Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 729 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21841 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post
The Gemini Man UHD 4K60 will be sure to cause some animated discussions on here –

On one hand it’s probably the most clear / detailed / crisp (stick in any word)

UHD released to date- on other hand completely unwatchable – its horrid experience –

Lasted about 5 minutes before we had to watch included Blu-ray-

I am with you... while I don’t have the disc yet (not sure how you got it early as it is released on Jan 14... Europe maybe?).... you sure you got a legitimate copy ?

I can’t stand the look of 4K60.... looks like a live news feed or home video.


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post #21842 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I am with you... while I don’t have the disc yet (not sure how you got it early as it is released on Jan 14... Europe maybe?).... you sure you got a legitimate copy ?

I can’t stand the look of 4K60.... looks like a live news feed or home video.


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I'm going to hazard a guess......................Kaleidescape (been available for a couple of weeks)
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post #21843 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by GPBURNS View Post
The Gemini Man UHD 4K60 will be sure to cause some animated discussions on here –
On one hand it’s probably the most clear / detailed / crisp (stick in any word)
UHD released to date- on other hand completely unwatchable – its horrid experience –
Lasted about 5 minutes before we had to watch included Blu-ray-
It certainly does demonstrate the capeabilities of our projectors tho...quite amazing if u can put up with 2 hours of soap opera effect...

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post #21844 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
I agree its what I expect with the filter off. Projector is set to DCI mode though and I can definitely hear the filter engage when i select it.




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Do you mean HDR mode? If so, that is without filter in place.

Added
I forgot the projector does have a DCI color mode, but that would be for commercial screening rooms, showing stuff like Hollywood DCI content.

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post #21845 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Your projector does not have a DCI mode. Do you mean HDR mode? If so, that is without filter in place.


Sorry, I have it in HDR10 mode with DCI colour profile selected.


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post #21846 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
Sorry, I have it in HDR10 mode with DCI colour profile selected.


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You are using the wrong color profile. Select BT2020. DCI color profile would be if you were a commercial client that could get their hands on actual DCI content. 4K UHD discs are BT2020. 4K UHD happens to use a color space size of DCI in the BT2020 container.
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post #21847 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
You are using the wrong color profile. Select BT2020. DCI color profile would be if you were a commercial client that could get their hands on actual DCI content. 4K UHD discs are BT2020. 4K UHD happens to use a color space size of DCI in the BT2020 container.
Since me mentioned creating a 3DLUT in DisplayCAL I can only assume he is using madVR.

In this case DCI is generally the best mode to use. madVR will convert the BT.2020 source colorspace to DCI so there is no mismatch of color spaces.

The reason you want to use DCI mode is because when you try generating a 3DLUT for a color space that is wider than your native display's capabilities (such as BT.2020) you will tend to get a lot of posterization.

That being said, the DCI mode on the NX7 does use the wide color filter by default and he should be seeing at least 97%+ gamut coverage.
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post #21848 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
How soon do u feel they will be under $10k?
NEC C981Q 98" is under 9K retail, out right now........ It is edge lit with no HDR as it is a monitor....... LG has a 98" to, 98UH5EB. If you remember, back in the day, monitors where preferred over TV's.......

Just a FYI, AVS member did buy 146" "the Wall" Samsung <<<Click Here>>>
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post #21849 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 08:14 AM
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Since me mentioned creating a 3DLUT in DisplayCAL I can only assume he is using madVR.



In this case DCI is generally the best mode to use. madVR will convert the BT.2020 source colorspace to DCI so there is no mismatch of color spaces.



The reason you want to use DCI mode is because when you try generating a 3DLUT for a color space that is wider than your native display's capabilities (such as BT.2020) you will tend to get a lot of posterization.



That being said, the DCI mode on the NX7 does use the wide color filter by default and he should be seeing at least 97%+ gamut coverage.

This was my understanding as well and yes the 3D LUT is for MadVR.

I have tried using the BT2020 projector setting for a 3DLUT and i then get 99% DCI coverage but the colors are badly shifted during playback so that everything is reddish orange with the resulting 3DLUT. The 3DLUT made with the DCI color mode on the projector looks amazing but for some reason has a lower gamut coverage around 90%. The max luminance drops by 10% as expected in that mode so I am sure the filter is engaged. I guess it looks great so I should just be happy but the perfectionist in me can’t let it go.


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post #21850 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
If you are in a dark theater room watching a 5000 nit display with infinite contrast, perfect blacks, and BT 2020 color gamut with no fan noise, I don't think a glass screen is going to be any kind of distraction. Reflection only becomes an issue in a bright room and projection isn't even worth watching in a bright room. Projection will be a thing of the past once microLED pricing starts coming down. Granted that will take a number of years to refine the technology and bring down the price.

Even those Samsung qled displays are going to be pretty nice and consumer priced. Although still limited in size, 100" Qled displays will soon be under $10K. They aren't quite as nice as microLED but still clearly superior to projection in terms of contrast, brightness, and color gamut.
I much prefer the look of a projected image. Especially with my RS4500 / Lumagen / DCR lens combo. Nothing I see at Cedia changes my mind. I'd rather have a scaled down Christie Eclipse projector then a Micro LED wall, price being equal. Maybe when I'm 80 I'll change my mind for simplicity sake.
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post #21851 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 09:41 AM
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How soon do u feel they will be under $10k?
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
100" under 10k maybe within 3-5 years (that is probably optimistic)

QLeds look amazing and have exceptional brightness. Oh I'm expecting those 100 inch QLeds at $10K much sooner than that. And I might just make the jump from projection. The sacrifice will be only some 10 to 20 inches 16x9 for most people. I agree with Greg that this will be a game-changer.
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post #21852 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
NEC C981Q 98" is under 9K retail, out right now........ It is edge lit with no HDR as it is a monitor....... LG has a 98" to, 98UH5EB. If you remember, back in the day, monitors where preferred over TV's.......
I don't know what's going on, but I see flat panels getting less and less expensive while at the same time putting out great quality images.
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post #21853 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
You are using the wrong color profile. Select BT2020. DCI color profile would be if you were a commercial client that could get their hands on actual DCI content. 4K UHD discs are BT2020. 4K UHD happens to use a color space size of DCI in the BT2020 container.
That’s basically what I said earlier
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post #21854 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
This was my understanding as well and yes the 3D LUT is for MadVR.

I have tried using the BT2020 projector setting for a 3DLUT and i then get 99% DCI coverage but the colors are badly shifted during playback so that everything is reddish orange with the resulting 3DLUT. The 3DLUT made with the DCI color mode on the projector looks amazing but for some reason has a lower gamut coverage around 90%. The max luminance drops by 10% as expected in that mode so I am sure the filter is engaged. I guess it looks great so I should just be happy but the perfectionist in me can’t let it go.


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Are you using same profile (BT2020) during playback?
Also, I have never used displaycal but I expect that in case you want to use DCI, you have to explicitly configure it for using DCI space, since the standard is BT2020. Everything must match to get right results.

Last edited by CyberPaul; 01-07-2020 at 10:13 AM.
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post #21855 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
QLeds look amazing and have exceptional brightness. Oh I'm expecting those 100 inch QLeds at $10K much sooner than that. And I might just make the jump from projection. The sacrifice will be only some 10 to 20 inches 16x9 for most people. I agree with Greg that this will be a game-changer.
Unless you are a scope screen user. Then most likely you are giving up a lot of real estate.
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post #21856 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
QLeds look amazing and have exceptional brightness. Oh I'm expecting those 100 inch QLeds at $10K much sooner than that. And I might just make the jump from projection. The sacrifice will be only some 10 to 20 inches 16x9 for most people. I agree with Greg that this will be a game-changer.
I agree. 100"+ Qleds will be under $10K by 2021. But as Mike points out they will only be available in 16:9 format as they are going to be consumer models.

It will be 5 years or more before you will be able to get a microLED 100"+ displays in a scope format and they won't be under $10K.

But Qled is a different story completely the new 110" 16:9 model Samsung is showing at CES is a 2020 consumer model and I expect the price to start at around $20K and will down to about $15K by Black Friday 2020.
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post #21857 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 11:43 AM
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Are you using same profile (BT2020) during playback?

Also, I have never used displaycal but I expect that in case you want to use DCI, you have to explicitly configure it for using DCI space, since the standard is BT2020. Everything must match to get right results.


Yeah - I am using the color profile that matches my displaycal settings throughout the whole chain. I redid the DCI calibration with more color samples and the gamut coverage went up to 93%. I am just not sure why with the projector set on BT2020 I get 98+% but set on DCI I get 93%. Luminance is identical on both which confirms the filter is in place for both.


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post #21858 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 01:01 PM
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I agree. 100"+ Qleds will be under $10K by 2021. But as Mike points out they will only be available in 16:9 format as they are going to be consumer models.

It will be 5 years or more before you will be able to get a microLED 100"+ displays in a scope format and they won't be under $10K.

But Qled is a different story completely the new 110" 16:9 model Samsung is showing at CES is a 2020 consumer model and I expect the price to start at around $20K and will down to about $15K by Black Friday 2020.
Interesting...I’d be more concerned about Dirty Screen Effect on any Sammy that large...Definitely an Issue on their current line up, unless QLED changes things...
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post #21859 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 01:27 PM
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I agree. 100"+ Qleds will be under $10K by 2021. But as Mike points out they will only be available in 16:9 format as they are going to be consumer models.

It will be 5 years or more before you will be able to get a microLED 100"+ displays in a scope format and they won't be under $10K.

But Qled is a different story completely the new 110" 16:9 model Samsung is showing at CES is a 2020 consumer model and I expect the price to start at around $20K and will down to about $15K by Black Friday 2020.
Thanks, Greg. I am thinking the same and I think that would be a sweet deal that I would be glad to pay for and buy.

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Interesting...I’d be more concerned about Dirty Screen Effect on any Sammy that large...Definitely an Issue on their current line up, unless QLED changes things...
Asharma, I would go out and look at some of these QLEDs; their images are breathtaking to say the least. And on a 110 inch display, you may then be seeing my NX7 in the classifieds.
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post #21860 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 01:33 PM
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Thanks, Greg. I am thinking the same and I think that would be a sweet deal that I would be glad to pay for and buy.



Asharma, I would go out and look at some of these QLEDs; their images are breathtaking to say the least. And on a 110 inch display, you may then be seeing my NX7 in the classifieds.
I looked a long time at the QLEd 82 inchers...major DSE for NHL white ice surface hockey...hockey is the torcher test for DSE...hopefully things have improved...my 85” Sony has 0 DSE...
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post #21861 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 01:37 PM
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I looked a long time at the QLEd 82 inchers...major DSE for NHL white ice surface hockey...hockey is the torcher test for DSE...hopefully things have improved...my 85” Sony has 0 DSE...
Odd, I didn't see it on my demo of a QLED display of a similar size. I'll try to get a white background up for long periods for my next demo of one.
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post #21862 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 02:16 PM
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I looked a long time at the QLEd 82 inchers...major DSE for NHL white ice surface hockey...hockey is the torcher test for DSE...hopefully things have improved...my 85” Sony has 0 DSE...
Put up an all white screen on your NX-7 and set you manual iris to -10 or less.

I bet you will see a discoloration from blue-green on the left to pink on the right. Almost every JVC I have seen exhibits this uniformity error. It is slight but present never the less.

Look at almost any Sony on a pure white screen. Most exhibit some sort of coffee staining look. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen any projector throw a pure bright white uniform image.

They all have artifacts to some degree or another. Most of the time they are not noticeable but if you look for them you will see them.

All panels have uniformity errors and that includes panels used for projectors.
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post #21863 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 02:48 PM
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Thanks, Greg. I am thinking the same and I think that would be a sweet deal that I would be glad to pay for and buy.

Asharma, I would go out and look at some of these QLEDs; their images are breathtaking to say the least. And on a 110 inch display, you may then be seeing my NX7 in the classifieds.
Aziz... I've been thinking the x990 might be my last projector, as a 110" panel would be perfect for my space, and I'd just move the furniture a tad closer.

I'm starting to think we will see larger panel options before we see more/better laser projector options, and that's a shame because I also think better laser projector options are doable but not part of the marketing plan. But hey, whatever.

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post #21864 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 02:57 PM
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Odd, I didn't see it on my demo of a QLED display of a similar size. I'll try to get a white background up for long periods for my next demo of one.
QLED still looks horrible to me; black levels are notably elevated as compared to OLED.
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post #21865 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 03:02 PM
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Asharma, I would go out and look at some of these QLEDs; their images are breathtaking to say the least. And on a 110 inch display, you may then be seeing my NX7 in the classifieds.
In stores you never get to experience the dark performance where you see artifacts like DSE. Do they still look as good with a low ambient level away from the shop floor?
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post #21866 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 03:06 PM
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Aziz... I've been thinking the x990 might be my last projector, as a 110" panel would be perfect for my space, and I'd just move the furniture a tad closer.

I'm starting to think we will see larger panel options before we see more/better laser projector options, and that's a shame because I also think better laser projector options are doable but not part of the marketing plan. But hey, whatever.
Hi, RJ. So what you're sayin' is that Flat Panels might inadvertently punish projection for dragging its feet?

I'm not the type to thumb my nose at anybody, but hey, I do have the right to sell my own projector. And I'm serious, I will. Heck, we can put both of our projectors up for sale at the same time. I can watch sports on a 110" QLED with the lights on. This way if the Giants lose, at least I can say I saw them do so on "the big screen."
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post #21867 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 03:10 PM
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QLED still looks horrible to me; black levels are notably elevated as compared to OLED.
S&V recently did a review on Samsung's QLED with zone dimming and said the contrast was excellent so I'd assume black levels too.

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In stores you never get to experience the dark performance where you see artifacts like DSE. Do they still look as good with a low ambient level away from the shop floor?
Guys, I'll have to revisit the store to conduct a more critical viewing. And I'll have to check that next time.
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post #21868 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 03:18 PM
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I much prefer the look of a projected image
That's a huge overlooked point - my exact thoughts
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post #21869 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 03:22 PM
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How much will a 100+" QLED weigh? One thing I like about a projector is that it is easily moved. I still have a Hitachi 51swx20b that weighs 200+ lbs. It's a total PIA to move and it's on wheels. I don't want to go back to that.

And I agree with Craig, no TV I've ever seen produces an image as lifelike as a projector with a low gain screen. There's just a difference between a panel that emits light and light that is naturally reflected from a surface (like in real life).

Although Craig's projector isn't much lighter. LOL
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post #21870 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
How much will a 100+" QLED weigh? One thing I like about a projector is that it is easily moved. I still have a Hitachi 51swx20b that weighs 200+ lbs. It's a total PIA to move and it's on wheels. I don't want to go back to that.

And I agree with Craig, no TV I've ever seen produces an image as lifelike as a projector with a low gain screen. There's just a difference between a panel that emits light and light that is naturally reflected from a surface (like in real life).

Although Craig's projector isn't much lighter. LOL
I don't think that I would say that my RS3000 is easily moved. I would have to spend several days to take apart my hush box, redo all my cooling system, taking down my screen and remounting everything somewhere else. It would be much easier to move a TV even if it weighed in at 75+ lbs.

I also don't think that you would find many videophiles who would agree with you that projection looks more realistic than Oled or MicroLED. Considering the superior blacks, the infinite contrast, 5000 nit luminance, and much larger color volume than projection.

Of course having said that, I am not going to replace my RS3000 with microLED or Oled until they have at least 133" scope screens down to a reasonable cost and that might be quite awhile. So if JVC comes out with a new projector that improves upon the RS3000 by possible variable dimming using a luminance chip in the light path and/or a laser version that outputs more light then Mike might have at least one or two more projector sales out of me.
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