Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 207 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6181 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Well there ya go.....I am taking it the madvr is pretty easy to use then?
madvr isnt simple to use, however if one is prepared to spend alot of time setting it up and testing to get the best settings it pays off. Im always learning new things with it and Ive been using it for years. However the new dynamic tone mapping is simple to use one you know the basics. But first before you use that section one needs to learn and know madvr, the HDR is onlt one small part of it.

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post #6182 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Applemike68 View Post
Anyone in the woodlands/Houston or surrounding area with the new projectors? If so, who are going to use to calibrate the new projector? I used Jeff to calibrate my 620. I can do this again but he lives out of state. Thanks

I have an RS2000.


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I’m in Houston, in Midtown and have an RS2000 as well that showed up last week. Love it so far! I’d be interested to split costs on someone coming in from out of state to do a calibration. I think there is another Houston person on the forum with a new JVC also.

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post #6183 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
If projectors were like TV's as in dealing with a known size and gain screen and sizes were limited to three smaller size screens, then yes projectors could do dolby vision. But with all the different choices of sze, aspect ratio and gain, it makes it nearly impossible for projectors to provide dolby vision.
The "installer" could enter the necessary data to configure the dolby vision. It's not "nearly impossible" at all. It just requires additional data.
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post #6184 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Perhaps asking my question for a 3rd time may elicit some response(s): The pursuit of excellence in tone mapping of HDR10 via MadVR (etc.) seems to be an expensive and somewhat complicated endeavor. Is there any appreciable difference in the ultimate video product when compared with the more simplistic (and less costly?) approach of tone remapping to SDR BT2020 of UHD discs when it comes to deep black & contrast?
For sure yes. MadVR, for example, allows blacks to be black, not raised and the rest of the content pops more. I'd say that contrast was one of the biggest noticeable differences I noticed with the last 2 weeks of changes in madVR.

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That being the case, Kris, is it your impression that the tone mapping via the MadVR is more nuanced/accurate? If so, how would the differences between tone mapped SDR BT2020 for the MadVR versus other SDR BT2020 mapping vehicles (either HDFury or Panasonic, for example) be perceived by the viewer with native UHD source material?
Your projector is inherently unable to correctly display HDR. It has 1/10th to 1/100th the required light. Curves and other options try to present a set solution that might help the problem, but madVR does a scene by scene analysis and this allows as close to the correct image as possible to be displayed. Unfortunately for anyone that doesn't have a PC built for it, it's far better, more accurate, and improves color, sharpness, detail, and contrast even on your UHD material. Then as a side feature, you can properly upscale your 1080p content and much of it is as good as studio upscaled 4K UHD from 2k sources.
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post #6185 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Press hide.
No that wont do it. That will not allow the iris to work as the iris works on the content behind hide. You need to actually display black for this test.

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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Seriously? Wow. The more you know.
You need to find some real content that's all black. Perhaps display a single 3840x2160 black picture?

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Indeed. My first projector it took me a couple of weeks to pluck up the courage to press it, in case it really did hide the PJ and I wouldn't be able to find it again...
I didn't know about hide when I first discovered it. My projector was "broken" and only a green LED was flashing. I got online to troubleshoot.

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Sounds like MadVR is really great but is it a night and day difference compared to using JVC's tone mapping or Custom Curves?
Yes. Unfortunately it is.
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post #6186 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
For sure yes. MadVR, for example, allows blacks to be black, not raised and the rest of the content pops more. I'd say that contrast was one of the biggest noticeable differences I noticed with the last 2 weeks of changes in madVR.

.
I agree, its been the last two weeks of updates from madvr thats turned it from something I had that was similar to the NX9 tone mapping, into something 100% better! But I understand its not for everyone as there is some homework, time and cost involved to get these results.

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post #6187 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
No that wont do it. That will not allow the iris to work as the iris works on the content behind hide. You need to actually display black for this test.



You need to find some real content that's all black. Perhaps display a single 3840x2160 black picture?



I didn't know about hide when I first discovered it. My projector was "broken" and only a green LED was flashing. I got online to troubleshoot.



Yes. Unfortunately it is.
Will do! We're all learning here - just on different levels.
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post #6188 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
No that wont do it. That will not allow the iris to work as the iris works on the content behind hide. You need to actually display black for this test.



You need to find some real content that's all black. Perhaps display a single 3840x2160 black picture?



I didn't know about hide when I first discovered it. My projector was "broken" and only a green LED was flashing. I got online to troubleshoot.



Yes. Unfortunately it is.
Dang you all - gonna make me drop $1500 and who knows how many hours on an HTPC to see what this MadVR business is all about.
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post #6189 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:12 PM
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My Nx7 shipped today, less than 48 hours now.
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post #6190 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
Dang you all - gonna make me drop $1500 and who knows how many hours on an HTPC to see what this MadVR business is all about.
That would be insane!!! If you have a 4xxx or newer CPU PC then you can easily re purpose it for just the price of a GPU.
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post #6191 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:18 PM
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The "installer" could enter the necessary data to configure the dolby vision. It's not "nearly impossible" at all. It just requires additional data.
Dolby Vision is not going to sign off on something so open ended as that.
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post #6192 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:37 PM
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Dolby Vision is not going to sign off on something so open ended as that.
Nonsense. If the projector company pays the licensing fee, Dolby is signing off on whatever.
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post #6193 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:44 PM
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Nonsense. If the projector company pays the licensing fee, Dolby is signing off on whatever.
Ain't gonna happen. Dolby doesn't work like that. If it were as simple as paying the licensing fee it would have been done already. Dolby is very very protective of their brand and will only license if they can be assured that the presentation is accurate.
i personally never see DV coming to home projection.
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post #6194 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:46 PM
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Nonsense. If the projector company pays the licensing fee, Dolby is signing off on whatever.
Yeah, sure. That is what Sony thought two or three years ago. Sony was saying they could do Dolby Vision, but Dolby would not sign off. Look at it from Dolby Vision's side. The internet allows one person to have a big voice. So all it would take would be for a few people to buy a projector, pair it with too big of a screen and then talk about how bad Dolby Vision looked. That's the kind of thing that sinks new formats.

Added
There is a two or three year old Youtube Sony interview where Sony is saying their projectors have the capability to do Dolby Vision.
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post #6195 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:47 PM
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Ain't gonna happen. Dolby doesn't work like that. If it were as simple as paying the licensing fee it would have been done already. Dolby is very very protective of their brand and will only license if they can be assured that the presentation is accurate.
i personally never see DV coming to home projection.
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Yeah, sure. That is what Sony thought two or three years ago. Sony was saying they could do Dolby Vision, but Dolby would not sign off. Look at it from Dolby Vision's side. The internet allows one person to have a big voice. So all it would take would be for a few people to buy a projector, pair it with too big of a screen and then talk about how bad Dolby Vision looked. That's the kind of thing that sinks new formats.
How's this any different than people hooking up super crap speakers to their "Dolby Atmos" receiver?

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post #6196 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:52 PM
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Problem with MadVR is it requires an HTPC. Just too much work and inconvenience. It is so much easier to just turn on the satellite TV, stream from the AppleTV or pop in a blu-ray. Plus it messes up automation and makes it too hard for the spouse to operate. Ripping, fighting copyright issues, organizing, storing, and updating content takes just too much time and money.

Granted once you go to all the trouble you get a great result but in a lot of cases the blu-ray HDR10, tone mapped by the JVC properly is already a stellar experience.
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post #6197 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:55 PM
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How's this any different than people hooking up super crap speakers to their "Dolby Atmos" receiver?
Completely different divisions. Dolby video is much more specific and has a lot more control on the product.
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post #6198 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 07:57 PM
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Ain't gonna happen. Dolby doesn't work like that. If it were as simple as paying the licensing fee it would have been done already. Dolby is very very protective of their brand and will only license if they can be assured that the presentation is accurate.
i personally never see DV coming to home projection.
I wish that were true of the "Dolby Cinemas". They signed off on AMC to host them (not sure if in all cities they are AMC though) and they turned around and made them one of the worst cinema experiences ever. Small family owned Harkins kills them with their CineOne theaters.
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post #6199 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 08:00 PM
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Problem with MadVR is it requires an HTPC. Just too much work and inconvenience. It is so much easier to just turn on the satellite TV, stream from the AppleTV or pop in a blu-ray. Plus it messes up automation and makes it too hard for the spouse to operate. Ripping, fighting copyright issues, organizing, storing, and updating content takes just too much time and money.

Granted once you go to all the trouble you get a great result but in a lot of cases the blu-ray HDR10, tone mapped by the JVC properly is already a stellar experience.
Took me less than a day to build one and it is not more expensive than the new top-of the line UHD players. And MadVR kills over the JVC tone mapping...not even close. And let's not forget JVC's just awful 1080p to 4k upscaling on their new projectors. MadVR is leaps and bounds better than almost any other upscaler.
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post #6200 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 08:02 PM
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I wish that were true of the "Dolby Cinemas". They signed off on AMC to host them (not sure if in all cities they are AMC though) and they turned around and made them one of the worst cinema experiences ever. Small family owned Harkins kills them with their CineOne theaters.
Seriously ?, I'm surprised. The Dolby Cinemas that I have been in have been spectacular. At least the ones that are true Dolby Cinemas that offer Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos with lounge chair seating.
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post #6201 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 08:02 PM
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I had last said that I was going to wait until the next model go round to upgrade my lowly Sony 40ES. I was considering the RS1000 as that was around my budget but was thinking I could save more money by waiting and let them work out a few of the kinks.

Well last week my projector finally bit the dust and pushed me to make a move. I decided to call Mike G. and we talked a bit and I placed an order for a JVC RS540. Said they should be shipping around mid March. It was cheaper then my budget and I am VERY excited!! I also talked with Chris at Cleveland Plasma about the RS540. Some great dealers around here and thats a great comfort.

Im going to use the RS540 for a few years then I may upgrade to a laser native 4K JVC unit at some point in the future. Im very excited for the increase in contrast and black level with the RS540 as well as hopefully a bit more brightness. I can't wait!

JBL Pro Cinema/JTR/JVC/Denon/Oppo/Roku Ultra/Elite Screens/Furman/Seatcraft/Acoustimac/AudioQuest
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post #6202 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 08:08 PM
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Took me less than a day to build one and it is not more expensive than the new top-of the line UHD players. And MadVR kills over the JVC tone mapping...not even close. And let's not forget JVC's just awful 1080p to 4k upscaling on their new projectors. MadVR is leaps and bounds better than almost any other upscaler.
Building it is only a fraction of the effort. Maintaining, ripping content, and updating is the time consuming part.

I understand why some like doing it but I do too much computer work in my job and would rather not spend hours behind a keyboard ripping videos when I can just stream content with the push of a button.
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post #6203 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 08:13 PM
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Dang you all - gonna make me drop $1500 and who knows how many hours on an HTPC to see what this MadVR business is all about.
Would be great if someone were to market a modular, set top "madvr" box that is easily upgradable---kinda like a poor man's Lumagen . I would be customer #1 .
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post #6204 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 08:19 PM
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And let's not forget JVC's just awful 1080p to 4k upscaling on their new projectors. MadVR is leaps and bounds better than almost any other upscaler.
The only thing I miss about upgrading from a Sony 385 to an RS3000 is 4k upscaling with reality creation and native motion handling. The RS3000 motion is almost as good but the upscaling is pretty poor.

However, MadVR won't help me as most of my 1080p content is from satellite tv. No, way to get that into madVR. My 1080p blu-rays are upscaled great by the UB820 and ATV does an excellent job of upscaling 1080p streaming content.
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post #6205 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 08:23 PM
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Problem with MadVR is it requires an HTPC. Just too much work and inconvenience. It is so much easier to just turn on the satellite TV, stream from the AppleTV or pop in a blu-ray. Plus it messes up automation and makes it too hard for the spouse to operate. Ripping, fighting copyright issues, organizing, storing, and updating content takes just too much time and money.

Granted once you go to all the trouble you get a great result but in a lot of cases the blu-ray HDR10, tone mapped by the JVC properly is already a stellar experience.
Pretty much all this is true *except* the part about the HTPC messing up automation. In fact, I'd argue my system is more automated than yours *because* of the HTPC.

I press one button and my JVC projector is powered on, receiver powered on, volume levels are set, and projector fires up into kodi in movie mode ready to accept commands on the remote to start a movie. No getting up to find a disk etc.

I select one movie and the following happens:
- Movie is analyzed, masking is applied only if aspect needs it
- Receiver is put into specific mode for that movie or generic movie mode if a preset for that movie doesnt exist. Yes, it can change settings per movie. (Disney movies might get more bass etc)
- Projector is sent into correct input. Natural for TV and SDR movies, Cinema1 for HDR movies.
- If audio track is atmos an atmos 60 sec demo clip is played, if dts-x a 60 sec dts clip played.
- Masking is engaged as needed, picture moved to top of screen if needed, movie starts
- When movie ends or exits, all these things are "undone" and ready for next movie.

PC handles all of this. Not to mention there's no getting up to change disks etc.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #6207 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Pretty much all this is true *except* the part about the HTPC messing up automation. In fact, I'd argue my system is more automated than yours *because* of the HTPC.

I press one button and my JVC projector is powered on, receiver powered on, volume levels are set, and projector fires up into kodi in movie mode ready to accept commands on the remote to start a movie. No getting up to find a disk etc.

I select one movie and the following happens:
- Movie is analyzed, masking is applied only if aspect needs it
- Receiver is put into specific mode for that movie or generic movie mode if a preset for that movie doesnt exist. Yes, it can change settings per movie. (Disney movies might get more bass etc)
- Projector is sent into correct input. Natural for TV and SDR movies, Cinema1 for HDR movies.
- If audio track is atmos an atmos 60 sec demo clip is played, if dts-x a 60 sec dts clip played.
- Masking is engaged as needed, picture moved to top of screen if needed, movie starts
- When movie ends or exits, all these things are "undone" and ready for next movie.

PC handles all of this. Not to mention there's no getting up to change disks etc.
I understand that it can be done but lets say that your power goes out and comes on again while you are out of town on business. Your wife wants to watch her favorite show on the satellite tv hooked to your system. The HTPC is blinking and windows 10 is in the middle of taking an update. How easy is it to walk your spouse through a text session to get it all operational?

All mine has to do if something is screwed up is press the off button on the Harmony remote, wait a few seconds, and press the "Watch TV button". The projector comes on, switches to the proper installation mode, the directv receiver switches on, the Marantz AVR sets itself to satellite tv, the proper HDMI ports are selected, and the spouse is happy.
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post #6208 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 09:00 PM
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Can someone direct me to a basic MadVR setup that will jive with the new JVC projectors? Thanks.
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post #6209 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I understand that it can be done but lets say that your power goes out and comes on again while you are out of town on business. Your wife wants to watch her favorite show on the satellite tv hooked to your system.
Satellite TV has nothing to do with an HTPC. So I guess the difficulty here is the same level of difficulty as without an HTPC.


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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
The HTPC is blinking and windows 10 is in the middle of taking an update.
Windows 10 *auto* updates are disabled so this never happens. Never. I choose if/when to take updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
How easy is it to walk your spouse through a text session to get it all operational? All mine has to do if something is screwed up is press the off button on the Harmony remote, wait a few seconds, and press the "Watch TV button". The projector comes on, switches to the proper installation mode, the directv receiver switches on, the Marantz AVR sets itself to satellite tv, the proper HDMI ports are selected, and the spouse is happy.
Sounds great. I don't see what that has to do with an HTPC either having one or not. If you added an HTPC, it would be on a different HDMI input on your receiver and would have nothing to do with satellite TV.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #6210 of 14169 Old 02-19-2019, 09:02 PM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
Took me less than a day to build one and it is not more expensive than the new top-of the line UHD players. And MadVR kills over the JVC tone mapping...not even close. And let's not forget JVC's just awful 1080p to 4k upscaling on their new projectors. MadVR is leaps and bounds better than almost any other upscaler.


I have been toying with the idea of a budget HTPC and came up with this list for $672. I have to add a blu-Ray rip capable optical drive so add another 75 to it. It also lacks storage as I have several 120GB SSD lying around and a 8TB external drive that will be used to store my blu ray rips.

So for ~750 you can get a real kick-ass upscaling and HDR tone mapping system

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/P7NQbX

Just need to figure out how do I get all of these boxes delivered to my door and moved to my theatre room without wife noticing.


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Gear: Fronts: B&W 803D3 | Center: B&W HTM2D3 | Surrounds: B&W 705S2 | Backs: B&W DM601S3 | Heights: Definitive Techonlogy ProCinema 1000 | Receiver & Amps: Anthem MRX 720 + Emotiva BasX-5 | Projector: JVC NX7 | Source: HTPC with Nvidia 2070, Kodi + External Player: MPC-HC with MadVR (for Blu-ray rips), Nvidia Shield (for streaming content)

Last edited by tommarra; 02-19-2019 at 09:07 PM.
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