Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 417 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12481 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 06:01 PM
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Given that we didn't see it in the first batch with 1.17, the infrequency still and that a power cycle fixes it - but the repeatability @jmonier had on their previous unit - it feels like a timing hazard/glitch. This kind of issue sometimes affects us Radiance owners, where the FPGA simulation tools believe everything looks good but some hardware units are right on the edge and require a small (software) logic change to avoid. Hopefully JVC are using the clip and that unit to determine the problem, and ideally find it is within the reprogrammable part of the hardware.
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post #12482 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 06:13 PM
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I read an article in Australia that said when the units first came out they were delayed or recalled because of a hardware issue from A supplier. From what little I know it seems to be a input signal issue that the projector has difficulty with which to me sounds like software if it was Hardware the issue would be easily repeatable and everyone would have it as everyone is discussing it's very hit-and-miss and the problem could be anything from blue yellow purple or I have had red lines or bars. All of our dealers or suppliers are asking to look at the unit so I think JVC is still in the dark. The best part seems to be not even he suppliers understand the problem. As far as warranty goes by dealer and supplier are aware of my unit being buggered so it when I decide to hand it over to them they already know the problem existed from day one
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post #12483 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
I think 300 hours is a bit excessive. With normal viewing I would not be convinced until it went 100 hrs, but then I'd be happy. But, I think you missed the point that I was using a special test clip. That 6 sec clip has been 100% reliable in causing the problem within a few tries. I ran it over 30 times without a problem on the new projector.

I've only run it less than an hour (I have to wait til Monday to get help to take down the old one from the ceiling and put up the new one). I've been fighting this problem for more than 600 hours (probably more than anyone else), so I have a pretty good handle on it and I'll be very surprised if it shows up.
Your special test clip very well could have reproduced the problem on *your* projector. But have you verified it also triggered it on other projectors afflicted by the problem? My guess is every projector is a little different here and your reproduction state is not the same for others. Also there are guys that have reported in with things like "450 hours no blue bars" only a few posts later to say "oops, looks like I spoke too soon, got blue bars today but a power cycle solved it". I don't think even 100 hours is enough to say it's fixed. Not until we actually now why it happens and how to reliably reproduce it. As long as we don't have that data, I think it's not really fixable

Let's say JVC can't reliably reproduce the problem. How are they actually going to fix it? They can make some guesses and try somethings. But they cant know its fixed until they see the problem under debug circumstances, gather the needed data from the debug and determine a root cause. To fix these types of bugs, you need to reproduce it and gather debug data, then make some changes and test with debug again and again and again. When its a few hundred hours between reproductions, you're pretty much screwed.

I sure hope your test clip did reproduce it across the board. That would probably be the key to really fixing this problem. But I didn't see any other owner use your clip and say it triggered the problem. Did you?

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post #12484 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 06:22 PM
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I only wish it were so simple. This blue bars bug, in my opinion, is the worst bug we’ve maybe seen on any projector. It’s super hard to reproduce and seems like it could happen at any time. To solve it, you have to power off the projector, wait for the lamp cool down time, perhaps unplug the projector for a bit, then power it back on. Can you imagine that crap happening with a room full of friends? Not only that, but the issue is wide spread across the entire NX line and all FW versions to date. And it’s so intermittent that you can’t be sure it’s solved for several hundred hours of use.

If I owned an NX series projector, I’d constantly be waiting for the blue bars bug to surface. I couldn’t relax and enjoy the projector. Saying you have three hear warranty just doesn’t help. It’s so intermittent and some owners only put a few hundred hours on their projectors a year they may only see it once every couple months. Is jvc going to swap a projector every time one unit blue bars only once? If not then you have to reproduce it as an ongoing problem.

If jvc could at least implement a button press hdmi reset that could be performed while the projector was running then the problem isn’t such a show stopper. It’d be a pain to grab the remote and hit the reset sequence every time it happened but it’s nothijg like what it takes to fix it now.

This one bug would keep me far away from the entire NX line until it was confidently reproduced, root caused, and fixed. Then I’d need to see no more reports of it on fw versions that contained the fix. As it stands now, I have little confidence that this bug can be fixed in firmware or even reliably reproduced to get an engineer to understand the cause to solve it. As an engineer myself who has worked on shipping hardware, I know you have to be able to reproduce a problem (multiple times) in a debug environment in order to gather enough data to understand what is happening. A problem that only occurs once every few hundred hours is possibly unfixable.

Also I’m sure you’re going to try to say that there are tons of owners that have never seen this bug. To that I’d just say they haven’t seen it yet.
There probably are, but it still should not be happening. I was just saying I would not sit there sweating it out for 300 hours. I would just use my projector and enjoy it, as long as it was working properly. And use the warranty to take care of issues, if they occur. Have enough things to worry about in life. A projector tearing up in warranty period is the least of my worries. Like your car, how many worry about their car tearing up, during the warranty period? I wager, most don't even think about it, especially if you could have advanced exchange.
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post #12485 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 06:39 PM
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There probably are, but it still should not be happening. I was just saying I would not sit there sweating it out for 300 hours. I would just use my projector and enjoy it, as long as it was working properly. And use the warranty to take care of issues, if they occur. Have enough things to worry about in life. A projector tearing up in warranty period is the least of my worries. Like your car, how many worry about their car tearing up, during the warranty period? I wager, most don't even think about it, especially if you could have advanced exchange.
A different way of thinking of it Mike is some people would never buy a car (or whatever product is being discussed) if it had a known issue that renders it useless. Buying a car that has known reliability issues and saying the warranty will cover me doesn't address the problem. I would just rather purchase and own a different car...but hey, that's just me.
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post #12486 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 06:41 PM
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Does anyone here have the JVC, marantz 8805 and directtv combo? I swapped out my HDMI but it still takes awhile to change channels on directtv? I can hear the sound and see the channel change and then it goes dark and about 4 seconds later it pops on?


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post #12487 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post

If I owned an NX series projector, I’d constantly be waiting for the blue bars bug to surface. I couldn’t relax and enjoy the projector. Saying you have three hear warranty just doesn’t help. It’s so intermittent and some owners only put a few hundred hours on their projectors a year they may only see it once every couple months. Is jvc going to swap a projector every time one unit blue bars only once? If not then you have to reproduce it as an ongoing problem.

Also I’m sure you’re going to try to say that there are tons of owners that have never seen this bug. To that I’d just say they haven’t seen it yet.
This seems insane to me. Do you constantly worry every day that you are going to get cancer?

That's no way to live... You gotta relax and don't let things that are outside of your control worry you.

I have an NX5 with 100 hours and have no seen any issue and don't assume that I ever will. This is never something that even crosses my mind normally. If I see the issue only then I will worry about and deal with it.
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post #12488 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 07:17 PM
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Does anyone here have the JVC, marantz 8805 and directtv combo? I swapped out my HDMI but it still takes awhile to change channels on directtv? I can hear the sound and see the channel change and then it goes dark and about 4 seconds later it pops on?


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it sounds like your direct TV is sending the different resolutions based on the channel (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). If you can configure the directtv combo to only output 1080 or such, it should solve the resync on channel changing.
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post #12489 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 07:18 PM
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This seems insane to me. Do you constantly worry every day that you are going to get cancer?

That's no way to live... You gotta relax and don't let things that are outside of your control worry you.

I have an NX5 with 100 hours and have no seen any issue and don't assume that I ever will. This is never something that even crosses my mind normally. If I see the issue only then I will worry about and deal with it.
I do worry about getting cancer, but there's nothing i can do about that lol.

The blue bar issue is different though. I believe every JVC NX projector is susceptible to it and they'll all see it given enough hours. I'm glad you dont worry about it. What it if happens to you 2x in 2 hour period one day next month? Are you going to write it off as a fluke? Or you going to want a projector swap? And if your projector is swapped are you just assuming you're fine?

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post #12490 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 07:25 PM
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I do worry about getting cancer, but there's nothing i can do about that lol.

The blue bar issue is different though. I believe every JVC NX projector is susceptible to it and they'll all see it given enough hours. I'm glad you dont worry about it. What it if happens to you 2x in 2 hour period one day next month? Are you going to write it off as a fluke? Or you going to want a projector swap? And if your projector is swapped are you just assuming you're fine?
You have 0 proof that every projector is affected by it. I would absolutely bet that even in 5 years from now there will be NX models that exist now that will never have shown this issue.

If it happens 2x in a 2 hour period I will contact JVC and do whatever needs to be done, RMA or whatever. I will assume the new one is fine.

What could a single random person even do about this issue right now?


When I buy a product, I only assume that I will have a working product for the duration of it's warranty. I trust JVC's advanced replacement warranty is good and that their overall CS is good and that the length of 3 year warranty on this projector is long enough to justify the price I paid for it.
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post #12491 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 07:29 PM
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You have 0 proof that every projector is affected by it. I would absolutely bet that even in 5 years from now there will be NX models that exist now that will never have shown this issue.

If it happens 2x in a 2 hour period I will contact JVC and do whatever needs to be done, RMA or whatever. I will assume the new one is fine.

What could a single random person even do about this issue right now?


When I buy a product, I only assume that I will have a working product for the duration of it's warranty. I trust JVC's advanced replacement warranty is good and that their overall CS is good and that the length of 3 year warranty on this projector is long enough to justify the price I paid for it.
You're trusting JVC's advanced replacement warranty, that sounds great if the problem is based on a defective unit being swapped. JVC's warranty really is good. But if JVC has no idea what's causing the problem and can't say whether or not its solved, then I'd have no confidence that an RMA solves the problem. That's the problem with undiagnosed intermittent problems.

What could a single random person do? They could not buy the NX line until this problem is root caused and fixed. This is the first time I've ever said something like this about JVC but I'd not want to own any projector in the NX line until this problem is solved. I'd take a solution being JVC saying "we fixed it in FW version 2.xx" and users with the problem installing that FW and not reporting it anymore.

Edit: it's not like I'm recommending people buy Sony or something either. I think the Sony black levels are unacceptable. I'm not sure what one is to do if they can't afford say an RS4500. It sucks. My opinion is if you're going to settle for Sony's blacks yo may as well just save more money and go 4K DLP and wait for something else.

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post #12492 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I do worry about getting cancer, but there's nothing i can do about that lol.



The blue bar issue is different though. I believe every JVC NX projector is susceptible to it and they'll all see it given enough hours. I'm glad you dont worry about it. What it if happens to you 2x in 2 hour period one day next month? Are you going to write it off as a fluke? Or you going to want a projector swap? And if your projector is swapped are you just assuming you're fine?


I have close to 400 hours and have not seen this issue. If it happens I will request a swap but till then I do not worry at all.

I do not agree every JVC is susceptible to it


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post #12493 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 08:27 PM
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I have close to 400 hours and have not seen this issue. If it happens I will request a swap but till then I do not worry at all.

I do not agree every JVC is susceptible to it


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I do hope you never see the problem. It could be that all units are susceptible but certain conditions are required such as some weird timing over the hdmi line or even a level of humidity in the air that changes static electric properties. (I know it sounds silly but I’m not making these things up. These are real things that impact electronics).
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post #12494 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 08:47 PM
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I have close to 400 hours and have not seen this issue. If it happens I will request a swap but till then I do not worry at all.

I do not agree every JVC is susceptible to it


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As of tonight 148 hours and no issues. But I am still on (I think it was 1.7) firmware.

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post #12495 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 08:53 PM
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A different way of thinking of it Mike is some people would never buy a car (or whatever product is being discussed) if it had a known issue that renders it useless. Buying a car that has known reliability issues and saying the warranty will cover me doesn't address the problem. I would just rather purchase and own a different car...but hey, that's just me.
But we were not talking about if one should purchase or not. He already owns the projector.
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post #12496 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
This seems insane to me. Do you constantly worry every day that you are going to get cancer?

That's no way to live... You gotta relax and don't let things that are outside of your control worry you.

I have an NX5 with 100 hours and have no seen any issue and don't assume that I ever will. This is never something that even crosses my mind normally. If I see the issue only then I will worry about and deal with it.
Yes, this is what I was referring to in my earlier post.
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post #12497 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
You're trusting JVC's advanced replacement warranty, that sounds great if the problem is based on a defective unit being swapped. JVC's warranty really is good. But if JVC has no idea what's causing the problem and can't say whether or not its solved, then I'd have no confidence that an RMA solves the problem. That's the problem with undiagnosed intermittent problems.

What could a single random person do? They could not buy the NX line until this problem is root caused and fixed. This is the first time I've ever said something like this about JVC but I'd not want to own any projector in the NX line until this problem is solved. I'd take a solution being JVC saying "we fixed it in FW version 2.xx" and users with the problem installing that FW and not reporting it anymore.

Edit: it's not like I'm recommending people buy Sony or something either. I think the Sony black levels are unacceptable. I'm not sure what one is to do if they can't afford say an RS4500. It sucks. My opinion is if you're going to settle for Sony's blacks yo may as well just save more money and go 4K DLP and wait for something else.
You are speculating all units have this problem. I am only seeing it on two percent, from our numbers.
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post #12498 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 09:27 PM
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You are speculating all units have this problem. I am only seeing it on two percent, from our numbers.
Unfortunately it’s a tough one to generalize this way. Most users put under 500 hours on a projector per year. Most users that see this issue will power cycle and not report it the first time. So it’s unlikely if you sell 100 NX projectors that even 80% have used the unit long enough to know and definite not long enough for it to happen multiple times for people to contact you.

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post #12499 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 09:29 PM
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That's good info there's only 2% of us my dealer is aware of my problem from day one and I have three years to return it for a replacement once they solve the issue
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post #12500 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 09:42 PM
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Unfortunately it’s a tough one to generalize this way. Most users put under 500 hours on a projector per year. Most users that see this issue will power cycle and not report it the first time. So it’s unlikely if you sell 100 NX projectors that even 80% have used the unit long enough to know and definite not long enough for it to happen multiple times for people to contact you.
A lot less tougher than just speculating all units will get this. At least I am using actual numbers.
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post #12501 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 09:51 PM
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Well after going 30hrs on firmware 2.07 got vertical lines again tonight....This is starting to become a pain in the back side. Hope rumors of Epson releasing 4K laser unit this year is true.
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post #12502 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 09:55 PM
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it sounds like your direct TV is sending the different resolutions based on the channel (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). If you can configure the directtv combo to only output 1080 or such, it should solve the resync on channel changing.
I’m not sure I was ready for your message but it was well received and works. Despite everything going on with these projectors that helped a lot
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post #12503 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 10:06 PM
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No better way than watching Raptors destroy warriors on the N7 👍👍👍👍👍
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post #12504 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 10:10 PM
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New projector just received. running 2.05 and blue lines the 2nd times ( 2 issues and 1 fix before sending back) I turned it on. Wow, this is worse than I thought. They really need to get their crap together on a 20k projector. Ill hang for a while and see if they sort things out, if not I guess Ill get my money back and get a Sony.

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post #12505 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 10:32 PM
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I have over 350 hours on my NX9 with no problems. Still on the original 1.17 firmware.
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post #12506 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Parys View Post
New projector just received. running 2.05 and blue lines the 2nd times ( 2 issues and 1 fix before sending back) I turned it on. Wow, this is worse than I thought. They really need to get their crap together on a 20k projector. Ill hang for a while and see if they sort things out, if not I guess Ill get my money back and get a Sony.
Install 2.07. From my understanding it solves the problem for a lot of owners, but not all owners. JVC is still working on the problem.
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post #12507 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 10:51 PM
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Also hearing that progress is being made with the yellowing issue.
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post #12508 of 20381 Old 06-07-2019, 10:58 PM
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Also hearing that progress is being made with the yellowing issue. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
This is the only thing that would make me leave my 1.17 firmware!
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post #12509 of 20381 Old 06-08-2019, 12:15 AM
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The blue bar issue is different though. I believe every JVC NX projector is susceptible to it and they'll all see it given enough hours. I'm glad you dont worry about it. What it if happens to you 2x in 2 hour period one day next month? Are you going to write it off as a fluke? Or you going to want a projector swap? And if your projector is swapped are you just assuming you're fine?
Well anyone who is worried about it can add a warranty to there unit.

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No better way than watching Raptors destroy warriors on the N7 👍👍👍👍👍
I guess they can be beat ......
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post #12510 of 20381 Old 06-08-2019, 02:31 AM
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Jvc swapped my N9 because of the blue bars. I was on 2.05 the new one came with 2.06 and i've installed right away 2.07 just to be sure. So far everything works perfect. The N9 really has a great image, it leaves me breathless every time. This is hands down the best projector i have ever seen/owned. And the 3D of which i am a big fan is something out of this world: pure perfection no ghosting no light dimming no colour shiift, just perfect. A note on the Jvc service: they are simply the best, i've had a fast response to my issues and a very fast exchange of the first unit (that maybe could be fixed with the new firmware, who knows). The new one is really "new": built in may.
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