Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 525 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15721 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 11:32 AM
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Thanks for helping folks, apparently it was a mac formatting issue with the flash drive. Bought a new one and was able to update.
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post #15722 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Dylan's number that I posted is with iris closed. With iris closed the RS1000/NX5 is specced at 40,000:1. The RS2000/NX7 is 1.5 times that. I was just showing that the statement that the contrast of the RS1000/NX5 being better than the RS2000/NX7 is false. Also the poster that said he got 21,000:1 with iris open on NX5. That is very good. Slightly higher than expected.
I meant ours were high compared to his, but got it.
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post #15723 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Yeah, this sounds right. You get 27.5K with a NX7, this is only 1000 less than Kris measured with an NX9, and about 7000 less than the NX5. HDR color mode (without the filter) which is what me and my friend (who uses NX7) also will measure the same, it's just a different color space.

The filter does increase contrast, but even if I had a NX7 I don't think I would use it as I would rather have the lumens for larger screens.

So you can see how from my point of view or even my friends, the difference in contrast is not very much and even the addition of the color filter is not significant either. This is why the NX5 can be such a good value and choice for some people based on how they are going to use it.
7000 (25%) *more* than the NX5, not less.

If you have a large screen, you probably have to use high lamp, in which case using the filter only loses 10% of brightness. I think it would be mad to not want to trade 10% of brightness against better contrast and wider gamut, but that's just me.

The NX5 is a great pj and it's absolutely fine to be happy with it, but I don't think that using actual or estimated numbers from various sources and negating, ignoring or misunderstanding advantages of the higher models is a clever way to justify one's decision.

Whether each model is worth the difference in price over the next one is up to each individual, what their priorities are, and where they come from as well as in which room they are using their PJ.

Coming from an excellent rs500 (X7000) in a bat cave, I knew that there was no way I'd be happy with an rs1000. I didn't want to lose the filter and get less than half the native contrast, because I want to watch a picture as close to reference as possible, with the best possible native black floor (especially in HDR as I don't use the DI) and my screen is small, so I'm not starved for brightness.

But had I come from a lower model, or if my room was a non dedicated living room, or if I had such a large screen that I couldn't afford to lose 10% brightness, or if I didn't care about displaying a reference picture, I sure I would have been very happy with an rs1000.

What I'm saying is that unless the same competent individual measures (not with an i1d3) different units for each model in an optimized environment, and shares them without having an agenda or a clear bias, you don't really have a case. There is unit to unit variation, but overall given the data that I have measured myself, the specs and other reliable sources around, the numbers you have used to state that there was only 3K difference (10% better) between the NX5 and the NX7 simply don't tally. Aztar35 reports 7000K (25% better), my measurements 10K (50%) better. Believe whoever you want to, but in any case your initial statement was way off.

There is a significant contrast difference between the RS1000/NX5 and the higher models, and in the right environment that difference will show, even with the iris fully open, Of course it will become even larger as you close the iris. Whether that's important or significant enough is up to each individual. This contrast difference is only one of the differences between the lower model and it's bigger brothers. It's not because you don't care about reaching full DCI-P3 that no one else does. I've seen your native gamut with a significantly undersaturated green, and I know that I would never be able to live with that picture, even if for most users it will be absolutely fine if properly calibrated.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that the NX5/RS1000 isn't a great projector that will meet the needs of many. I just don't appreciate the misinformation posted regarding the differences between the models, just to justify a personal choice, that's all.
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post #15724 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I tried two and sent them back before getting the Discus.
Manni, I am thinking of getting a meter to calibrate my RS3000. I have the Spyder5Elite for gamma but have been thinking about getting either the X-rite i1pro2 or the Calman C6 HDR meter.

What is the Discus meter? I haven't heard of it.
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post #15725 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Dylan's number that I posted is with iris closed. With iris closed the RS1000/NX5 is specced at 40,000:1. The RS2000/NX7 is 1.5 times that. I was just showing that the statement that the contrast of the RS1000/NX5 being better than the RS2000/NX7 is false. Also the poster that said he got 21,000:1 with iris open on NX5. That is very good. Slightly higher than expected.
Thanks Mike.

To clarify, as I already stated previously, I used my full open numbers because SirMaster used full open numbers.

I measure 85,000:1 iris fully closed. [EDIT: correction, this is with the DI, it's 57,000:1 native iris closed.]

All the measurements are in the calibration thread already mentioned, but I attach some of them here, taken with my Minolta T10 in my bat cave (0nits ambient light).
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post #15726 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
Manni, I am thinking of getting a meter to calibrate my RS3000. I have the Spyder5Elite for gamma but have been thinking about getting either the X-rite i1pro2 or the Calman C6 HDR meter.

What is the Discus meter? I haven't heard of it.
Spyder5 for gamma and i1pro2 for color is the best combination if you want to be able to use the JVC Autocal (please ask any further questions on that subject in the calibration thread).

The Discus is a great meter but it's not supported by JVC (yet). Neither is the C6. As you already have a Spyder5, the best addition would be an i1pro2, so you can use that to measure color in the JVC Autocal and to train your Spyder5 in any other software supporting both (most do).

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post #15727 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
7000 (25%) *more* than the NX5, not less.

If you have a large screen, you probably have to use high lamp, in which case using the filter only loses 10% of brightness. I think it would be mad to not want to trade 10% of brightness against better contrast and wider gamut, but that's just me.

The NX5 is a great pj and it's absolutely fine to be happy with it, but I don't think that using actual or estimated numbers from various sources and negating, ignoring or misunderstanding advantages of the higher models is a clever way to justify your decision.

Whether each model is worth the difference in price over the next one is up to each individual, what their priorities are, and where they come from as well as in which room they are using their PJ.

Coming from an excellent rs500 (X7000) in a bat cave, I knew that there was no way I'd be happy with an rs1000. I didn't want to lose the filter and get less than half the native contrast, because I want to watch a picture as close to reference as possible, with the best possible native black floor (especially in HDR as I don't use the DI) and my screen is small, so I'm not starving for brightness.

But had I come from a lower model, or if my room was a non dedicated living room, or if I had such a large screen that I couldn't afford to lose 10% brightness, or if I didn't care about displaying a reference picture, I sure I would have been very happy with an rs1000.

What I'm saying is that unless the same competent individual measures (not with an i1d3) different units for each model in an optimized environment, and shares them without having an agenda or a clear bias, you don't really have a case. There is unit to unit variation, but overall given the data that I have measured myself, the specs and other reliable sources around, the numbers you have used to state that there was only 3K difference (10% better) between the NX5 and the NX7 simply don't tally. Aztar35 reports 7000K (25% better), my measurements 10K (50%) better. Believe whoever you want to, but in any case your initial statement was way off.

There is a significant contrast difference between the RS1000/NX5 and the higher models, and in the right environment that difference will show, even with the iris fully open, Of course it will become even larger as you close the iris. Whether that's important or significant enough is up to each individual. This contrast difference is only one of the differences between the lower model and it's bigger brothers. It's not because you don't care about reaching full DCI-P3 that no one else does. I've seen your native gamut with a significantly undersaturated green, and I know that I would never be able to live with that picture, even if for most users it will be absolutely fine if properly calibrated.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that the NX5/RS1000 isn't a great projector that will meet the needs of many. I just don't appreciate the misinformation posted regarding the differences between the models, just to justify a personal choice, that's all.
I agree on the BT2020 filter. It just makes to much difference color wise for me not to use it. But it really seems to be a personal thing. I guess some don't see as much difference and are fine not using it. Thankfully we have a choice.

The degree we think the contrast is visibly different among models is certainly ripe for debate, but thankfully everyone is on the same page that the NX5 being better than the NX7 is demonstrably false. Personally I don't think there is a dud in the NX lineup. All of the models, whether being observed by a professional or just us lowly enthusiasts, seem to really throw a spectacular image.
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post #15728 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
7000 (25%) *more* than the NX5, not less.

If you have a large screen, you probably have to use high lamp, in which case using the filter only loses 10% of brightness. I think it would be mad to not want to trade 10% of brightness against better contrast and wider gamut, but that's just me.

The NX5 is a great pj and it's absolutely fine to be happy with it, but I don't think that using actual or estimated numbers from various sources and negating, ignoring or misunderstanding advantages of the higher models is a clever way to justify your decision.

Whether each model is worth the difference in price over the next one is up to each individual, what their priorities are, and where they come from as well as in which room they are using their PJ.

Coming from an excellent rs500 (X7000) in a bat cave, I knew that there was no way I'd be happy with an rs1000. I didn't want to lose the filter and get less than half the native contrast, because I want to watch a picture as close to reference as possible, with the best possible native black floor (especially in HDR as I don't use the DI) and my screen is small, so I'm not starving for brightness.

But had I come from a lower model, or if my room was a non dedicated living room, or if I had such a large screen that I couldn't afford to lose 10% brightness, or if I didn't care about displaying a reference picture, I sure I would have been very happy with an rs1000.

What I'm saying is that unless the same competent individual measures (not with an i1d3) different units for each model in an optimized environment, and shares them without having an agenda or a clear bias, you don't really have a case. There is unit to unit variation, but overall given the data that I have measured myself, the specs and other reliable sources around, the numbers you have used to state that there was only 3K difference (10% better) between the NX5 and the NX7 simply don't tally. Aztar35 reports 7000K (25% better), my measurements 10K (50%) better. Believe whoever you want to, but in any case your initial statement was way off.

There is a significant contrast difference between the RS1000/NX5 and the higher models, even with the iris fully open, and in the right environment that difference will show, even with the iris fully open, Of course it will become even larger as you close the iris. Whether that's important or significant enough is up to each individual. This contrast difference is only one of the differences between the lower model and it's bigger brothers. It's not because you don't care about reaching full DCI-P3 that no one else does. I've seen your native gamut with a significantly undersaturated green, and I know that I would never be able to live with that picture, even if for most users it will be absolutely fine if properly calibrated.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that the NX5/RS1000 isn't a great projector that will meet the needs of many. I just don't appreciate the misinformation posted regarding the differences between the models, just to justify a personal choice, that's all.
I am not trying to misrepresent anything and I am not going off my own measurement with the i1d3...

I am just looking for reliable measurements and people can make whatever judgements they personally want from them.

I am going off this for NX5:
https://translate.google.com/transla...s%2F%3Fp%3D297

Measured with a K10A
https://avforum.no/forum/avnews/wp-c...3/IMG_4930.jpg

Reading from screen:

Low Lamp, Iris 0: 20,000:1
Low Lamp, Iris -8: 26,000:1
Low Lamp, Iris -15: 37,000:1

High Lamp, Iris 0: 21,000:1
High Lamp, Iris -8: 27,000:1
High Lamp, Iris -15: 36,000:1

Reading from lens with diffuser:

Low Lamp, Iris 0, 24,000:1
Low Lamp, Iris -7, 29,000:1
Low Lamp, Iris -15, 38,000:1

High Lamp, Iris 0, 21,100:1
High Lamp, Iris -7, 26,000:1
High Lamp, Iris -15, 35,000:1

Also said: "In calibrated I used image mode with iris position of -13 (to reach the desired 17FL) it ended with native contrast measured at 41000:1 This with the lamp set to Low, measured against the canvas."

For added data point, from screen with my I1D3:
Low Lamp, Iris 0, 19,800:1

For NX7, posted by Mike:
https://hometheaterreview.com/jvc-dl...viewed/?page=2

Minolta CL-200 meter, (assume measured off lens):

Lamp High, Iris 0, 23,450:1
Lamp High, Iris -15, 62,100:1

For NX9, by Kris D:
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...iew-test-bench

Minolta T-10, 1 meter from lens:

https://www.soundandvision.com/image...vcpjcharts.jpg

I assume this is High Lamp.

High Lamp, Iris 0, 28,600:1
High Lamp, Iris -15, 52,400:1

With the data I had, if you are just using Iris 0, High Lamp, no filter:

NX5: 21,100:1
NX7: 23,400:1
NX9: 28,600:1

Iris closed:

NX5: 35,000:1
NX7: 62,100:1
NX9: 52,400:1

That's just the data I had at that point, anyone can make their own opinions based on the data, the meters used and by the people who did the readings.

If we add more data points, that's great.

I am not trying to tell anyone else what to do or what to think, just what I did and what other friends of mine did.
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post #15729 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 12:25 PM
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@SirMaster

Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions.

That's possibly because your initial post sounded like you were adding credit to the questionable rumor that the NX5 measured *higher* contrast-wise than the higher models, which is ludicrous, or because it looked like you were making the point that the P3 filter isn't useful because it costs too much brightness. If I was wrong, I apologize.

As I said, I trust my measurements and I trust Kris measurements. We both use a Minolta T10, and know how to use it. I have no idea if his unit measures low, or if mine measures high (though the specs for the rs2000 are 80,000:1 and I measure 85,000:1, so I never thought I was far off), but I do know that both units measure 30 to 50% higher than the NX5/RS1000 numbers that you are using as a baseline, not 10% higher as you have initially stated, and none of the measurements that you have produced for the higher models are *below* the NX5, as the rumor suggests.

I agree though that more reliable measurements, from a reliable source, preferably measuring more than one unit of each model, would be welcome.
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post #15730 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
@SirMaster

Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions.

That's possibly because your initial post sounded like you were adding credit to the questionable rumor that the NX5 measured *higher* contrast-wise than the higher models, which is ludicrous, or because it looked like you were making the point that the P3 filter isn't useful because it costs too much brightness. If I was wrong, I apologize.

As I said, I trust my measurements and I trust Kris measurements. We both use a Minolta T10, and know how to use it. I have no idea if his unit measures low, or if mine measures high, but I do know that both units measure 30 to 50% higher than the NX5/RS1000 numbers that you are using as a baseline, not 10% higher as you have initially stated, and none of the measurements that you have produced for the higher models are *below* the NX5, as the rumor suggests.

I agree though that more reliable measurements, from a reliable source, preferably measuring more than one unit of each model, would be welcome.
No, I agree the NX5 ever being better than the NX7 is absurd. It's worse in multiple ways albeit relatively marginally if you ask me, but that's my own opinion only based on my own use cases

The color filter is certainly worth using if you have the brightness heh. I would use it if my screen was smaller or if I was OK with high bulb mode for other reasons. I do seem to recall quite a number of people early on in this thread forgoing the filter for more HDR brightness so I was merely recalling that. However, with the new HDR firmware maybe more will start to use it and that is awesome!

I wish there were more professional reviews of these projectors so we had even more data points as there can be a lot of variables in some of these measurements.
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post #15731 of 18003 Old 09-06-2019, 01:14 PM
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I meant ours were high compared to his, but got it.
Okay. I agree Dylan's native contrast number with iris closed is on the low side of what is typically seen.
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post #15732 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 04:55 AM
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So we saw new firmware of JVC on IFA in Berlin and there is a new profile called "Frame adapt HDR" without possibility of settings of gamma.
They show Aquaman movie in dark and bright scenes on NX9 before and after and in my opinion there is really improvement.

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post #15733 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 05:33 AM
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Just to say that I edited a couple of my posts.

I said yesterday that I measured 85,000:1 with the iris fully closed on my rs2000, which is true but that's with the DI enabled.

Native, I measure nearly 57,000:1 with the iris fully closed, vs 31,000:1 iris fully open. That was with 30 hours on the bulb, and with the Minolta T10.

For completeness, I measure around 212,000:1 iris fully open with the DI enabled.

The numbers are correct in the screenshot I posted above and in the calibration thread (which has a lot more measurements, including ANSI contrast and brightness). I just read the table too quickly.

All this is at D65. In max brightness mode, which is I believe how the specs are calculated, I get 33,000:1 open and around 70,500:1 closed, all native, which isn't far from the specs given my zoom ratio. I'd definitely hit the specs if I was at long throw (which is what the specs are based on), but I'm mid to short throw.
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post #15734 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 06:06 AM
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When a product have problems here at AVS we are quick to critics and brainstorm for a solution and it is fun to do so

But today I want to put critics aside and congrats JVC. Instead of releasing new model they will provide a new firmware update for NX series owner with dynamic tone map and other features. If the dynamic tone map is close to what already exist elsewhere, all JVC owner will be astonish by the difference it will made to there favorite HDR movies.

So for today I take a break and thanks JVC !

But be prepare because tomorrow we will continu our AVS job
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post #15735 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
For completeness, I measure around 212,000:1 iris fully open with the DI enabled.
Honestly, this is a huge bummer. It's nowhere near spec and shows in a poor black floor compared to previous models. These projectors have a much better native contrast ratio than my RS4500, but honestly, my RS4500 beats the NX line in black floor. That should be impossible. And I'm not just talking fade-to-black either.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #15736 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
For completeness, I measure around 212,000:1 iris fully open with the DI enabled.
Honestly, this is a huge bummer. It's nowhere near spec and shows in a poor black floor compared to previous models. These projectors have a much better native contrast ratio than my RS4500, but honestly, my RS4500 beats the NX line in black floor. That should be impossible. And I'm not just talking fade-to-black either.
Black level shows only native contrast, not dynamic.
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post #15737 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Honestly, this is a huge bummer. It's nowhere near spec and shows in a poor black floor compared to previous models. These projectors have a much better native contrast ratio than my RS4500, but honestly, my RS4500 beats the NX line in black floor. That should be impossible. And I'm not just talking fade-to-black either.
You can't compare a model with laser dimming to a mechanical iris, that doesn't make sense.

My Dynamic on/off was much higher on my rs500, but given the DI artifacts on all models (I can't comment on the RS4500, I never saw one) especially when the iris is fully open, it's a moot point for me.

DI is fine in SDR with the iris at -12, and switched off in HDR (iris open) for now. I hope that the frame-by-frame dynamic mapping will fix the blooming experienced by some users in some conditions on the rs1000/2000 (but not for some reasons on the rs3000), and ideally the yellowing as well. Then I'll reconsider.

In any case, the HDR picture on the rs2000 with the DI switched off doesn't lack contrast, even iris fully open. Sure, I'd like a better black floor on fade to black, and I've asked for an option to get that if the DI artifacts can't be fixed, but until and unless the DI significantly improves when the iris is open further than -10, it's a completely moot point for me.

And although I still have my rs500 sitting on a shelf below my rs2000, it's gathering dust, unloved. I have not used it once since I got the rs2000, except to do some brief tests early on. A good picture is the sum of all aspects, and while the rs2000 is a step back in native and dynamic contrast, it's an improvement on everything else: sharpness, color, image stability (no flicker on high APL content), HDMI sync speed, better HDR about to get even better, 3D, Autocal (support of i1pro2, huge improvement for me coming from the rs500). Frankly, there is little to complain. I have minor issues that I'd like to see fixed but no gripe with my rs2000. I enjoy it every single day.

FYI the early f/w of the new models met the specs, but then I guess they judged that the artifacts were not acceptable even for less picky viewers than myself, and they changed the settings.

Should they update the specs? Sure, that would be better because I don't think anyone has met the specs for dynamic contrast with any f/w since the official release. But frankly I'd rather see JVC improve the f/w and deliver new features and bug fixes, which they are doing. They should be commended for that. @RickAVManiac has got it right

I don't understand why you are being so negative in an owner's thread of a product you don't own. Enjoy your RS4500 and stop being sorry for us, we are not

Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders

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post #15738 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 08:18 AM
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When a product have problems here at AVS we are quick to critics and brainstorm for a solution and it is fun to do so

But today I want to put critics aside and congrats JVC. Instead of releasing new model they will provide a new firmware update for NX series owner with dynamic tone map and other features. If the dynamic tone map is close to what already exist elsewhere, all JVC owner will be astonish by the difference it will made to there favorite HDR movies.

So for today I take a break and thanks JVC !

But be prepare because tomorrow we will continu our AVS job
Here Here, its time to play........
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post #15739 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 08:49 AM
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When a product have problems here at AVS we are quick to critics and brainstorm for a solution and it is fun to do so



But today I want to put critics aside and congrats JVC. Instead of releasing new model they will provide a new firmware update for NX series owner with dynamic tone map and other features. If the dynamic tone map is close to what already exist elsewhere, all JVC owner will be astonish by the difference it will made to there favorite HDR movies.



So for today I take a break and thanks JVC !



But be prepare because tomorrow we will continu our AVS job
Amen to that. JVC really stepped up in a big way.

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post #15740 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 09:38 AM
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"Amen to that. JVC really stepped up in a big way."

Except for raising the price on a year old projector by $1000.

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post #15741 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 09:38 AM
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Amen to that. JVC really stepped up in a big way.
I guess they needed to give a little love back as the launch hasn't exactly been silky smooth. There's certainly been a view in recent times that all they've really done in 3 previous model years is torpedo folk's value of their projectors by launching feature poor new models just to have a new model to discuss at CEDIA.
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post #15742 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 09:40 AM
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"Amen to that. JVC really stepped up in a big way."

Except for raising the price on a year old projector by $1000.
Wow didn't know about that is that across the board on all three models

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post #15743 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 10:09 AM
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Wow didn't know about that is that across the board on all three models

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It was said only the NX7/2000

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Honestly, this is a huge bummer. It's nowhere near spec and shows in a poor black floor compared to previous models. These projectors have a much better native contrast ratio than my RS4500, but honestly, my RS4500 beats the NX line in black floor. That should be impossible. And I'm not just talking fade-to-black either.
The mid and top model e-shifter series, beginning with the RS600, was capable of over 500,000:1 with DI active.

It would be interesting though to see what the NX7 produces where it especially counts, in 1% through 5% ADL range. And the NX7 doesn't have the actuator-type mech. in the NX9, so I wonder what effect, if any, its absence has on the NX7 contrast-wise.
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post #15745 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 11:21 AM
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The mid and top model e-shifter series, beginning with the RS600, was capable of over 500,000:1 with DI active.
At what cost though... For many including me, not usably, and I'd have much preferred more conservative options. On my X7900 I just watched a little bit of Lalaland with Auto2 (the scene where it cuts to the very darkly lit brass player). Although the black gets darker, so does the highlight detail. Net result is little actual contrast benefit and an odd presentational effect with the dimming of something that doesn't dim in the original content.
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post #15746 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 11:52 AM
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At what cost though... For many including me, not usably, and I'd have much preferred more conservative options. On my X7900 I just watched a little bit of Lalaland with Auto2 (the scene where it cuts to the very darkly lit brass player). Although the black gets darker, so does the highlight detail. Net result is little actual contrast benefit and an odd presentational effect with the dimming of something that doesn't dim in the original content.
True. That 500,000 is meaningless if you cant use it. I cant even use my DI on my x790 once the iris is open most and especially all the way. The pumping is way too distracting.

Love Manni's idea of an Auto 3 option that only engages on a full fade to black. Would love to see JVC add this.
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post #15747 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 12:19 PM
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Love Manni's idea of an Auto 3 option that only engages on a full fade to black. Would love to see JVC add this.
I still think it is an interesting idea but really can't see how it would work in practice for most people and content. Closing the iris for the fade to black is fine, but opening it can either be done slowly and quietly, or quickly and noisily which will get complaints from those with in room projectors (hush box users would be OK).

If you go for slowly opening it you're then choosing between two further options; either having gamma manipulation to try and make the scene come up quicker from black (so it is the current implementation for coming out of black) or a fake fade in for every faded to black scene.

There is then a further question as to what constitutes "Black". If it only activates on pure black, I think it would likely not activate in many titles, while if it activates on something just above black there may be scenes where you get it opening and closing the iris the content goes back and forth across the threshold. Currently the threshold for the JVC DI closing down fully is a bit above zero, but there are other DI levels above that that mean it doesn't currently pump so much from whatever open position to fully closed (in a dark scene it would already be a bit closed).

Anyway, if JVC can work out an algorithm that drives it with useful results then it would be a good option to have.
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post #15748 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 12:28 PM
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At what cost though... For many including me, not usably, and I'd have much preferred more conservative options. On my X7900 I just watched a little bit of Lalaland with Auto2 (the scene where it cuts to the very darkly lit brass player). Although the black gets darker, so does the highlight detail. Net result is little actual contrast benefit and an odd presentational effect with the dimming of something that doesn't dim in the original content.
The X990 was pretty good though. But I do recall there were some scenes...I forget if it was in Greatest Showman, but I think I wrote that if I opened the iris up all the way, there was some brightness compression and also on white over black credits there was some pumping. But that was it.

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True. That 500,000 is meaningless if you cant use it. I cant even use my DI on my x790 once the iris is open most and especially all the way. The pumping is way too distracting.

Love Manni's idea of an Auto 3 option that only engages on a full fade to black. Would love to see JVC add this.
I have this NX7 now, but it isn't my first projector. And I can see that the DI shows no blooming or no yellowing at all, and no pumping on credits (using Auto 1, iris wide open here). I re-watched a scene where the camera was going back and forth between two faces (two people talking up close in the dark), and with the blacks --and whites-- were excellent while the DI didn't flinch with any artifacts at all.

Bob knows I've been pretty vocal about the pros and cons. And this one does have slightly brighter corners after eyes adjust on FTB. So this sample isn't perfect but I would say its DI pretty much is ...so much so that we had to run tests to make sure it was turned on and operating properly. I don't know what else to say other than this is an outstanding implementation by JVC.
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post #15749 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 12:30 PM
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I still think it is an interesting idea but really can't see how it would work in practice for most people and content. Closing the iris for the fade to black is fine, but opening it can either be done slowly and quietly, or quickly and noisily which will get complaints from those with in room projectors (hush box users would be OK).

If you go for slowly opening it you're then choosing between two further options; either having gamma manipulation to try and make the scene come up quicker from black (so it is the current implementation for coming out of black) or a fake fade in for every faded to black scene.

There is then a further question as to what constitutes "Black". If it only activates on pure black, I think it would likely not activate in many titles, while if it activates on something just above black there may be scenes where you get it opening and closing the iris the content goes back and forth across the threshold. Currently the threshold for the JVC DI closing down fully is a bit above zero, but there are other DI levels above that that mean it doesn't currently pump so much from whatever open position to fully closed (in a dark scene it would already be a bit closed).

Anyway, if JVC can work out an algorithm that drives it with useful results then it would be a good option to have.
I dont know exactly how the engineers would do it, but I'd love to see them take a stab at it since I bet the results would be certainly at least good enough and it would get the thing back a lot of us miss most about using the DI which is those awesome fade to blacks. Making it an OPTION means if we dont like the results, we can simply turn it off. So again, I would love to see this offered as an option. Worst case scenario is we are in the same place we are now with not being able to use the DI and best case we can at least now use the DI to get those great FTB's.
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post #15750 of 18003 Old 09-07-2019, 12:50 PM
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I dont know exactly how the engineers would do it, but I'd love to see them take a stab at it since I bet the results would be certainly at least good enough and it would get the thing back a lot of us miss most about using the DI which is those awesome fade to blacks. Making it an OPTION means if we dont like the results, we can simply turn it off. So again, I would love to see this offered as an option. Worst case scenario is we are in the same place we are now with not being able to use the DI and best case we can at least now use the DI to get those great FTB's.
I guess there is fair chance they've already given it a good go as it is low hanging obvious fruit. I think without a fast responding laser it is just very difficult to do. It would be cool though if it could be made to be useful with a mechanical iris.
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