Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 404 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12091 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drem View Post
Unfortunately I still have the DI closing down issue with 2.07. I will be contacting my dealer.

I find it odd that no one else has seen this issue. It feels like a software bug, like buffer memory/algoritm or something, but since no one else has it, Im not sure anymore.

This is what happens when the issue appears, usually 1-2 hours in. Sometime it has apperaed in a shorter period of time, and sometimes longer, but usually around the 1-hour mark. With a dark test scene, I bring the projector menu back and forth. DI almost completely closes. This is with manual aperture at 0. With the same test scene, in normal DI operation and manual aperture at 0, it closes just ever so little (as it should be with aperture at 0)

Video:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9uow7qx1k3...24539.mp4?dl=0
I've had a very similar iris pumping problem on one of the previous e-shift projectors and was told the projector needed to be replaced under warranty. It was an intermittent problem and typically only happened after 45-60 min of watching and based on the type of content I was watching. My guess is that there are positional sensors in the iris that stop reading correctly. You should get your projector swapped.

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post #12092 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
another thing i've noticed is that now when you shut down the projector the red light on front goes away after a while. To power the projector back you have to press any button on the remote (red light comes up) and then power on.

This seems like it could interfere with those who turn their entire home theater on as part of an automation program.
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post #12093 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
This is strange. Just to be clear: this happen when you set AUTO 1 or 2 or it happens also with auto disabled and iris set manual to 0? If the strong change happens in auto i think this is software related, otherwise there must be something that needs an hard reset.
Have you tried a factory reset from SERVICE menu? Not from the projector stanrdard menu but from the service menu. After the install of 2.07 i would consider an hard reset from service menu, you will loose your settings but if the behaviour is still there i would ask for a change.
Yes both AUTO1 and 2. No difference. Setting manual disables the DI so yes normal operation here and constant light output. I will try a service menu reset, I did on 2.05 but will try 2.07.
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post #12094 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I've had a very similar iris pumping problem on one of the previous e-shift projectors and was told the projector needed to be replaced under warranty. It was an intermittent problem and typically only happened after 45-60 min of watching and based on the type of content I was watching. My guess is that there are positional sensors in the iris that stop reading correctly. You should get your projector swapped.
Thanks for the input. I am awaiting a reply from the dealer.
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post #12095 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
I'm happy to report that 2.07 completely fix the "colour bug". Now you can choose 422 or 444 (or RGB) according to the input with no conversion/side effects. AUTO works fine, too.
another thing i've noticed is that now when you shut down the projector the red light on front goes away after a while. To power the projector back you have to press any button on the remote (red light comes up) and then power on.
Great news if the colourspace error is fixed, I'll update later and confirm.

Did you check the power saving option after the update? It might have defaulted to the max power saving one, instead of the one with the network standby if you've done a reset to factory defaults. I'll take a look as well after the update.
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post #12096 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drem View Post
Unfortunately I still have the DI closing down issue with 2.07. I will be contacting my dealer.

I find it odd that no one else has seen this issue. It feels like a software bug, like buffer memory/algoritm or something, but since no one else has it, Im not sure anymore.

This is what happens when the issue appears, usually 1-2 hours in. Sometime it has apperaed in a shorter period of time, and sometimes longer, but usually around the 1-hour mark. With a dark test scene, I bring the projector menu back and forth. DI almost completely closes. This is with manual aperture at 0. With the same test scene, in normal DI operation and manual aperture at 0, it closes just ever so little (as it should be with aperture at 0)

Video:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9uow7qx1k3...24539.mp4?dl=0
Just a quick basic question. When you say the DI closes, how do you determine that? Just by looking at how dark or bright a scene looks? I don't think I have seen such a problem but curious.
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post #12097 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by gravi View Post
Just a quick basic question. When you say the DI closes, how do you determine that? Just by looking at how dark or bright a scene looks? I don't think I have seen such a problem but curious.
In the video you see clearly how it closes and opens. The more in closes the lesser the light goes through and onto your screen.
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post #12098 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 07:40 AM
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Would like to get more specific tweaking my NX7 for upcoming movie viewing. Don’t have a meter and not ready to get into more advanced calibration, but I’m seeing references here about using gammas of 2.4 and knocking brightness down to -1/-2.

I’m curious if there’s a published list of quick out of the box settings adjustments to make to optimize the picture?

I’m using sdr and hdr sources. Appletv and Kscape, but I may go back to an Oppo 203.

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post #12099 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Great news if the colourspace error is fixed, I'll update later and confirm.

Did you check the power saving option after the update? It might have defaulted to the max power saving one, instead of the one with the network standby if you've done a reset to factory defaults. I'll take a look as well after the update.
Yes, this is supposed to fix the color space issue that you reported.
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post #12100 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 08:15 AM
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I can't update till later today... But 12bit 4:4:4 23.976Hz works now?





PLEASE SAY YES!!!!!!!!!!

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post #12101 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
My guess is RS4500 is:
- no *dynamic iris* (it has fantastically working laser dimming and doesn't need a DI).
- Will keep the lamp iris it has for manual settings.
- maybe 4000-5000 lumens
- New better contrast panel
- Probably 8K eshift
- Tone mapping of some sort perhaps an improved version of what is offered in NX series.

My guess is you will see $60-70k MSRP. Not really something someone that considered an RS4500 would consider.
And my guess is, the only laser projector JVC has at CEDIA is the 4500. Anybody taking bets?
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post #12102 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
I'm happy to report that 2.07 completely fix the "colour bug". Now you can choose 422 or 444 (or RGB) according to the input with no conversion/side effects. AUTO works fine, too.
another thing i've noticed is that now when you shut down the projector the red light on front goes away after a while. To power the projector back you have to press any button on the remote (red light comes up) and then power on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
This seems like it could interfere with those who turn their entire home theater on as part of an automation program.
Turn ECO mode off.
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post #12103 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I can't update till later today... But 12bit 4:4:4 23.976Hz works now?

PLEASE SAY YES!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Yes, this is supposed to fix the color space issue that you reported.
Unfortunately, as far as I can see, they haven't solved the problem, they have only disabled the colorspace setting when receiving 12bits, so that the symptoms are less visible.

YCC422 is still forced in 12bits even at 30p and lower, but in 12bits all the colorspace options in the JVC have the same effect, which is to select YCC422 internally.

So when you send RGB 444 12bits or YCC 444 12bits, you don't see that the wrong colorspace is applied if you don't select auto in the JVC, but there is still an unwanted chroma conversion happening behind the source's back that is detrimental to chroma resolution (in a minor way).

It's not a big issue, but I would still recommend to use 4:4:4 8bits or 4:2:2 12bits, depending on the source. RGB 4:4:4 12bits and YCC 4:4:4 12bits are still not recommended.

I attach a screenshot showing that YCC422 is forced irrespective of the colorspace option selected, and a close up on the "fox" pattern to show the effect (look at the red and blue lines at the bottom, the chroma resolution is much better in 8bits than in 12bits).

This is more likely to be visible on games and desktop apps, and unlikely to be noticeable on video content, except in very unusual situations, and only if the film is very boring .

If your source does good dithering (such as madVR), especially if your source is a PC you're also using for desktop work or gaming, I highly recommend to keep using RGB 8bits until this is fixed (with madVR set to 8bits for native panel bit depth). This doesn't add any banding compared to 12bits. You'll get better results than with RGB 12bits and madVR set to 10bits native bit depth, due to this minor chroma issue, and you'll get better results in gaming/desktop apps too.

If you have a dedicated HTPC exclusively to video content and you feel better using RGB 12bits because it feels more "right", by all mean do so, I doubt it will harm the picture in any significant way.

What's important with HDR is to have 10bits in the content. Having madVR dithering from its internal 16bits to 10bits or 8bits makes very little difference to the final result, and certainly none that would be noticeable from sitting distance regarding banding or additional noise.

With a standalone player, I still recommend using YCC 422 12bits. It will work at all frame rates up to 60p and should give you excellent results. If, for any reason, you need/prefer to use RGB or YCC444 12bits, again I doubt it will produce any significant/visible degradation with video content.

Mike, please forward to JVC and ask them if the new f/w is supposed to actually fix the problem, or if this is as far as they can go due to hardware limitations. V2.07 makes the issue less obvious when a "wrong" colorspace is selected manually, but from a PQ point of view there is zero difference as far as I can see.

I tested with nVidia drivers V385.28. I'll try with 430.86 later if I have the time, but I don't expect the results to be any different. [EDIT: tested with 430.86, same results].
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post #12104 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 10:05 AM
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You answered my question Manni. Thank you.


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post #12105 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 11:44 AM
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I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
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post #12106 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
blue bars?
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post #12107 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 11:57 AM
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blue bars?
I've always had blue, green and occasionally purple. In this case I got green once and blue once with the same file.
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post #12108 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 12:07 PM
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I've always had blue, green and occasionally purple. In this case I got green once and blue once with the same file.
10-4. tks
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post #12109 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
Which file?
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post #12110 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Unfortunately, as far as I can see, they haven't solved the problem, they have only disabled the colorspace setting when receiving 12bits, so that the symptoms are less visible.

YCC422 is still forced in 12bits even at 30p and lower, but in 12bits all the colorspace options in the JVC have the same effect, which is to select YCC422 internally.

So when you send RGB 444 12bits or YCC 444 12bits, you don't see that the wrong colorspace is applied if you don't select auto in the JVC, but there is still an unwanted chroma conversion happening behind the source's back that is detrimental to chroma resolution (in a minor way).

It's not a big issue, but I would still recommend to use 4:4:4 8bits or 4:2:2 12bits, depending on the source. RGB 4:4:4 12bits and YCC 4:4:4 12bits are still not recommended.

I attach a screenshot showing that YCC422 is forced irrespective of the colorspace option selected, and a close up on the "fox" pattern to show the effect (look at the red and blue lines at the bottom, the chroma resolution is much better in 8bits than in 12bits).

This is more likely to be visible on games and desktop apps, and unlikely to be noticeable on video content, except in very unusual situations, and only if the film is very boring .

If your source does good dithering (such as madVR), especially if your source is a PC you're also using for desktop work or gaming, I highly recommend to keep using RGB 8bits until this is fixed (with madVR set to 8bits for native panel bit depth). This doesn't add any banding compared to 12bits. You'll get better results than with RGB 12bits and madVR set to 10bits native bit depth, due to this minor chroma issue, and you'll get better results in gaming/desktop apps too.

If you have a dedicated HTPC exclusively to video content and you feel better using RGB 12bits because it feels more "right", by all mean do so, I doubt it will harm the picture in any significant way.

What's important with HDR is to have 10bits in the content. Having madVR dithering from its internal 16bits to 10bits or 8bits makes very little difference to the final result, and certainly none that would be noticeable from sitting distance regarding banding or additional noise.

With a standalone player, I still recommend using YCC 422 12bits. It will work at all frame rates up to 60p and should give you excellent results. If, for any reason, you need/prefer to use RGB or YCC444 12bits, again I doubt it will produce any significant/visible degradation with video content.

Mike, please forward to JVC and ask them if the new f/w is supposed to actually fix the problem, or if this is as far as they can go due to hardware limitations. V2.07 makes the issue less obvious when a "wrong" colorspace is selected manually, but from a PQ point of view there is zero difference as far as I can see.

I tested with nVidia drivers V385.28. I'll try with 430.86 later if I have the time, but I don't expect the results to be any different. [EDIT: tested with 430.86, same results].
Have already sent to JVC.
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post #12111 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
Exactly what are you doing?
What pieces of equipment in system is being used, when experiencing problem?
What are you using for HDMI and length?
What file?

Added
If you will shoot that info to me in an email, along with a picture and the serial number of your unit, I will get this info to JVC engineering.
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post #12112 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
File? It would be helpful if people would list what their source is and if they are going through an AVR etc. I have not had any issue playing UHD 4k Blu-Rays and standard Blu-Ray discs with an Oppo 203. When you say file, are you streaming a movie?
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post #12113 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 12:28 PM
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I'm sensing a pattern in the questions....
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post #12114 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
File? It would be helpful if people would list what their source is and if they are going through an AVR etc. I have not had any issue playing UHD 4k Blu-Rays and standard Blu-Ray discs with an Oppo 203. When you say file, are you streaming a movie?


Same here without the source, settings and equipment hard to try and replicate the problem.


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post #12115 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Exactly what are you doing?
What pieces of equipment in system is being used, when experiencing problem?
What are you using for HDMI and length?
What file?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
File? It would be helpful if people would list what their source is and if they are going through an AVR etc. I have not had any issue playing UHD 4k Blu-Rays and standard Blu-Ray discs with an Oppo 203. When you say file, are you streaming a movie?
I have one of the first RS-3000s (received it the day after the first shipment was released by JVC USA QC). When the problem first occurred back in February, I went through the entire chain and swapped out equipment, cables, bypassed AVR, etc. etc. until I was sure that none of that was influencing the problem.

Most of my viewing is done with an HTPC although I've seen the problem streaming from a Roku and playing back from from a Tivo. (I have an Oppo 203 but use it very seldom.) I have also tried Latency and CMD settings and can report that they do not affect anything.

After 3 months with the problem, I can guarantee that the only thing that causes the problem is the video material. When it occurs, it seems to always be on a frame with large black areas and with a somewhat complex image (like a logo) that occupies 10-30% of the screen area. (But many images that seem to fit that description never cause the problem.)

The file that I mentioned is a 6 sec test clip of the old Amazon instant video logo. It often shows the problem the first time but may may need to be played 5-10 times until it shows up.

Among others, the problem shows up on Murder in the Orient Express (4K) and especially the Apollo 11 Blu-ray documentary. This last is a special problem because it has many scenes with black space as a background.

On the other hand, I've played many, many movies and videos over the last 3 months without seeing a problem. Because of this experience, I would not consider the problem fixed until I'd gone at least 2 weeks without seeing the problem. My usage is about 5 hours a day. I may not see it for several days or I may see it 2 or 3 times in a single day. People that have much lower usage and/or different movies/videos could conceivably never see it.

MIKE: Craig already has the info and has passed it on to JVC.
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post #12116 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I have one of the first RS-3000s (received it the day after the first shipment was released by JVC USA QC). When the problem first occurred back in February, I went through the entire chain and swapped out equipment, cables, bypassed AVR, etc. etc. until I was sure that none of that was influencing the problem.

Most of my viewing is done with an HTPC although I've seen the problem streaming from a Roku and playing back from from a Tivo. (I have an Oppo 203 but use it very seldom.) I have also tried Latency and CMD settings and can report that they do not affect anything.

After 3 months with the problem, I can guarantee that the only thing that causes the problem is the video material. When it occurs, it seems to always be on a frame with large black areas and with a somewhat complex image (like a logo) that occupies 10-30% of the screen area. (But many images that seem to fit that description never cause the problem.)

The file that I mentioned is a 6 sec test clip of the old Amazon instant video logo. It often shows the problem the first time but may may need to be played 5-10 times until it shows up.

Among others, the problem shows up on Murder in the Orient Express (4K) and especially the Apollo 11 Blu-ray documentary. This last is a special problem because it has many scenes with black space as a background.

On the other hand, I've played many, many movies and videos over the last 3 months without seeing a problem. Because of this experience, I would not consider the problem fixed until I'd gone at least 2 weeks without seeing the problem. My usage is about 5 hours a day. I may not see it for several days or I may see it 2 or 3 times in a single day. People that have much lower usage and/or different movies/videos could conceivably never see it.
I guess you did not see what i added to my post? "If you will shoot that info to me in an email, along with a picture and the serial number of your unit, I will get this info to JVC engineering."
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post #12117 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 03:04 PM
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I guess you did not see what i added to my post? "If you will shoot that info to me in an email, along with a picture and the serial number of your unit, I will get this info to JVC engineering."
Sorry, I did see that and edited my post to say that Craig has the info.
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post #12118 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 03:06 PM
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Sorry, I did see that and edited my post to say that Craig has the info.
Okay, was just offering to help. Did not know where you bought your projector.
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post #12119 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 03:26 PM
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2.07 ... so far so good. Just one thing: i can't find no more the special Panasonic profiles. I never use them even if i have a Pana 9000 i prefer a custom cal but i was wondering if they have been removed or if i messed up something playin' around.
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post #12120 of 15220 Old 05-30-2019, 03:40 PM
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Exactly what are you doing?
What pieces of equipment in system is being used, when experiencing problem?
What are you using for HDMI and length?
What file?

Added
If you will shoot that info to me in an email, along with a picture and the serial number of your unit, I will get this info to JVC engineering.
Working on it with Mr. D. !
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