Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 404 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12091 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 11:05 AM
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You answered my question Manni. Thank you.


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post #12092 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 12:44 PM
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I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
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post #12093 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
blue bars?
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post #12094 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 12:57 PM
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blue bars?
I've always had blue, green and occasionally purple. In this case I got green once and blue once with the same file.
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post #12095 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 01:07 PM
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I've always had blue, green and occasionally purple. In this case I got green once and blue once with the same file.
10-4. tks
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post #12096 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
Which file?
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post #12097 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Unfortunately, as far as I can see, they haven't solved the problem, they have only disabled the colorspace setting when receiving 12bits, so that the symptoms are less visible.

YCC422 is still forced in 12bits even at 30p and lower, but in 12bits all the colorspace options in the JVC have the same effect, which is to select YCC422 internally.

So when you send RGB 444 12bits or YCC 444 12bits, you don't see that the wrong colorspace is applied if you don't select auto in the JVC, but there is still an unwanted chroma conversion happening behind the source's back that is detrimental to chroma resolution (in a minor way).

It's not a big issue, but I would still recommend to use 4:4:4 8bits or 4:2:2 12bits, depending on the source. RGB 4:4:4 12bits and YCC 4:4:4 12bits are still not recommended.

I attach a screenshot showing that YCC422 is forced irrespective of the colorspace option selected, and a close up on the "fox" pattern to show the effect (look at the red and blue lines at the bottom, the chroma resolution is much better in 8bits than in 12bits).

This is more likely to be visible on games and desktop apps, and unlikely to be noticeable on video content, except in very unusual situations, and only if the film is very boring .

If your source does good dithering (such as madVR), especially if your source is a PC you're also using for desktop work or gaming, I highly recommend to keep using RGB 8bits until this is fixed (with madVR set to 8bits for native panel bit depth). This doesn't add any banding compared to 12bits. You'll get better results than with RGB 12bits and madVR set to 10bits native bit depth, due to this minor chroma issue, and you'll get better results in gaming/desktop apps too.

If you have a dedicated HTPC exclusively to video content and you feel better using RGB 12bits because it feels more "right", by all mean do so, I doubt it will harm the picture in any significant way.

What's important with HDR is to have 10bits in the content. Having madVR dithering from its internal 16bits to 10bits or 8bits makes very little difference to the final result, and certainly none that would be noticeable from sitting distance regarding banding or additional noise.

With a standalone player, I still recommend using YCC 422 12bits. It will work at all frame rates up to 60p and should give you excellent results. If, for any reason, you need/prefer to use RGB or YCC444 12bits, again I doubt it will produce any significant/visible degradation with video content.

Mike, please forward to JVC and ask them if the new f/w is supposed to actually fix the problem, or if this is as far as they can go due to hardware limitations. V2.07 makes the issue less obvious when a "wrong" colorspace is selected manually, but from a PQ point of view there is zero difference as far as I can see.

I tested with nVidia drivers V385.28. I'll try with 430.86 later if I have the time, but I don't expect the results to be any different. [EDIT: tested with 430.86, same results].
Have already sent to JVC.
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post #12098 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
Exactly what are you doing?
What pieces of equipment in system is being used, when experiencing problem?
What are you using for HDMI and length?
What file?

Added
If you will shoot that info to me in an email, along with a picture and the serial number of your unit, I will get this info to JVC engineering.
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Last edited by Mike Garrett; 05-30-2019 at 02:22 PM.
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post #12099 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
File? It would be helpful if people would list what their source is and if they are going through an AVR etc. I have not had any issue playing UHD 4k Blu-Rays and standard Blu-Ray discs with an Oppo 203. When you say file, are you streaming a movie?
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post #12100 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 01:28 PM
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I'm sensing a pattern in the questions....
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post #12101 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
File? It would be helpful if people would list what their source is and if they are going through an AVR etc. I have not had any issue playing UHD 4k Blu-Rays and standard Blu-Ray discs with an Oppo 203. When you say file, are you streaming a movie?


Same here without the source, settings and equipment hard to try and replicate the problem.


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post #12102 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Exactly what are you doing?
What pieces of equipment in system is being used, when experiencing problem?
What are you using for HDMI and length?
What file?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
File? It would be helpful if people would list what their source is and if they are going through an AVR etc. I have not had any issue playing UHD 4k Blu-Rays and standard Blu-Ray discs with an Oppo 203. When you say file, are you streaming a movie?
I have one of the first RS-3000s (received it the day after the first shipment was released by JVC USA QC). When the problem first occurred back in February, I went through the entire chain and swapped out equipment, cables, bypassed AVR, etc. etc. until I was sure that none of that was influencing the problem.

Most of my viewing is done with an HTPC although I've seen the problem streaming from a Roku and playing back from from a Tivo. (I have an Oppo 203 but use it very seldom.) I have also tried Latency and CMD settings and can report that they do not affect anything.

After 3 months with the problem, I can guarantee that the only thing that causes the problem is the video material. When it occurs, it seems to always be on a frame with large black areas and with a somewhat complex image (like a logo) that occupies 10-30% of the screen area. (But many images that seem to fit that description never cause the problem.)

The file that I mentioned is a 6 sec test clip of the old Amazon instant video logo. It often shows the problem the first time but may may need to be played 5-10 times until it shows up.

Among others, the problem shows up on Murder in the Orient Express (4K) and especially the Apollo 11 Blu-ray documentary. This last is a special problem because it has many scenes with black space as a background.

On the other hand, I've played many, many movies and videos over the last 3 months without seeing a problem. Because of this experience, I would not consider the problem fixed until I'd gone at least 2 weeks without seeing the problem. My usage is about 5 hours a day. I may not see it for several days or I may see it 2 or 3 times in a single day. People that have much lower usage and/or different movies/videos could conceivably never see it.

MIKE: Craig already has the info and has passed it on to JVC.
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post #12103 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I have one of the first RS-3000s (received it the day after the first shipment was released by JVC USA QC). When the problem first occurred back in February, I went through the entire chain and swapped out equipment, cables, bypassed AVR, etc. etc. until I was sure that none of that was influencing the problem.

Most of my viewing is done with an HTPC although I've seen the problem streaming from a Roku and playing back from from a Tivo. (I have an Oppo 203 but use it very seldom.) I have also tried Latency and CMD settings and can report that they do not affect anything.

After 3 months with the problem, I can guarantee that the only thing that causes the problem is the video material. When it occurs, it seems to always be on a frame with large black areas and with a somewhat complex image (like a logo) that occupies 10-30% of the screen area. (But many images that seem to fit that description never cause the problem.)

The file that I mentioned is a 6 sec test clip of the old Amazon instant video logo. It often shows the problem the first time but may may need to be played 5-10 times until it shows up.

Among others, the problem shows up on Murder in the Orient Express (4K) and especially the Apollo 11 Blu-ray documentary. This last is a special problem because it has many scenes with black space as a background.

On the other hand, I've played many, many movies and videos over the last 3 months without seeing a problem. Because of this experience, I would not consider the problem fixed until I'd gone at least 2 weeks without seeing the problem. My usage is about 5 hours a day. I may not see it for several days or I may see it 2 or 3 times in a single day. People that have much lower usage and/or different movies/videos could conceivably never see it.
I guess you did not see what i added to my post? "If you will shoot that info to me in an email, along with a picture and the serial number of your unit, I will get this info to JVC engineering."
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post #12104 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 04:04 PM
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I guess you did not see what i added to my post? "If you will shoot that info to me in an email, along with a picture and the serial number of your unit, I will get this info to JVC engineering."
Sorry, I did see that and edited my post to say that Craig has the info.
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post #12105 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 04:06 PM
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Sorry, I did see that and edited my post to say that Craig has the info.
Okay, was just offering to help. Did not know where you bought your projector.
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post #12106 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 04:26 PM
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2.07 ... so far so good. Just one thing: i can't find no more the special Panasonic profiles. I never use them even if i have a Pana 9000 i prefer a custom cal but i was wondering if they have been removed or if i messed up something playin' around.
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post #12107 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Exactly what are you doing?
What pieces of equipment in system is being used, when experiencing problem?
What are you using for HDMI and length?
What file?

Added
If you will shoot that info to me in an email, along with a picture and the serial number of your unit, I will get this info to JVC engineering.
Working on it with Mr. D. !
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post #12108 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
File? It would be helpful if people would list what their source is and if they are going through an AVR etc. I have not had any issue playing UHD 4k Blu-Rays and standard Blu-Ray discs with an Oppo 203. When you say file, are you streaming a movie?
Patient - " Dr., my arm hurts ".
Doctor - " what are you doing that makes it hurt ? ".
Patient - " this ".
Doctor - " stop doing that ".

Stop playing that file.
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post #12109 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 05:13 PM
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Turn ECO mode off.


Is it recommended to turn ECO mode off Mike if we use automation such as Harmony Elite?


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post #12110 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 06:26 PM
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Had friends over to watch
Mad max fury road
And
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Both in 4k
All were impressed and notice the difference from my Sony es600
Version. 2.04
OUt of box, no calibration
I bet Probably like night and day difference?
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post #12111 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 06:37 PM
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Is it recommended to turn ECO mode off Mike if we use automation such as Harmony Elite?


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Yes.
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post #12112 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 08:39 PM
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I bet Probably like night and day difference?
Absolutely
Watching Boetsh on prime 4k super picture
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post #12113 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 09:00 PM
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post #12114 of 19416 Old 05-30-2019, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
2.07 ... so far so good. Just one thing: i can't find no more the special Panasonic profiles. I never use them even if i have a Pana 9000 i prefer a custom cal but i was wondering if they have been removed or if i messed up something playin' around.
Make sure your gamma isn’t on hdr and is on 2.x. If it’s on hdr it won’t show that color profile.
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post #12115 of 19416 Old 05-31-2019, 12:16 AM
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I've had a very similar iris pumping problem on one of the previous e-shift projectors and was told the projector needed to be replaced under warranty. It was an intermittent problem and typically only happened after 45-60 min of watching and based on the type of content I was watching. My guess is that there are positional sensors in the iris that stop reading correctly. You should get your projector swapped.
Do you know if JVC technical department knows about such an issue with the NX / N series of projectors? The reason I ask is because my dealer was told they knew and would fix the issue with the next firmware. Maybe they didnt understand the problem, or my dealer didnt explain it correctly. But for my future talks with my dealer it would nice to know if JVC and I are talking about the same problem. I thought maybe you or Manni have some insight into this through your JVC contacts?
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post #12116 of 19416 Old 05-31-2019, 12:35 AM
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Do you know if JVC technical department knows about such an issue with the NX / N series of projectors?
Last night i've paid attention at the iris movements in AUTO mode. I usually don't use auto mode i left manual at 0 so i was wondering if i were "missing" some bugs. Well, i can say that if you look directly at the lens as in the video you posted i can clearly see the iris clamping down to a certain degree in some scenes, but if i look at the screen the closing is not so evident. I mean: the iris is doing his work in auto mode but the difference is subtle, you can see it if you're looking for it but the image does not change that much to become distracting.
My question now is: when you're seeing a movie and you are "relaxed", i mean not looking for bugs or similar, you can clearly see the iris closing down? I mean, it is distracting at the point you pause everything to understand what's happening? If yes we have a bug or a defective unit, otherwise it may be normal operation.

Last but not least have you done a full factory reset from service menu after updating to 2.07? If not i suggest you to do it asap.
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post #12117 of 19416 Old 05-31-2019, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus2k View Post
Last night i've paid attention at the iris movements in AUTO mode. I usually don't use auto mode i left manual at 0 so i was wondering if i were "missing" some bugs. Well, i can say that if you look directly at the lens as in the video you posted i can clearly see the iris clamping down to a certain degree in some scenes, but if i look at the screen the closing is not so evident. I mean: the iris is doing his work in auto mode but the difference is subtle, you can see it if you're looking for it but the image does not change that much to become distracting.
My question now is: when you're seeing a movie and you are "relaxed", i mean not looking for bugs or similar, you can clearly see the iris closing down? I mean, it is distracting at the point you pause everything to understand what's happening? If yes we have a bug or a defective unit, otherwise it may be normal operation.

Last but not least have you done a full factory reset from service menu after updating to 2.07? If not i suggest you to do it asap.
Thanks for checking. I did the service menu factory reset yesterday, but issue remains. Yes the dynamic iris is working as it should for a while. Usually around 1 hour. It clamps down in dark scenes just about right, just a little, as I like it, and at manual aperture at 0 this is subtle. This is normal operation and all ok, but then when this "bug" arrives, it clamps down almost all the way in dark scenes (as you see in the video), which results that the image gets way to dark. Bright scenes are ok, the DI opens all the way just as normal, just dark scenes suddently closes iris almost all the way. The subtitles gets almost grey. This is not normal operation. Something happens here, either software somehow gets messed up, the DI algoritm, or it could be a hardware issue. When it happens, I turn DI off and continue to watch at manual aperture 0, or I powercycle the projector to get back to normal DI mode. At manual mode, it is not as good with black level (and sometimes scene contrast) is not as good as with Auto DI (before the bug arrives that is..)

What is strange is that no one else has this bug it seems? This makes me think it might be hardware. But then again, it seems to arrive like clockwork, around the 1 hour mark. This makes me think software.

I really have no clue right now. I still havent heard back from the dealer after me reporting back that the issue remains with FW 2.07. He told me JVC knew and would fix the problem in this firmware.

Last edited by Drem; 05-31-2019 at 01:34 AM.
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post #12118 of 19416 Old 05-31-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Drem View Post
Do you know if JVC technical department knows about such an issue with the NX / N series of projectors? The reason I ask is because my dealer was told they knew and would fix the issue with the next firmware. Maybe they didnt understand the problem, or my dealer didnt explain it correctly. But for my future talks with my dealer it would nice to know if JVC and I are talking about the same problem. I thought maybe you or Manni have some insight into this through your JVC contacts?
I don't believe your problem is software. It sounds like a problem with hardware. Have had a couple customers have this issue with the previous generation.
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post #12119 of 19416 Old 05-31-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Drem View Post
Thanks for checking. I did the service menu factory reset yesterday, but issue remains. Yes the dynamic iris is working as it should for a while. Usually around 1 hour. It clamps down in dark scenes just about right, just a little, as I like it, and at manual aperture at 0 this is subtle. This is normal operation and all ok, but then when this "bug" arrives, it clamps down almost all the way in dark scenes (as you see in the video), which results that the image gets way to dark. Bright scenes are ok, the DI opens all the way just as normal, just dark scenes suddently closes iris almost all the way. The subtitles gets almost grey. This is not normal operation. Something happens here, either software somehow gets messed up, the DI algoritm, or it could be a hardware issue. When it happens, I turn DI off and continue to watch at manual aperture 0, or I powercycle the projector to get back to normal DI mode. At manual mode, it is not as good with black level (and sometimes scene contrast) is not as good as with Auto DI (before the bug arrives that is..)



What is strange is that no one else has this bug it seems? This makes me think it might be hardware. But then again, it seems to arrive like clockwork, around the 1 hour mark. This makes me think software.



I really have no clue right now. I still havent heard back from the dealer after me reporting back that the issue remains with FW 2.07. He told me JVC knew and would fix the problem in this firmware.


I have had this issue once. But a soft power cycle fixed it. I have not had it in the past two months now


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Gear: Fronts: B&W 803D3 | Center: B&W HTM2D3 | Surrounds: B&W 705S2 | Backs: B&W DM601S3 | Heights: Definitive Techonlogy ProCinema 1000 | Receiver & Amps: Anthem MRX 720 + Emotiva BasX-5 | Projector: JVC NX7 | Source: HTPC with Nvidia 2070, Kodi + External Player: MPC-HC with MadVR (for Blu-ray rips), Nvidia Shield (for streaming content)
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post #12120 of 19416 Old 05-31-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I'm sorry to report that the 2.07 update does NOT fix the vertical bars problem. Note that the problem normally might not show up for quite a while so it might appear to be fixed when it is not. In my case it had not shown up for several days, but as soon as I tried a file that had caused it in the past, it came right up. I power cycled it and got the problem again.
Have any other users loaded 2.07 and had the blue bars reappear? I am trying to decide if it is worth upgrading to 2.07.
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