Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 368 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11011 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 10:14 AM
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OK...here's something I haven't seen addressed. On all the UHD-DVD and Netflix 4K presentations that are encoded in Dolby Vision, the resulting images are muted...colors look dull to the point of being unwatchable. (NX9 unit)



And it seems to be a variable issue from content source to content source....so it would be difficult to address via calibration / memory. I would think (ie: hope) that any 4K FP display lacking in the DV feature would have adequate compensatory capability....and / or certainly any content that utilizes DV wouldn't penalize a FP display. That does not seem to be the case....and it's quite a bit frustrating at this price point.



Has this been discussed previously? Of course what with PJs lacking Dolby Vision support, some loss of image dynamics might be expected...but it seems too severe IMO.

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post #11012 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jmeitz View Post
I was in the same boat. I spoke with Jeff from AccucalAV and he directed me to save my money and buy the NX5 over the NX7. He has calibrated a bunch of these, but for my setup he said the difference would be very small and to save the money. Couldn’t be happier.
well you saved yourself some cash to move to another project
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post #11013 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
OK...here's something I haven't seen addressed. On all the UHD-DVD and Netflix 4K presentations that are encoded in Dolby Vision, the resulting images are muted...colors look dull to the point of being unwatchable. (NX9 unit)



And it seems to be a variable issue from content source to content source....so it would be difficult to address via calibration / memory. I would think (ie: hope) that any 4K FP display lacking in the DV feature would have adequate compensatory capability....and / or certainly any content that utilizes DV wouldn't penalize a FP display. That does not seem to be the case....and it's quite a bit frustrating at this price point.



Has this been discussed previously? Of course what with PJs lacking Dolby Vision support, some loss of image dynamics might be expected...but it seems too severe IMO.
I don't know what you are talking about.

Dolby Vision looks fine on my UHD Blu-rays and Apple TV streaming. It looks just as good as HDR10 content as long as the metadata is correct. If it isn't then it requires some playing around with the HDR sliders to get it looking good. However I haven't seen muted colors.
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post #11014 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dandlj View Post
Will it also automatically switch to high lamp?


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You would need to specify that in your color profile. Just name it, round out the settings you want. and then when PJ detects HDR it switches to that profile you rounded out with the settings including Lamp Mode to High (because you set it that way in the profile settings, iit remembers them)

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post #11015 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
OK...here's something I haven't seen addressed. On all the UHD-DVD and Netflix 4K presentations that are encoded in Dolby Vision, the resulting images are muted...colors look dull to the point of being unwatchable. (NX9 unit)



And it seems to be a variable issue from content source to content source....so it would be difficult to address via calibration / memory. I would think (ie: hope) that any 4K FP display lacking in the DV feature would have adequate compensatory capability....and / or certainly any content that utilizes DV wouldn't penalize a FP display. That does not seem to be the case....and it's quite a bit frustrating at this price point.



Has this been discussed previously? Of course what with PJs lacking Dolby Vision support, some loss of image dynamics might be expected...but it seems too severe IMO.
Not a projector problem, if only happens with Dolby Vision titles. Sounds like a setup problem, either in the source or the projector.
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post #11016 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Awesome to hear!

Yeah, autocal is pretty great and doesn't have to be scary. I recommend anyone who has the opportunity to try it, should, even if all you have access to is a spyder5.

Just make sure you back up your INIT file that the program spits out after your first calibration run.
I have a spyder pro but am hesitant to dive in, as im not an expert by any stretch in color metering.

what part do you face toward the screen? lol

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post #11017 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by smhunter1983 View Post
I have a spyder pro but am hesitant to dive in, as im not an expert by any stretch in color metering.

what part do you face toward the screen? lol
Well the point of Autocal is that it's automatic.

The software walks you through it and you just press a couple buttons. You don't have to know anything specifically.

You face the Spyder toward the lens and you will find that it will have you mount the spyder on a tripod about half way between your lens and screen.

The program will read your spyder and tell you if you have it too close or too far away. Also, I recommend pointing the spyder so that you can see the light reflection circle from the spyder right above or below the projectors lens. That way you know you have it facing the lens as well as you can.

There is a thread for autocal and a really good resource if you search google for "jvc autocal v11"
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post #11018 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by smhunter1983 View Post
I have a spyder pro but am hesitant to dive in, as im not an expert by any stretch in color metering.



what part do you face toward the screen? lol


Haha the part that is uncovered after taking off the cover. The one with perforations.

Make sure you save the init file. I backed mine to cloud and local Nas just to be safe.

Run it in log mode first just to see how off the PJ really is

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post #11019 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Just make sure you back up your INIT file that the program spits out after your first calibration run.
If you don't already have one, sign up for a free OneDrive / GoogleDrive / Dropbox, heck even all three, for an offsite backup!
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post #11020 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I don't know what you are talking about.

Dolby Vision looks fine on my UHD Blu-rays and Apple TV streaming. It looks just as good as HDR10 content as long as the metadata is correct. If it isn't then it requires some playing around with the HDR sliders to get it looking good. However I haven't seen muted colors.

Too ambiguous to be much help there.....some more detail as far as "HDR slider adjustments" might be more helpful. Even with that, individual adjustments for different sources and content? That would suck.


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Not a projector problem, if only happens with Dolby Vision titles. Sounds like a setup problem, either in the source or the projector.

While I can see where a DVD Player that features Dolby Vision capability might require set up, how does a FP Display that does not support Dolby Vision be tweaked to do so? As I stated, there doesn't seem to be any real discussion over the issue.

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post #11021 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Too ambiguous to be much help there.....some more detail as far as "HDR slider adjustments" might be more helpful. Even with that, individual adjustments for different sources and content? That would suck.
It may be more an issue of titles that provide HDR metadata vs titles that do not. The former should only require a one-time setup of adjusting the HDR sliders to taste (the manual actually covers this as well as I think it can be covered). The latter will require more manual intervention on a case-by-case basis.

Quote:
While I can see where a DVD Player that features Dolby Vision capability might require set up, how does a FP Display that does not support Dolby Vision be tweaked to do so? As I stated, there doesn't seem to be any real discussion over the issue.
There's no conversation about it because Dolby Vision metadata is something that is added on top of whatever other metadata is present and is only presented to Dolby Vision-capable displays. For a display that doesn't support DV - including all projectors - there is nothing to distinguish a DV title from a non-DV title. Put another way, DV has no effect on a non-DV display.
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post #11022 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
OK...here's something I haven't seen addressed. On all the UHD-DVD and Netflix 4K presentations that are encoded in Dolby Vision, the resulting images are muted...colors look dull to the point of being unwatchable. (NX9 unit)



And it seems to be a variable issue from content source to content source....so it would be difficult to address via calibration / memory. I would think (ie: hope) that any 4K FP display lacking in the DV feature would have adequate compensatory capability....and / or certainly any content that utilizes DV wouldn't penalize a FP display. That does not seem to be the case....and it's quite a bit frustrating at this price point.



Has this been discussed previously? Of course what with PJs lacking Dolby Vision support, some loss of image dynamics might be expected...but it seems too severe IMO.
If you're watching ATV4K Netflix 4K DV, bear in mind Apple convert the DV to HDR10 for output internally, and they output for many titles bogus metadata that changes frequently (in contravention of the relevant specs). This could be affecting your viewing with any tone mapping that is using the metadata.
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post #11023 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 01:26 PM
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If you closely read my prior post you would have seen that using that combination WAS one of the many that I "auditioned". My assessment was not centered around the potential desirability of the wider BT2020 color gamut, only on the optimum combination with regards to white clipping. As far as I was able to critique, the dual tone mapped combination with the HDR color profile provided a more cohesive image than using the UB820 without the Optimizer in conjunction with the JVC in HDR Auto tone mapping with BT2020 color profile. I guess that it boils down to: to each, his own.
It seems that you guys are talking about two different things:
1) Optimizer OFF on the UB820
2) Color filter ON on the JVC (BT2020)

@docrog , did you really see less white clipping with the color filter OFF (HDR vs BT2020), optimizer ON for both?
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post #11024 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 01:57 PM
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So I got my lamp today. About four weeks after I mailed.

Thank you JVC


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post #11025 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 02:00 PM
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Nice seeing tech progress like this and looking forward to when JVC can maintain this type of image and bring the contrast back to prior models
This is exactly what I'm waiting for. 160,000:1 native contrast with 4K and all the other bells and whistles. Next year? Perhaps. But I think it will take them two more years to achieve that kind of contrast. We'll see.
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post #11026 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bathes2051 View Post
It seems that you guys are talking about two different things:
1) Optimizer OFF on the UB820
2) Color filter ON on the JVC (BT2020)

@docrog , did you really see less white clipping with the color filter OFF (HDR vs BT2020), optimizer ON for both?
It's been a really long time since I did the comparison of that one particular scene, but, yes, that combination seemed (subjectively) to demonstrate the least amount of white clipping.
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post #11027 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
If you're watching ATV4K Netflix 4K DV, bear in mind Apple convert the DV to HDR10 for output internally, and they output for many titles bogus metadata that changes frequently (in contravention of the relevant specs). This could be affecting your viewing with any tone mapping that is using the metadata.
Not even Radiance DTM is able to rescue some titles on Netflix (played with Samsung K8500 or Shield). Especially darker scenes are a murky flat mess.

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post #11028 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
You right because the third time I was watching 4K movie. So are you telling me that more than likely we got to ship our units back to JVC ?

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That's what i have heard so far. Unless, of course, you have a local Jvc service where you can drive your projector.
2.05 didn’t fix mine completely but did make much less blue bars. Also it didn’t carry over to hdmi 2. They said I need a replacement &#x1f615; what a pain in the ass.
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post #11029 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 03:34 PM
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If you're watching ATV4K Netflix 4K DV, bear in mind Apple convert the DV to HDR10 for output internally, and they output for many titles bogus metadata that changes frequently (in contravention of the relevant specs). This could be affecting your viewing with any tone mapping that is using the metadata.
bobof

Have you noticed that Netflix seems to be sending "proper"? metadata for DV titles now?

It used to be Netflix was sending either 4000/1000 or nothing for metadata. Now the metadata seems to be correct on all the recent titles I have watched. I haven't checked to see if they fixed the old titles that were wrong but the new ones at least have been correct and are not changing constantly like before.

I think it is only Netflix that has fixed the issue as iTunes still seems like it might just be defaulting to generic values.
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post #11030 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jmeitz View Post
I was in the same boat. I spoke with Jeff from AccucalAV and he directed me to save my money and buy the NX5 over the NX7. He has calibrated a bunch of these, but for my setup he said the difference would be very small and to save the money. Couldn’t be happier.


This was my thoughts as well, I put the extra money towards an atmos upgrade. I’m thrilled with my nx5

Last edited by ultra 150 pilot; 05-06-2019 at 05:22 PM.
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post #11031 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 05:46 PM
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2.05 didn’t fix mine completely but did make much less blue bars. Also it didn’t carry over to hdmi 2. They said I need a replacement &#x1f615; what a pain in the ass.

So firmware 2.05 is out ? So JVC said you need a replacement ?

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post #11032 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cmatthes1 View Post
2.05 didn’t fix mine completely but did make much less blue bars. Also it didn’t carry over to hdmi 2. They said I need a replacement &#x1f615; what a pain in the ass.

So firmware 2.05 is out ? So JVC said you need a replacement ?
A 2.05 exists if JVC support sends it to you. Doesn’t fix the yellowing I don’t think.
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post #11033 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 06:03 PM
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Too ambiguous to be much help there.....some more detail as far as "HDR slider adjustments" might be more helpful. Even with that, individual adjustments for different sources and content? That would suck.





While I can see where a DVD Player that features Dolby Vision capability might require set up, how does a FP Display that does not support Dolby Vision be tweaked to do so? As I stated, there doesn't seem to be any real discussion over the issue.
Using a RS 2000, I’ve also noticed that DV titles steamed via ATV from Netflix have a dark, murky look to them. This is on high lamp mode.

I haven’t played much with the ATV settings much nor have I adjusted the RS2000 except for some of the settings in the beginning posts.

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post #11034 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Too ambiguous to be much help there.....some more detail as far as "HDR slider adjustments" might be more helpful. Even with that, individual adjustments for different sources and content? That would suck.





While I can see where a DVD Player that features Dolby Vision capability might require set up, how does a FP Display that does not support Dolby Vision be tweaked to do so? As I stated, there doesn't seem to be any real discussion over the issue.
Who said anything about tweaking a projector to support DV? Projectors can't do that, but it still should show the movie in HDR10 and if set up properly and no player problems, colors will not be wrong. What is your source for the Dolby Vision content? Apple TV has had known issues with streaming DV titles? Streaming DV titles on my RS640 looks fine. Do not have my RS3000 yet to check, but many people here do have a 3000.
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post #11035 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by satfam View Post
Using a RS 2000, I’ve also noticed that DV titles steamed via ATV from Netflix have a dark, murky look to them. This is on high lamp mode.

I haven’t played much with the ATV settings much nor have I adjusted the RS2000 except for some of the settings in the beginning posts.
Apple TV problem, not projector problem.
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post #11036 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 06:40 PM
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Using a RS 2000, I’ve also noticed that DV titles steamed via ATV from Netflix have a dark, murky look to them. This is on high lamp mode.
The metadata sent out is wrong.. it is fixed at 4000 nits. Amazingly on some shows 1 or 2 episodes will have the correct metadata.

You need to manually boost the picture tone up several notches on these episodes with bad 'defaults' metadata
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post #11037 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 06:41 PM
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I received my lamp today sent in the paperwork about 3 weeks ago.

Nice work jvc!
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post #11038 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 06:47 PM
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I received my lamp today sent in the paperwork about 3 weeks ago.

Nice work jvc!
Sent mines in on Saturday. Hopefully mines show up by the end of the month.
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post #11039 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
If I were to read what Mike wrote, I might come across thinking this as well, but it's not really true. The NX5 and NX7 are essentially the same except the NX7 adds an HDR color filter that can provide 100% DCI color space. I think most folks do not use this filter because it cuts 30% or so light when in place. I certainly dont use it.

The NX7 has an additional iris. Both have lens iris that works either by being manually set by the user or as a dynamic iris dimming automatically on darker scenes to improve black performance. The NX7 adds a lamp iris that helps increase contrast while reducing light output a little bit better than the lens-only iris on the NX5. The NX7 panel supposedly is higher contrast even without the lamp iris being used. I'm not sure how much this is going to be noticeable.

The NX5 is rated at 1800 lumens while the NX7 at 1900 lumens. However, this is probably not a noticeable difference. And unit to unit variance with lamps will vary by 300 or so lumens so I'd consider this just marketing hype. JVC themselves has indicated that their measurements are rounded. So maybe average measurements on a group of NX5 is 1800 (some 1830, some 1820, some 1770 etc). Average on NX7 1900 (some 1860, 1880 etc) and they basically just round so you get 1800 and 1900 lumens.

To me, I'd summarize it more like this. The NX5 and NX7 are the same except the NX7 has an additional lamp iris where if you use this you may gain contrast at expense of light output, and the NX7 adds a color filter, which I would never use but some might for HDR. Only useful for those with small screens.

I have said it a few times but I think the NX5 is enough to be better than a sony 695ES. With JVC's improved motion and calmer picture than in the past, these are no longer features that benefit sony over jvc. The areas of difference between the NX5 ($6000) and 695ES ($10000) are:

JVC = better on/off contrast, better black floor
Sony = Reality creation for better upscaling and video processing
JVC = better HDR tone mapping if you just rely on the projector to tone map HDR.

Honestly that's about it.
Thanks for taking the time to help provide some good insights

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post #11040 of 12892 Old 05-06-2019, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Apple TV problem, not projector problem.
Not really an AppleTV problem either. It is really more of a DolbyVision problem.

DolbyVision isn't supported by projectors. If you had a DV compatible flat screen the output from AppleTV would work fine. There is no spec for converting DV to HDR10. Streaming doesn't have to include HDR10 metadata with DolbyVision content.

If DolbyVision was certified for home projection then Projectors could actually play DV content correctly. But unfortunately it isn't so there is no real solution.

UHD Blu-ray content is suppose to include HDR10 metadata on all discs, even DolbyVision. Some do some don't. Disney is notorious for not supplying correct HDR10 metadata.

About the only real solution is the one that MadVR is taking where they just say screw it and calculate their own tone maps on the fly on a frame by frame basis. No metadata needed.

Apple would have a killer product if they just licensed or bought MadVR and included it built into AppleTV for the next gen. But that ain't happening either.
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