a RTX 2070 and the latest MadVR beta, and the Nvidia Shield using just the JVCs tone mapping from the HDR metadata on each title....the result....

The HTPC is now my sole JVC RS3000 HDR machine.... even with all its shortcomings, compared to the ease of use of the Shield.
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post #6154 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mauricef View Post
To me it looks like the normal border outside the viewing part of the LCOS panel. I do have a border around the image but for me it is not visible once you zoom the picture to fill the screen. Are you saying you see this once the picture size is set correctly?


No not at all. I’m new to JVC projectors and projectors in general so I was curious if it was a problem or other people saw it.
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post #6155 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
There is overspray of light around the panel is normal on all JVC projectors I have seen. I am surprised why so few people have said this.

While it does look like for your picture you might have a corner that’s brighter than the other areas, you would have to confirm that. But outside of the full 17:9 panel there is a slightly lit over-spray look all the way around the panel.

This exist on both my RS2000 projectors, and my RS600, and all my JVCs prior.

Sony LCOS projectors have something similar as well.

Normally that overspray of light around the panel is just masked by the border around the screen. But if I had your unit, I would look at a full black image, and make sure you don’t have any corners that are far brighter than the center of the image.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Will do! What’s the easiest way to toss up a full black image?
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post #6156 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:18 PM
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Will do! What’s the easiest way to toss up a full black image?
Press hide.
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post #6157 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:19 PM
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Looks like ccool96 and I had the same thought. It is just overspray and normal.
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post #6158 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:19 PM
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Press hide.


Seriously? Wow. The more you know.
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post #6159 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
There is overspray of light around the panel is normal on all JVC projectors I have seen. I am surprised why so few people have said this.

While it does look like for your picture you might have a corner that’s brighter than the other areas, you would have to confirm that. But outside of the full 17:9 panel there is a slightly lit over-spray look all the way around the panel.

This exist on both my RS2000 projectors, and my RS600, and all my JVCs prior.

Sony LCOS projectors have something similar as well.

Normally that overspray of light around the panel is just masked by the border around the screen. But if I had your unit, I would look at a full black image, and make sure you don’t have any corners that are far brighter than the center of the image.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Top left and top right corners look brighter in Auto2. Clamping the Iris down - it’s a lot more uniform.
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post #6160 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Top left and top right corners look brighter in Auto2. Clamping the Iris down - it’s a lot more uniform.


JVC units have suffered from bright corners for quite a long time. Unless you have terrible uniformity with extremely bright corners, I wouldn’t be concerned. Especially if you are happy with everything else!

Sounds like you have a good unit over all, so you should be able to relax knowing all is ok.


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post #6161 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Seriously? Wow. The more you know.
Indeed. My first projector it took me a couple of weeks to pluck up the courage to press it, in case it really did hide the PJ and I wouldn't be able to find it again...
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post #6162 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:45 PM
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I just see DolbyVision wining the HDR wars much like VHS beat out BetaMax. That means HDR10+ really won't gain much acceptance with content providers. So HDR10+ may be dead before it ever really penetrates the market.


I think it will be the opposite. Betamax was higher quality but the liscence fees were much higher than VHS that’s why it lost. Dolby Vision has much higher fees and is not much better quality than HDR10+. I predict that Dolby Vision will end up in the format graveyard.
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post #6163 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
I think it will be the opposite. Betamax was higher quality but the liscence fees were much higher than VHS that’s why it lost. Dolby Vision has much higher fees and is not much better quality than HDR10+. I predict that Dolby Vision will end up in the format graveyard.
We can only hope, as their approach to licensing to HT projection and video processors (ie: NOT) isn't going to help us all out any time soon.
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post #6164 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:49 PM
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My first projector it took me a couple of weeks to pluck up the courage to press it, in case it really did hide the PJ and I wouldn't be able to find it again...
I don’t think that’s a concern as long as you don’t lose the remote after pressing Hide.
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post #6165 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:53 PM
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I don’t think that’s a concern as long as you don’t lose the remote after pressing Hide.
You tell me, I couldn't see an "unhide" button... I wasn't chancing it!
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post #6166 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 02:55 PM
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Gotcha. So mine would be 7.2.4 because my AVM60 has two sub outs, correct?


No, both sub outputs send the same signal.


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post #6167 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 03:29 PM
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I tested both using a newly built HTPC, using a RTX 2070 and the latest MadVR beta, and the Nvidia Shield using just the JVCs tone mapping from the HDR metadata on each title....the result....

The HTPC is now my sole JVC RS3000 HDR machine.... even with all its shortcomings, compared to the ease of use of the Shield.
Sounds like MadVR is really great but is it a night and day difference compared to using JVC's tone mapping or Custom Curves?
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post #6168 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
JVC units have suffered from bright corners for quite a long time. Unless you have terrible uniformity with extremely bright corners, I wouldn’t be concerned. Especially if you are happy with everything else!

Sounds like you have a good unit over all, so you should be able to relax knowing all is ok.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


It’s not bad. Not noticeable at all. I’m good I think.
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post #6169 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 03:38 PM
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Indeed. My first projector it took me a couple of weeks to pluck up the courage to press it, in case it really did hide the PJ and I wouldn't be able to find it again...


Lol. Got a chuckle out of me.
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post #6170 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 03:39 PM
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On the RS2000 and RS3000 there is a DI and manual Iris - correct? So two? Can these be used at the same time in conjunction with each other?
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post #6171 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
Sounds like MadVR is really great but is it a night and day difference compared to using JVC's tone mapping or Custom Curves?
I don't know about custom curves, never used them, but in my humble, albeit worthless, opinion...yes MadVR is night and day compared to JVCs tone mapping. I did not just spend $500 for a RTX 2070 for just a minor difference.
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post #6172 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
On the RS2000 and RS3000 there is a DI and manual Iris - correct? So two? Can these be used at the same time in conjunction with each other?
You will have an option to use Manual which will be a fixed setting for the DI. So if you set it at -5 it will never go brighter or darker then that setting. The other two options are Auto 1 and Auto 2 which both act a littler different in how they affect the picture.

If you first set the DI to -5 while in the manual setting you can then change it to either of the Auto settings. Now you picture will never get any brighter then this setting but it can now get darker. It will help with darker scenes and fade to black scenes. The DI was very aggressive on last years models and could be noticed while working but most have said the DI for the new models works great and is not noticeable.

So the Dynamic Iris is the lens iris which can be seen at the front of the projector lens and has 3 options - Manual, Auto 1 and Auto 2. The RS2000 and 3000 also have a lamp iris which can't be seen or adjusted.
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post #6173 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bix26 View Post
I think it will be the opposite. Betamax was higher quality but the liscence fees were much higher than VHS that’s why it lost. Dolby Vision has much higher fees and is not much better quality than HDR10+. I predict that Dolby Vision will end up in the format graveyard.
That's true but DV has taken over the market already whereas HDR10+ is nowhere to be seen. Almost every major manufacturer is now licensing DV and have DV capable players and TVs. Projectors lag behind because DV is not designed for them and there is no DV standard for home theaters.

Almost every new ultraHD Blu-ray being released is coming out in DolbyVision and Dolby Atmos. Add that to the fact that Dolby's chain of Dolby Theaters are very popular and promoting the Dolby trade mark spells curtains for HDR10+ even before it gets going.
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post #6174 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
You will have an option to use Manual which will be a fixed setting for the DI. So if you set it at -5 it will never go brighter or darker then that setting. The other two options are Auto 1 and Auto 2 which both act a littler different in how they affect the picture.



If you first set the DI to -5 while in the manual setting you can then change it to either of the Auto settings. Now you picture will never get any brighter then this setting but it can now get darker. It will help with darker scenes and fade to black scenes. The DI was very aggressive on last years models and could be noticed while working but most have said the DI for the new models works great and is not noticeable.



So the Dynamic Iris is the lens iris which can be seen at the front of the projector lens and has 3 options - Manual, Auto 1 and Auto 2. The RS2000 and 3000 also have a lamp iris which can't be seen or adjusted.


Got it. That makes total sense. Thanks!
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post #6175 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Perhaps asking my question for a 3rd time may elicit some response(s): The pursuit of excellence in tone mapping of HDR10 via MadVR (etc.) seems to be an expensive and somewhat complicated endeavor. Is there any appreciable difference in the ultimate video product when compared with the more simplistic (and less costly?) approach of tone remapping to SDR BT2020 of UHD discs when it comes to deep black & contrast?
The appreciable difference via MadVR vs the more simplistic (and less costly?) approach of tone remapping to SDR BT2020 of UHD discs cannot be understated. I don't know how you separate the deep blacks and contrast from that difference. I think the whole image is enhanced by MadVR rendering, which includes the blacks and contrast. However, that is just my opinion, with no science to back it up.

Simply put, (and in the opinion of most who frequent this forum and have seen 4K HDR presented on a projector using MadVR), MadVR renders the most visually pleasing and satisfying HDR image currently available for a JVC projector. A bonus is that MadVR up-scaling of traditional 2K BD material is often indistinguishable from 4K material. Having said that, it is not like using Panasonic BD player or JVC's tone mapping is horrible; however, IMO MadVR is the Holy Grail.

Pretty sure you will have to ask a 4th time, because I didn't answer your question either

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post #6176 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Perhaps asking my question for a 3rd time may elicit some response(s): The pursuit of excellence in tone mapping of HDR10 via MadVR (etc.) seems to be an expensive and somewhat complicated endeavor. Is there any appreciable difference in the ultimate video product when compared with the more simplistic (and less costly?) approach of tone remapping to SDR BT2020 of UHD discs when it comes to deep black & contrast?
The appreciable difference via MadVR vs the more simplistic (and less costly?) approach of tone remapping to SDR BT2020 of UHD discs cannot be understated. I don't know how you separate the deep blacks and contrast from that difference. I think the whole image is enhanced by MadVR rendering, which includes the blacks and contrast. However, that is just my opinion, with no science to back it up.

Simply put, (and in the opinion of most who frequent this forum and have seen 4K HDR presented on a projector using MadVR), MadVR renders the most visually pleasing and satisfying HDR image currently available for a JVC projector. A bonus is that MadVR up-scaling of traditional 2K BD material is often indistinguishable from 4K material. Having said that, it is not like using Panasonic BD player or JVC's tone mapping is horrible; however, IMO MadVR is the Holy Grail.

Pretty sure you will have to ask a 4th time, because I didn't answer your question either [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Willie
MadVR is tone mapping to SDR2020 as well. I think most people that toss these terms around don’t really know what they mean.
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post #6177 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 04:48 PM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
That's true but DV has taken over the market already whereas HDR10+ is nowhere to be seen. Almost every major manufacturer is now licensing DV and have DV capable players and TVs. Projectors lag behind because DV is not designed for them and there is no DV standard for home theaters.



Almost every new ultraHD Blu-ray being released is coming out in DolbyVision and Dolby Atmos. Add that to the fact that Dolby's chain of Dolby Theaters are very popular and promoting the Dolby trade mark spells curtains for HDR10+ even before it gets going.


That’s a good point. Come to think of it I haven’t seen any DTS:X marketing in a while. I wonder if that’s on its way out too. I really could care less what format wins, as long as the proper metadata is there for display makers to take advantage of.
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post #6178 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
Sounds like MadVR is really great but is it a night and day difference compared to using JVC's tone mapping or Custom Curves?
Ive never used custom curves as they are too complicated for me. However I have used the tone mapping on my NX9 which is ok but a bit dark for my liking, even on high lamp. But when you see madvr dynamic tone mapping on low lamp on my 145" curved ST130 screen from my NX9, it is "night and day" as you put it. I would never go back!

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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
MadVR is tone mapping to SDR2020 as well. I think most people that toss these terms around don’t really know what they mean.
That being the case, Kris, is it your impression that the tone mapping via the MadVR is more nuanced/accurate? If so, how would the differences between tone mapped SDR BT2020 for the MadVR versus other SDR BT2020 mapping vehicles (either HDFury or Panasonic, for example) be perceived by the viewer with native UHD source material?
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post #6180 of 12841 Old 02-19-2019, 05:04 PM
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Ive never used custom curves as they are too complicated for me. However i have used the tone mapping on my NX9 which is ok but a bit dark for my liking even on high lamp. But when you see madvr dynamic tone mapping on low lamp on the NX9, it is "nigh and day" as you put it. I would never go back!
Well there ya go.....I am taking it the madvr is pretty easy to use then?
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