Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 266 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7951 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I just had a chat with @Kris Deering regarding this and he says to think of these as being 2 different custom gamma curves, the Pana_PQ_HL being more optimal for media with a large HDR dynamic range, and the Pana_PQ_BL being better for media with a lesser HDR dynamic range.
I wish Kris would respond in the forum. My understanding was you would set the Panasonic and JVC HDR setting according to the nit level of your display. From what you are saying it is based more on what media you are viewing?? Now I'm really confused.

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post #7952 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Actually both the Pana_PQ_HL and Pana_PQ_BL work fine with the UB820.



I just had a chat with @Kris Deering regarding this and he says to think of these as being 2 different custom gamma curves, the Pana_PQ_HL being more optimal for media with a large HDR dynamic range, and the Pana_PQ_BL being better for media with a lesser HDR dynamic range. Wherein, for example the latter looks better with LUCY than the former. In other words, which is best will be media dependant





Further investigation is clearly warranted





Righto. Can’t wait to see!
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post #7953 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
The Pana_PQ_BL color profile works perfectly with the Panasonic UB820 I have just tested and confirmed this
Thanks for weighing in. I posted yesterday morning (soon after the v2.01 firmware upgrade was released) that the UB820 functioned perfectly with the NX7's new color modes, yet the arguments and controversy have persisted. It reminds me of when I was the first to post that the 3D glasses from previous generations were of the wrong polarization when used with the new series, but the validity of that still took ages to put to bed. I'm really beginning to understand how Rodney Dangerfield felt............
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post #7954 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Thanks for weighing in. I posted yesterday morning (soon after the v2.01 firmware upgrade was released) that the UB820 functioned perfectly with the NX7's new color modes, yet the arguments and controversy have persisted. It reminds me of when I was the first to post that the 3D glasses from previous generations were of the wrong polarization when used with the new series, but the validity of that still took ages to put to bed. I'm really beginning to understand how Rodney Dangerfield felt............


No respect!
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post #7955 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Thanks for weighing in. I posted yesterday morning (soon after the v2.01 firmware upgrade was released) that the UB820 functioned perfectly with the NX7's new color modes, yet the arguments and controversy have persisted. It reminds me of when I was the first to post that the 3D glasses from previous generations were of the wrong polarization when used with the new series, but the validity of that still took ages to put to bed. I'm really beginning to understand how Rodney Dangerfield felt............
No respect..... lol. I see what you’re saying. Yes I was a proclaimer that the polarization of the new panels might have changed based on the halo pattern being vertical vs horizontal.
I don’t doubt you one bit. The 9000 adds a 350 nit setting but both the 9000 and 820 share the 500 nit setting. All you can do is report your findings and continue to enjoy your NX7-820 combo. I thank you for your updates.
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post #7956 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 09:42 PM
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Be aware that size isn’t everything. As often is the case in camera lenses the bigger the glass doesn’t always mean the lens is better. It will no doubt pass more light which is commensurate with its larger aperture but to assume it is a better lens as far as mtf may be premature. Often the smaller aperture lens ends up being the sharper lens. It’s much more difficult to get great performance from a larger aperture lens and it usually results in a very costly lens. This may be the results here but to assume the larger size means a better lens may not be correct.
Edit: I’m not saying the NX9 lens isn’t good but I’m saying let’s look it over. Is it a great lens or has it been compromised to provide good performance and maximum light transmission?
It is a very good lens and yes it is definitely better than the lens in the 2000. And yes, it is very costly. Main reason the 3000 is a lot more expensive than the 2000.
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post #7957 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
Be aware that size isn’t everything. As often is the case in camera lenses the bigger the glass doesn’t always mean the lens is better. It will no doubt pass more light which is commensurate with its larger aperture but to assume it is a better lens as far as mtf may be premature. Often the smaller aperture lens ends up being the sharper lens. It’s much more difficult to get great performance from a larger aperture lens and it usually results in a very costly lens. This may be the results here but to assume the larger size means a better lens may not be correct.
Edit: I’m not saying the NX9 lens isn’t good but I’m saying let’s look it over. Is it a great lens or has it been compromised to provide good performance and maximum light transmission?
Would a bigger lens do better with better focus when using more lens shift than a smaller one? It feels like the bigger the lens, the further from the edge of the lens a shifted image might be.

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post #7958 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
My understanding was you would set the Panasonic and JVC HDR setting according to the nit level of your display. From what you are saying it is based more on what media you are viewing?? Now I'm really confused.
To clarify...

PANASONIC UB820:

Player Settings --> HDMI --> Advanced Settings --> HDR TV Type --> Select "Basic Luminance LCD and Projector"




PANASONIC UB9000:

Player Settings --> HDMI --> Advanced Settings --> HDR Display Type --> Select "Basic Luminance Projector"




JVC PROJECTOR:

Gamma --> Set to 2.2

Color Profile --> Set to either Pana_PQ_HL with higher dynamic range HDR media; or Pana_PQ_BL for lower dynamic range HDR media



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post #7959 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
I wish Kris would respond in the forum. My understanding was you would set the Panasonic and JVC HDR setting according to the nit level of your display. From what you are saying it is based more on what media you are viewing?? Now I'm really confused.
You can still use the Dynamic Range Adjustment slider if you want (I think this slider is what you meant by setting nit level) along with setting HDR Display Type to a Projector option.

When Kris referred to a slider control where the default middle position represented 350 nits, he was referring to the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. slider control that is only used for SDR/BT2020 output mode, not the HDR Dynamic Range Adjustment slider. He also said that you may at times need to adjust the slider based on content. But this was for SDR/BT2020 mode.

In order to properly use the new JVC color profiles for Panasonic players, you need to set the UB820 to HDR output mode, not SDR/BT2020.

- HDR output mode
- HDR Display type set to the Projector option in the UB820 (500 nits) or one of the two Projector options in the UB9000 (350 and 500 nits).
- HDR Optimiser set to ON.
- Dynamic Range Adjustment slider set to your preference or leave at default position.

Before the new JVC color profiles were added, you could use HDR Optimizer tone mapping in the Panasonic and Auto Tone mapping in the JVC in combination. But with the new color profiles you won't.

The new color profiles include an HDR gamma. I assume one gamma for 500 nits and the other for 350 nits. If you ever created custom curves using the Arve tool you did something similar by creating a 1000 nit curve or a 4000 nit curve. But with the Panasonic tone mapping to either 350 or 500 nits, your JVC only needs 350 and 500 nit HDR curves. It will never see content that exceeds this from either Panasonic player. In the same manner, JVC Auto-Tone mapping is not needed when using the Panasonic-specific color profiles in the JVC.

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post #7960 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
The new color profiles include an HDR gamma. If you ever created custom curves using the Arve tool you did something similar by creating a 1000 nit curve or a 4000 nit curve. But with the Panasonic tone mapping to either 350 or 500 nits, your JVC only needs 350 and 500 nit HDR curves. It will never see content that exceeds this from either Panasonic player. In the same manner, JVC Auto-Tone mapping is not needed when using the Panasonic-specific color profiles in the JVC.
A question: is it your feeling that the JVC's tone mapping of a 500 nit (HL) output from the UB820 would be superior to a custom gamma curve interacting with that same source? Am I correct that a custom curve will always be the same (with regards to picture tone, bright & dark levels) irrespective of what comes from the Panasonic, but the JVC will vary those values within associated gamma for the Panasonic-JVC color profile, depending on what the Panasonic sends? If not, would a custom gamma curve expected to be superior to, equal to or inferior to how the JVC will manage the Panasonic's output? Thanks, as always!
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post #7961 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
You can still use the Dynamic Range Adjustment slider if you want (I think this slider is what you meant by setting nit level) along with setting HDR Display Type to a Projector option.

When Kris referred to a slider control where the default middle position represented 350 nits, he was referring to the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. slider control that is only used for SDR/BT2020 output mode, not the HDR Dynamic Range Adjustment slider. He also said that you may at times need to adjust the slider based on content. But this was for SDR/BT2020 mode.

In order to properly use the new JVC color profiles for Panasonic players, you need to set the UB820 to HDR output mode, not SDR/BT2020.

- HDR output mode
- HDR Display type set to the Projector option in the UB820 (500 nits) or one of the two Projector options in the UB9000 (350 and 500 nits).
- HDR Optimiser set to ON.
- Dynamic Range Adjustment slider set to your preference or leave at default position.

Before the new JVC color profiles were added, you could use HDR Optimizer tone mapping in the Panasonic and Auto Tone mapping in the JVC in combination. But with the new color profiles you won't.

The new color profiles include an HDR gamma. I assume one gamma for 500 nits and the other for 350 nits. If you ever created custom curves using the Arve tool you did something similar by creating a 1000 nit curve or a 4000 nit curve. But with the Panasonic tone mapping to either 350 or 500 nits, your JVC only needs 350 and 500 nit HDR curves. It will never see content that exceeds this from either Panasonic player. In the same manner, JVC Auto-Tone mapping is not needed when using the Panasonic-specific color profiles in the JVC.
Thanks claw. This is very helpful, at least it is to me.

Once we have final and official confirmation, i.e., there are no more doubts or questions from anyone about how this works, perhaps it should be added to the front on this thread where the settings information is set forth.
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post #7962 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 11:16 PM
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Chad B. ... He noted that the HL (500 nit) option was superior to the BL (320 nit) option, as BL engages the color filter and reduces overall impact in the NX7. ...
This seems to clarify the statement in the jvc press release where it says “Which setting to choose depends on the user’s preference – the High Luminance Projector setting prioritizes image brightness; the Basic Luminance Projector setting prioritizes widest color gamut reproduction.”

So, is it more than just curves, with the fundamental difference between HL and BL settings being no filter, or filter, respectively? Or, is this not the case?
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post #7963 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 11:24 PM
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post #7964 of 20289 Old 03-16-2019, 11:45 PM
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This seems to clarify the statement in the jvc press release where it says “Which setting to choose depends on the user’s preference – the High Luminance Projector setting prioritizes image brightness; the Basic Luminance Projector setting prioritizes widest color gamut reproduction.” So, is it more than just curves, with the fundamental difference between HL and BL settings being no filter, or filter, respectively? Or, is this not the case?
I can't pretend to be an expert on this subject, but one difference is certainly the enabling of the color filter in BL and the associated loss of brightness. However, it's exceedingly hard for me to try to characterize how BL would appear on my NX7 if the UB9000 were in my video chain (instead of the UB820). I suspect that being able to have the option to remap to 350 nit would cause the NX7 to appear better with BL than trying to interface BL with the 500 nit signal from the UB820. I think that we'll have a better handle on this issue once there's some reporting from owners of the UB9000 with v2.01 firmware. I hope that they would A/B BL & HL viewed with many different sources (UHD BR & streaming). Ultimately, I think that this may turn out to be quite subjective, even for UB9000 owners.
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post #7965 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 12:56 AM
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Quick clip showing firmware update. Its 480 resolution because my cell phone was sitting on an end table in portrait mode. It took about 15 mins overall to update. I could hear the fan of the NX5 on during the update. What I didn't realize is it wouldn't automatically turn on when it was done, both LEDs would be off when it was done and I had to power it back up. Took less than a minute to get to the DILA screen after update.


As mentioned previously because there was some confusion a few posts up, the new Pana_PQ Color Profile is not selectable in HDR10 Picture Mode. You have to first select one of the open 6 User Picture Modes to find the new Panasonic Color Profiles. So here is another clip showing selecting open User Picture Modes of the NX5, which opened up the Pana_PQ_HL & Pana_PQ_BL Color Profiles. I re-labled two of the open User Picture Modes to match the Pana_PQ Color Profiles.

Both Pana_PQ Picture Modes should be set to a Color Temp of 6,500K w/ Gamma 2.2. Because Gamma is set to 2.2 in this Color Profile, the Auto Tone Mapping On/Off & Mapping Level slider is removed from the Gamma menu.

Again, 480 resolution because my phone was standing up in portrait mode Forgive me for I have sinned..

Not shown, but under the HDR Setting menu I changed the HDR10 Auto Select from the default HDR10 Picture Mode to my User 3 Picture Mode which was relabeled to Pana_PQ_BL, this way when the JVC sees an HDR10 signal from the Panasonic it will automatically go to that Picture Mode & Color Profile.

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post #7966 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
It's precisely the same identical chipset / video panel in both the JVC RS3000/NX9 and JVC RS2000/N7. Any difference in contrast is exclusively due to the different lenses, with the lens that features within the JVC RS3000/NX9 being slightly higher contrast.

However, I consider the jury to be out with respect to whether or not there is in reality a 20% difference in contrast performance between the JVC RS3000/NX9 and JVC RS2000/N7.
Thanks. I believe the larger lens would let through more light at max brightness, hence the better contrast ratio? Or is that thought simply "intuitive"?

Agreed that the 20% difference needs to be tested. The law of diminishing return applies to both high end audio and video, so even if it's say 10%, it might be worth it to the lucky few. Having said that, to me anyway, $10k seems an outrageous amount for *THAT* lens. On second thought, who am I to judge the worthiness of anything in this crazy hobby.

I would admit that it is "pretty," reminding me of my humongous Canon 85 1.2 , with sharpness and PQ that is sans-pareil.

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post #7967 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 02:01 AM
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Can someone who have tried this, please tell me if the "synergy effect" Panasonic/JVC is better than only using the JVC ?

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post #7969 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 02:37 AM
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YES

Yes it is better, or yes you can tell me ? Can you please elaborate

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post #7970 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 02:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes it is better, or yes you can tell me ? Can you please elaborate
Yes, the combination of Panasonic plus JVC with respect to HDR tone-mapping is better than only using the JVC

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post #7971 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 03:07 AM
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Yes, the combination of Panasonic plus JVC with respect to HDR tone-mapping is better than only using the JVC

Thanks Would you say it is a logic combination, or a process that could be done only in the JVC with the same result ?

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post #7972 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
It's precisely the same identical chipset / video panel in both the JVC RS3000/NX9 and JVC RS2000/N7. Any difference in contrast is exclusively due to the different lenses, with the lens that features within the JVC RS3000/NX9 being slightly higher contrast.

However, I consider the jury to be out with respect to whether or not there is in reality a 20% difference in contrast performance between the JVC RS3000/NX9 and JVC RS2000/N7. I will be measuring a bunch of units so will be able to offer multiple data points towards confirming this one way or the other. But even if the difference is 20%, whilst this is indeed better, so worth mentioning, because the perception of contrast is approximately logarithmic, most people will be hard pressed to tell the difference as far as black levels are concerned. In other words, a contrast difference greater than 20% is usually required to yield a perceivable difference in black levels.

And the THX aspect is just sprinkles

Hence, really the primary benefits / differences boil down to: (1) the eShift 8K; and (2) the superior lens, as being what you are really paying for with the extra 10,000 bucks

Someone asked what the differences were between the two models beyond the better lens and 8K e-shift, I replied with objective differences in the specs.

I was trying to be polite when I said I wasn't sure what THX brings, and I said why. To me, it's not worth anything. I never used it with any model I owned that had it (for example the rs50). But I know that to some, especially those who don't calibrate, get a calibrator or even want to find best OOTB settings, it can have some value. So I was only trying to remain objective (and polite). By the way you suggested yourself that THX was a way to achieve SDR Rec-709 with the filter, so that's an example when it can be useful if the native gamut is slightly understatured even in rec-709 without the filter and the user doesn't want to upload a custom color profile.

Given the little we know at the moment, everything else has to be proven, including the fact that the lens is indeed better (I'm not saying that it's not, I do believe it is as the rs4500 lens is better and it's supposed to be the same one).

I honestly don't know if the better native on/off specs comes from the binning of some elements (panels for example), the lens itself, or even the assembly process. For example, I'm not saying it's the case and I don't believe it is, but the rs3000 could have brighter corners, hence higher contrast in the centre of the panels when measuring the specs, at the expense of contrast at the periphery.

Sure we don't even know if there is a difference at all, but historically, unlike dynamic specs which are often fantasist (or they should tell us how they produce them), JVC have never lied about native contrast specs, so I have no reason to suspect this here. They did deliver 80,000:1 native on my rs2000, so until trusted owners or calibrators provide enough measurements to prove that the rs3000 doesn't reach 100,000:1 native I'll believe it's the case.

I'm sure that if/when you manage to get enough working units from each model (only teasing ), you will contribute to providing answers as to where differences - if any - come from between the models, and whether the lens is the only reason for the increase in the native on/off specs. But for now, all we have is the specs.

Regarding how much of the difference 80,000:1 vs 100,000:1 makes, I agree that it shouldn't be much but 1) I didn't say it was and 2) I'm much more interested in the difference with the iris fully open than with the specs iris fully closed. On the rs2000, although I don't see a contrast difference when content is on the screen, I do see a slight difference in black levels between 30,000:1 (iris fully open on the rs2000) and 36,000:1 (iris closed a few clicks) in my bat cave. The fade to black works for a little bit longer before the black floor becomes visible. Until the DI is fixed/improved, I would take any increase in native on/off, especially at the iris fully open position for HDR.

So until we know how the specs translate into reality, and especially how the rs3000 measures iris fully open vs the rs2000, I really have no idea whether this small increase in the specs is significant or not, even if it most likely won't be for most, including myself once we get a working DI.

Again, that wasn't my point. I didn't say that any of the objective differences you had left out in your reply were significant, I only replied to the question of the OP (before I saw your answer by the way). Hopefully we can leave it there?

Thanks.
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post #7973 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
To clarify...

PANASONIC UB820:

Player Settings --> HDMI --> Advanced Settings --> HDR TV Type --> Select "Basic Luminance LCD and Projector"

Spoiler!



PANASONIC UB9000:

Player Settings --> HDMI --> Advanced Settings --> HDR Display Type --> Select "Basic Luminance Projector"

Spoiler!



JVC PROJECTOR:

Gamma --> Set to 2.2

Color Profile --> Set to either Pana_PQ_HL with higher dynamic range HDR media; or Pana_PQ_BL for lower dynamic range HDR media

Spoiler!


Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
You can still use the Dynamic Range Adjustment slider if you want (I think this slider is what you meant by setting nit level) along with setting HDR Display Type to a Projector option.

When Kris referred to a slider control where the default middle position represented 350 nits, he was referring to the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. slider control that is only used for SDR/BT2020 output mode, not the HDR Dynamic Range Adjustment slider. He also said that you may at times need to adjust the slider based on content. But this was for SDR/BT2020 mode.

In order to properly use the new JVC color profiles for Panasonic players, you need to set the UB820 to HDR output mode, not SDR/BT2020.

- HDR output mode
- HDR Display type set to the Projector option in the UB820 (500 nits) or one of the two Projector options in the UB9000 (350 and 500 nits).
- HDR Optimiser set to ON.
- Dynamic Range Adjustment slider set to your preference or leave at default position.

Before the new JVC color profiles were added, you could use HDR Optimizer tone mapping in the Panasonic and Auto Tone mapping in the JVC in combination. But with the new color profiles you won't.

The new color profiles include an HDR gamma. I assume one gamma for 500 nits and the other for 350 nits. If you ever created custom curves using the Arve tool you did something similar by creating a 1000 nit curve or a 4000 nit curve. But with the Panasonic tone mapping to either 350 or 500 nits, your JVC only needs 350 and 500 nit HDR curves. It will never see content that exceeds this from either Panasonic player. In the same manner, JVC Auto-Tone mapping is not needed when using the Panasonic-specific color profiles in the JVC.
Very helpful posts from both of you - thanks! But, inevitably, a couple of follow-up questions :

1. Arrow, you have "Basic Luminance" Projector selected in *both* the UB-820 and UB-9000. This raises the question of why this is the case, and what, if any, the difference is, between Basic Luminance selected in the UB-820 and UB-9000.

2. And this leads to the question of when and why one would select the "High Luminance" option in the UB-9000.

3. It has been spoken of that the UB-820 offers tone-mapping to 500 nits, while the UB-9000 offers tone-mapping to 500 nits and also 350 nits. How do these ideas relate to the Basic and High Luminance options selections in these 2 Projectors?

4. Looked at another way, there are 4 combinations here, with 2 Display options available in the Panasonic, and 2 Color Profile Options available in the JVC. What would be the rationale in selecting a given combination to use?

Thanks again!

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post #7974 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Yes, the combination of Panasonic plus JVC with respect to HDR tone-mapping is better than only using the JVC
A little over a week ago I had posted that tone mapping in both devices subjectively appeared to provide a superior image to tone mapping in EITHER the Panasonic UB820/9000 or by use of JVC Auto Tone Mapping, but I think that your answer may now be a source of confusion. Could you please clarify your opinion, based on the following choices for those who have downloaded v2.01 and have the UB820/9000:

1. Turn on the Panasonic Optimizer and use Picture Mode HDR10 (with or without the BT2020 filter) and enable JVC's Auto Tone Mapping
2. Turn on the Panasonic Optimizer and use a Custom Picture Mode with one of the 2 new Panasonic-JVC Color Profiles (Auto Tone Mapping disabled)

Thanks!
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post #7975 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docrog View Post
I can't pretend to be an expert on this subject, but one difference is certainly the enabling of the color filter in BL and the associated loss of brightness. However, it's exceedingly hard for me to try to characterize how BL would appear on my NX7 if the UB9000 were in my video chain (instead of the UB820). I suspect that being able to have the option to remap to 350 nit would cause the NX7 to appear better with BL than trying to interface BL with the 500 nit signal from the UB820. I think that we'll have a better handle on this issue once there's some reporting from owners of the UB9000 with v2.01 firmware. I hope that they would A/B BL & HL viewed with many different sources (UHD BR & streaming). Ultimately, I think that this may turn out to be quite subjective, even for UB9000 owners.
Questions definitely remain. The BL setting on a NX5 would not use a color filter as it doesn’t exist. So is the BL setting just a lower nit curve?

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post #7976 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Willie View Post
My first foray into acoustically transparent screens was spandex, white over black. It was dull and didn't have any pop in comparison to the Seymour Center Stage XD I am now using. And I am pretty sure there are now better AT solutions than the Seymour XD tech of 7 years ago. If you're are gonna' skimp on screen, don't spend on a great projector, cause' really you aren't getting a great projector in that scenario. A little like having a great performance vehicle without being able to open it up and let it rock the highway.
Thanks Willie. I will go with the Seymour UF AT material. I was just wondering about spandex as some really rave about how great it is as a screen material. Of course I want the best picture quality for the JVC projector. Any other suggestions for DIY AT screen material anyone?

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post #7977 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
Very helpful posts from both of you - thanks! But, inevitably, a couple of follow-up questions :

1. Arrow, you have "Basic Luminance" Projector selected in *both* the UB-820 and UB-9000
Correct

All of these JVC projectors are 'Basic' as in not high luminance. 1,800 - 2,200 lumens is not high luminance, hence you should select 'Basic Luminance'. Furthermore, the luminance of the projectors is a constant irrespective of whether you use the UB820 or UB9000, hence the selection should be the same in both instances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
This raises the question of why this is the case, and what, if any, the difference is, between Basic Luminance selected in the UB-820 and UB-9000.
In short, there isn't any. They are identical

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
2. And this leads to the question of when and why one would select the "High Luminance" option in the UB-9000.
When your projector is high luminance

JVC seemingly has not provided guidelines regarding what qualifies as 'high luminance' but IMO this would be in the order of circa 5000+ lumens

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
3. It has been spoken of that the UB-820 offers tone-mapping to 500 nits, while the UB-9000 offers tone-mapping to 500 nits and also 350 nits. How do these ideas relate to the Basic and High Luminance options selections in these 2 Projectors?
Think of it as being 2-part tone-mapping. Part 1 is the selection of your particular type of projector with respect to the Panasonic Blu-Ray Player, namely either "Basic Luminance" or "High Luminance" with the UB9000, and "Basic Luminance" with the UB820 (because this is the only option for projectors). The Panasonic Blu-Ray Player will adjust its tone-mapping accordingly. And Part 2 is the selection of either Pana_PQ_HL (= 500 nits) or Pana_PQ_BL (= 350 nits) color profile with respect to the JVC projector; wherein, think of these as being 2 custom gamma curves with differing clipping points. These will overlay the tone-mapping being carried out by the Panasonic Blu-Ray Player; with the Pana_PQ_BL (= 350 nits) also making use of the BT.2020 color filter with JVC projectors which have it, namely the JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 and RS3000/NX9, but not the RS1000/NX5/N5 because this does not have the color filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
4. Looked at another way, there are 4 combinations here, with 2 Display options available in the Panasonic, and 2 Color Profile Options available in the JVC. What would be the rationale in selecting a given combination to use?
I've kinda already answered this in my answer to the previous question...

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post #7978 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Questions definitely remain. The BL setting on a NX5 would not use a color filter as it doesn’t exist. So is the BL setting just a lower nit curve?
Bingo!

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post #7979 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 07:31 AM
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Ok sill waiting for my. Nx9, still have an oppo 203, is panna ub9000 that much better?
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post #7980 of 20289 Old 03-17-2019, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Correct

All of these JVC projectors are 'Basic' as in not high luminance. 1,800 - 2,200 lumens is not high luminance, hence you should select 'Basic Luminance'. Furthermore, the luminance of the projectors is a constant irrespective of whether you use the UB820 or UB9000, hence the selection should be the same in both instances.


In short, there isn't any. They are identical


When your projector is high luminance

JVC seemingly has not provided guidelines regarding what qualifies as 'high luminance' but IMO this would be in the order of circa 5000+ lumens


Think of it as being 2-part tone-mapping. Part 1 is the selection of your particular type of projector with respect to the Panasonic Blu-Ray Player, namely either "Basic Luminance" or "High Luminance" with the UB9000, and "Basic Luminance" with the UB820 (because this is the only option for projectors). The Panasonic Blu-Ray Player will adjust its tone-mapping accordingly. And Part 2 is the selection of either Pana_PQ_HL (= 500 nits) or Pana_PQ_BL (= 350 nits) color profile with respect to the JVC projector; wherein, think of these as being 2 custom gamma curves with differing clipping points. These will overlay the tone-mapping being carried out by the Panasonic Blu-Ray Player; with the Pana_PQ_BL (= 350 nits) also making use of the BT.2020 color filter with JVC projectors which have it, namely the JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 and RS3000/NX9, but not the RS1000/NX5/N5 because this does not have the color filter.

Many thanks for this, Nigel. This is the way it seemed to me, but thought I might be missing something important. Apparently not.

So if I'm understanding you right, then with respect to HDR performance with the new JVC Projectors, the UB-9000 can't do anything the UB-820 can't also do! It may have the enhanced audio options, better build, etc., but with respect to HDR, if one doesn't need or want those things, then the UB-820 will perform just as well for HDR with our Projectors.

And all the 'hoopla' in the JVC announcements, touting the UB-9000, with no mention of the UB-820, can then be seen primarily as marketing for the UB-9000.

That would be good news indeed for those of us not wanting to spend more for the UB-9000 in search of the best picture on our JVC Projectors.

Don
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