Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1441 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
UHD player -> projector -> audio receiver

For now I will do:

Panasonic 820 HDMI -> projector
Panasonic 820 Analog Audio -> Receiver 7-channel input

Eventually it will of course be be:

HDMI sources -> Receiver -> Projector
"UHD player -> projector -> audio receiver". This would require an HDMI output on a projector. And for ARC to work you have to have an HDMI connection between the two devices.
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post #1442 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post
While I agree with your sentiment, he’s looking for a way to connect his 4K sources directly to the projector and return the audio to his receiver, which will not pass through 4K video. ARC would accomplish this. I think that some short-throw projectors, such as those by LG, include TV tuners and streaming apps, like regular TVs. I think that ARC is built into these projectors. None of the usual home theaters projectors do this. And there are better ways of doing this, including dual outputs on Blu-ray players and HDMI switches/splitters. Never before heard of anyone expecting such projectors to include ARC.


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No it would not, because there is no HDMI output on a projector. And if it had an HDMI output, you would not need arc, but I guess it could be used.
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post #1443 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE:

OK so the contrast performance of this particular unit that I have here is not even close to the performance of @Dj Dee 's unit.

This is because this unit has a lot of light scatter and internal reflections going on; something which I do not believe that @Dj Dee 's unit is experiencing to anything like the same degree.

The good news is that given @Dj Dee 's unit is NOT doing this, then this could mean that my unit is not typical and in fact might even be a defective unit.

What is concerning me the most is that this unit is measuring circa 20% below JVC's factory specification with respect to native ON/OFF contrast, as well as at least 30% below JVC's pre-existing typical factory specification for ANSI as well.

Therefore, please do NOT consider this to be what is expected to be the typical performance of the JVC RS3000/NX9

The fact of the matter is that I need to and will be evaluating a further FOUR units. Only once we have more data points can conclusions be drawn.

LOW LAMP MODE:

IRIS 0 = 25,400:1
IRIS -7 = 43,064:1
IRIS -15 = 73,045:1
ANSI = 175:1


HIGH LAMP MODE:

IRIS 0 = 25,080:1
IRIS -7 = 48,040:1
IRIS -15 = 83,662:1
ANSI = 175:1

The previously insanely high peak DYNAMIC ON/OFF now measures 247,345:1








As mentioned there is a lot of light scatter and internal reflections going on; and this is manifesting very significant amounts of BLOOMING and CLOUDING which is hammering the contrast performance of this unit:









Last edited by ARROW-AV; 01-12-2019 at 03:23 PM.
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post #1444 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisLJacob View Post
Thanks Arrow. My main concern is if the eshift mechanism is always present in the lens or light engine (not that I know what that entails) is causing a performance issue even turned off. I can understand the larger, better lens and light output as the main or only valid reasons for the n9 over the n7. I agree that the 8k eshift is a bogus feature given no 8k inputs on the projector or handling of 8k processing.

The only other comparison is the actual performance of these two projectors so folks can determine if there is a perceived improvement or value in choosing the n9.
This is no different than the last three generations.
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post #1445 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
UPDATE:

OK so the contrast performance of this particular unit that I have here is not even close to the performance of @Dj Dee 's unit.

This is because this unit has a lot of light scatter and internal reflections going on; something which I do not believe that @Dj Dee 's unit is experiencing to anything like the same degree.

The good news is that given @Dj Dee 's unit is NOT doing this, then this could mean that my unit is not typical and in fact might even be a defective unit.
I may well have missed it - do you guys have similar levels of lens shift?

Edit; one thing you can try which I find interesting sometimes is to display just a single patch window in the middle of the screen, and hold up a piece of black card to block the light of the actual patch reaching the screen. Then you can easily see / capture the streaking characteristics and experiment with shift / zoom / iris for comparison purpose.
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Last edited by bobof; 01-12-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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post #1446 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Your receiver doesn't have an HDMI input? I realize it may be older and not pass 4K, but the Panasonic has dual outputs, so you can pass video to the projector and audio to the AVR separate. The audio output is typically only 1080p video (blank) with the audio signal. This should work better than analog.
Yes I have HDMI input so this is great news! Sorry I didn't know about the dual outputs on the Panasonic 820. That will work perfectly.

I have a 40% coupon with Emotiva, hence holding out for the RMC-1 if they can solve its problems
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post #1447 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
Yes I have HDMI input so this is great news! Sorry I didn't know about the dual outputs on the Panasonic 820. That will work perfectly.

I have a 40% coupon with Emotiva, hence holding out for the RMC-1 if they can solve its problems
At 40% off I can see why you are holding out for the RMC-1, but I don't have much faith in it ever being right. Have you looked at the HTP-1?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...processor.html

And so I am not completely off topic, would be a great match component wise to an RS3000.
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post #1448 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
UPDATE:

OK so the contrast performance of this particular unit that I have here is not even close to the performance of @Dj Dee 's unit.

This is because this unit has a lot of light scatter and internal reflections going on; something which I do not believe that @Dj Dee 's unit is experiencing to anything like the same degree.

The good news is that given @Dj Dee 's unit is NOT doing this, then this could mean that my unit is not typical and in fact might even be a defective unit.

Did your numbers actually go down from v1.16 to v1.17? Is it possible this scatter/blooming issue could be caused by something involving the N9's e-shift element, or is it totally unrelated? Has anyone with an N7 had this problem? Did JVC ever confirm that the issues they were having were for the whole N-series or is it possible it was only for the N9 and they held up delivery on the whole series to try to fix it?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
After the update v1.16 I did some new measurements.

Did you mean after the v.1.17 update?
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post #1449 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
How does the 1080p version look with e-shift off?
e-shift off

e-shift on

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post #1450 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
talking abut colour profiles. with this new range, From my memory when watched the jvc video, was it the "cinema" profile that engaged the p3 filter ? "natural" would not I imagine. does it mean you use 'natural' for SDR/blu-ray and such and 'Cinema' for und HDR ? this is just for out of box ?

or does it just engage p3 filter automatically when it detects uhd HDR or something ?

just wondering how the new range work.

it seems there is some change in selecting profiles and such ?
I haven't tried all the combinations but this is what I've seen so far:

for SDR colour profiles: no filter on BT709, Filter engaged for Cinema (looks oversaturated) and Film1 and Film profiles (stylized but quite nice).
For HDR colour profiles: No filter in HDR, Filter engaged in BT2020.

As I mentioned earlier the filter is engaged gently so there is no clunking sound anymore. You have to really listen for it.

The default out of the box HDR10 picture mode uses the the HDR colour profile without the filter engaged. I setup a user HDR BT2020 picture mode and set that as the default HDR picture mode.

The HDR colour profile without the filter engaged does look really good though (future NX5 owners take note). If you aren't using test patterns or doing an immediate A/B comparison against BT2020 you would be unlikely to notice the difference.

The brightness drop from the filter is pretty modest. My light meter isn't accurate enough to be very useful here but I would estimate 15-20% light loss.
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post #1451 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:19 PM
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I know we have seen comparison screen shots of Interstellar and the Fox showing the difference between the X9900 and the NX9….
But is there anyone who upscales 2K material via madvr to 4K and checked the difference between the X9900 and the NX9?
It would be great to see some A/B comparisons from madvr upscaling to 4K.

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post #1452 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1453 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:24 PM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
No it would not, because there is no HDMI output on a projector. And if it had an HDMI output, you would not need arc, but I guess it could be used.


There are likewise no HDMI outputs as such on TVs. ARC stands for audio return channel, which allows an HDMI cable to carry video from a receiver or other source to the TV and audio the other way from the TV to the receiver. The HDMI input on a TV labeled ARC not only receivers video, it can output audio. One cable can carry video one way and audio the other way. People routinely connect a single cable between their receiver and TV. That cable does double duty. A few projectors, like the short-throw ones from LG, have this capability, just as they have built-in tuners and streaming apps like regular TVs. But again I agree that standard home theater projectors do no feature ARC in their HDMI inputs.

Steve Goff

Last edited by Steve Goff; 01-12-2019 at 03:29 PM.
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post #1454 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
One thing if for sure, when taking that picture you need a tripod and a remote shutter button. Was that used?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Th601 View Post
I have a NX7 on order. This will be my very first projector. I hope the DI works on it.


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It will need a further FW update to work properly but it "works".... this according to JVC
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post #1455 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
eShift 8K add absolutely ZERO value. Seriously almost everyone will be turning it off.

Sorry, but that's just the honest truth of the matter.

As soon as my camera is working again (likely Tuesday) I will posts some photos demonstrating why you don't want it turned on

The added value of the RS3000/NX9 versus the RS2000/NX9 is theoretically the superior lens and slightly higher contrast. The lens is the biggy

One advantage - for me - of the NX9 lens is that is has a slightly shorter short throw than the NX7. For me, that makes the difference between being able to mount the projector, versus having to dig a hole in the back wall of my (relatively short) room, which my wife was not too happy about! The other good features that come along were secondary; otherwise I would have got the NX7. So it was either the NX9 or a Sony, which also has a slightly shorter available throw.
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post #1456 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Sorry, I forgot to mention that the previously insanely high DYNAMIC ON/OFF now measures 247,345:1

The Dynamic ON/OFF dropped from 746000:1 to 247000:1 because you changed Zoom from Medium Zoom to Max Zoom or because going from 1.16 to 1.17 firmware?

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post #1457 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
There is an issue with the NX7 that if you use the dynamic iris with the manual aperture closed at all the bulb immediately goes into overdrive and blows up. JVC has already stated this is a known problem and that any use of this is at the user's discretion and not covered by warranty.
Finally we know why they gave a free replacement bulb
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post #1458 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
The Dynamic ON/OFF dropped from 746000:1 to 247000:1 because you changed Zoom from Medium Zoom to Max Zoom or because going from 1.16 to 1.17 firmware?
Both

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post #1459 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
This is no different than the last three generations.
Mike, I don't have any JVC experience or knowledge. My first and only PJ was a Epson UB1080 purchased from you a long time ago. So I don't know how the JVC eshift system works. Hence my question on whether or not the n9 eshift system is always in the way whether turned on or off and if that affects the performance of the n9 vs. the n7.
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post #1460 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I wasn't even aware of this while at CES - and I'm already back home. I'm sure sure this will be sorted out soon enough. Maybe before many more even ship.
I was at CES JVC suite just before Craig by an hour or two and asked about the DI. I was unaware a bug had been found, just wondered if it worked at all. They said it "worked" but will work better after a FW update. The 3000 was on Auto 2 when I saw it and I saw no problem with DI. The main problem I saw was that I had to figure out how to buy one ....at least I can enjoy my 640 in the meantime!

It would be REALLY hard to give a comparison to my 640 since there were a ton of variables besides the PJ. Content was authored in 8K then recorded 4k and shifted back to 8K, Screen was an SI Slate and mine is a Cima. Content was chosen for impact and detail....obviously. But it was extraordinary a picture....
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post #1461 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:48 PM
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Contrast test images, source?

Is there somewhere these sample images are available, to check when mine arrives?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post






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post #1462 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:49 PM
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Well after testing the RS4500 in my house for a night, including its dynamic dimming, I have upgraded my RS3000 preorder to an RS4500 which I guess will ship right away. So there should be one more RS3000 available for someone

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post #1463 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Both

Well, worth mention that your 175:1 ANSI is now very close to Ekki's ANSI of 150:1 which make me believe that your "production unit" could be from the same batch of the "pre production unit" Ekki tested.... Most definitely something is fishy with your unit and I really hope it's defective as I have my eye on a NX7 for the end of the year.
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post #1464 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Well after testing the RS4500 in my house for a night, including its dynamic dimming, I have upgraded my RS3000 preorder to an RS4500 which I guess will ship right away. So there should be one more RS3000 available for someone
WOW.... Congratulations and you most definitely did a very wise move!!

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post #1465 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Well after testing the RS4500 in my house for a night, including its dynamic dimming, I have upgraded my RS3000 preorder to an RS4500 which I guess will ship right away. So there should be one more RS3000 available for someone
I tried a PM but don't have enough posts yet to do that I'm interested in the ceiling mount in your profile pic. Did you build that? If so, do you have any info on how to go about doing so? I'm thinking of building something like that for my N7--needs to be sturdy. I seem to remember someone on the anticipation thread talking about building something similar. Thanks!
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post #1466 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Well, worth mention that your 175:1 ANSI is now very close to Ekki's ANSI of 150:1 which make me believe that your "production unit" could be from the same batch of the "pre production unit" Ekki tested.... Most definitely something is fishy with your unit and I really hope it's defective as I have my eye on a NX7 for the end of the year.


I’m interested in seeing the four other NX9s he’s going to test.

Do we have any tests done on NX7s yet?
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post #1467 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceJK View Post
I haven't tried all the combinations but this is what I've seen so far:

for SDR colour profiles: no filter on BT709, Filter engaged for Cinema (looks oversaturated) and Film1 and Film profiles (stylized but quite nice).
For HDR colour profiles: No filter in HDR, Filter engaged in BT2020.

As I mentioned earlier the filter is engaged gently so there is no clunking sound anymore. You have to really listen for it.

The default out of the box HDR10 picture mode uses the the HDR colour profile without the filter engaged. I setup a user HDR BT2020 picture mode and set that as the default HDR picture mode.

The HDR colour profile without the filter engaged does look really good though (future NX5 owners take note). If you aren't using test patterns or doing an immediate A/B comparison against BT2020 you would be unlikely to notice the difference.

The brightness drop from the filter is pretty modest. My light meter isn't accurate enough to be very useful here but I would estimate 15-20% light loss.
awesome feedback BruceK. question ? wondering why had to setup a HDR BT2020 mode ? was that with/without filter engaged ? I take it for HDR they have the HDR10 and BT2020 modes one with filter one without ?

what are other SDR modes do they continue on with natural ?

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post #1468 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Well after testing the RS4500 in my house for a night, including its dynamic dimming, I have upgraded my RS3000 preorder to an RS4500 which I guess will ship right away. So there should be one more RS3000 available for someone
Congrats mate!
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post #1469 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1470 of 13950 Old 01-12-2019, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Well, worth mention that your 175:1 ANSI is now very close to Ekki's ANSI of 150:1 which make me believe that your "production unit" could be from the same batch of the "pre production unit" Ekki tested.... Most definitely something is fishy with your unit and I really hope it's defective as I have my eye on a NX7 for the end of the year.
Actually I think that is PRECISELY the situation

Good detective work there Sherlock

As it happens I actually have the complete range of measurements for another different pre-production unit, which are almost identical to mine...

...so it's going to be very illuminating to see what the next 4 number production units measure

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