Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 602 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18031 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I don't know what type of lens CM was filmed with; some of the close ups do look a bit soft, but that beginning planet fight scene has some of the best black levels as seen through the NX7 with the DI engaged, Auto 1, and aperture full open.





I know members are assured that the DI causes blow outs and yellowing, but even at aperture wide open, I've yet to see yellowing. Also, on the blow out of highlights, I recall SirMaster was passing around some torture test material, but for whatever reason this NX7 would not blow out in the manner his was indicating, and I posted the findings.



I also had some others look with me for any yellowing of white text, but as hard we tried, we didn't or couldn't see it. I think I'm going stop looking for these problems now.
How dare you stop looking for problems with your projector. It is your duty and honor to only focus and concentrate on the negative, not appreciate all the positives.

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post #18032 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I think fox shoots in 2k or so but broadcasts 720p. I am sure I read their 4K was upscaled source. Im suggesting that the upscaled 4K may not look quite as impressive on the native 4K projectors as it does on the pixel shifters when compared to real 4K content. I’m sure it’s a big step up from their usually 720p though. But who knows. I have seen some extremely impressive madvr upscaling.
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
You are correct that Fox broadcasts in 720P. They haven't revealed how they are doing the broadcast other than the broadcast is 4K but no word on the what the source content resolution is. Are you saying that a true 4k projector would reveal more limitations in the image quality than a pixel shifter due to the original source being most likely 720P? Not questioning your assertion just making sure I understand your statement and the rationale behind it.

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I appreciate the heads-up on this yesterday. Out of curiosity, I signed in to Fox Sports on my Roku Premiere+, to watch on my RS400. I was actually kind of under-whelmed. It seemed like some cameras were fairly sharp, with good color and contrast, while others were pretty flat and not particularly sharp. Certainly nothing like the 4k content on Netflix, Amazon, etc. I have the Roku connected by ethernet to a 200 down/20 up Spectrum connection, so bandwidth has never been an issue.

FWIW.
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post #18033 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I think I'm going stop looking for these problems now.
You should *never* be looking for these problems

It doesn't matter if you don't see them because they aren't there or because you don't notice them. The last thing you want is to look for them.

Enjoy your projector.
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post #18034 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
I appreciate the heads-up on this yesterday. Out of curiosity, I signed in to Fox Sports on my Roku Premiere+, to watch on my RS400. I was actually kind of under-whelmed. It seemed like some cameras were fairly sharp, with good color and contrast, while others were pretty flat and not particularly sharp. Certainly nothing like the 4k content on Netflix, Amazon, etc. I have the Roku connected by ethernet to a 200 down/20 up Spectrum connection, so bandwidth has never been an issue.



FWIW.
Agreed. maybe try checking out the NFL Thursday Night Game. I have found that picture quality to be more consistent and better for the Thursday night game.

Netflix and Amazon 4K for original content is shot on 4K or higher resolution cameras . They generally don't divulge what the digital intermediate is finished at in the studio but speculation is 4k. So higher quality all around.

Fox hasn't confirmed what resolution the cameras are that they use. Since they generally broadcast in 720P it stands to reason that the good majority of their cameras are not 4k or higher. The NFL broadcasts use 12 to 20 different cameras so it would be quite expensive to have that many 4k cameras especially when they only broadcast one game a week in 4K. The broadcast is definitely upscaled from either 720P or 1080 to 4K.


Whereas television program productions for Netflix and Amazon use far fewer cameras and broadcast in 4K quite frequently, so it makes sense to use the highest quality camera you can. They are only using 3 to 6 cameras when shooting a particular scene, if that many. Then you move those cameras to the next scene. Set up and shoot that next scene. Again and again. Obviously for bigger budget original shows/movies they use more cameras of high quality. Those cameras are being used every day so you can justify the expense of higher quality. Football broadcast cameras not used nearly as much.

But I digress. Try the NFL game Thursday night on the app.

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post #18035 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 09:43 AM
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Ya... The projector is toast. The remote all of the sudden quit working, it froze and made a awful squeezing noise and shut down and won't turn back on. No indicator light, no nothing. Just dead....

Good thing I have friends in the right places and have my replacement one up and running a few hours ago...
Well jeez I am in the business and I do not think I could make that happen on the weekend .... lol
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post #18036 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottieBoysName View Post
Thanks!
No problem. Your issue is different than mine was, but in both cases some sort of ground loop started when we plugged in our projectors, so maybe it will still help you. Only $70 or so on Amazon, too.
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post #18037 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 11:05 AM
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Well jeez I am in the business and I do not think I could make that happen on the weekend .... lol
They had 2 in stock and were open till 9 lol
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post #18038 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sbjork View Post
No problem. Your issue is different than mine was, but in both cases some sort of ground loop started when we plugged in our projectors, so maybe it will still help you. Only $70 or so on Amazon, too.


A fellow AVSer is helping me out in that regard. Thanks, for the help too - we’re all in this crazy stuff together.
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post #18039 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
You should *never* be looking for these problems

It doesn't matter if you don't see them because they aren't there or because you don't notice them. The last thing you want is to look for them.

Enjoy your projector.
Hello all,

Just updated my NX9 with the latest firmware. JVC should be applauded for their efforts on making HDR reasonably better for front projectors.
They have come a long way from D-Gamma. I have watched a few UHD Blu Ray Discs and have been pleased with what I have seen. Question -when using the Frame Adapt Mode are you preferring Scene by Scene or Frame by Frame?

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post #18040 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 04:33 PM
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Loving my new JVC RS1000..... a solid upgrade from a 1080 projector to a 4K projector. Using with the Pani UB9000.
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post #18041 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD MAN View Post
Hello all,

Just updated my NX9 with the latest firmware. JVC should be applauded for their efforts on making HDR reasonably better for front projectors.
They have come a long way from D-Gamma.
Forget about gamma D. Even with the generation of JVCs that followed the Xx50/RSx00 series, there were those who complained that tone mapping still left some to be desired. And I was one of the people who was hoping for better built-in tone mapping solutions.

It appears that JVC was very well tuned in to the A/V culture present in these forums. With auto tone mapping, and now DTM, you're on point; JVC is taking the lead there. And I have to give the company credit where credit is due.
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post #18042 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Captain marvel is one of the worst looking marvel movie released in years. It still look "pretty good" but it lacks the usual sharpness that we saw in black panther, avengers infinity wars, etc. Surprisingly, the sound is much more dynamic than some recent disney releases and far less neutered. But the video isn't great. The beginning planet fight scene in the dark is definitely watchable but not impressive. I wouldn't consider it demo material by any means.
I don't know what type of lens CM was filmed with; some of the close ups do look a bit soft, but that beginning planet fight scene has some of the best black levels as seen through the NX7 with the DI engaged, Auto 1, and aperture full open.


I know members are assured that the DI causes blow outs and yellowing, but even at aperture wide open, I've yet to see yellowing. Also, on the blow out of highlights, I recall SirMaster was passing around some torture test material, but for whatever reason this NX7 would not blow out in the manner his was indicating, and I posted the findings.

I also had some others look with me for any yellowing of white text, but as hard we tried, we didn't or couldn't see it. I think I'm going stop looking for these problems now.
Am in same boat, I’ve watched a bit of stuff on my n7. haven’t seen any yellowing or any other issues and happy with iris how works. Think works better than previous gen. Though wouldn’t say no to an auto3 that clamps down more or something ... who’d say no 😄

Ps I won’t stop looking, Will still keep eyes peeled 😄 am not one to sweep under carpet. If something is wrong rather highlight 🙂
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post #18043 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 09:07 PM
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Nope! I went into a more detailed example in the JTR Sub thread with another poster (having the same issues). I won’t clog up this thread with all that. Check it out if you have time.

Strange stuff.
Thanks for posting that - been dealing with some hum/buzzing/noise in my system since adding
some regular amp powered Atmos speakers to fully XLR powered Seatons and new Marantz pre/pro-
Never dawned on me the N7 could be part of problem – just did quick check by unplugging JVC the noise in main speakers/subs goes away - Ya- however when I unplug the JVC the hum in my Atmos
speakers which I previously fixed comes back – boo - Strange stuff indeed - at least I have another angle to get everything worked out - Thxs

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post #18044 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 09:15 PM
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Thanks for posting that - been dealing with some hum/buzzing/noise in my system since adding

some regular amp powered Atmos speakers to fully XLR powered Seatons and new Marantz pre/pro-

Never dawned on me the N7 could be part of problem – just did quick check by unplugging JVC the noise in main speakers/subs goes away - Ya- however when I unplug the JVC the hum in my Atmos

speakers which I previously fixed comes back – boo - Strange stuff indeed - at least I have another angle to get everything worked out - Thxs


Yup! Strange stuff!

Swapped out my dimmer for a paddle. No difference. Lol.
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post #18045 of 19230 Old 10-20-2019, 10:03 PM
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I have my RS3000 ceiling mounted on a vaulted ceiling. I ran the power through a conduit to prevent any power line noise/hum from getting into the signal lines. I also added ferrite blocks to all of the cables going to the projector. The in ceiling/wall HDMI cable is 50' and is parallel to the power cable in the ceiling. I haven't detected any noise/hum in my audio provided by a Denon AVR-X7200WA receiver. See the attached picture.
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post #18046 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I know members are assured that the DI causes blow outs and yellowing, but even at aperture wide open, I've yet to see yellowing. Also, on the blow out of highlights, I recall SirMaster was passing around some torture test material, but for whatever reason this NX7 would not blow out in the manner his was indicating, and I posted the findings.

I also had some others look with me for any yellowing of white text, but as hard we tried, we didn't or couldn't see it. I think I'm going stop looking for these problems now.
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Anyway, the workaround is simple for both yellowing and highlights blooming/crushing: close the manual iris down or switch the DI off.
Didn't Arrow already test and confirm that using the BT.2020 profile cures the yellowing problem? Also... I did my own testing and can confirm what Arrow found (although I'm not measuring, just looking at the screen). Testing the Lucy intro, I can see the slight yellow shift if I'm in Rec.709 colorspace with the dynamic iris on. Switch to BT.2020 and the problem goes away. I almost always run BT.2020 with the color filter anyway, so that's why I had problems reproducing it before.
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post #18047 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wombats View Post
Didn't Arrow already test and confirm that using the BT.2020 profile cures the yellowing problem? Also... I did my own testing and can confirm what Arrow found (although I'm not measuring, just looking at the screen). Testing the Lucy intro, I can see the slight yellow shift if I'm in Rec.709 colorspace with the dynamic iris on. Switch to BT.2020 and the problem goes away. I almost always run BT.2020 with the color filter anyway, so that's why I had problems reproducing it before.
I do recall reading that, doesn't really explain the difference in opinion over N5/7 vs NX9 units.

I guess that's not really a choice you can make for SDR content though, unless you have a player that maps the REC709 content into BT2020 - otherwise you'll have wildly oversaturated (and a bit off hue) colours. At least for SDR you can likely close the iris down a little to get back some contrast, as you probably don't need the same peak output.

In any case, the other issues remaining around the DI would leave this still being a feature that is disabled on my unit. Here's hoping for a bit more configurability in a future release to see if less obtrusive yet still beneficial settings can be found.
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post #18048 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
I do recall reading that, doesn't really explain the difference in opinion over N5/7 vs NX9 units.

I guess that's not really a choice you can make for SDR content though, unless you have a player that maps the REC709 content into BT2020 - otherwise you'll have wildly oversaturated (and a bit off hue) colours. At least for SDR you can likely close the iris down a little to get back some contrast, as you probably don't need the same peak output.

In any case, the other issues remaining around the DI would leave this still being a feature that is disabled on my unit. Here's hoping for a bit more configurability in a future release to see if less obtrusive yet still beneficial settings can be found.
You can still use the color filter for SDR non BT2020 by using the cinema or thx setting. Both utilize the color filter on the RS3000 and still work for SDR BT709 content. I think the main reason that you don't see yellowing on the RS3000 is that it has a larger aperture lens that lets out more light even with the DI restricting the light output.
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post #18049 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
You can still use the color filter for SDR non BT2020 by using the cinema or thx setting. Both utilize the color filter on the RS3000 and still work for SDR BT709 content. I think the main reason that you don't see yellowing on the RS3000 is that it has a larger aperture lens that lets out more light even with the DI restricting the light output.
Sorry, I was taking it for read that the previous post was accurate - that it only went away in BT2020 mode. I wasn't aware it was also deemed fixed by other modes with the cinema filter in.
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post #18050 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 02:11 AM
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Agreed. maybe try checking out the NFL Thursday Night Game. I have found that picture quality to be more consistent and better for the Thursday night game.

Netflix and Amazon 4K for original content is shot on 4K or higher resolution cameras . They generally don't divulge what the digital intermediate is finished at in the studio but speculation is 4k. So higher quality all around.

Fox hasn't confirmed what resolution the cameras are that they use. Since they generally broadcast in 720P it stands to reason that the good majority of their cameras are not 4k or higher. The NFL broadcasts use 12 to 20 different cameras so it would be quite expensive to have that many 4k cameras especially when they only broadcast one game a week in 4K. The broadcast is definitely upscaled from either 720P or 1080 to 4K.

It's upscaled from 1080p it seems:
There are multiple sources but the quote is:
"It’s an exciting step forward for live sports in the US, but the press release came with a caveat: the game will still be produced in 1080p HDR and get upscaled to 4K for delivery. That’s because the broadcast equipment needed to produce an entire NFL game, especially the slow-motion systems, are still in 1080p, according to Mike Davies, SVP of field operations for Fox Sports."
https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/26/2...ball-streaming

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post #18051 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
It's upscaled from 1080p it seems:

There are multiple sources but the quote is:

"It’s an exciting step forward for live sports in the US, but the press release came with a caveat: the game will still be produced in 1080p HDR and get upscaled to 4K for delivery. That’s because the broadcast equipment needed to produce an entire NFL game, especially the slow-motion systems, are still in 1080p, according to Mike Davies, SVP of field operations for Fox Sports."

https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/26/2...ball-streaming
Thank you for following up. Much appreciated..

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post #18052 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wombats View Post
Didn't Arrow already test and confirm that using the BT.2020 profile cures the yellowing problem? Also... I did my own testing and can confirm what Arrow found (although I'm not measuring, just looking at the screen). Testing the Lucy intro, I can see the slight yellow shift if I'm in Rec.709 colorspace with the dynamic iris on. Switch to BT.2020 and the problem goes away. I almost always run BT.2020 with the color filter anyway, so that's why I had problems reproducing it before.

Except I used mine in the HDR color profile (non-filtered).

This is really a mystery. It may have to do with the way my source and connections are configured. Still, I'm not complaining.
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post #18053 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Sorry, I was taking it for read that the previous post was accurate - that it only went away in BT2020 mode. I wasn't aware it was also deemed fixed by other modes with the cinema filter in.

I wasnt aware either.

Perhaps NX7 users could try filter on 709 content by using autocal to import a color profile with filter engaged.

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post #18054 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 07:49 AM
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I'm likely going to make the switch to FW 3.10. I have a question for those using the DI with DTM who previously used the Panny players. Which of the following options offered up the best black level rendering for most discs:

A) UB820/9000 w/optimizer HDR BT2020 DTM off
B) UB820/9000 w/optimizer SDR BT2020 DTM will be off
C) UB820/9000 optimizer off HDR BT2020 DTM on
D) Device other than Panny or DTM
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post #18055 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I'm likely going to make the switch to FW 3.10. I have a question for those using the DI with DTM who previously used the Panny players. Which of the following options offered up the best black level rendering for most discs:

A) UB820/9000 w/optimizer HDR BT2020 DTM off
B) UB820/9000 w/optimizer SDR BT2020 DTM will be off
C) UB820/9000 optimizer off HDR BT2020 DTM on
D) Device other than Panny or DTM
I haven't tried experimenting with the Optimizer and DTM, but DTM with no optimizer and brightness zero'd gives the best overall black floor. Using Auto-1 on the DI.
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post #18056 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 09:44 AM
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Another observation over the weekend. I noticed just a bit of yellowing in the skin tone. Wasn't sure if this was DTM, bulb aging, etc. Adding a couple of ticks of color (+2) seemed to bring everything back in line. I'm due to have the unit calibrated in the next month, so I would imagine it will be solved more elegantly with this. Just thought I would offer that up in case anyone else is seeing slightly off skin tones.

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post #18057 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 09:46 AM
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With more content watched, I'm finding that DTM at either Medium or High levels (and often Auto, which tends to default to Medium) sometimes pushes mid-tones in ways that can give facial features an unnatural glow. This is very distracting on Mission: Impossible - Fallout, for example. On that disc, I get the best results with high lamp and tone mapping at Low.
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post #18058 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I'm likely going to make the switch to FW 3.10. I have a question for those using the DI with DTM who previously used the Panny players. Which of the following options offered up the best black level rendering for most discs:

A) UB820/9000 w/optimizer HDR BT2020 DTM off
B) UB820/9000 w/optimizer SDR BT2020 DTM will be off
C) UB820/9000 optimizer off HDR BT2020 DTM on
D) Device other than Panny or DTM
hi aztar, 9000 and n7 owner here...make the switch in confidence... forget about tone mapping in the pana. hold down optimiser button and switch ti off so its option c. JVC with HDR 10 and dynamic tone mapping in frame by frame. suggest start with auto and go from there
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post #18059 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
hi aztar, 9000 and n7 owner here...make the switch in confidence... forget about tone mapping in the pana. hold down optimiser button and switch ti off so its option c. JVC with HDR 10 and dynamic tone mapping in frame by frame. suggest start with auto and go from there

Hi. Thanks.

Will the projector in low lamp with DTM be as bright as tone mapping in the Panny was when the PJ was in low lamp?
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post #18060 of 19230 Old 10-21-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Hi. Thanks.

Will the projector in low lamp with DTM be as bright as tone mapping in the Panny was when the PJ was in low lamp?
I was running in low lamp before wiht the pana and running in low lamp now with DTM

i do achieve around 30FL(~100 nits) in low lamp for HDR though

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