Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 730 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21871 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 04:34 PM
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Comes a point where bigger trumps fidelity if biggers fidelity is 'close enough'
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post #21872 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
Of course having said that, I am not going to replace my RS3000 with microLED or Oled until they have at least 133" scope screens down to a reasonable cost and that might be quite awhile. So if JVC comes out with a new projector that improves upon the RS3000 by possible variable dimming using a luminance chip in the light path and/or a laser version that outputs more light then Mike might have at least one or two more projector sales out of me.
I'm with you but ... a reasonably-priced, seamless, MicroLED scope screen at ~130" -- we're talking decades or, more likely, never.
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post #21873 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I don't think that I would say that my RS3000 is easily moved. I would have to spend several days to take apart my hush box, redo all my cooling system, taking down my screen and remounting everything somewhere else. It would be much easier to move a TV even if it weighed in at 75+ lbs.

I also don't think that you would find many videophiles who would agree with you that projection looks more realistic than Oled or MicroLED. Considering the superior blacks, the infinite contrast, 5000 nit luminance, and much larger color volume than projection.

Of course having said that, I am not going to replace my RS3000 with microLED or Oled until they have at least 133" scope screens down to a reasonable cost and that might be quite awhile. So if JVC comes out with a new projector that improves upon the RS3000 by possible variable dimming using a luminance chip in the light path and/or a laser version that outputs more light then Mike might have at least one or two more projector sales out of me.
I'm referring to replacing it, having it serviced, needing to move it for some other reason due to maintenance on the house, etc... And 75lbs? The 82" QLED is 100+ lbs. A 100"+ version would likely be in the 150-200 lb range. It would have to be pretty heavy duty to keep it from flexing and warping.

A modular system like they are starting to produce is the only solution I'd be interested in.
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post #21874 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post

Even those Samsung qled displays are going to be pretty nice and consumer priced. Although still limited in size, 100" Qled displays will soon be under $10K. They aren't quite as nice as microLED but still clearly superior to projection in terms of contrast, brightness, and color gamut.

And they'll still lose brightness off axis.

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post #21875 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
I'm referring to replacing it, having it serviced, needing to move it for some other reason due to maintenance on the house, etc... And 75lbs? The 82" QLED is 100+ lbs. A 100"+ version would likely be in the 150-200 lb range. It would have to be pretty heavy duty to keep it from flexing and warping.

A modular system like they are starting to produce is the only solution I'd be interested in.
The modular systems have a ways to go before they are ready for close viewing distances like most of us use.
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post #21876 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 06:23 PM
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A rollable one that's 100"+ might be interesting if it had good enough image quality.
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post #21877 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The modular systems have a ways to go before they are ready for close viewing distances like most of us use.

In a way that was my point. Anything I'd be interested in for a projector replacement isn't going to be viable soon (that most of us can afford anyway) . Modular, rollable, etc...
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post #21878 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
In a way that was my point. Anything I'd be interested in for a projector replacement isn't going to be viable soon (that most of us can afford anyway) . Modular, rollable, etc...
I agree.
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post #21879 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I don't think that I would say that my RS3000 is easily moved. I would have to spend several days to take apart my hush box, redo all my cooling system, taking down my screen and remounting everything somewhere else. It would be much easier to move a TV even if it weighed in at 75+ lbs.

I also don't think that you would find many videophiles who would agree with you that projection looks more realistic than Oled or MicroLED. Considering the superior blacks, the infinite contrast, 5000 nit luminance, and much larger color volume than projection.

Of course having said that, I am not going to replace my RS3000 with microLED or Oled until they have at least 133" scope screens down to a reasonable cost and that might be quite awhile. So if JVC comes out with a new projector that improves upon the RS3000 by possible variable dimming using a luminance chip in the light path and/or a laser version that outputs more light then Mike might have at least one or two more projector sales out of me.
I think I just personally like the look of a projector's image better. But, I watch movies around 95% of the time. I watch nearly no " TV shows ". And admittedly I've reached the apex of projector setups for my theater. I'm satisfied with the picture in my theater as it stands. I feel extremely lucky to have the setup I have. Of course, even if the Micro LED Walls were perfect, I couldn't afford one at $250K+ anyway.
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post #21880 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I think I just personally like the look of a projector's image better. But, I watch movies around 95% of the time. I watch nearly no " TV shows ". And admittedly I've reached the apex of projector setups for my theater. I'm satisfied with the picture in my theater as it stands. I feel extremely lucky to have the setup I have. Of course, even if the Micro LED Walls were perfect, I couldn't afford one at $250K+ anyway.
I doubt we will see affordable microled walls or rollable oleds for anywhere near the picture and size of projectors in over a decade. We always hear how projectors are going to be the thing of the past, but nothing has been in the works for a reasonable price.

It's going to be hard to outmatched the RS4500 on a big screen for under $25K

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post #21881 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 08:18 PM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I think I just personally like the look of a projector's image better. But, I watch movies around 95% of the time. I watch nearly no " TV shows ". And admittedly I've reached the apex of projector setups for my theater. I'm satisfied with the picture in my theater as it stands. I feel extremely lucky to have the setup I have. Of course, even if the Micro LED Walls were perfect, I couldn't afford one at $250K+ anyway.


After having a projector/screen combo for a little over a year, I can tell you that we've enjoyed it even more than we thought we would. I still have two Panasonic VT50 plasmas on the main floor and they're still great. They're fine for watching TV programming along with the occasional movie. But there's a certain charm and nostalgia that I really enjoy when going to the local theater (rarely anymore) or when watching movies in our theater room (every weekend). I don't know if a wall of micro-LED panels could create that same feeling for me...I suppose I'd have to see/experience it first-hand before having an opinion.
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post #21882 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
I'm referring to replacing it, having it serviced, needing to move it for some other reason due to maintenance on the house, etc... And 75lbs? The 82" QLED is 100+ lbs. A 100"+ version would likely be in the 150-200 lb range. It would have to be pretty heavy duty to keep it from flexing and warping.
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post #21883 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 09:58 PM
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Hi, RJ. So what you're sayin' is that Flat Panels might inadvertently punish projection for dragging its feet?

I'm not the type to thumb my nose at anybody, but hey, I do have the right to sell my own projector. And I'm serious, I will. Heck, we can put both of our projectors up for sale at the same time. I can watch sports on a 110" QLED with the lights on. This way if the Giants lose, at least I can say I saw them do so on "the big screen."
Not just the spoon feeding of tech with projectors, which seems to be missing with panel display manufactures moving as fast as they can, but also the continued incidence of the faulty unit lottery.

Regarding panel displays, I'm still rockin' a Sony 929 LED in the family room with zero problems and it still looks awesome, inherent older tech visual challenges aside. It has to be 10+ years old?

I'm glad you snagged a good NX7 to carry you for the foreseeable future. I was tempted by the NX7 demo I saw with you at Brian's shop. However, I just picked up a new bulb from Dominic and I also figure I'll run the x990 with SDR709, SDR2020 and DV LLDV, until something really compelling hits the HT scene in the next couple of years. The possibilities do look very interesting.
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post #21884 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 10:23 PM
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S&V recently did a review on Samsung's QLED with zone dimming and said the contrast was excellent so I'd assume black levels too.
Local dimming annoys me more than anything else as it is so completely obvious.

I don't generally purchase my TVs at a big box, so I in fact do look at it with the lights off, as that's how I watch movies at home.
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post #21885 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 10:35 PM
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Especially on TV's, every Dynamic Contrast I've ever seen on a TV was not implemented correctly, and if people are complaining about their JVC DI which hardly ever even kicks in other than mostly blackout scenes, then I cannot imagine people living with some of the dynamic contrast implementations on TVs.

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post #21886 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 10:40 PM
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If you are in a dark theater room watching a 5000 nit display with infinite contrast, perfect blacks, and BT 2020 color gamut with no fan noise, I don't think a glass screen is going to be any kind of distraction. Reflection only becomes an issue in a bright room and projection isn't even worth watching in a bright room. Projection will be a thing of the past once microLED pricing starts coming down. Granted that will take a number of years to refine the technology and bring down the price.

Even those Samsung qled displays are going to be pretty nice and consumer priced. Although still limited in size, 100" Qled displays will soon be under $10K. They aren't quite as nice as microLED but still clearly superior to projection in terms of contrast, brightness, and color gamut.
I dunno. 65" isn't good enough, neither is 85", neither is 100", neither is 120". It's going to take a lot until projectors are replaced. Most of us have bigger screens than 100".
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post #21887 of 28584 Old 01-07-2020, 10:49 PM
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I dunno. 65" isn't good enough, neither is 85", neither is 100", neither is 120". It's going to take a lot until projectors are replaced. Most of us have bigger screens than 100".
I'm reading your thread on the motorized masking, awesome job man. I am trying to do something sort of similar, but a bit simpler. I will post any feedback in your thread though, rather than here, once I start (it may be a while).
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post #21888 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 06:26 AM
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One of the main reasons that projectors will be around for much longer is for the cinematic experience. Having a TV in a darken room is just not the same. A scope screen or a 120+ pleasing image from a projector screen is just different for the majority of us who put in time to get it right.
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post #21889 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Not just the spoon feeding of tech with projectors, which seems to be missing with panel display manufactures moving as fast as they can, but also the continued incidence of the faulty unit lottery.

Regarding panel displays, I'm still rockin' a Sony 929 LED in the family room with zero problems and it still looks awesome, inherent older tech visual challenges aside. It has to be 10+ years old?

I'm glad you snagged a good NX7 to carry you for the foreseeable future. I was tempted by the NX7 demo I saw with you at Brian's shop. However, I just picked up a new bulb from Dominic and I also figure I'll run the x990 with SDR709, SDR2020 and DV LLDV, until something really compelling hits the HT scene in the next couple of years. The possibilities do look very interesting.
Have you read the flat panel threads. If you think the talk of projector lottery is bad, you will be shocked reading the flat panel threads. I was shopping for a new 75" TV and read through many of the Sony, Vizio and Samsung threads. I ended up with a Samsung Q80. I seriously considered the Vizio P Series Quantum X, but the panel lottery is huge with that one. Heck it is pretty bad with the Samsung also, but not as bad as the Vizio.

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post #21890 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Have you read the flat panel threads. If you think the talk of projector lottery is bad, you will be shocked reading the flat panel threads. I was shopping for a new 75" TV and read through many of the Sony, Vizio and Samsung threads. I ended up with a Samsung Q80. I seriously considered the Vizio P Series Quantum X, but the panel lottery is huge with that one. Heck it is pretty bad with the Samsung also, but not as bad as the Vizio.
I went thru the same process for my hockey tv...had to go with a set with minimal/no DSE...totally distracting for me...

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post #21891 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 08:56 AM
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I dunno. 65" isn't good enough, neither is 85", neither is 100", neither is 120". It's going to take a lot until projectors are replaced. Most of us have bigger screens than 100".
Yep.

It's funny over the Blu-ray site, people who have never seen front projection (let alone, a good set-up and room) claim they are getting the same experience sitting super close to their 55" and 65" flat panels. I always chuckle. I tell them, based on that logic, maybe we can all just sit one foot away from a 12" wide monitor and call it a day.
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post #21892 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 09:03 AM
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One of the main reasons that projectors will be around for much longer is for the cinematic experience. Having a TV in a darken room is just not the same. A scope screen or a 120+ pleasing image from a projector screen is just different for the majority of us who put in time to get it right.
However, the cinematic experience is changing.

As dynamic range expands, color gamut expands, and resolution increase perpetuates it's way into the creating of video content then the only way to get a true cinematic experience will be with large flat panel displays. It won't be TV anymore it will be video content from streaming, disk, and gaming. Even local movie houses will be moving to large flat panel displays once the technology is feasible at a reasonable cost. Projection just can't match the image that a true emissive display like Oled can produce. They don't have the black levels, color volume, and luminance of an emissive display.

There will always be those that enjoy black and white projection on a small silver screen with an organ playing in the front of the house but that doesn't mean that it will be prevalent in the future.
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post #21893 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 09:18 AM
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After having my NX7 for a month now, I have only one real complaint and it has nothing to do with the projector. Many streaming services place the Closed Caption in the letter box area. Some have it so part is in the picture and part in the black bar area or all in the black bar. This create a small problem for viewing scope video full screen in that you cannot read the text. A minor problem but still one. My Panny Ub 9000 allows me to re-position the CC for blurays. Would sure be nice if these streaming services offered the same option.
One good thing with a large screen is if i really want to see the CC I can always put it back to 16:9 and still get a large image that I can enjoy, just not as much as if I went full screen.
I am using a DCR lens and switching between Anamorphic C and D is a lot faster and easier than playing with lens shift, just wish the price was a little more reasonable.
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post #21894 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 09:53 AM
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Remember the 103" Panasonic Plasma at $50K on the street and weighted 1000 pounds......
I went to a guy's house the other day to pick up an amp and he had one of these behemoths in his lounge as his daily driver (!). Was a nice enough picture for a "big TV", but that's exactly what it was and seeing it in action really drove home why I like my projection setup so much...
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post #21895 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 10:01 AM
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NEC C981Q 98"

Weight 198.4 lb / 89.99 kg (without Stand)

Carrying handles <<<< lol

Remember the 103" Panasonic Plasma at $50K on the street and weighted 1000 pounds......
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I went to a guy's house the other day to pick up an amp and he had one of these behemoths in his lounge as his daily driver (!). Was a nice enough picture for a "big TV", but that's exactly what it was and seeing it in action really drove home why I like my projection setup so much...
Bob,

And another Major Consideration for some of us ???
Last time I saw anything that HUGE it doesn't Bend to take it around sharp-corners to take it up to a Bonus Room.
In other words generally speaking they more than likely go on the 1st floor ............






Terry

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post #21896 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 10:10 AM
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As dynamic range expands, color gamut expands, and resolution increase perpetuates it's way into the creating of video content then the only way to get a true cinematic experience will be with large flat panel displays. It won't be TV anymore it will be video content from streaming, disk, and gaming.

Even local movie houses will be moving to large flat panel displays once the technology is feasible at a reasonable cost.
Sure. I'll take the opposing view. Adoption of 50ft wide panel displays by commercial theaters will not happen in the next 20 years.

I had been predicting the demise of the home panel display, but if this roll up tech becomes real, then I'll have to take the 'L'.

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post #21897 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 11:00 AM
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Bob,
And another Major Consideration for some of us ???
Last time I saw anything that HUGE it doesn't Bend to take it around sharp-corners to take it up to a Bonus Room.
In other words generally speaking they more than likely go on the 1st floor ............
Yup, it's a big deal. When we built my room, we had enough fun getting some of the screen frame pieces into the room due to doorways in the wrong place, low ceilings, tight corners, etc. I think that is where the rollable displays come in, though I'm sure it's still got to be treated with kid gloves which is hard when you're trying to manoeuvre stuff around corners.
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post #21898 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
However, the cinematic experience is changing.

As dynamic range expands, color gamut expands, and resolution increase perpetuates it's way into the creating of video content then the only way to get a true cinematic experience will be with large flat panel displays. It won't be TV anymore it will be video content from streaming, disk, and gaming. Even local movie houses will be moving to large flat panel displays once the technology is feasible at a reasonable cost. Projection just can't match the image that a true emissive display like Oled can produce. They don't have the black levels, color volume, and luminance of an emissive display.

There will always be those that enjoy black and white projection on a small silver screen with an organ playing in the front of the house but that doesn't mean that it will be prevalent in the future.
With RGB laser you can get full BT2020 and you can get the lumens needed for HDR, so I don't see flat panel as the only way. I agree that commercial movie theater houses will most likely go to flat panel displays, but the first row is what, 15' from the screen, so it works for commercial a lot easier than it does for residential.

Talk to those that have seen the Christie projector. I agree, it is not quite the same as OLED, but it is a lot closer than you think.
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post #21899 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 01:15 PM
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After having my NX7 for a month now, I have only one real complaint and it has nothing to do with the projector. Many streaming services place the Closed Caption in the letter box area. Some have it so part is in the picture and part in the black bar area or all in the black bar. This create a small problem for viewing scope video full screen in that you cannot read the text. A minor problem but still one. My Panny Ub 9000 allows me to re-position the CC for blurays. Would sure be nice if these streaming services offered the same option.
One good thing with a large screen is if i really want to see the CC I can always put it back to 16:9 and still get a large image that I can enjoy, just not as much as if I went full screen.
I am using a DCR lens and switching between Anamorphic C and D is a lot faster and easier than playing with lens shift, just wish the price was a little more reasonable.
I agree completely! I have the same set-up (although have the UB820, rather than the UB9000), and *really* wish they would add this capability to Roku's or other streaming devices!

JVC NX7, DCR Lens, Marantz SR7010, Screen Innovations 160" 2.35:1 Screen
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post #21900 of 28584 Old 01-08-2020, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
With RGB laser you can get full BT2020 and you can get the lumens needed for HDR, so I don't see flat panel as the only way. I agree that commercial movie theater houses will most likely go to flat panel displays, but the first row is what, 15' from the screen, so it works for commercial a lot easier than it does for residential.

Talk to those that have seen the Christie projector. I agree, it is not quite the same as OLED, but it is a lot closer than you think.
I would love to see the Christie projector and I am sure it throws an outstanding picture. Hopefully some of that tech will filter down into an affordable consumer projector.
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