Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 56 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1651 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
UPDATE

QUICK BROWN FOX:
,

• Interestingly the 'Fat Line' phenomenon is 100% cured by enabling LOW LATENCY. However, like I have said, it’s not actually as bad as it appears to be in the photos.
Nice summary Nigel, but the above point is the most interesting takeaway. So this thick/thin line issue is entirely removed by putting the projector in low latency/gaming mode?

That would suggest the issue on the QBF pattern is almost entirely down to processing?
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post #1652 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceJK View Post
Yes, I ran autocal to fix the gamma droop on the X750 pretty regularly. The light level was set at 108 nits HDR and 60 nits SDR measured off the screen. Towards the end the light level on HDR did top out at 100 nits though. It was getting to be time for a new lamp.

I wasn't expecting to be as impressed as I have been with the NX7. Sometimes life's surprises are pleasant ones.
Thanks. We're all trying to quantify in numbers, test images and other minutiae to the best of our abilities what you've actually experienced in your own environment that you clearly know well; and you had kept on top of the key issues. Look forward to getting to see one myself in the flesh.
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post #1653 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
• Interestingly the 'Fat Line' phenomenon is 100% cured by enabling LOW LATENCY. However, like I have said, it’s not actually as bad as it appears to be in the photos.
I figured this might be the case. I guess there is some knobbling going on somewhere in the pipeline. Nice that you can get rid of it via LL though. JVC had to leave something to sell you an NX90 with next year, didn't they...
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
• My UNIT #1 has slight bright corners, however, I am really only able to notice this with full field black
Can you describe / photograph / quantify them a bit more? My own X7900 measures >120,000:1 in the centre if adjusted right, but the bright corner areas are closer to 20,000:1 and not really corners at all - they extend well into the frame. Perhaps a good strategy for showing the corners performance to some extent would be to carry out an on/off contrast measurement at each of the ANSI contrast positions as well as the centre of the screen.
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post #1654 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceJK View Post
Yes, I ran autocal to fix the gamma droop on the X750 pretty regularly. The light level was set at 108 nits HDR and 60 nits SDR measured off the screen. Towards the end the light level on HDR did top out at 100 nits though. It was getting to be time for a new lamp.

I wasn't expecting to be as impressed as I have been with the NX7. Sometimes life's surprises are pleasant ones.
Bruce since you are one of the very few that have an NX7, is it possible to check one of the patterns supplied by DJ to see if e-shift on the NX9 is adding any booming or not please? This would at least put alot of minds at rest.... https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57430222

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post #1655 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
Dont worry u will figure it out like I did. Let the info flow..
If this is your first projector or jvc your in for a treat..
This is my 2nd JVC as I currently own a RS4810 that I love and I've owned many other projectors over the years from Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, Yamaha, Mitsubishi and JVC. It's just the first time I've ventured into the 4K HDR world so it seems confusing as to what you have to do each time you are watching a regular BR movie or a 4K HDR BR movie. I may be wrong but it seems like you have to always be changing something in the menu. I'm so used to just turning the items on and putting in a disc to enjoy.
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post #1656 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I figured this might be the case. I guess there is some knobbling going on somewhere in the pipeline. Nice that you can get rid of it via LL though. JVC had to leave something to sell you an NX90 with next year, didn't they...

Can you describe / photograph / quantify them a bit more? My own X7900 measures >120,000:1 in the centre if adjusted right, but the bright corner areas are closer to 20,000:1 and not really corners at all - they extend well into the frame. Perhaps a good strategy for showing the corners performance to some extent would be to carry out an on/off contrast measurement at each of the ANSI contrast positions as well as the centre of the screen.
I knew I left something out of my NX7 summary. Bright corners are far, far less than on my X750 though not eliminated.

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post #1657 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post
This is my 2nd JVC as I currently own a RS4810 that I love and I've owned many other projectors over the years from Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, Yamaha, Mitsubishi and JVC. It's just the first time I've ventured into the 4K HDR world so it seems confusing as to what you have to do each time you are watching a regular BR movie or a 4K HDR BR movie. I may be wrong but it seems like you have to always be changing something in the menu. I'm so used to just turning the items on and putting in a disc to enjoy.
Jim I'm with you. On my old Epson, I had AVS calibrate it before shipping. So everything for me was plug and play. Having to make adjustments and choices for each BR disc seems daunting. But those that have been doing this awhile seem to say we'll get used to it in time. I'm just wondering if they watch a third of the movie and then determine what's wrong with the settings and start over again after adjustments are made.













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post #1658 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post
I think I know the VW5000 better than most other as I got this projector 2 month before it was hit the market and I got serial number 1.
Some people from Industrie know what this means.
If you like to read here was a big thread about the 5000 see here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...projector.html
WOW almost 3 years ago… time is running….

It is possible as the 5000 had about 13.000:1 cr. and i guess the NX7 will have been about double than this.
Remember the 5000 had about 4500 lumen and it was the first 4k laser phosphor pr.
If Lygren get a good optic in his NX7 and his screen size is not very large yes this can be the case.
The 5000 development is over 3 years old.

BTW some ask in this tread about a good UHD Disc.
Try Mama Mia 2 very good picture quality super color and nice HDR Effects.
Lygren uses his own fabric V6 which has a gain around 0.82 and his screen is 12' wide, so definitely not small, unless compared to your screen.
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post #1659 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Considering this method is providing an approximation, yes you can use lens shift to position each square for the meter, rather than moving the meter each time

I Figured this would be a good way of keeping the meter to screen relationship the same.
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post #1660 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
That's good news, although I didn't have bright corners on my RS600 either.
I don't have bright corners on my RS4810 either.

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post #1661 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceJK View Post
I originally decided to upgrade from the X750 to the NX7 for the 4K HDR benefits alone. This was due to the major headline changes of native 4K resolution and the auto tone mapping for HDR. I used custom curves on the X750 (3 curves for Dolby Cinema emulation) but felt that this could be better. Because the Apple TV 4K is my primary source the Panasonic 820 doesn't help me.

I assumed that the best I could do for 1080P SDR on the NX7 was to equal the X750 and I actually expected the NX7 to lag behind a bit because of the lower rated on/off contrast.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The NX7 improves on the X750 in every way and the difference is clearly visible in everyday viewing. I'm not talking about pixel peeping at close distances but actually using it like a normal customer would. The new chassis must contain a lot of internal improvements over the previous lineup. Some of these may be small, subtle improvements but they all add up and the end result makes for amazing viewing.

Basically the image looks like a giant 110 inch 21:9 OLED all the time. I haven't seen a single flaw to mar the picture when viewing from 2X screen height which is really close. Nothing distracts you from the viewing experience.

1. The image is calm, crisp, and incredibly detailed.
2. No lamp flicker or video noise.
3. There is no streaking or ghosting visible on real world content from a normal viewing distance. Much better than my X750.
4. Overall contrast performance matches the X750.
5. Superb convergence even at 4K resolution.
6. No stuck pixels detected (out of 24 million!).
7. Motion is much better. I don't use CMD but even straight 24p telecine motion is noticeably cleaner.
8. The auto tone mapping for HDR is excellent. It's just plug and play assuming the metadata is decent and easy to adjust manually if its not.
9. The HDMI handshake is nearly twice as fast as the X750 and rock solid. I haven't had a single glitch or dropout on any source.
10. Build quality is high. Fit and finish is excellent though I do miss the high gloss black.
The improved motion is the one thing that I am very happy to see and would be something I would ramp up my timeline on purchasing a NX7. I can't stand using CMD and have been waiting for JVC to improve the "out of the box" motion for awhile. Reading this is very encouraging.
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post #1662 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:17 PM
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So have NX7 started shipping to customers in the US?

My dealer says ETA for my NX7 is Jan 16 - but it's a best buy type store so never trust their dates
Outside of the USA there are a few owners, otherwise nadda.......
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post #1663 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:18 PM
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UPDATE

OK folks, this will be the final update before I have to take a timeout for a couple of days, by which time I will have my professional photography equipment fully operational again and will be able to take some decent photos to demonstrate some of what I am about to say...

So, having done some further evaluating, salient points as per follows:


QUICK BROWN FOX:

• It is important to note both that this test pattern is the ultimate torture test for projectors and that we are deep diving here and employing microscopic scrutiny at the pixel level. Minor imperfections will almost certainly be imperceptible when it comes to actual video content. Therefore, it is very important not to take minor imperfections with greater weight nor make a ‘bigger deal’ of them than is appropriate.

The fact of the matter is that NO projector will perform 100% perfectly with this test pattern and there is only one projector so far to date that achieves near perfection and that is the Christie ‘Ultimate’ projector. Wherein, the JVC RS3000/NX9 produces performance with respect to the quick brown fox test pattern that is very good indeed and superior as compared with many other projectors.

• The 'Fat Line' phenomenon that affects only the RED, BLUE, and MAGENTA vertical lines is in reality not as severe as is indicated in the photos that I previously posted due to poor photographic accuracy due to my professional camera developing a fault and having to resort to using my crappy backup camera. I will have my professional photography equipment fully operational again day after tomorrow, so will take some proper photos that will show you what this really looks like.

• Interestingly the 'Fat Line' phenomenon is 100% cured by enabling LOW LATENCY. However, like I have said, it’s not actually as bad as it appears to be in the photos.


E-SHIFT 8K:


• eShift 8K reduces MTF and sharpness whilst potentially increasing noise and producing artefacts, and does nothing to enhance the image in a positive way. As such, I strongly recommend turning it off


CONTRAST:

• My UNIT #1 measures contrast performance that is essentially identical as compared with a SEPTEMBER 2018 build PRE-PRODUCTION unit

• My UNIT #1 is measuring circa 18% BELOW JVC's specification regarding ON/OFF contrast performance; and circa 40% BELOW what is statistically the corresponding mean for the pre-existing eShift range for ANSI. @Dj Dee 's unit is measuring circa 26% ABOVE spec for ON/OFF and 14% BELOW for ANSI.

• We need more data points in order to obtain an understanding regarding what is typical. I myself will be measuring a further 4 units.


BUILD DATES:


• My UNIT #1 = OCTOBER 2018 build --> SERIAL #: 153400xx

@Dj Dee 's unit is also OCTOBER 2018 build


MISCELLANEOUS:


• My UNIT #1 has some slight video noise, however the magnitude is less than the pre-existing eShift projector range and is invisible from the seating position. As such, I consider it to be a non-issue

• My UNIT #1 has slight bright corners, however, I am really only able to notice this with full field black, so again this is a non-issue


SUMMARY:

I feel the need to reiterate that when deep diving and employing microscopic scrutiny to evaluate a projector to find out what issues and imperfections exist, it is important to view said imperfections with the correct and proper perspective and not infer from them that they are a greater problem than they actually are.

Wherein, from what I have seen and experienced so far, the JVC RS3000/NX9 really is a superb looking projector.

Sure, it is not perfect, however, all projectors have imperfections and/or performance issues. Wherein, so far, despite the blooming and clouding that is reducing contrast somewhat, any and all other imperfections are completely invisible from the seating position and the projected image quality is nothing short of stunning nonetheless.

Personally, I do not think that this unit is defective, because I now know of numerous pre-production units that measure and behave similarly. What will be interesting will be to see how the further 4 additional units, being newer builds, compare

Arrow, firstly thank you for doing all this work. I've done similar with audio in the past and know it is tough work. It's not fun and it is tedious detailed work.

I also understand that we are looking at the details in order to set a base set of data. Though the projector might be really good, the base set of details are needed to compare to other products either from JVC or Sony or someone else.

My main concern with the nx9 is the lens, 8k eshift and contrast and lumens.

My concern about the lens is this: is it as good as the RS4500? Is it truly the same lens? Are there elements installed in the nx9 lens that is not in the RS4500?

My concern about the 8k eshift is it a determent to the system? Does it affect the lens in any way? Even turned off, does it affect the image?

Contrast - well it either meets the specs JVC has given or it doesn't. Does it beat the other new JVC 4k units? Does it have any other flaws or issues with different settings? If so are they correctable with firmware? Does it beat the Sony projectors as what we have been discussing for the last 3 months while waiting for JVC to produce and deliver these projectors.

Lumens - does it produce the JVC specifications? We really haven't gotten around to this item I don't think.

I'm a newbie with JVC and this level of projector. So I'm relying on Arrow and other forum folks to give the straight truth. Either these projectors meet the anticipated performance or they don't.

Regarding having the projectors calibrated and "fixed" if anything is wrong. Well that is a real issue for me. After buying and paying for a new projector - I don't want to find out that it is a lemon. I will already own it. I'd much rather know that the projector is a perfect as it is supposed to be before paying for it. It's like buying a new car. As soon as you own it, it becomes worth 30% below the cost. My view with these projectors are the same. If these projectors get a bad rap, that will stick with them. In the anticipation thread, there were many folks who said they'd cancel their orders if these projectors didn't measure up to the pre delivery hype. If that is true then dealers are fine with taking them back if we don't like them. Though I don't know if any of the dealers are actually willing to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, Arrow and the others who are spending a ton of time and effort in testing and reporting on these projectors - Thank You. I learn more with each new page of postings.
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post #1664 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post
This is my 2nd JVC as I currently own a RS4810 that I love and I've owned many other projectors over the years from Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, Yamaha, Mitsubishi and JVC. It's just the first time I've ventured into the 4K HDR world so it seems confusing as to what you have to do each time you are watching a regular BR movie or a 4K HDR BR movie. I may be wrong but it seems like you have to always be changing something in the menu. I'm so used to just turning the items on and putting in a disc to enjoy.
It's no different with 4K. You can set up the projector for 1080p sources like you have now, and an additional user setting for 4K / HDR. The projector recognizes whether it's a HDR source or not, and switches automatically. It's easy.
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post #1665 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:22 PM
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That is interesting about low latency mode, proves that the artifact is image processing related. Besides motion related features I wonder what features we lose by turning on low latency mode?
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post #1666 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DennisLJacob View Post
Arrow, firstly thank you for doing all this work. I've done similar with audio in the past and know it is tough work. It's not fun and it is tedious detailed work.

I also understand that we are looking at the details in order to set a base set of data. Though the projector might be really good, the base set of details are needed to compare to other products either from JVC or Sony or someone else.

My main concern with the nx9 is the lens, 8k eshift and contrast and lumens.

My concern about the lens is this: is it as good as the RS4500? Is it truly the same lens? Are there elements installed in the nx9 lens that is not in the RS4500?

My concern about the 8k eshift is it a determent to the system? Does it affect the lens in any way? Even turned off, does it affect the image?

Contrast - well it either meets the specs JVC has given or it doesn't. Does it beat the other new JVC 4k units? Does it have any other flaws or issues with different settings? If so are they correctable with firmware? Does it beat the Sony projectors as what we have been discussing for the last 3 months while waiting for JVC to produce and deliver these projectors.

Lumens - does it produce the JVC specifications? We really haven't gotten around to this item I don't think.

I'm a newbie with JVC and this level of projector. So I'm relying on Arrow and other forum folks to give the straight truth. Either these projectors meet the anticipated performance or they don't.

Regarding having the projectors calibrated and "fixed" if anything is wrong. Well that is a real issue for me. After buying and paying for a new projector - I don't want to find out that it is a lemon. I will already own it. I'd much rather know that the projector is a perfect as it is supposed to be before paying for it. It's like buying a new car. As soon as you own it, it becomes worth 30% below the cost. My view with these projectors are the same. If these projectors get a bad rap, that will stick with them. In the anticipation thread, there were many folks who said they'd cancel their orders if these projectors didn't measure up to the pre delivery hype. If that is true then dealers are fine with taking them back if we don't like them. Though I don't know if any of the dealers are actually willing to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, Arrow and the others who are spending a ton of time and effort in testing and reporting on these projectors - Thank You. I learn more with each new page of postings.
Maybe we can get Woofer to chime in again. He's had an NX9 for weeks. And he has answered a lot of these questions more than once before.
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post #1667 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Bruce since you are one of the very few that have an NX7, is it possible to check one of the patterns supplied by DJ to see if e-shift on the NX9 is adding any booming or not please? This would at least put alot of minds at rest.... https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57430222
I did try some of these patterns last night and can only describe what I saw visually. Trying to photograph them was really difficult and just didn't reflect what my eyes were seeing.

It makes me appreciate the effort that Arrow AV and DJ are putting into this.

ANSI Contrast patterns:

There is some horizontal streaking on the NX7. It's far less visible than the vertical streaking on my X750 and the X35 I had before that. I haven't been able to detect this on end credits for movies but it is visible on the test patterns if viewed close to the screen. None of this is visible on normal content from the main viewing location though.

At absolute peak brightness (high lamp, iris at 0, lens setup for 16:9) I get around 200 nits. At this brightness there is some haloing clearly visible around bright objects that resembles an FALD LED. It doesn't extend across the screen like a reflection would though. Speaking in photographic terms it looks more like dispersion or light scattering in the lens elements than a reflection. Using more ULD glass or improved coatings might be able to reduce this but the the zoom lens on the NX7 is already incredibly complex and expensive and the NX9 even more so.

I should also mention that even my LG 65E7 OLED shows some haloing on these pattens! The light reflects back from the inside of the ALR filter on the front of the screen and blooms into the neighbouring pixels though this set has infinite contrast!

I can't see that strange ghost image that appeared in one sample of the center ANSI test pattern at all. This is the one thing that I think could be from the eshift element in its parked position.

QBF pattern:

I just checked and I've been running in low latency mode the whole time. This is the default for most of the picture modes as delivered by JVC. The QBF pattern still doesn't look perfect but I think it might be limitations in my source device. The letters and bars in red and blue don't look as clean as they should on my aging iMac computer, the LG OLED, or the NX7. Only my iPad with a retina screen is resolving this pattern correctly.

Hope that helps but really we need the professional calibrators to get their hands on the NX7 because they've got the equipment and expertise that I don't have. I will say it's important to keep everything in perspective. We're all enthusiasts here and perhaps even perfectionists. For its intended purpose of enjoying yourself in your home theatre, the NX7 is sublime.

Bruce K.
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post #1668 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:32 PM
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Actually between guys like us that are not into doing Custom Calibrating is why (Some) of us go to the Professionals like Chad B out of Ohio.
He does travel all over the place though so I have no idea if he comes to where you are located.
Just contact the fellow that does his appointments on his website to find that out.
I can tell you for a fact and yes I did say for a fact not my (Opinion) Chad B does an excellent job and in my case it was truly a Night & Day difference.
Well worth the little-cost involved !!!

Click on link below to get to his Internet Site,
http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/home-1.html


Lastly, I highly recommend getting your system Professionally Custom Calibrated if you want it to perform to it's best.
If you like and if you are interested click on my signature as I talked about Chad B coming to my house last month with pictures.

Terry
To bad that he doesn't come to the Pacific NW.

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post #1669 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:41 PM
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People in the U.S. should start receiving their projectors this week. Mine is supposed to land this coming week in Denver.
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post #1670 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:50 PM
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To bad that he doesn't come to the Pacific NW.
You have Kris Deering !
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post #1671 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post
will I need to throw on some depends going from RS 25
I see all of the various JVC models that are older and it would be nice to see a list of all of these older models and the year they came out. I think I bought my RS4810 in 2013 but I have no timeline for most of these models.

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post #1672 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 02:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DennisLJacob View Post
... Regarding having the projectors calibrated and "fixed" if anything is wrong. Well that is a real issue for me. After buying and paying for a new projector - I don't want to find out that it is a lemon. I will already own it. I'd much rather know that the projector is a perfect as it is supposed to be before paying for it. It's like buying a new car. As soon as you own it, it becomes worth 30% below the cost. My view with these projectors are the same. If these projectors get a bad rap, that will stick with them. In the anticipation thread, there were many folks who said they'd cancel their orders if these projectors didn't measure up to the pre delivery hype. If that is true then dealers are fine with taking them back if we don't like them. Though I don't know if any of the dealers are actually willing to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, Arrow and the others who are spending a ton of time and effort in testing and reporting on these projectors - Thank You. I learn more with each new page of postings.
If you are not in a hurry, you could await additional feedback, reports and comparisons from arrow and others. We will get a better picture of the range of observations being made and the range of variations.

Typically, being able to return a projector comes with limitations, such a limited number of hours on the lamp. Definitely ask about a return policy and the conditions.

What range of variation would trigger a replacement or repair is tricky. You have already heard the reply you might get, all projectors have flaws, the flaws dont matter, the average user would not notice the flaw, the projector still throws a great image.

There are definitely acceptable variations versus something else. Arrow has said he will test other units to confirm his observations as being irregular or consistent from unit to unit.

We will also get a look at other model and brand comparisons to further help qualify the performance of the new units.

If your able to await more feedback and info, it may help you in your purchase decision.
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post #1673 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I disagree with Nigel.

The idea of using more than 1 square is to measure variations at different areas of the panels, while the overall picture goes through the same part of the lens (the screen is irrelevant as you measure off the lens). If you use lens shift without moving the meter, you are measuring the same area of the panel, going through a different part of the lens, so there is no point in doing that.
That can't possibly be correct. By using lens shift you are still measuring a different part of the panel. Think about it.

A 4k panel with 16 squares filling the panel. If you take a measurement in all 16 squares you are still measuring a 1/16th area of the panel and all 16 are in unique locations. All lens shift does is move the image using the lens. So the measurement will be going through the same area of the lens but a different portion of the panel.

If you move the meter, you are measuring 16 unique panel areas and 16 unique lens areas because the light to each square goes through a different part of the lens.
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post #1674 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 02:26 PM
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I did try some of these patterns last night and can only describe what I saw visually. Trying to photograph them was really difficult and just didn't reflect what my eyes were seeing.

It makes me appreciate the effort that Arrow AV and DJ are putting into this.

ANSI Contrast patterns:

There is some horizontal streaking on the NX7. It's far less visible than the vertical streaking on my X750 and the X35 I had before that. I haven't been able to detect this on end credits for movies but it is visible on the test patterns if viewed close to the screen. None of this is visible on normal content from the main viewing location though.


I just checked and I've been running in low latency mode the whole time. This is the default for most of the picture modes as delivered by JVC. The QBF pattern still doesn't look perfect but I think it might be limitations in my source device. The letters and bars in red and blue don't look as clean as they should on my aging iMac computer, the LG OLED, or the NX7. Only my iPad with a retina screen is resolving this pattern correctly.

Hope that helps but really we need the professional calibrators to get their hands on the NX7 because they've got the equipment and expertise that I don't have. I will say it's important to keep everything in perspective. We're all enthusiasts here and perhaps even perfectionists. For its intended purpose of enjoying yourself in your home theatre, the NX7 is sublime.
Thanks for your observations Bruce, in light of this it seems as if e-shift isnt the cause of halos on the NX9.

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post #1675 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 02:42 PM
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I originally decided to upgrade from the X750 to the NX7 for the 4K HDR benefits alone. This was due to the major headline changes of native 4K resolution and the auto tone mapping for HDR. I used custom curves on the X750 (3 curves for Dolby Cinema emulation) but felt that this could be better. Because the Apple TV 4K is my primary source the Panasonic 820 doesn't help me.

I assumed that the best I could do for 1080P SDR on the NX7 was to equal the X750 and I actually expected the NX7 to lag behind a bit because of the lower rated on/off contrast.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The NX7 improves on the X750 in every way and the difference is clearly visible in everyday viewing. I'm not talking about pixel peeping at close distances but actually using it like a normal customer would. The new chassis must contain a lot of internal improvements over the previous lineup. Some of these may be small, subtle improvements but they all add up and the end result makes for amazing viewing.

Basically the image looks like a giant 110 inch 21:9 OLED all the time. I haven't seen a single flaw to mar the picture when viewing from 2X screen height which is really close. Nothing distracts you from the viewing experience.

1. The image is calm, crisp, and incredibly detailed.
2. No lamp flicker or video noise.
3. There is no streaking or ghosting visible on real world content from a normal viewing distance. Much better than my X750.
4. Overall contrast performance matches the X750.
5. Superb convergence even at 4K resolution.
6. No stuck pixels detected (out of 24 million!).
7. Motion is much better. I don't use CMD but even straight 24p telecine motion is noticeably cleaner.
8. The auto tone mapping for HDR is excellent. It's just plug and play assuming the metadata is decent and easy to adjust manually if its not.
9. The HDMI handshake is nearly twice as fast as the X750 and rock solid. I haven't had a single glitch or dropout on any source.
10. Build quality is high. Fit and finish is excellent though I do miss the high gloss black.
This makes me very excited to get my RS2000!
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post #1676 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 02:48 PM
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This is my 2nd JVC as I currently own a RS4810 that I love and I've owned many other projectors over the years from Sharp, Sony, Toshiba, Yamaha, Mitsubishi and JVC. It's just the first time I've ventured into the 4K HDR world so it seems confusing as to what you have to do each time you are watching a regular BR movie or a 4K HDR BR movie. I may be wrong but it seems like you have to always be changing something in the menu. I'm so used to just turning the items on and putting in a disc to enjoy.
I've had projectors for 15 years as well but bought my first jvc rs400 3 years back and yes just like you said I had to constally be changing something but it was all worth it.. Then I got an rs520 and rs640 installed javs custom curves and i pretty much dont have to change anything anymore or rarely.. With the new models it should be plug and play now..
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post #1677 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 02:49 PM
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I think I know the VW5000 better than most other as I got this projector 2 month before it was hit the market and I got serial number 1.
Some people from Industrie know what this means.
If you like to read here was a big thread about the 5000 see here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ul...projector.html
WOW almost 3 years ago… time is running….

It is possible as the 5000 had about 13.000:1 cr. and i guess the NX7 will have been about double than this.
Remember the 5000 had about 4500 lumen and it was the first 4k laser phosphor pr.
If Lygren get a good optic in his NX7 and his screen size is not very large yes this can be the case.
The 5000 development is over 3 years old.

BTW some ask in this tread about a good UHD Disc.
Try Mama Mia 2 very good picture quality super color and nice HDR Effects.
I guess I should underline that although I believe the N(x)7 looks better than even the VW5000 on certain types of content, this relates a whole lot to the problematic handling of HDR on the current generation of Sonys. Using a proper processor or madVR, for example, I am sure VW5000 would give the N7 a much harder time and for a lot of content - of course - crush the N7 / NX9 given its far higher lumens capacity as well as acceptable blacks... For ISE, though, the Alcons Pro Ribbon Experience demo will be fitted with the N(x)7, a 3,5m wide V6 (cinescope), and we will also bring and see if we can put to use the Panamorph DCR lens to get some added light output.

For next year, however, Alcons might be back with Sony again, they just need to sort out HDR mapping, which in these shows at least - is very important as we need as few components as possible. As such, adding a video processor adds to setup time and complexity so we place a great amount of emphasis on working "as is". As such, these new JVC´s seems to do a great job, but I am also sure Sony will improve as even a 300USD UHD player from Panasonic can do a very good job on this matter. Truth be told; I am quite surprised Sony has not supplied a better internal system for HDR tone mapping yet, as I have stated before, this should have been implemented via a firmware update on their current lineup ASAP, not as a new feature for the next gen projectors... BUT - then again - I also have to agree that HDR in general has proven to be one of the worst new "formats" ever launch in terms of overall compatibility and industry planning in general - and Sony being a very serious player as such probably was not too keen or even able to do the required "hacking" / "patching" on the actual source material. Being true-to-source was probably not the most viable approach in terms of HDR and projection although I have to say - HDR now renders great on all content I have seen thus far on the N(x)7, so by distilling the goodies and balancing out the peaks JVC has - in my opinion - made out a great and highly universal platform on their new N-line of projectors!
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post #1678 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 02:55 PM
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It's no different with 4K. You can set up the projector for 1080p sources like you have now, and an additional user setting for 4K / HDR. The projector recognizes whether it's a HDR source or not, and switches automatically. It's easy.
Now this is reassuring. I was worried that my wife would hate it if she had to figure out what to do as she is tech challenged.

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post #1679 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 03:00 PM
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.......................

Basically the image looks like a giant 110 inch 21:9 OLED all the time. I haven't seen a single flaw to mar the picture when viewing from 2X screen height which is really close. Nothing distracts you from the viewing experience.

..............
Thanks, Bruce. You could have written a treatise...great stuff and the NX7 sounds promising.

If more reports come out like this, I may opt for the NX7...even instead of the NX9 maybe ; but I want to also see if the eshift on the Nx9 is causing any issues even when off or whether the haloing that Arrow, Ekki, and others mention is due to eshift being there or due to processing or is something else.
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post #1680 of 12832 Old 01-13-2019, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
One possibility is changing the parameters (timing, voltage) of how the panels are driven. Motion Enhance overdrives the panels and introduces halo/ringing artifacts, so tweaking the base setting for this could change some aspects of the image.
Isn't it simply light rotated for full reflectivity (on) vs light not rotated thus blocked by the polarisers for minimal reflectivity.

Doesn't motion enhance pseudo speed up the panels, so instead of the duration being Black to Black(longer cycle), is becomes Grey to Grey?(shorter cycle) Hence the issues?

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