Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 239 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7141 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Thanks. When you see it on HDR content, does the PJ do the tonemapping or is the source doing the tonemapping?

Please could you answer all the questions (source, colorspace, bit depth, calibration used on the JVC, as well as gamut and gamma used). If you could report what's on the JVC info screen (HDR/SDR, colorspace, bit depth) that would be great.

I'm trying to see if we can isolate specific conditions that will trigger this, as clearly the same content played on two different sources doesn't, as s the case for Lucy here on the UB900 and on the HTPC.

The more precise we are, the easier it's going to be for JVC to reproduce, and the more likely we are to get a fix.

If you're not using the example I gave in Lucy, please provide another one where you see this (preferably UHD Bluray to make it easier to reproduce) with precise timecode.

Thanks!
Tone mapping is always enabled on the projector for HDR content. I don't have any external devices with built-in tone mapping capabilities. It would be interesting if it's something as straightforward as getting a white value that exceeds some threshold nits. If so you'd never see the effect on SDR content and whether you see it in HDR or not would depend on any mapping that is applied to the content before it gets to the projector.

I'll try UHD Lucy on the Xbox as well as the 4K streaming version on the Chromecast.
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post #7142 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 04:10 PM
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I don't care what the director intended, he's not here.
That's a great line. Made me chuckle.
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post #7143 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 04:18 PM
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I finally got my NX7 unboxed and installed today. It had V1.20 firmware on it, zero convergence issues and so far just from initial impressions I found myself just flipping through different content staring like a kid in the candy store. In low mode I was surprised at how bright it was for my 150" screen. I haven't installed the DCR lens yet, wanted to see if I could really tell a difference between with and without the lens.
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post #7144 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 04:24 PM
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The only problem with the zero edge screens there is very little room to be off with the lens shift and depending on how your projector is mounted over time gravity will win and then you may be readjusting your lens shift or projector. They now make the zero edge screens with 3 sizes of bezel a small, medium and large. I always try to sell the medium, a decent trade off between looks and functionality especially if you get into an anamorphic screen you will want that extra bezel. This is what I have my personal NX7 on. A zero edge medium bezel.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ajax-jp View Post
I did the exact same trip, in reverse today.
I started with Star Power and then went to Stereo East and I also asked the rep about the NX7, lol.

Couple interesting things the rep told me: JVC apparently had to switch shipping companies. He claimed that they had never experienced this much shipping damage in all of the years he'd been working for JVC combined. He said the change took place last week.
The other interesting thing, he said JVC was recommending 1.0 gain white screens.
The JVC setup was projected on an SI Slate 120".

NX9 looked pretty incredible. The contrast was fantastic, colors were vibrant and the motion was smooth. I didn't watch the NX5 for long as there were a ton of people in this room asking for the NX9 demos. What I saw still looked good though. The rep also noted that the NX5 can't upscale 720p. Not sure I had ever heard that before.

Then I went to Stereo East, more to take a look at screens than anything else. They had the Sony 285 setup with an SI 1.2 white and the 295 set up with the slate, so this wasn't an apples to apples comparison, but the 295 on slate definitely had better vibrance and contrast. The contrast on those 2 Sony's was really unimpressive by comparison. I had expected the 295 to be closer to the NX5 but it just wasn't there. It was better than the 285, but that also could've been the screen.
The color palette was definitely classic Sony, reminded me of my 40ES. It looks natural but muted.
Interestingly, they were really pushing the slate screens.
The other thing the sales guy said that seemed off was that I shouldn't go with a Zero Edge style screen and a JVC as they're hard to adjust for overshoot? I've never heard that before and it sounded like nonsense to me.

So.. to those that have these projectors, I currently have a 110" 1.0 gain white screen which I was looking to upgrade to something around 135" (assuming my room can handle it). Is white the way to go?
I assume there's no problem with zero edge style screens and JVC projectors; is that correct?

My room is a dedicated media room with full light control. I only occasionally want to watch things with the lights on, so ALR isn't a huge desire, but flexibility is flexibility.
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post #7145 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 04:44 PM
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I think I'd want the oppo to do the tone mapping here.
Markmon 1, I have been through the entire menu of the Oppo and nothing shows as tone mapping?
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post #7146 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
So are you definitely seeing the same horizontal overscan as me? I can’t figure out how to fix it. My installer said he will call JVC support.
I don't think he is. We all see faint gray bars on the sides of 16:9 content for the unused portion of the 17:9 panel but you shouldn't be seeing content there unless your aspect ratio setting is set to Zoom or you have an anamorphic mode enabled. With Anamorphic: Off and Aspect: Auto you should just be seeing faint gray/black bars there and the actual content will be 16:9.

Note: My RS2000 arrived with an anamorphic mode enabled which really confused me for a while. So just because you didn't enable an anamorphic mode doesn't mean it won't be on, but I suspect you've verified that by now.
Welp, I don’t have anamorphic enabled, my aspect is auto, and I definitely see content off the side of my 16:9 screen when the top and bottom are lined up to fill the screen. See the pictures I sent. So I guess I’ll see what jvc says.
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post #7147 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 05:28 PM
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As for the yellowing, I have noticed it on Netflix. One very prominent moment was when it does it's logo screen with the all white background and red text. There was a black screen prior to that and when the logo screen popped up, all the white was yellow for a brief second.

JVC settings were defaults out of the box.
XBOX One S settings were I think YUV 12 bit.

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post #7148 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caudio18 View Post
I finally got my NX7 unboxed and installed today. It had V1.20 firmware on it, zero convergence issues and so far just from initial impressions I found myself just flipping through different content staring like a kid in the candy store. In low mode I was surprised at how bright it was for my 150" screen. I haven't installed the DCR lens yet, wanted to see if I could really tell a difference between with and without the lens.
You will definitely see the difference with the DCR. Your candy store just has more candy!
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post #7149 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Caudio18 View Post
The only problem with the zero edge screens there is very little room to be off with the lens shift and depending on how your projector is mounted over time gravity will win and then you may be readjusting your lens shift or projector. They now make the zero edge screens with 3 sizes of bezel a small, medium and large. I always try to sell the medium, a decent trade off between looks and functionality especially if you get into an anamorphic screen you will want that extra bezel. This is what I have my personal NX7 on. A zero edge medium bezel.
My plan was to do 16:9.
Projector will be mounted with a Chief RPMA281 and JVC interface plate so it shouldn't move.
I'll grab the sizes of all of these and do some measurements to see what will work on my wall (and with my T1's). The other nice thing about the Zero Edge pro is the variety of sizes they come in.

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post #7150 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Hey everyone.

I was recently playing around with a friend's NX7 and another friends NX9 and I came across an image artifact/phenomenon that I was hoping you other NX owners could test as well.

I am actually seeing a drastic difference between the NX7 and the NX9.

Essentially what I am seeing on the NX7, is on scenes dark enough to trigger the Auto DI closing, bright highlight details are almost completely blown-out. On the NX9 I am seeing basically NO blow-out.

I have taken some screenshots from a good test scene for you to try on your projectors. I took these images from the UHD and tone-mapped them to SDR with madVR so that everyone will end up displaying the exact same image on their projectors.

What you need to do is open the image, and then look at it in manual iris mode, and then turn on Auto 2 and even Auto 1 iris, and watch for a couple seconds to see if all the detail in her dress blows out. The blow out doesn't happen instantly, it happens in a smooth transition over about 2 seconds as the iris starts to clamp down.

Settings to use:
High Bulb
Gamma 2.2

I have included both rec709 as well as rec2020 images so you can try testing it in SDR picture mode as well as with the rec2020 filter engaged on the NX7 and NX9.

I would also really love to see this tested on an NX5 as I have not gotten to test one. I know the iris on the NX5 is slightly different as there is no lamp iris, so maybe it will have a different result?

I assume, (but am not completely sure) that this is related to the reported Auto DI yellowing issue, but to me, the blow-out is way worse than any yellowing. It also does NOT happen whatsoever when closing the iris down manually, so as speculated, it seems to be a software gamma algorithm issue. I am just surprised that I have not seen anyone describe seeing blow-out from the auto iris, only yellowing which is why I am asking this.

Please report whether or not you see the blow-out occur and what model projector you have and *please!* include your firmware version.

Thanks!

Test images:
https://nicko88.com/misc/pics/jvctest/
Ok so I tested this out like you said, I can detect the iris clamping down just barely but I don’t see any change in detail in her dress. My nx5 is running 1.20

Hope this helps. Bob
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post #7151 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post
Ok so I tested this out like you said, I can detect the iris clamping down just barely but I don’t see any change in detail in her dress. My nx5 is running 1.20

Hope this helps. Bob
Thanks for testing it.

Hmm, that's interesting though. I hope anyone else can try this too.

Like I said, on my friends NX7, it produces a very noticeable artifact, where almost all of the detail in the dress blooms out and turns into basically a solid triangle (at least in the first pic). Where another friend's NX9 has no such artifact.

I wish I had taken pictures or a video of the blooming happening.

I hope at least a couple other people can try the images on their NXs.
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post #7152 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
Welp, I don’t have anamorphic enabled, my aspect is auto, and I definitely see content off the side of my 16:9 screen when the top and bottom are lined up to fill the screen. See the pictures I sent. So I guess I’ll see what jvc says.
Out of curiosity, when you adjust lens settings and use the built-in green alignment pattern, does it fill the same area as your 16:9 image or does it go even wider than that?
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post #7153 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Caudio18 View Post
The only problem with the zero edge screens there is very little room to be off with the lens shift and depending on how your projector is mounted over time gravity will win and then you may be readjusting your lens shift or projector. They now make the zero edge screens with 3 sizes of bezel a small, medium and large. I always try to sell the medium, a decent trade off between looks and functionality especially if you get into an anamorphic screen you will want that extra bezel. This is what I have my personal NX7 on. A zero edge medium bezel.
Hello. Which zero edge pro do you have? Pure white? Slate, etc... are u getting a great picture. I was thinking of getting an si pro pure white. Thx

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post #7154 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 07:54 PM
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Mike i get the same behavior - I believe I've seen it mentioned by several users in this thread
But if it was a projector problem, everyone should have the problem and that is not the case. Only time it should be be overscanning on each side is if you are using full panel width.
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post #7155 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
Welp, I don’t have anamorphic enabled, my aspect is auto, and I definitely see content off the side of my 16:9 screen when the top and bottom are lined up to fill the screen. See the pictures I sent. So I guess I’ll see what jvc says.
As I asked a couple days ago, can you please send content to the projector so it's overflowing off the edge, then bring up the info screen on the projector menu and photo that?

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post #7156 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
Welp, I don’t have anamorphic enabled, my aspect is auto, and I definitely see content off the side of my 16:9 screen when the top and bottom are lined up to fill the screen. See the pictures I sent. So I guess I’ll see what jvc says.


When you turn on the grid for adjustment, are you matching the left and right sides with the inner or outer bars?
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post #7157 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 08:18 PM
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I have 150" 2.40:1 slate 1.2 acoustic. Even though I can completely control lighting in the room, the back of the room opens up to my bar area for more a media room feel. I chose the 1.2 just to get a little more brightness for this type scenario. I went with the medium bezel for a little more forgiveness when I add the DCR lens.
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Originally Posted by colorado_freeskier View Post
Only complaint is that I have to run it in high altitude mode and when in the HDR setting the fan is much louder, but maybe once it is mounted in the home it won't be a problem as the projector will be farther away.
Update - I turned the lamp mode down to low and HDR fan noise is now the same as the other modes...the HDR effect is slightly lessened, however, I'm new to HDR and 4K so anything better than the 720p of my 12 year old projector is impressive.

Also, I hooked up an Apple TV 4K along a HDMI cable that can do 4K...images are stunning. Have a Panasonic UB820 coming in this week, so that will be interesting to compare to the ATV. Very happy with the purchase of the NX5 at this point. Can't wait to get this set up in the new house with upgraded screen. Picture is so good I sometimes find myself physically reacting to action on the screen. Once I get my post count up I'll post links to more video.
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post #7159 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 09:36 PM
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[quote=mattztt;57688514]If I were you I'd ditch the HDMI extender and get a good certified premium HDMI cable for about $20. HDMI over Cat6 is a compromise solution for distances that a standard HDMI cable cannot handle and even in those cases a fiber optic HDMI cable is probably a better solution for intermediate length runs of 25' to 75' in length as it's going to be cheaper than Cat6 while still being able to carry a full 18GB HDMI signal which Cat6 cannot do.


Unfortunately I’m stuck with the Cat 6 unless I want to tear up the walls I just fixed when they ran the wiring. Hopefully the new HDMI extender my installer has ordered (HDR10 capable unlike what he originally installed) will do the trick. Thanks for the feedback!
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post #7160 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
Tone mapping is always enabled on the projector for HDR content. I don't have any external devices with built-in tone mapping capabilities. It would be interesting if it's something as straightforward as getting a white value that exceeds some threshold nits. If so you'd never see the effect on SDR content and whether you see it in HDR or not would depend on any mapping that is applied to the content before it gets to the projector.

I'll try UHD Lucy on the Xbox as well as the 4K streaming version on the Chromecast.
@Manni01 : I see the strong yellow shift on Lucy at 1:30 when watching the UHD Blu-ray on the Xbox in HDR. The streaming 4K version is SDR and did not manifest the yellow shift either when watched via Chromecast or on the XBox.

It does seem to be related to the level of white being requested as there is very pronounced yellowing of the "Lucy" text at 1:30 but only after the text has fully faded in from a black screen which was preceded by small amount of white text. The iris should have already been fully clamped before the text started fading in and the text remains gray with no yellowing until it is at/near its maximum luminance at which point it shifts to yellow.

While doing these experiments I've found that the JVC really does not like you to be switching back and forth between different resolutions and SDR/HDR too much. At one point the screen went black on the Xbox like when it does an HDMI handshake for a different mode but it never came back. I switched to the Chromecast input and the screen was solid green. I had to power cycle the projector to get an image again. After a couple more input switches I got the black screen again but this time it recovered on its own eventually.
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post #7161 of 17733 Old 03-03-2019, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
@Manni01 : I see the strong yellow shift on Lucy at 1:30 when watching the UHD Blu-ray on the Xbox in HDR. The streaming 4K version is SDR and did not manifest the yellow shift either when watched via Chromecast or on the XBox.

It does seem to be related to the level of white being requested as there is very pronounced yellowing of the "Lucy" text at 1:30 but only after the text has fully faded in from a black screen which was preceded by small amount of white text. The iris should have already been fully clamped before the text started fading in and the text remains gray with no yellowing until it is at/near its maximum luminance at which point it shifts to yellow.

While doing these experiments I've found that the JVC really does not like you to be switching back and forth between different resolutions and SDR/HDR too much. At one point the screen went black on the Xbox like when it does an HDMI handshake for a different mode but it never came back. I switched to the Chromecast input and the screen was solid green. I had to power cycle the projector to get an image again. After a couple more input switches I got the black screen again but this time it recovered on its own eventually.
Thanks. There is some color variation on the text during the credits, but the most offensive yellowing/blooming is displayed when the picture fades in from black after the LUCY title. The water, at the centre of the screen, turns from yellow to its expected color over a couple of seconds. This is very distracting.

Again, it's not about the content being HDR or not. It's about the source and the calibration, i.e. where is the tonemapping done and what is the calibration used.

Watching the same UHD Bluray of Lucy in HDR, I get no blooming from the UB900 with the projector set to HDR but a lot of blooming with the HTPC doing the tonemapping (PJ set to SDR BT2020). If I set the HTPC to passthrough HDR and the PJ to the same calibration the UB900 uses when it lets the PJ doing the tonemapping, most of the blooming/yellowing goes away.

So please could you kindly answer the questions:

When you play Lucy from the xbox, what is the colorspace, colorimetry (Rec-709 or BT2020) and bit depth used, as well as the calibration selected on the PJ (gamut, gamma, and iris setting used)?
If you don't know the colorspace etc, please tell us what the JVC reports when you press INFO on the JVC remote (SDR or HDR, colorspace, colorimetry, bit depth)


We won't get this fixed if we can't pinpoint exactly the settings that cause this yellowing/blooming to occur.

When you watch the streaming version of Lucy in SDR, please look at your manual iris setting. It's probably a lot lower than when you watch in HDR. Try to open the iris fully (setting of 0), enable the DI on auto2, and tell us if the yellowing/blooming is still present or not. It shouldn't be there, but it's impossible to know if your iris is at -10 or below. If you watch the UHD Bluray in HDR and set the iris to -10 or below, most of the yellowing/blooming should go to.

The reason why many DI artifacts can be seen more easily in HDR is because most people tend to have the iris fully open in HDR. If you want to reduce the DI artifacts, reduce the manual iris setting. -6 should help, -10 should be bettter, -12 or less there should be little to no artifacts.

Thanks!
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JVC Autocal Software V12 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders

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post #7162 of 17733 Old 03-04-2019, 12:00 AM
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I think you're one of the few that uses it then.
Put the first "Kingsman" movie in and watch the parachute scene (I think starts around the 50 minute mark with out checking).
See if it stays together with CMD on high.

I would really be interested to hear what happens.
It starts right at 49:00 exactly. It looks great. What am I looking for here specifically?

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Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #7163 of 17733 Old 03-04-2019, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I'm fully frame matched (24 hz for 24fps) with CMD On high now. Panning scenes are smooth and the backgrounds are in focus not a blurry mess. I don't care what the director intended, he's not here. If I can improve upon his work I will.

You know, I've watched hundreds of interviews with directors in my time, and not once have I ever heard a director say, "yeah, we filmed in 24fps to give the film that added realism".
What I hear directors say is that they go to great lengths in talent, locations, sets, costumes, lighting, equipment, etc, to provide the audience with the most realistic and immersive experience.
If stroboscopic motion judder causes the viewer to be distracted and pulled out of the experience, then that is not what the director intended.
Likewise, if reducing motion artifacts using higher frame rates, frame interpolation, or other techniques increases realism for the viewer, then that IS what the director intended.
On the other hand, if these techniques reduce realism for a given viewer, then that is NOT what the director intended.
So it really comes down to the individual viewer and what is most realistic for him or her. Whatever it is, THAT is what the director intended. A good director never wants the FILM to get in the way of the STORY.
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post #7164 of 17733 Old 03-04-2019, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Caudio18 View Post
I have 150" 2.40:1 slate 1.2 acoustic. Even though I can completely control lighting in the room, the back of the room opens up to my bar area for more a media room feel. I chose the 1.2 just to get a little more brightness for this type scenario. I went with the medium bezel for a little more forgiveness when I add the DCR lens.
Hey, I was considering a slate 1.2 acoustic for a while, and I'm looking at roughly your screen size. My setup is also open to a bar area for an open plan feel! I'm still not decided (at all) on a projector or a screen. Would you mind sharing pics of your setup? (Especially with the lens installed )
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post #7165 of 17733 Old 03-04-2019, 12:41 AM
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I was pulling the trigger on the N7, preordered one and ready to pay. Then i've had a demo of N7 Vs Nx9. I'm really shocked on how good the 9 is. The N7 is a great machine but N9 ... i'm saving money right now. Perfect projector. Perfect.
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post #7166 of 17733 Old 03-04-2019, 01:44 AM
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Thanks. There is some color variation on the text during the credits, but the most offensive yellowing/blooming is displayed when the picture fades in from black after the LUCY title. The water, at the centre of the screen, turns from yellow to its expected color over a couple of seconds. This is very distracting.

Again, it's not about the content being HDR or not. It's about the source and the calibration, i.e. where is the tonemapping done and what is the calibration used.

Watching the same UHD Bluray of Lucy in HDR, I get no blooming from the UB900 with the projector set to HDR but a lot of blooming with the HTPC doing the tonemapping (PJ set to SDR BT2020). If I set the HTPC to passthrough HDR and the PJ to the same calibration the UB900 uses when it lets the PJ doing the tonemapping, most of the blooming/yellowing goes away.

So please could you kindly answer the questions:

When you play Lucy from the xbox, what is the colorspace, colorimetry (Rec-709 or BT2020) and bit depth used, as well as the calibration selected on the PJ (gamut, gamma, and iris setting used)?
If you don't know the colorspace etc, please tell us what the JVC reports when you press INFO on the JVC remote (SDR or HDR, colorspace, colorimetry, bit depth)


We won't get this fixed if we can't pinpoint exactly the settings that cause this yellowing/blooming to occur.

When you watch the streaming version of Lucy in SDR, please look at your manual iris setting. It's probably a lot lower than when you watch in HDR. Try to open the iris fully (setting of 0), enable the DI on auto2, and tell us if the yellowing/blooming is still present or not. It shouldn't be there, but it's impossible to know if your iris is at -10 or below. If you watch the UHD Bluray in HDR and set the iris to -10 or below, most of the yellowing/blooming should go to.

The reason why many DI artifacts can be seen more easily in HDR is because most people tend to have the iris fully open in HDR. If you want to reduce the DI artifacts, reduce the manual iris setting. -6 should help, -10 should be bettter, -12 or less there should be little to no artifacts.

Thanks!
If you pause the content during the yellowing, does the content remain on screen in yellow, or does it become white - ie is it that the colour shift is the "end result", or a transitory state shifted through as the DI and gamma are adjusted together? And if you at that point disable the DI, and then re-enable it, does the text go back to yellow or remain white?
If it remains on screen in yellow (ie this is a result, and not a transitory state), I'd be tempted to analyse that text using diffuser mode on the Discus to quantify exactly what the magnitude of the shift is. I'd then use the TPG in madvr in various patch sizes and stimulus levels to see at which point the grey axis shifts in this way.
The tighter you can define the test case the better progress will be. Once you have a static test (assuming there is a static test for this) it becomes much easier to figure out what is going on.

Of course if the yellow only exists as a transitory state, and not with static images, things are much more difficult.
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post #7167 of 17733 Old 03-04-2019, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by deltagamma View Post
You know, I've watched hundreds of interviews with directors in my time, and not once have I ever heard a director say, "yeah, we filmed in 24fps to give the film that added realism".
What I hear directors say is that they go to great lengths in talent, locations, sets, costumes, lighting, equipment, etc, to provide the audience with the most realistic and immersive experience.
If stroboscopic motion judder causes the viewer to be distracted and pulled out of the experience, then that is not what the director intended.
Likewise, if reducing motion artifacts using higher frame rates, frame interpolation, or other techniques increases realism for the viewer, then that IS what the director intended.
On the other hand, if these techniques reduce realism for a given viewer, then that is NOT what the director intended.
So it really comes down to the individual viewer and what is most realistic for him or her. Whatever it is, THAT is what the director intended. A good director never wants the FILM to get in the way of the STORY.
At the end of the day, these things are left as options because some people will prefer, some won't. I'm sure there is a lot to do with how folk are wired, which is probably part nature part nurture. And these differences are how these features like FI come into existing in the first place. I can't stand the effect from FI, and the other day I get a phonecall from my sister (who is very non-technical) asking me what is wrong with her new TV, that everyone moves funny. Sure enough, FI was the cause...
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post #7168 of 17733 Old 03-04-2019, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
If you pause the content during the yellowing, does the content remain on screen in yellow, or does it become white - ie is it that the colour shift is the "end result", or a transitory state shifted through as the DI and gamma are adjusted together? And if you at that point disable the DI, and then re-enable it, does the text go back to yellow or remain white?
If it remains on screen in yellow (ie this is a result, and not a transitory state), I'd be tempted to analyse that text using diffuser mode on the Discus to quantify exactly what the magnitude of the shift is. I'd then use the TPG in madvr in various patch sizes and stimulus levels to see at which point the grey axis shifts in this way.
The tighter you can define the test case the better progress will be. Once you have a static test (assuming there is a static test for this) it becomes much easier to figure out what is going on.

Of course if the yellow only exists as a transitory state, and not with static images, things are much more difficult.
I don't really care about the text, there are variations there but not as offensive as on real content.

The gamma shift always goes away if you disable the DI. For example, if you pause on any gamma artifact and open the menu, the iris opens up to the manual iris position, and there is neven any artifact in the picture itself. It is always caused by gamma manipulation that is not part of the picture itself. The blooming is usually worse when the DI opens, but you can see it when the DI stays in a fixed position, it's then just the gamma manipulation causing this. Part of this issue existing on older models. For example the gamma manipulation artifact can be seen on the e**** models using MI:Fall Out at 00:05:57. The car headlights are turned inot a poorly defined blob of white/yellow and the highlights are clipped. This happens even if the iris position isn't moving. It stays if you pause, but if goes away if you open the menu/disable the DI.

I honestly don't have the time to analyse further what is causing this. I'm trying to get a few users listing precisely the source, colorspace, colorimetry, HDR/SDR, bit depth and calibration used (gamut, gamma, manual iris setting) when they observe the issue, which no one has done yet.

Once we have more data, hopefully we'll be able to see a pattern. If we don't, then yes we might have to dig further into what exactly triggers this, but ideally I'd let JVC do this. If we can tell them "set a XBOX like this, play Lucy at 00:01:30 to reproduce", then hopefully they reproduce and fix. But if they can't reproduce, and it looks like if they use a standalone UHD Bluray player they can't, well then it's not going to be easy to resolve. I'd rather be able to list a mainstream source such as a XBOX rather than a HTPC because the combinations of OS, GPU, drivers, settings, players is just too much to ask JVC to match. Again it's not HTPC or madVR specific. An HTPC with madVR doesn't show the issue if you set HDR to passthrough for example. And it's not about the tonemapping itself, because as I understand it the XBOX doesn't tonemap and sends HDR to the PJ.

But until we get the exact info requested, we are not making any progress. I was hoping it would be easy to get a few reports from users, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe we'll have to create a separate thread to not clutter the owner's thread with this issue.

Many people are not seeing any problem either because it's not there, or because it doesn't bother them, or because the manual iris is low enough to minimize the issue when the DI is enabled.

I don't want this to be blown out of proportion. If it's present and you see it, it can be offensive, but it doesn't take away the quality of the picture and even with the DI disabled, the contrast is excellent.
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JVC Autocal Software V12 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
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Last edited by Manni01; 03-04-2019 at 02:49 AM.
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post #7169 of 17733 Old 03-04-2019, 05:19 AM
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I don't think several others have mentioned this. Almost everyone talking about it didnt realize the panel was 17x9 and was referencing it r
Ok – so guess what I’m seeing on all images is just the bordering due to panel
size you guys have mentioned-Auto gives large border and zoom does reduce it –
Surprised not mentioned more as its distracting so I have enabled masking all around
on my saved memory screens to eliminate-
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post #7170 of 17733 Old 03-04-2019, 05:47 AM
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If you want to check the yellowing with DI –
I found a file everyone can download and try –
Nasa demo –https://4kmedia.org/lg-nasa-hdr-4k-demo/

Around the 1:58 mark –
There is white lettering logo (Harmonic) in bottom left –
You can actually pause the image as well and turn DI on and off to see the yellowing-

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