Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 39 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1141 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
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post #1142 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Interesting to have different contrast in high vs low lamp, I don't get why. Is this testing with colour profile = off?

This is un calibrated with custom1 high and low lamp mode, D65/Rec709 with the settings written down. MAX zoom


Also why you get more contrast in High lamp is that you have more brightness and you can turn the iris down "more" to get the same light output as in low setting, then higher contrast.

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Last edited by Dj Dee; 01-11-2019 at 02:21 PM.
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post #1143 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Wha’d they change to the fan?

Anyway, glad you’re bringing that up Mike. I think we’re all on a roller coaster of emotions on this thread (myself included) and it’s good that there are some positive things occurring.

I wish we’d get more than your hints though.
The first showing of the 4500 took place in a small room with a bunch of people and multiple projectors running. The room got hot and the 4500 fan ramped up. From that, the JVC got a reputation for being very noisy. JVC did some adjustments to the fan programming.

Every single person that came to see my 4500 all commented on the fan and not in a bad way. All of them said that they expected the fan to be much louder, based on what they read here. Now I am able to keep my room cool and my fan never ramped up. I used medium and on medium it was quieter than the E-shift series in high.
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post #1144 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 10:28 AM
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So what happens to all who jumped over the cliff and committed suicide..
I'm just glad people stopped jumping over lazy dogs.
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post #1145 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The Panny 820 has Netflix and Amazon Prime Video apps and those apps take advantage of the Auto Tone Mapping as well. In fact, you have separate Auto Tone Mapping settings for UHD discs and streaming apps like Netflix and Amazon Prime Video. Netflix, which is the only streaming service I use, looks GREAT on the Panny 820. IMHO it is a waste of resources feeding a 4K HDR Projector with streaming quality video. I do prefer to purchase the physical disc. But that's me as I know a lot people here do feed their projectors with HTPC + MadVR and they love the results.
So for YOUR usage, it works great. But I don't use the optical discs for my 4k UHD, I rip them to hard drive and enjoy the same full quality without the hassle of swapping physical discs and suffering FBI warnings and commercials I can't skip. My equipment room for my theater is not convenient, but I don't need access to my blu ray player because all media is available at my fingertips from my seat in the theater. And I DO happen to enjoy watching content that is available on Netflix and Amazon because most of what I watch on those will never be available on blu ray and I won't restrict myself to only one kind of media just because it is the best quality. I also watch a few cable TV shows and even some sports now and then, so having those other options for things like PSVue or my HDHomeRun antenna feeds is also of high importance to me.

And since tone mapping is also of critical importance to me with a 150" wide scope screen, the only device that fits my above needs (works with external media devices) and will work, other than the JVC, is the Lumagen Pro.

My point is not to argue that your combination works for you, but rather to point out that the panny 820 with a projector is NOT the same as a projector that can accept any input and tone map the output. And it isn't the same as a MadVR setup either, for the same reasons. And while the Lumagen can do all this and more, it is an expensive addon that is well outside many people's budget after they buy a projector.

I am a fan of Sony projectors, they just don't fit my needs, and getting them to fit my needs costs way too much money. But I'm happy that your combination works for your use case, and I have absolutely nothing against your choices.
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post #1146 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wombats View Post
I've considered cancelling my NX7 pre-order like 5 times now and every time there is some reason why I decide to wait it out a little longer.

This morning I wake up and there is new firmware...

Looking forward to fresh ADL numbers. Not expecting it to beat higher priced laser projectors; just hoping it is back to JVC standards.
From what I have seen they are very close above 0, when compared to the higher priced laser projectors.
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post #1147 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
This is uncelebrated with custom1 high and low lamp mode, D65/Rec709 with the settings written down. MAX zoom


Also why you get more contrast in High lamp is that you have more brightness and you can turn the iris down "more" to get the same light output as in low setting, then higher contrast.
You didn't do that though, you used same iris setting and yet the numbers are higher for just changing low lamp to high lamp (and quite a big difference). That's a little bit odd. I don't think native contrast shouldn't care what the lamp is set to.

Can you do the same test with high and low lamp with colour profile off high bright without adjusting the PJ RGB at all (it will be very wrong for colour). The contrast should be identical for high vs low. Then adjust RGB to get D65 correct at 100% - contrast should still be very close (but might change a little). If the contrast in low / high lamp with colour profile off is the same it would indicate some brightness is being given away by the CMS setup maybe (perhaps needs autocal tables fixing up).

Maybe. lol
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post #1148 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post
Mike, do you believe (or know) if JVC will be updating the remaining units to verify that the non-borked DI FW is present on all future units that ship?
I'm sure that they will ship any US units with the new firmware.
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post #1149 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
After the update v1.16 I did some new measurements. Why I measure lower contrast with full open iris earlier I have no answer to.
The new here is probe closer to the projector.
With my Klein K10A with just diffusor.


Low lamp mode
iris open 25996:1
iris -7 47948:1
iris -15 121990:1
Ansi Contrast 249:1


High lamp mode
iris open 26658:1
iris -7 62466:1
iris -15 134856:1
Ansi Contrast 249:1
Very nice measurements sir!

I will be providing mine shortly!

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post #1150 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The Panny 820 has Netflix and Amazon Prime Video apps and those apps take advantage of the Auto Tone Mapping as well. In fact, you have separate Auto Tone Mapping settings for UHD discs and streaming apps like Netflix and Amazon Prime Video. Netflix, which is the only streaming service I use, looks GREAT on the Panny 820.
Really? I'd have to stab myself in the eyes every time I watch something off Amazon Prime or Netflix on the 820 as it can only play back all that lovely UHD WGC 24p content at 60p - there is no native 24p playback of streamed content.
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post #1151 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
After the update v1.16 I did some new measurements. Why I measure lower contrast with full open iris earlier I have no answer to.
The new here is probe closer to the projector.
With my Klein K10A with just diffusor.


Low lamp mode
iris open 25996:1
iris -7 47948:1
iris -15 121990:1
Ansi Contrast 249:1


High lamp mode
iris open 26658:1
iris -7 62466:1
iris -15 134856:1
Ansi Contrast 249:1
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Interesting to have different contrast in high vs low lamp, I don't get why. Is this testing with colour profile = off?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
You didn't do that though, you used same iris setting and yet the numbers are higher for just changing low lamp to high lamp (and quite a big difference). That's a little bit odd. I don't think native contrast shouldn't care what the lamp is set to.

Can you do the same test with high and low lamp with colour profile off high bright without adjusting the PJ RGB at all (it will be very wrong for colour). The contrast should be identical for high vs low. Then adjust RGB to get D65 correct at 100% - contrast should still be very close (but might change a little). If the contrast in low / high lamp with colour profile off is the same it would indicate some brightness is being given away by the CMS setup maybe (perhaps needs autocal tables fixing up).

Maybe. lol
@bobof I made precisely the same observation when @Dj Dee told me the measurements. However, this is by no means the first time that I have come across contrast measurements changing with light output settings, where for example with the SONY laser projectors, when you lower the laser level setting the contrast reduces... Go figure!


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post #1152 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
James, I made precisely the same observation when Didrik told me the measurements. However, this is by no means the first time that I have come across contrast measurements changing with light output settings, where for example with the SONY laser projectors, when you lower the laser level setting the contrast reduces... Go figure!
I wasn't nit-picking - I'm not doubting that he measured it it was more interest in how it is so
A few possibilities which seem reasonable:
1) they both had calibrated white points for D65 and there is for some reason much more green energy in lamp spectra in low than high, so it had to be reduced using RGB sliders resulting in a lower peak brightness
2) the CMS has something layered ontop of the user settings (like factory autocal tables, or something else) that is reducing the amount of panel gamma being used in low lamp
3) they weren't in the same modes or calibrated so the high vs low readings have different RGB panel values being displayed.
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post #1153 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:15 AM
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So with actual content, what say those of you with units of the motion capabilities (native, OR with FI engaged) over the prior models?

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post #1154 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I finally tracked down the low APL Interstellar scene photo @woofer made. This is actually two projectors, x9900 and NX9 showing at same time wtih half the lens covered one each. One side is 9900 other NX9. Good luck telling which is which. I guess with the right firmware, the NX9 will have proper black performance.
Spoiler!

I suspected that the image had very little, if any, difference in its black level, so I loaded it into Photoshop, cropped the visible content portion in the middle (to eliminate any non-projected image content), and then replaced all black (RGB: 0,0,0) with bright annoying purple.


As you can see, both sides of the image exhibit pretty similar areas of complete black.


In my judgement, this is because the camera used to take the photo is crushing the blacks below a certain value into all black. If the image properly conveys what the person taking it saw in person, that's a point to consider, but it's important to realize that looking at a photo taken of a projected image has much more to do with the camera taking the photo and the display showing the photo than it does with the capability of the equipment projecting the image.
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post #1155 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by BigScreen View Post
I suspected that the image had very little, if any, difference in its black level, so I loaded it into Photoshop, cropped the visible content portion in the middle (to eliminate any non-projected image content), and then replaced all black (RGB: 0,0,0) with bright annoying purple.


As you can see, both sides of the image exhibit pretty similar areas of complete black.


In my judgement, this is because the camera used to take the photo is crushing the blacks below a certain value into all black. If the image properly conveys what the person taking it saw in person, that's a point to consider, but it's important to realize that looking at a photo taken of a projected image has much more to do with the camera taking the photo and the display showing the photo than it does with the capability of the equipment projecting the image.
Raw images from a high dynamic range camera like Canon 5DmkIV will be better than compressed JPGs or PNGs to do this analysis / compare
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post #1156 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post
Mike, do you believe (or know) if JVC will be updating the remaining units to verify that the non-borked DI FW is present on all future units that ship?
They have been in the US for a while now, they are doing something....
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post #1157 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:34 AM
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Raw images from a high dynamic range camera like Canon 5DmkIV will be better than compressed JPGs or PNGs to do this analysis / compare
Plus the exposure needs to be long enough so that we aren't just looking at noise.

That being said, I don't get much out of screenshots posted to the web about projectors
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post #1158 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Really? I'd have to stab myself in the eyes every time I watch something off Amazon Prime or Netflix on the 820 as it can only play back all that lovely UHD WGC 24p content at 60p - there is no native 24p playback of streamed content.
Roku can auto switch frame rate for Netflix at least. Kinda a pita though because it will switch in the menu and cause a re-sync.

Some of the streaming stuff looks great. Although some of the Netflix stuff is intentionally grainy and soft. Grand Tour and Jack Ryan on Amazon look great though. Lost in Space on Netflix was good too.
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post #1159 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:49 AM
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Can anyone confirm input lag numbers on both the NX7 and NX9?

We’d need that done in 1080p & 4k - in both normal and “game” mode, correct?
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post #1160 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1161 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BigScreen View Post
In my judgement, this is because the camera used to take the photo is crushing the blacks below a certain value into all black.
This is why I put little stock in photos of a screen. I can't take a photo of LED lighting without it being all blown out and not even close to how it looks in real life, and people are using the same phones to take pics of their screen to show the quality. Might as well be recording your high end speakers with your phone's mic and playing them back on computer speakers to try to show the sound quality.

And don't even get me started with the whole JPEG format (which is a highly compressed image) that people are posting and others are zooming in and pointing out flaws that could easily have come from the compression and edge distortion common with that format.

Just skip the pics, it will look different in your room anyway...
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post #1162 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
UPDATE:

Nearly finished evaluating new Firmware v1.17

VERY significant improvements!

Will post details shortly...


Thanks for your continued work Arrow!
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post #1163 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
Roku can auto switch frame rate for Netflix at least. Kinda a pita though because it will switch in the menu and cause a re-sync.

Some of the streaming stuff looks great. Although some of the Netflix stuff is intentionally grainy and soft. Grand Tour and Jack Ryan on Amazon look great though. Lost in Space on Netflix was good too.
Yes, I wasn't criticising Netflix, I was criticising the Panasonic.

I use ATV4K most of the time as that has the Match Frame Rate option but doesn't switch the UI refresh for each trailer. However, it has other annoying quirks - problems with HDR metadata, no support for pure 24p / 60p (only 23.976p / 59.94p).

Also have Sony UBP-X800. That supports all the refresh rate options (23.976p, 24p, 59.94p, 60p) but it has the same problem as the Roku - it changes rate for trailers. Which as you know, means it is almost unusable with JVC.

I am constantly amazed that these huge companies find it so difficult to just play the video properly, dammit!
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post #1164 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
UPDATE:

Nearly finished evaluating new Firmware v1.17

VERY significant improvements!

Will post details shortly...


Did it turn it into an JVC NX18?
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post #1165 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
UPDATE:

Nearly finished evaluating new Firmware v1.17

VERY significant improvements!

Will post details shortly...


Breath held!

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Originally Posted by SSnarski View Post
SONY 995/870ES, 695/570ES, and 295/270ES: [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
I am very new to the forum like today!

I have been following post since day one, even had phone conversations with Mike Garret, I am in the process of taking everything out of the living room (All Audio)- and subs and moving them to a dedicated theater room in basement i am currently framing - this will be my first projector/screen set up ever, had came to a conclusion of purchasing the new JVC RS3000 with Panamorph DCR lens with a 150" Diagonal 2.4:0 SI zero edge pro screen, i will wait to see what arrow has to say about the Sony 995es when he does his magic and review - My first thoughts was the Sony 885es with lens, then the 995es without the lens due to overall cost, i have seen the 885es without lens on a 165" 16:9 screen and was highly unimpressed - went and seen the jvc4500 no extra lens on display and it was stunning in comparison, i would like to use the DCR lens but it is not plug and play with the RS4500 - not sure if this is a future upgrade with JVC probably not.


So like everyone else, i am chomping at the bit to decide on what is best for the money i intend to spend before i order.
If you plan on keeping your new projector for more then 2 years, I would not consider a Sony due to the contrast degradation problem.
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post #1167 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 12:33 PM
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Breath held!
For several months, even!
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post #1168 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 12:37 PM
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Ekki- Have you gotten your hands on a production unit and tried the new V1.17 firmware yet?
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post #1169 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 12:45 PM
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UPDATE:

Nearly finished evaluating new Firmware v1.17

VERY significant improvements!

Will post details shortly...


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post #1170 of 14902 Old 01-11-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Spoiler!

Seriously though. Nigel (ARROW) was supposed to be taking a break due to personal events so I did not expect any news from him about 1.17 at all today or even over the next week. He must be working overtime to get these new evaluations out to us.

Nigel, when you eventually post your full review and comparison of all the projectors, include a paypal donation link. I'll send you some cash.
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