Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 357 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10681 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
From time to time I'm seeing an unusual artifact in content - the brighter portions of the scene have "static" in them like a television with the tuner set to an unused frequency. I've seen it in the UHD of La La Land and the Blu-ray of Unbreakable (both played on a Panasonic UHD-9000) and a streaming episode of The Walking Dead (YouTube TV/Chromecast) so its present in a variety of sources and content types. I did not notice it last night during Game of Thrones (granted, there was little brightly lit content) nor during a YouTube stream of the Falcon Heavy rocket launch from a couple weeks ago (lots of bright content).

Is this a common artifact? Does it have a name? Any thoughts on the possible cause?
If you saw it on all content, then it could be an artifact of the screen or the projector or settings on the projector. if you only see it part of the time, then it is the source.
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post #10682 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cnebrask View Post
Did the free bulb come directly from JVC? I submitted my rebate about 3 weeks ago, received shipping notification today.
Yes, direct from JVC. 3 weeks is faster than expected turnaround time.
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post #10683 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by edub90 View Post
Can you post some pics of a some movie shots?
Happy to oblige [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Of which projector? JVC RS3000/NX9 or JVC 1000/N5? I currently have both

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Haha that’s right. NX5 please and thank you &#x1f642;

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Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
From time to time I'm seeing an unusual artifact in content - the brighter portions of the scene have "static" in them like a television with the tuner set to an unused frequency. I've seen it in the UHD of La La Land and the Blu-ray of Unbreakable (both played on a Panasonic UHD-9000) and a streaming episode of The Walking Dead (YouTube TV/Chromecast) so its present in a variety of sources and content types. I did not notice it last night during Game of Thrones (granted, there was little brightly lit content) nor during a YouTube stream of the Falcon Heavy rocket launch from a couple weeks ago (lots of bright content).

Is this a common artifact? Does it have a name? Any thoughts on the possible cause?
I’ve been seeing a lot of artifacts on bright scenes as well. Try to turn down enhance in MPc settings and see if that helps. The default on mine was 5 and when I turned it to 1 I saw a huge difference.
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post #10684 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by davidahn View Post
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Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
How long does your projector take to turn on? I timed mine and it takes 3 minutes exactly, which seems crazy. Also, I have a trigger to lower my screen when the projector starts to draw power, and that takes 17 seconds, which is also annoying.
Haven't timed, seems like about 20-30 sec to JVC DILA logo.
That doesn’t help. I’m talking about the time until it can display live video. Again, mine is 3 minutes from a cold start. A bit quicker for some reason if it was only recently turned off. Please let me know if this is normal.
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post #10685 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
That's a good analogy but there's a key difference. Unlike Raw DSLR Images, HDR10 has a well-defined EOTF (ST.2084 PQ) that the image is supposed to follow from black to diffused white. It's only in the tone mapping of highlight that "preferences" come into play, and you can't follow the "Director's Intent" if your display is significantly dimmer than the mastering display.

There is a "report" ST.2390 that recommends the practice to be followed for the tone mapping but it's not a Standard.
Good point, Dominic. I understand in theory what you're saying, but there would still hopefully be some means, from a practical standpoint, to display a reference image or pattern to guide making the various adjustments, even if by definition our projectors can't display a fully accurate image, because of brightness and dynamic range limitations.

I understand how properly displaying the highlights, or more accurately finding an acceptable compromise, is a particular challenge, but I also think that addressing blacks and shadow details comes into play as well. Reports of problems are just as much about blacks being crushed, the image being too dark overall, for many movies, etc., and this in fact is where I want to confirm that I'm displaying things properly, or at least as close as is possible, to what it's 'supposed' to look like.

On the other hand, since each situation is different, and since any result is by definition a compromise, then there might not be a formal way to have an objective, reference standard.

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post #10686 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
That doesn’t help. I’m talking about the time until it can display live video. Again, mine is 3 minutes from a cold start. A bit quicker for some reason if it was only recently turned off. Please let me know if this is normal.
What version is your firmware?
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post #10687 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
Good point, Dominic. I understand in theory what you're saying, but there would still hopefully be some means, from a practical standpoint, to display a reference image or pattern to guide making the various adjustments, even if by definition our projectors can't display a fully accurate image, because of brightness and dynamic range limitations.

I understand how properly displaying the highlights, or more accurately finding an acceptable compromise, is a particular challenge, but I also think that addressing blacks and shadow details comes into play as well. Reports of problems are just as much about blacks being crushed, the image being too dark overall, for many movies, etc., and this in fact is where I want to confirm that I'm displaying things properly, or at least as close as is possible, to what it's 'supposed' to look like.

On the other hand, since each situation is different, and since any result is by definition a compromise, then there might not be a formal way to have an objective, reference standard.
Have you actually checked that your projector follows the PQ curve? The actual performance may not follow exactly what's "expected" from the curve loaded, especially in the near black region. Also, BT.2390 actually includes tone mapping for the near black region to account for display's non-ideal black level, but that feature is not implemented in Arve's Tool.
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post #10688 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Have you actually checked that your projector follows the PQ curve? The actual performance may not follow exactly what's "expected" from the curve loaded, especially in the near black region. Also, BT.2390 actually includes tone mapping for the near black region to account for display's non-ideal black level, but that feature is not implemented in Arve's Tool.
How would I do that? I have the RS400, using Custom Curves from Arve.

(And incidentally, I loaded your 500sc curve, which plotted quite close to mine in Arve's software, only mine was actually just a tad brighter. I'll try them both out, but so far, the slight added brightness on mine, without clipping, seems a tad better.)

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post #10689 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
That doesn’t help. I’m talking about the time until it can display live video. Again, mine is 3 minutes from a cold start. A bit quicker for some reason if it was only recently turned off. Please let me know if this is normal.
No, that's not normal. He gave you the time to the D-ILA logo because that seems to be variable. Once that logo comes up it should only be 10-15 seconds before it switches to your video source. For me it's about 55 seconds to the D-ILA logo which I believe to be the expected start-up time.
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post #10690 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
How would I do that? I have the RS400, using Custom Curves from Arve.
Arve's curves do not include black compensation. If you post the curve you use (preferably in jgd format) I can "apply" the black compensation for you.


Quote:
(And incidentally, I loaded your 500sc curve, which plotted quite close to mine in Arve's software, only mine was actually just a tad brighter.
That's not surprising. The overall brightness is governed by the diffuse white level (BW in Arve's Tools) which you can vary to achieve your desired brightness. My 500sc curve is brigher than the 500hc curve but is not a bright curve compared to the "low nits curves" that I have posted.

However, these curves should have brighter highlights than curves meant for 1200 or 4000 nit masters.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-29-2019 at 08:01 AM.
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post #10691 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
That doesn’t help. I’m talking about the time until it can display live video. Again, mine is 3 minutes from a cold start. A bit quicker for some reason if it was only recently turned off. Please let me know if this is normal.
What version is your firmware?
I updated to the latest firmware, whatever that is. I’m not near the projector, but I think it’s 1.21. Whatever the new firmware is, there’s only been one update.
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post #10692 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Arve's curves do not include black compensation. If you post the curve you use (preferably in jgd format) I can "apply" the black compensation for you.
To avoid further threadjacking (sorry to all!), I'll just pm you with my email address, where it will be easier to exchange files and information.

Thanks!

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post #10693 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by abinav555 View Post
Thanks. That means the bt.709 is indeed causing issues for HDR on my shield.
Could be. But if you haven't gotten new HDMI cables in a while, I recommend Monoprice's 48 Gbps cables. It only comes in 1.5 and 3' lengths, so I had to use their couplers for a couple of places. Flawless performance, they will go as high as your bandwidth needs. I tried brand new 27 Gbps cables from Fry's first, and my Apple TV would sync up but the screen would go black for a few seconds at a time randomly. None of that with the Monoprice 48 Gbps ones.

If you need a balun, Monoprice also makes great baluns that also carries at least 4K/60Hz SDR 4:4:4 and HDR 4:2:2 signals flawlessly - with the right HDMI cables, of course. They run hot, so I'm going to put extra heat sinks on them using thermal pads. I'll have to turn the balun off when not using the theater, too; even with no signal, they stay hot if you leave the pair connected. I'll connect them to a switched output on my power conditioner and have to remember to power it off when I'm done with the theater. (Sadly, the Marantz AV7704 doesn't have switched power outlets like some older receivers I've had.)

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post #10694 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 09:14 AM
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Zoom Vs Native

To fill my 16:9 screen with a 4K native input signal i must optical zoom out the image so that a blacked sx and dx portion is off the screen. To fill the Jvc panel i have to use the software zoom and optical zoom in the image to fill the screen.
What do you guys suggest for better performance? Better to lose side portion of the panel but mantain the native resolution or use the Jvc scaling to fill the panel? What are pro and con?
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post #10695 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
That doesn’t help. I’m talking about the time until it can display live video. Again, mine is 3 minutes from a cold start. A bit quicker for some reason if it was only recently turned off. Please let me know if this is normal.
I apologize for trying to help. I'm not at home so I can't give you exact times, and time to logo is what many have posted (do a thread search for more data).

It is a mystery why it's so variable... ambient temps? Anyway, if everything else works flawlessly, why not get in the habit of warming it up a bit before you expect to use the theater? Pop up some popcorn, get your matching Snuggies for a comfortable showing. I feel like we may be making mountains out of molehills.

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post #10696 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
To fill my 16:9 screen with a 4K native input signal i must optical zoom out the image so that a blacked sx and dx portion is off the screen. To fill the Jvc panel i have to use the software zoom and optical zoom in the image to fill the screen.
What do you guys suggest for better performance? Better to lose side portion of the panel but mantain the native resolution or use the Jvc scaling to fill the panel? What are pro and con?
I use native for 1.85:1 and 1.78:1 content as I'm not a fan of cropping material. I use zoom for AR's 1.9:1 and wider. More light and no scaling issues I can see.
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post #10697 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
To fill my 16:9 screen with a 4K native input signal i must optical zoom out the image so that a blacked sx and dx portion is off the screen. To fill the Jvc panel i have to use the software zoom and optical zoom in the image to fill the screen.
What do you guys suggest for better performance? Better to lose side portion of the panel but mantain the native resolution or use the Jvc scaling to fill the panel? What are pro and con?
It all depends on your degree of finickiness; I prefer to maximize my brightness and the use of my panel to 1:1 pixel accuracy. If you use any keystone correction at all, your 1:1 is off anyway.

On another note, if your PJ is at the max zoom end of the range, we're 30-50% brighter than at the tele end (I haven't seen specific numbers on the NX series). I found out most anamorphic lenses don't work at this max zoom distance (not enough glass to cover the whole beam spread), but OTOH you only get back a max of 30% brightness with A-lenses, possibly 25%, so being at max zoom w/o A-lens may be better than at the tele end with an A-lens d/t 1:1 pixel mapping and no optical issues.

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post #10698 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by davidahn View Post
It all depends on your degree of finickiness; I prefer to maximize my brightness and the use of my panel to 1:1 pixel accuracy. If you use any keystone correction at all, your 1:1 is off anyway.
It seems to me that using software zoom to fill the panel plus optical zoom to fill the screen gives me better light but i lose something on detail, i suspect because of the software zoom/scaling.
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post #10699 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
From time to time I'm seeing an unusual artifact in content - the brighter portions of the scene have "static" in them like a television with the tuner set to an unused frequency. I've seen it in the UHD of La La Land and the Blu-ray of Unbreakable (both played on a Panasonic UHD-9000) and a streaming episode of The Walking Dead (YouTube TV/Chromecast) so its present in a variety of sources and content types. I did not notice it last night during Game of Thrones (granted, there was little brightly lit content) nor during a YouTube stream of the Falcon Heavy rocket launch from a couple weeks ago (lots of bright content).

Is this a common artifact? Does it have a name? Any thoughts on the possible cause?
This was discussed a few post earlier and in its own dedicated post: The culprit in most cases is Contrast and Motion Enhance. The fix is as follows:

1. Turn down contrast to zero (i think the default is 7 on these PJs)

2. Turn off motion enhance, turn on low latency - this is really the key fix.

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post #10700 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
It seems to me that using software zoom to fill the panel plus optical zoom to fill the screen gives me better light but i lose something on detail, i suspect because of the software zoom/scaling.
The users on here with anamorphic lenses don't have any issues with detail loss, and that scaling is far more pervasive than the panel fill.

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post #10701 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by davidahn View Post
I apologize for trying to help. I'm not at home so I can't give you exact times, and time to logo is what many have posted (do a thread search for more data).

It is a mystery why it's so variable... ambient temps? Anyway, if everything else works flawlessly, why not get in the habit of warming it up a bit before you expect to use the theater? Pop up some popcorn, get your matching Snuggies for a comfortable showing. I feel like we may be making mountains out of molehills.

Ok, and thanks for trying to help. I'm just looking at specific times. I want to know if what I'm experiencing is typical or if there might be a manufacturing defect in my projector. Sure, the slow startup isn't the end of the world if it otherwise works fine. But 3 minutes is excessive. I'm hoping a future firmware update will fix it. And the 17 seconds before my screen lowers is a problem. It's the kind of thing that will confuse other family members who want to use the projector but rarely do. You press the power button on the remote and nothing happens for so long that I will be getting called before they realize that it did come up after all.
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post #10702 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
The users on here with anamorphic lenses don't have any issues with detail loss, and that scaling is far more pervasive than the panel fill.
Sorry since english is not my language i don't get your suggestion: i don't have the possibility to use anamorphic lenses (i know they're great ... and expansive), so the suggestion is to use zoom feature to fill the panel or not?
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post #10703 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
Sorry since english is not my language i don't get your suggestion: i don't have the possibility to use anamorphic lenses (i know they're great ... and expansive), so the suggestion is to use zoom feature to fill the panel or not?
I would suggest zooming and do so myself.

What I was saying is that the scaling needed for use with an anamorphic lens doesn't seem to lose any detail so there isn't reason for the scaling needed to fit the panel to lose detail either.

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post #10704 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
From time to time I'm seeing an unusual artifact in content - the brighter portions of the scene have "static" in them like a television with the tuner set to an unused frequency. I've seen it in the UHD of La La Land and the Blu-ray of Unbreakable (both played on a Panasonic UHD-9000) and a streaming episode of The Walking Dead (YouTube TV/Chromecast) so its present in a variety of sources and content types. I did not notice it last night during Game of Thrones (granted, there was little brightly lit content) nor during a YouTube stream of the Falcon Heavy rocket launch from a couple weeks ago (lots of bright content).



Is this a common artifact? Does it have a name? Any thoughts on the possible cause?
Do you mean this:
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post #10705 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 10:46 AM
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Here's hoping members posting here are aware of the source of content being screened. For example, La La Land was shot on film (flat with Super 35, right?). Not only that, but you are only getting part of the frame since the aspect is 2.55:1. Finally, I believe there was a 2K DI. This does not make for reference 35mm in the way that Leon is.


There likely aren't too many on here with more than 150 UHD releases so far, so it's not that difficult to get familiar with the look of digital versus anamorphic 35mm versus flat 35mm, etc. Then we get into the quality of the transfer work. There are a handful of releases to avoid including the early Bourne trilogy, T2, Oblivion, and likely a few others for various reasons.


Do check out The Avengers 4K for an example of digital motion photography from before the Arri Alexa advanced. Pretty cool! Glass 4K is a good example of today's reference for digital. As for analog film, well, Leon is amazing. Try Groundhog Day for 35mm flat.
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post #10706 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 10:46 AM
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Hope you're right about MadVR fixing it! I have uncompressed (well, no more than the Blu-ray) rips of UHD Blu-rays, no reencoding/extra compression. Playing on Infuse Pro 5.

I recall one forum member having problems with banding on ATV with SDR material when ATV set to HDR, fixed by turning on "Match Dynamic Range." I already have SDR by default w/ Match Dynamic Range and Match Frame Rate.
If you're running things through your AVR, try by-passing it, just to eliminate that as the cause.
What was the specific time and disc of Blue-Planet II, if I can get it for a good price, I'll try it on my set up and see what happens.
I have my HTPC connected directly to the projector and for audio I use a HDMI/DP converter to the AVR.
My AVR is quite old, so I am forced to do this.
HTPC is set at 2160p _ RGB _ 12bit _ out-put range is set 0-225.
I think most set theirs to 8bit and let MadVR upconvert it, but I'm getting good results with 12, so I leave it there.

I have a UB900 and when I watch "National Parks Adventure" there is one scene where the sky has a bit of banding, where no matter what I do, I can't set the Panasonic player to get rid of it, so it may be in the source.
The HTPC with MadVR reduces it a lot, at least to the point where it's tolerable.
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post #10707 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 10:56 AM
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Some measurements and thoughts on the NX5 would be greatly appreciated.
Would be great to get a good comparison between a NX5 and a 540U.
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post #10708 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 11:23 AM
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Could be. But if you haven't gotten new HDMI cables in a while, I recommend Monoprice's 48 Gbps cables. It only comes in 1.5 and 3' lengths, so I had to use their couplers for a couple of places. Flawless performance, they will go as high as your bandwidth needs. I tried brand new 27 Gbps cables from Fry's first, and my Apple TV would sync up but the screen would go black for a few seconds at a time randomly. None of that with the Monoprice 48 Gbps ones.



If you need a balun, Monoprice also makes great baluns that also carries at least 4K/60Hz SDR 4:4:4 and HDR 4:2:2 signals flawlessly - with the right HDMI cables, of course. They run hot, so I'm going to put extra heat sinks on them using thermal pads. I'll have to turn the balun off when not using the theater, too; even with no signal, they stay hot if you leave the pair connected. I'll connect them to a switched output on my power conditioner and have to remember to power it off when I'm done with the theater. (Sadly, the Marantz AV7704 doesn't have switched power outlets like some older receivers I've had.)


Hey David I’m looking for an hdmi cable from my devices to my processor. For instance a Panasonic UB820>Marantz 8805. Would these work? https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=31229 I don’t have a Nx9. I do have a Nx7 on preorder though. This is the only cable I see on the site that has 48Gbps. It doesn’t say 60P, 4:4:4 either.


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post #10709 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 12:20 PM
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Great info!
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post #10710 of 14946 Old 04-29-2019, 12:37 PM
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Both.

The Panasonic will tone map the bright highlights above 350/500 nits depending on Projector type selected, and the JVC sees HDR with 350/500 nit metadata and completes the tone mapping.

MaxDML value will be 350/500, and MaxCLL will be a value less than or equal to 350/500 depending on the original MaxCLL value.

It will work the same with the UB820 except that the JVC will always get HDR with 500 nit metadata from the UB820.




Update: Corrected Basic Projector target nit from 300 to 350.
So what should i set the UB-820 Screen type to if i Run a NX5. In the 820 we dont have the custom settings.

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