Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 471 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14101 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Good Morning
I am getting very close to jumping into the RS2000/NX7 game.
Currently I have an "old" RS500 paired with the UB820.

Last night and again this morning, I tried to find some posts in regards to the special picture modes offered when using a Panasonic UB9000.
Just curious how many folks are using either the UB820 or UB9000 and if you are using the different modes that designed to work together?

If upgrading to the UB9000 will help with PQ over the UB820, then I might have to look at making that move too..
Thanks.
Good reading here. Kris Deering doesn’t prefer the special Panny/JVC modes but instead prefers double tone mapping (if I interpreted that properly)...

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...well-panasonic

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post #14102 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Good Morning
I am getting very close to jumping into the RS2000/NX7 game.
Currently I have an "old" RS500 paired with the UB820.

Last night and again this morning, I tried to find some posts in regards to the special picture modes offered when using a Panasonic UB9000.
Just curious how many folks are using either the UB820 or UB9000 and if you are using the different modes that designed to work together?

If upgrading to the UB9000 will help with PQ over the UB820, then I might have to look at making that move too..
Thanks.
Something else to consider would be getting the unit calibrated instead of/or with the UB9000. With talking to two know calibrators here they opted for calibration over the UB9000 if only one could be afforded. With calibration of course everything you watch is effect where as with the UB9000 only material that goes thru that is effected.

Last edited by Cleveland Plasma; 07-21-2019 at 08:21 AM.
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post #14103 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Something else to consider would be getting the unit calibrated instead of/or with the UB9000. With talking to two know calibrators here they opted for calibration over the UB9000 if only one could be afforded. With calibration of course everything you watch is effect where as with the UB9000 only material that goes thru that is effected.
Absolutely. A calibration makes a world of difference. Chad B would be one, or Kris Deering - depending on where one is.
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post #14104 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 09:01 AM
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Hi to all,

I have asked the question below in a Panasonic thread, but got no answer, so I figure I may have better luck in the JVC thread! Here it goes: suppose I hook up a NX9 with the Panasonic 9000 and use the Panasonic 9000 HDR->SDR2020 conversion feature. Suppose now I insert a disc with Dolby Vision and switch Dolby Vision on in the player. Will the conversion algorithms take the Dolby Vision info. into account or will it just use static metadata?

Thanks!
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post #14105 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Honey1 View Post
Hi to all,

I have asked the question below in a Panasonic thread, but got no answer, so I figure I may have better luck in the JVC thread! Here it goes: suppose I hook up a NX9 with the Panasonic 9000 and use the Panasonic 9000 HDR->SDR2020 conversion feature. Suppose now I insert a disc with Dolby Vision and switch Dolby Vision on in the player. Will the conversion algorithms take the Dolby Vision info. into account or will it just use static metadata?

Thanks!
Dolby Vision only works if the whole chain supports it. Turning it on in the player doesn't mean anything other than telling the player it can support it. It will see the EDID of the display and just use the HDR10 base layer of the disc. If you're using a DV player with a projector there is zero reason to turn that feature on. Same goes with HDR10+.

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post #14106 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
If you set the OPPO to output HDR10 and let the projector tone map, there is no issue (aside from the fact that I'm not very impressed so far with JVC's tone mapping).

If you set the OPPO's "HDR" setting to "Off (BT.2020)" with the intention of using OPPO's tone mapping rather than the projector's, the player will only send Rec. 709 color gamut. This is a known bug with the OPPO player.
What issues are you having with their tone map? It isn't as good as some solutions out there, and obviously if there is no metadata to work with there can be frustration, but otherwise it is one of the better out there and by far the best I've seen so far for a stock tone map in a projector.
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post #14107 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I use pixel adjust for modes. My pixel adjust changes by red vertical between power on and warm up after about 45 minutes. I have 2 lens memories and my automation software switches the installation mode automatically after 45 minutes so I never notice. Without this being part of installation mode, I couldn't do this.


Well you could. Pixel adjust can be manipulated directly via IP control, it’s just more complicated than switching lens memories.
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post #14108 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Good reading here. Kris Deering doesn’t prefer the special Panny/JVC modes but instead prefers double tone mapping (if I interpreted that properly)...

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...well-panasonic
Thanks. I will read through this review shortly. I am sure even though the review is for the NX9 that the same theory would apply to the NX7.

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Something else to consider would be getting the unit calibrated instead of/or with the UB9000. With talking to two know calibrators here they opted for calibration over the UB9000 if only one could be afforded. With calibration of course everything you watch is effect where as with the UB9000 only material that goes thru that is effected.
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Absolutely. A calibration makes a world of difference. Chad B would be one, or Kris Deering - depending on where one is.
Most definitely. I have been using Chad B since 2003 for anything audio/video that has come into my home.
If I pull the trigger in the next day or so, I wouldn't be ready for a calibration(nor will Chad be back down y way) for several months. That is why I was curious if that would be a good "plug in play" way to go.

Sounds like I will probably just stick with my UB820 for the time being.

Appreciate the input.
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post #14109 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Dolby Vision only works if the whole chain supports it. Turning it on in the player doesn't mean anything other than telling the player it can support it. It will see the EDID of the display and just use the HDR10 base layer of the disc. If you're using a DV player with a projector there is zero reason to turn that feature on. Same goes with HDR10+.
OK, thanks!

Correct me if I am wrong but, theoretically speaking, could not the DV data be used to produce the SDR2020 signal? Or is it actually impossible because SDR2020 is not really SDR?

Anyway, thanks a bunch for the info.!
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post #14110 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Honey1 View Post
OK, thanks!

Correct me if I am wrong but, theoretically speaking, could not the DV data be used to produce the SDR2020 signal? Or is it actually impossible because SDR2020 is not really SDR?

Anyway, thanks a bunch for the info.!
Maybe if you are using a Dolby Vision TV, but not with a projector. But if you are connected to a Dolby Vision TV, why would you want to?
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post #14111 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
What issues are you having with their tone map? It isn't as good as some solutions out there, and obviously if there is no metadata to work with there can be frustration, but otherwise it is one of the better out there and by far the best I've seen so far for a stock tone map in a projector.

Fresh out of the box with minimal calibration, I was having issues with badly clipped highlights. But I've made some adjustments based on Manni's calibration thread and a conversation with Ralph P, and it's looking better now. Still not certain I'm getting the best out of it yet, though. HDR is such a pain in the neck.
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post #14112 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Anything you do in an installation mode is saved, because you are making the changes live, in that mode, so no reason to save it. Think of it as going into a room and moving the furniture around. When you have the room how you want it, you stop and walk out.

What about the manual iris setting? That doesn't seem to save to any mode. I'd like to open the iris up a click when I zoom up to 2.35:1. Although the projector will save different iris settings between SDR or HDR, I can't seem to get it to save different iris settings within either of those formats. Wherever the iris is currently is where it stays even after switching mode. I have to manually adjust it every time.

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post #14113 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
What about the manual iris setting? That doesn't seem to save to any mode. I'd like to open the iris up a click when I zoom up to 2.35:1. Although the projector will save different iris settings between SDR or HDR, I can't seem to get it to save different iris settings within either of those formats. Wherever the iris is currently is where it stays even after switching mode. I have to manually adjust it every time.
By mode do you mean the iris setting stays the same no matter the installation mode (but does change with picture mode)? Yes, it would be useful if you could assign Picture Mode per installation for SDR and HDR, so you could open the iris a little when zooming to scope. Maybe something Mike/Craig/Cleveland/Kris can forward to JVC for future.

Before I got the DCR lens, the macro on my Harmony would change picture mode and lens memory appropriately when I chose scope or widescreen settings so that brightness was equalized as possible.

Last edited by dlinsley; 07-21-2019 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Added macro to switch picture mode when switching lens memory
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post #14114 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Maybe if you are using a Dolby Vision TV, but not with a projector. But if you are connected to a Dolby Vision TV, why would you want to?
Indeed! I guess my question boils down to: how are conversion algorithms between HDR and SDR working, and why could there not be somewhere in the not too distant future conversion algorithms from DV to SDR? And would these algorithms bring anything better than conversion algorithms from HDR10 to SDR? May be these questions are stupid. If so, sorry to bother you with them.
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post #14115 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
What about the manual iris setting? That doesn't seem to save to any mode. I'd like to open the iris up a click when I zoom up to 2.35:1. Although the projector will save different iris settings between SDR or HDR, I can't seem to get it to save different iris settings within either of those formats. Wherever the iris is currently is where it stays even after switching mode. I have to manually adjust it every time.
Iris setting is tied to picture mode, not installation mode. But if you set it different for HDR and SDR, it should indeed be different when the projector switches between the modes. Remember, the JVC projectors will automatically go to the HDR10 picture mode when they get an HDR signal (or the picture mode you assign specifically in the HDR picture option) and then back to whatever the last picture mode was that you selected manually. If you only use two picture modes, you should be able to get it to switch between the two automatically without ever having to manually switch. Some people select something manually on occasion and it messes up the back and forth for SDR/HDR.
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post #14116 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
.... If you're using a DV player with a projector there is zero reason to turn that feature on. Same goes with HDR10+....
Wouldn't Madvr/Envy solve that with dynamic tone mapping for all sources? ... I've got my fingers crossed.

Last edited by catav; 07-21-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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post #14117 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 03:51 PM
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By mode do you mean the iris setting stays the same no matter the installation mode (but does change with picture mode)? Yes, it would be useful if you could assign Picture Mode per installation for SDR and HDR, so you could open the iris a little when zooming to scope.
Yeas, I feel exactly the same way. On the RS520 remote “Lens Memory 1” etc were renamed “Mode 1” etc, and at first I thought they did something to integrate the lens memory settings into modes, but unfortunately no such luck.
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post #14118 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 05:12 PM
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Wouldn't Madvr/Envy solve that with dynamic tone mapping for all sources? ... I've got my fingers crossed.
Envy is its own tone mapping solution similar to Lumagen Radiance Pro. Doesn't have anything to do with Dolby Vision. I imagine it will be similar to Lumagen (dynamic and input agnostic) but will also most likely be priced for the higher end market, similar to the Lumagen.
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post #14119 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Envy is its own tone mapping solution similar to Lumagen Radiance Pro. Doesn't have anything to do with Dolby Vision. I imagine it will be similar to Lumagen (dynamic and input agnostic) but will also most likely be priced for the higher end market, similar to the Lumagen.
If it is going to work like it currently does, then yes, very much, higher end market, because to do what it does, I do not see how it could work SOC.
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post #14120 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
.... Envy is its own tone mapping solution similar to Lumagen RadianEnce Pro. Doesn't have anything to do with Dolby Vision...
So would Dolby Vision become a moot point with MadVr/Envy or would DV still offer an advantage over projection technology? Would projectors have the same advantage (trying to play) DV content as DV compatible flat panels when using Envy?... Seems like it would be a wash, unless there is something about DV I don't understand. I guess the real question is wouldn't Envy be DV compatible?

Last edited by catav; 07-22-2019 at 09:18 AM.
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post #14121 of 14939 Old 07-21-2019, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by catav View Post
So would Dolby Vision become a mute point with MadVr/Envy or would DV still offer an advantage over projection technology? Would projectors have the same advantage (trying to play) DV content as DV compatible flat panels when using Envy?... Seems like it would be a wash, unless there is something about DV I don't understand. I guess the real question is wouldn't Envy be DV compatible?
No. They are competing methods for HDR tone mapping.
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post #14122 of 14939 Old 07-22-2019, 02:43 AM
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Apparently new units come with fw 2.08. Factory release? Anyone know the change log?
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post #14123 of 14939 Old 07-22-2019, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
What about the manual iris setting? That doesn't seem to save to any mode. I'd like to open the iris up a click when I zoom up to 2.35:1. Although the projector will save different iris settings between SDR or HDR, I can't seem to get it to save different iris settings within either of those formats. Wherever the iris is currently is where it stays even after switching mode. I have to manually adjust it every time.
You have two separate and unrelated menus. Everything in the installation menu saves to installation mode presets. Everything in the picture menu saves to the picture mode selected. Both are live edit with no save button required. If you have automation and you want to switch aspect and picture mode, it requires 2 commands sent to the projector. One to select the installation mode, one to select the picture mode.

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post #14124 of 14939 Old 07-22-2019, 02:55 AM
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Indeed! I guess my question boils down to: how are conversion algorithms between HDR and SDR working, and why could there not be somewhere in the not too distant future conversion algorithms from DV to SDR? And would these algorithms bring anything better than conversion algorithms from HDR10 to SDR? May be these questions are stupid. If so, sorry to bother you with them.
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Wouldn't Madvr/Envy solve that with dynamic tone mapping for all sources? ... I've got my fingers crossed.
These problems are solved by madVR. It doesn't need the DV data that the mastering engineer stored, however. It measures the frame itself and determines the mapping frame-by-frame that way. So it's better because if the DV data is wrong, the playback is still correct.

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So would Dolby Vision become a mute point with MadVr/Envy or would DV still offer an advantage over projection technology? Would projectors have the same advantage (trying to play) DV content as DV compatible flat panels when using Envy?... Seems like it would be a wash, unless there is something about DV I don't understand. I guess the real question is wouldn't Envy be DV compatible?
The dynamic tone mapping should be better than DV. Rather than relying on some meta on the disk to tell the display how it should map each frame it simply measures each frame and doesn't care about the meta data. In theory, DV and dynamic tone mapping could be about the same if you were guaranteed the DV data to be very accurate. But we are talking about disks that are HDR compliant that don't have any meta data *at all*. So we are going to expect them to meticulously get frame-by-frame meta correct? Good luck with that. I'll take something that measures the frames real time over anything done at the mastering end.
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post #14125 of 14939 Old 07-22-2019, 07:31 AM
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Iris setting is tied to picture mode, not installation mode. But if you set it different for HDR and SDR, it should indeed be different when the projector switches between the modes. Remember, the JVC projectors will automatically go to the HDR10 picture mode when they get an HDR signal (or the picture mode you assign specifically in the HDR picture option) and then back to whatever the last picture mode was that you selected manually. If you only use two picture modes, you should be able to get it to switch between the two automatically without ever having to manually switch. Some people select something manually on occasion and it messes up the back and forth for SDR/HDR.
I'm more frustrated than ever on this point. This is a horrible, non-intuitive and user-unfriendly menu system that apparently cannot do something incredibly simple that every other projector on the market with automated lens shift will do with a single button push.

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post #14126 of 14939 Old 07-22-2019, 07:38 AM
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What about the manual iris setting? That doesn't seem to save to any mode. I'd like to open the iris up a click when I zoom up to 2.35:1. Although the projector will save different iris settings between SDR or HDR, I can't seem to get it to save different iris settings within either of those formats. Wherever the iris is currently is where it stays even after switching mode. I have to manually adjust it every time.
You need to make user custom picture settings for those. I have 4 I use: HDR Wide, HDR Narrow, SDR Wide, SDR Narrow. The difference being the manual iris settings. I have the HDR default set to HDR Wide since more films are scope, but you still have to manually change the picture setting for other material. Just something you get used to. I find that closing the iris 2 to 3 steps for narrow ARs generally equalizes things.

Also if you haven't make sure you setup masking for the various ARs in the installation modes. I love that the new models remember this for each mode.

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post #14127 of 14939 Old 07-22-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Iris setting is tied to picture mode, not installation mode. But if you set it different for HDR and SDR, it should indeed be different when the projector switches between the modes. Remember, the JVC projectors will automatically go to the HDR10 picture mode when they get an HDR signal (or the picture mode you assign specifically in the HDR picture option) and then back to whatever the last picture mode was that you selected manually. If you only use two picture modes, you should be able to get it to switch between the two automatically without ever having to manually switch. Some people select something manually on occasion and it messes up the back and forth for SDR/HDR.
That's what I do with my RS4500, which works the same as these new models. I haven't felt a need for more modes, but it wouldn't be bad to have more options.
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post #14128 of 14939 Old 07-22-2019, 08:12 AM
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Has anyone experienced poor quality video when watching 4k Blu-ray’s? I have noticed on a few occasions so far where there was heavy pixelation during certain parts of a film. It’s definitely not bandwidth related as it occurs at the exact time and can also be paused to showcase the issue.

One particular movie was Spider-Man homecoming.

The scene when Spider-Man is visited by Ironman on top of the building right after the ferry incident.

Here is what I am talking about...

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I am using a Panasonic ub820 with my nx9. Video is passed through a denon AVR-6400.

JVC DLA-NX9 | Panasonic UB820 | Denon AVR-X6400H | Rotel RB 993 Amp | 135" 2:35:1 Elunevision Aurora NanoEdge Ambient Light Blocking Screen | Paradigm Monitor 11 v7, Monitor Center 3 v7, Monitor Surround 3 v7, CI Pro P65-R |
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post #14129 of 14939 Old 07-22-2019, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by yankiy View Post
Has anyone experienced poor quality video when watching 4k Blu-ray’s? I have noticed on a few occasions so far where there was heavy pixelation during certain parts of a film. It’s definitely not bandwidth related as it occurs at the exact time and can also be paused to showcase the issue.<snip>

I am using a Panasonic ub820 with my nx9.
The issue may be with the UB820:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post58325620
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post #14130 of 14939 Old 07-22-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I haven't seen that issue with my UB820 yet, except at the very start of " Us " the other day. Ejecting the disc and putting it back in solved that. Sometimes things get off on the wrong foot. If it happened mid - movie I'd be unhappy.
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