Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 21 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #601 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceJK View Post
I do find that there is less streaking and internal reflections on the NX7 as compared to the X750. On the X750 a bright highlight on one side of the screen would often cause a nebulous ghost reflection on the opposite side of the screen. I haven't been able to detect that on the NX7. Streaking also seems better.

Although the lens in the NX7 is unchanged from the X750 and not up to the NX9 level, other improvements in the optical block are common to all models with this new chassis and subjectively at least - result in sharper images with better contrast.
I was curious if the extra cost of the NX9 lens would be worth it. If they indeed improved the streaking and reflections on the regular lens, then it's one less reason to spend more. At this point, I would need to see photos of the streaking/reflection test patterns I linked in the other thread to justify the NX9. The sharpness benefits seem dubious based on the posted close-up photos and I have zero interest in 8K e-shift when there are no 8K compatible inputs or source material.

Regarding lamp flicker or brightness pulsating, I remembered a good test scene was the opening of Alien Covenant. That white room interview with David would be unwatchable on manual iris -15 in my setup on the RS6xx. Maybe you can test yours on -15 and report back. Thanks.
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post #602 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
= The midpoint between minimum and maximum zoom


Thank you for the work and for posting the numbers about cr.


What I and other miss was the cr. at max. zoom (biggest picture) as you agree to measure if I remember right.
Best is to do it at min. and max. zoom.
But I bet this cr. will be at max. zoom (biggest picture) in the 25-26.000:1 range.

So it looks like the JVC X9 had with about 26.000:1 native about double the cr. on off compare to the Sony projectors as there are in the 12-14.000:1 range.
For ansi cr. the Sony will be beat the X9 as many Sony 4K Pr. are in the 350:1 range so about 60% better here.


Lets see if the X7 or X5 will have more ansi cr.
If so tell JVC that we do not like the 8k e shift marketing as I had post it creates only disadvantages!
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post #603 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 02:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Yes my unit has this bug... However, with the iris wide open (set to '0') the bug does not exist and it works absolutely fine. So it seems to only happen if/when you close down the iris.

Suffice to say that I have reported the bug to JVC Europe, my side of the pond. They really need to fix this bug ASAP...

I noticed in my session with chad, he ran new calibrations every 3 iris stops? Could it be these registers got cleared and not reset? If yes, the calculations would be different for each unit?

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post #604 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Not to beat a dead horse here but how do you take an extra 8+ weeks to release your brand new line of 4k projectors because JVC was advertised was wanting to release a stellar unit (aka get it as close to perfect as they can) because they know the world is watching and then not catch this ....while it was caught on AVS in under 24 hours..really????
As with first model year consumer products, the public are beta testers.

I would reckon JVC doesn't have a highly automated test environment, they very much rely on eyeballs.
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post #605 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 02:17 PM
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Checked also with HDR same type patterns HDR10 and same result, even some visible change with iris at wide open , At iris -8 you see drastic gamma change, and the picture gets purple/blue ish. With SDR it got more yellow.
Then the same with autoiris 1 or 2 ON. So after what I see, I will say useless with Auto iris engaged.


So JVC need to fix this, this will become a huge problem for new owners.

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post #606 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Really difficult to understand how something this basic could have been missed during development and QA testing over a multi-year project. At the very least, QA toggles all the knobs, switches, and menu options on a product to see if they have expected results. As others have said, it took less than 24 hours for someone to find the problem here
Sounds like, ship product so CES would be a presentation with reduced negative chatter, but product was not ready?

It begs the question, is the issue related to the FIX? (dodge, duck, dive and dodge from M )

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post #607 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 703 View Post
As with first model year consumer products, the public are beta testers.

I would reckon JVC doesn't have a highly automated test environment, they very much rely on eyeballs.
Continuous integration on complex hardware products is pretty difficult to do. As someone who works on smaller scale hardware / software / firmware / FPGA products I appreciate the challenges they would face in trying to put in place a full automated test suite.
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post #608 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Here you go :



Thanks for the update! ;-)

Are these results from the same ADL patterns from Anna & Flo?

Regards,
Ekki
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post #609 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 02:53 PM
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Just an observation but panel alignment on the new models seem excellent, much better than my 540.

So question, if DLP's can put a 2500 dollar laser into their box's is it out of the question JVC couldn't put a 5000 dollar laser into an NX5 or NX7?

I don't need 3000 RS4500 light, 2400 will do.
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post #610 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Not to beat a dead horse here but how do you take an extra 8+ weeks to release your brand new line of 4k projectors because JVC was advertised was wanting to release a stellar unit (aka get it as close to perfect as they can) because they know the world is watching and then not catch this ....while it was caught on AVS in under 24 hours..really????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Really difficult to understand how something this basic could have been missed during development and QA testing over a multi-year project. At the very least, QA toggles all the knobs, switches, and menu options on a product to see if they have expected results. As others have said, it took less than 24 hours for someone to find the problem here.
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So JVC need to fix this, this will become a huge problem for new owners.
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Sounds like, ship product so CES would be a presentation with reduced negative chatter, but product was not ready?

It begs the question, is the issue related to the FIX? (dodge, duck, dive and dodge from M )
Guys, I'm really sorry if I disappointed any of you when I tried to be a peacemaker when that whole thing with Ekki happened here a few days ago. But as I think back now, I wonder if he saw these issues with his NX9 sample and didn't to write about it out of fear of negative criticism?

Anyway, Martin and RJ, you both know I had my heart set on the NX9. I had it on pre-order (for a pretty ridiculous price too), but then came the delay. And I waited...and waited...and waited as supposedly JVC was delaying to get things "perfect" for us, as some here had chimed. So...I now have the option to continue/re-order the NX9 as the delay has been lifted. However, I'm afraid of what I'll get now and if I do get a sour iris unit, how, if, and when will the issue be remedied.

Sadly, I think I'm going to bail out for now. I'll pop in on this owners' thread on occasion to see how it carries on.

Last edited by Aztar35; 01-09-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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post #611 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:01 PM
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My initial observations from the 1-2 hour test I had this morning with the RS3000.

  • This thing is sharp. But not razor sharp. Had to turn off 8k e-shift (turned on by default) to get a bit better sharpness. But still not mind-blowing.
  • I wanted to see what the THX setting would look like OOTB with UHD and it was like contrast/saturation dialed down to absolute zero. Is that normal? Does THX setting have to be dialed in or calibrated before it looks good? If this is what it looks like OOTB then they may want to let us know that cause it looked like crap.
  • Saw some strange behavior with the tone mapping and the MaxCLL/FALL data. Some titles looked way too dark OOTB but others looked perfect. Turning off tone-mapping made them all look the same. This was verified via Oppo, Sheild, and HTPC.
  • The fan on HDR mode is freaking loud. I was standing 7-feet away and I could still hear it. If this is normal I will have to hush box this bad boy. BTW, the fan completely shuts down on non-HDR to the point I cannot hear it right next to it.
  • I did not dig deep into the HDR settings since I need to get back to work on my build but more importantly, I did not know exactly what I should set some of the HDR settings for best picture.
  • The DI makes quite a bit of noise (movement) in HDR Auto, granted I was right up to it to hear it due to the fan being so loud but I was surprised it was so noisy and active. Turned it off and it was deadly quiet. In the quick test I made I hardly noticed any difference in contrast with the DI on or off but I really can't tell with my screen samples being so small.

Then I read all the posts from this morning on the other units delivered. "I have a bad feeling about this Chewy!"
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post #612 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post

Anyway, Martin and RJ, you both know I had my heart set on the NX9. I had it on pre-order (for a pretty ridiculous price too), but then came the delay. And I waited...and waited...and waited as supposedly JVC was delaying to get things "perfect" for us, as some here had chimed. So...I now have the option to continue/re-order the NX9 as the delay has been lifted.

However, I'm afraid of what I'll get now and if I do get a sour iris unit, how, if, and when will the issue be remedied.

Sadly, I think I'm going to bail out for now. I'll pop in on this owners' thread on occasion to see how it carries on.
Aztar35,

You know what guys say that over the years JUMPED in and purchased the 1st year of a New Car ???
To me this is really no different.
New technologies that will be ironed out over time if the 1st buyers are willing to hang Tough while that takes place.
Personally and only speaking for myself I'm so glad I did go with the RS4500 Laser that had already been through those 1st little Hiccups.
My RS4500 works exactly as JVC wanted it to and especially so after Chad B. did his Custom Calibrations some weeks ago.

Terry
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post #613 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Aztar35,

You know what guys say that over the years JUMPED in and purchased the 1st year of a New Car ???
To me this is really no different.
New technologies that will be ironed out over time if the 1st buyers are willing to hang Tough while that takes place.
Personally and only speaking for myself I'm so glad I did go with the RS4500 Laser that had already been through those 1st little Hiccups.
My RS4500 works exactly as JVC wanted it to and especially so after Chad B. did his Custom Calibrations some weeks ago.

Terry

Thanks, Terry. That's a good point for sure. And from our back and forth's and your posts in general, I know how much you love that RS4500. I can't say I blame you. I consider it a specialty item. From everything I've read about it, I don't think any of these JVCs can touch it. I personally believe it's not just the laser and the lens, but its processing too. As far as the RS4500's early dimming function, perhaps it was less effective then but at least it was was usable in not causing aberrations.

I hope this DI issue will be remedied soon.
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post #614 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 703 View Post
As with first model year consumer products, the public are beta testers.

I would reckon JVC doesn't have a highly automated test environment, they very much rely on eyeballs.
And this is why so many of us AVS members and audio/videophiles, after being so badly burned in the past, refuse to be "early adopter testing guinea pigs" at our own expense any longer.
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post #615 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Thanks, Terry. That's a good point for sure. And from our back and forth's and your posts in general, I know how much you love that RS4500. I can't say I blame you. I consider it a specialty item. From everything I've read about it, I don't think any of these JVCs can touch it. I personally believe it's not just the laser and the lens, but its processing too. As far as the RS4500's early dimming function, perhaps it was less effective then but at least it was was usable in not causing aberrations.

I hope this DI issue will be remedied soon.
Look, they have to fix it and as soon as they can. They have already proven that they will stop shipment in order to try to get it right. Not like other manufactures who don't admit it or do nothing about it. You can't leave the DI just sitting there they would have a huge uproar.

I would rather stick it out with a manufacture that is willing to fix it than one that just sticks their head in the sand because the are EXTREMELY ARROGANT! And I have owned and liked their product. Not naming names but I bet you can guess. Also, my Optima I have to ship in to get a FW fix, what a pain.

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post #616 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
You refer to the DI?

The PrePro showed artefacts with the DI, yes.

I did not mention them here, true. But not out of fear (I think everyone could see that I do not fear anyone here ) but because JVC was aware of problems and told me so. That is why I decided to wait for the final Firmware before I say anything about the DI. I try always to be as fair as possible to the manufacturers.

Regards,
Ekki
Hi, Ekki.
I'm assuming this was only with regard to your pre-production unit though right? So, is there firmware out already to remedy this issue?
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post #617 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:23 PM
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From what I understand and read, I believe it was woofer that has/has a pre-production NX9 and fully functional DI.

It wasn’t until this latest round of firmware that the DI became crippled. Woofer is that correct or did I read wrong?
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post #618 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YesAnotherTweet View Post
My initial observations from the 1-2 hour test I had this morning with the RS3000.

  • This thing is sharp. But not razor sharp. Had to turn off 8k e-shift (turned on by default) to get a bit better sharpness. But still not mind-blowing.
  • I wanted to see what the THX setting would look like OOTB with UHD and it was like contrast/saturation dialed down to absolute zero. Is that normal? Does THX setting have to be dialed in or calibrated before it looks good? If this is what it looks like OOTB then they may want to let us know that cause it looked like crap.
  • Saw some strange behavior with the tone mapping and the MaxCLL/FALL data. Some titles looked way too dark OOTB but others looked perfect. Turning off tone-mapping made them all look the same. This was verified via Oppo, Sheild, and HTPC.
  • The fan on HDR mode is freaking loud. I was standing 7-feet away and I could still hear it. If this is normal I will have to hush box this bad boy. BTW, the fan completely shuts down on non-HDR to the point I cannot hear it right next to it.
  • I did not dig deep into the HDR settings since I need to get back to work on my build but more importantly, I did not know exactly what I should set some of the HDR settings for best picture.
  • The DI makes quite a bit of noise (movement) in HDR Auto, granted I was right up to it to hear it due to the fan being so loud but I was surprised it was so noisy and active. Turned it off and it was deadly quiet. In the quick test I made I hardly noticed any difference in contrast with the DI on or off but I really can't tell with my screen samples being so small.

Then I read all the posts from this morning on the other units delivered. "I have a bad feeling about this Chewy!"
Not sure what the settings were other than high lamp, but both the RS3000 in the JVC booth at CES and the Wolf version were extremely quiet. They were showing 4K. Less noise than an RS600 on high lamp.
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post #619 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:26 PM
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The DI with our PrePro showed significant pumping and sometimes a form of sudden "clipping" sort of thing. (hard to explain, like a physical hysteresis)

We therefore turned it off and only tested native results.

JVC Germany left the DI off also when they made presentations for that reason.
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post #620 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Look, they have to fix it and as soon as they can. They have already proven that they will stop shipment in order to try to get it right. Not like other manufactures who don't admit it or do nothing about it. You can't leave the DI just sitting there they would have a huge uproar.

I would rather stick it out with a manufacture that is willing to fix it than one that just sticks their head in the sand because the are EXTREMELY ARROGANT! And I have owned and liked their product. Not naming names but I bet you can guess. Also, my Optima I have to ship in to get a FW fix, what a pain.
No, I understand that they have to/are addressing it. But I'm just speaking for my self: this launch has been a nail biter for me, and my whole point about my re-order thing/waiting was in the hopes that when it is right, I'll revisit.
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post #621 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Aztar35,

You know what guys say that over the years JUMPED in and purchased the 1st year of a New Car ???
To me this is really no different.
New technologies that will be ironed out over time if the 1st buyers are willing to hang Tough while that takes place.

Terry
Dad always told me: "Never buy the first model year of a new car design because there are always 'bugs' that do not present themselves until after the car has been purchased and driven in real-world conditions."

Maybe in two or three years JVC will finally get their act together and produce a line of 4K projectors that have all of the "bugs" and teething pains worked out PRIOR TO RELEASE. Because I for one can no longer afford to be an "early adopter testing guinea pig" for these multi billion dollar A/V companies at my own expense!
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post #622 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
The DI with our PrePro showed significant pumping and sometimes a form of sudden "clipping" sort of thing. (hard to explain, like a physical hysteresis)

We therefore turned it off and only tested native results.

JVC Germany left the DI off also when they made presentations for that reason.
I see. Thank you. I think what others here are describing is something else.
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post #623 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:32 PM
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Ok, what is the current status on the nx9/rs3000 projector. Great, good, bad or ugly?

Wasn't the DI disconnected at the shows from early last year? And the DI isn't functioning right now also? If the DI isn't working, then what was the problem with the units that caused the delay? How is it some units were produced last October and some in December? Is there a difference between those two manufacture period units?

Is it true that JVC has stopped production or deliveries again to address new or is it old issues? Is it hardware based? Or software based? These are expensive projectors and I'm very concerned what JVC is shipping as I don't have any experience or previous ownership of JVC products.

Is it too early to tell what the performance levels are? Do they need professional calibration to "fix" things? Or is the projector looking like it might be a "Lemon"?
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post #624 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by YesAnotherTweet View Post
[*]The fan on HDR mode is freaking loud. I was standing 7-feet away and I could still hear it. If this is normal I will have to hush box this bad boy. BTW, the fan completely shuts down on non-HDR to the point I cannot hear it right next to it.
You mean High Lamp Mode vs Low Lamp mode?
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post #625 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Not sure what the settings were other than high lamp, but both the RS3000 in the JVC booth at CES and the Wolf version were extremely quiet. They were showing 4K. Less noise than an RS600 on high lamp.
This is mostly straight out of the box. If there is another setting for the fan then I have not found it so I doubt I changed it by accident. The only other changes I made to the settings was turning off e-shift and C.M.D.
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post #626 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by loggeo View Post
I believe JVC will take care of the issue pretty soon. I am not worried. However, I need to ask. What is the process of getting a THX certification? How on earth did they miss it during their "extensive " tests?
I am sure its not easy at all, I am sure it cost a nice fee to put that on each box as well.
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post #627 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jmouse007 View Post

Maybe in two or three years JVC will finally get their act together and produce a line of 4K projectors that have all of the "bugs" and teething pains worked out PRIOR TO RELEASE.
I hope not that long and that it will be in short order. But as far as a stellar JVC product, go read my posts on the JVC X990 I had. I put that thing on a pedestal because it deserved to be there.
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post #628 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
You mean High Lamp Mode vs Low Lamp mode?
I think the lamp goes into High Mode when HDR is active and the fan goes into high mode as well. I have mine set to low lamp and when 1080p Blu-ray was playing it was silent. The second I played a UHD title, with HDR, the fan kicked on full blast.
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post #629 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Thanks, Terry. That's a good point for sure. And from our back and forth's and your posts in general, I know how much you love that RS4500. I can't say I blame you. I consider it a specialty item. From everything I've read about it, I don't think any of these JVCs can touch it. I personally believe it's not just the laser and the lens, but its processing too. As far as the RS4500's early dimming function, perhaps it was less effective then but at least it was was usable in not causing aberrations.

I hope this DI issue will be remedied soon.
RS3000 and RS4500 have the same lens and processors. The only difference is the RS3000 has new generation 4k D-ILA panels and the RS4500 has laser light engine. Other than that they are nearly the same electronics.

I am sure the DI will get fixed soon with the RS3000. As best I can tell Arrow-AV is quite pleased with the image he is getting. People are nitpicking on the pixel peeping patterns but honestly even they look much better than the other projector images of the same pattern.
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post #630 of 13950 Old 01-09-2019, 03:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by YesAnotherTweet View Post
I think the lamp goes into High Mode when HDR is active and the fan goes into high mode as well. I have mine set to low lamp and when 1080p Blu-ray was playing it was silent. The second I played a UHD title, with HDR, the fan kicked on full blast.
In hdr mode, try switching lamp to low and see if it stays in low when switching in and out hdr mode.. This was discussed in the other thread as a potential option but not tested.

The lamp setting was in the manual iris screen on the last gen, called advanced menu on the remote.

Last edited by Bytehoven; 01-09-2019 at 03:45 PM.
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