Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 747 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22381 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Even more of a difference now with ST130 G4. G4 has noticeably less sparkle than G3.
i had a lengthy discussion with Stewart last week...Depending on size of room (mine is only 12 wide by 17 deep) and size of screen (mine is 2.35,125' diagonal), and room treatment (mine is a triple black velvet cave), the ST100 is highly recommended because of its uniformity and because there is no coating it will produce the highest dynamic range between black and white...
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post #22382 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 09:58 AM
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i had a lengthy discussion with Stewart last week...Depending on size of room (mine is only 12 wide by 17 deep) and size of screen (mine is 2.35,125' diagonal), and room treatment (mine is a triple black velvet cave), the ST100 is highly recommended because of its uniformity and because there is no coating it will produce the highest dynamic range between black and white...
Wouldnt you have to run the PJ in High mode to get decent HDR performance?

Only of my reason to go with higher gain was to be able to get by low mode and still get 100 nits or so

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post #22383 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 09:59 AM
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Wouldnt you have to run the PJ in High mode to get decent HDR performance?

Only of my reason to go with higher gain was to be able to get by low mode and still get 100 nits or so
Correct, 100 percent of my HDR viewing is in high lamp...Also 100 percent of my viewing is HDR only...

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post #22384 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
i had a lengthy discussion with Stewart last week...Depending on size of room (mine is only 12 wide by 17 deep) and size of screen (mine is 2.35,125' diagonal), and room treatment (mine is a triple black velvet cave), the ST100 is highly recommended because of its uniformity and because there is no coating it will produce the highest dynamic range between black and white...
No doubt, in a good room, if you have the lumens to light up ST100, you will be best served with that fabric. But if you have a larger screen, where you need more brightness, then ST130 G4 is the way to go.
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post #22385 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 10:38 AM
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Thank you for taking the time to go and find this information it is supremely appreciated and very helpful thanks again

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post #22386 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 11:21 AM
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A tip for charging 3D glasses:

I bought a quartet of Hi-SHOCK RF-synch'ed 3D glasses to go with the JVC RF emitter.

They charge with a specialized cable with a plug for the glasses that looks like - but is a bit smaller than - the microUSB plugs we've become familiar with. The other end, however, plugs into a standard USB jack on a charger or computer.

As an experiment, I plugged the glasses into a jack on my PC to see if it made only a power connection or made a data connection as well. No chime, and it wasn't shown on the list of connected devices.

That meant it did not make a data connection, so it's safe to plug into any device for power.

My Oppo has two USB jacks on its rear panel, the JVC has one, and my 4K Comcast cable box has one.

None of those devices gave any indication on screen that they noticed that the glasses were plugged into them, so I didn't have to bother plugging in power adapters, and don't have spend additional power on them beyond what the existing devices draw. (There's always some wasted power in a USB power adapter - not all of it gets to the jack.)

I have 6 glasses and bought an external USB hub that connects to a power outlet. It can charge upto 10 usb devices at once. I use this method to charge all glasses at one shot. Very easy to use and allows for a central location for charging everything.

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post #22387 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 11:39 AM
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This is Kris Deering's quote over on the "JVC Announces Major HDR Update for 4K D-ILA Projectors" thread, post number 856: "The issue with using the Optimizer BEFORE the DTM of the JVC is that you are relying on the Panasonic to do a static tone map based on what is typically incomplete (or wrong) metadata for the content, thereby limiting the overall potential of the content before JVC even gets it."

Also, on that same thread on the next post, post 857, he was asked: "At the time of the Panasonic 820 release, I thought it was stated that only a couple of discs had wrong metadata; is this no longer known to be the case - most discs have wrong data? Should the Optimizer just be turned off?

And he replied on the next post, post 858: "MaxCLL is missing from all the Disney/Fox titles. MaxCLL is frequently wrong on Warner and Sony titles and Metadata overall with Lionsgate is sketchy. The point of the Optimizer with Panasonic (with HDR output set to ON) is to help tone map the portion of the image that the display in use can't do with its light output. The point of the DTM in the JVC is to ignore all the metadata and actually tone map on a frame by frame or scene by scene basis based on analysis of the content itself. So using the Optimizer is going to change that content already before the JVC gets it and since the Panasonic is rolling off the high end already, the DTM doesn't get the benefit of seeing the full intended signal. It may still look fine, I just don't see the point in the compromise."

Hopefully that answers your question as to what is the technical reason to shut off the HDR Optimizer.
Been considering the NX7 for a while, thanks for the detailed explanation about the drawbacks of the current metadata-based solutions.
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post #22388 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 11:42 AM
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Been considering the NX7 for a while, thanks for the detailed explanation about the drawbacks of the current metadata-based solutions.


MadVR which is best in class DTM has the same approach they measure each and every frame and then apply tone mapping.

JVC is not as sophisticated as MadVR but the results are surprisingly good given how limited the customizations are for the JVC (basically only high medium and low selections)




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post #22389 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ClemsonChad View Post
Looking for some feedback please. I am super close to upgrading from a JVC RS-520 to the new RS-2000/NX7, but information that’s I have read regarding worse contrast has me wavering.
I have not seen one person with the new models question there choice compared to the old model. There have been more then a few that have updated.
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post #22390 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
MadVR which is best in class DTM has the same approach they measure each and every frame and then apply tone mapping.

JVC is not as sophisticated as MadVR but the results are surprisingly good given how limited the customizations are for the JVC (basically only high medium and low selections)

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Been doing research on the madVR. I think a dedicated HTPC is a little beyond me (I got an Oppo 203 right after they went out of business). I assume the Envy hardware device will be pretty expensive. Could you play black Netlinx / Prime video on the madVR HTPC?
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post #22391 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tubagod101 View Post
Been doing research on the madVR. I think a dedicated HTPC is a little beyond me (I got an Oppo 203 right after they went out of business). I assume the Envy hardware device will be pretty expensive. Could you play black Netlinx / Prime video on the madVR HTPC?
Nah, HDCP licensing issues, browser enforcement to lower resolutions, and yada yada yada. Is there some hacked method I'm not aware of, maybe, but the only one I heard anyone post about was a cache hack from the browser, but it was limited 720p.
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post #22392 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:08 PM
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Nah, HDCP licensing issues, browser enforcement to lower resolutions, and yada yada yada. Is there some hacked method I'm not aware of, maybe, but the only one I heard anyone post about was a cache hack from the browser, but it was limited 720p.
Thanks for the info. That's definitely a point in favor of the hardware solution.
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post #22393 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
MadVR which is best in class DTM has the same approach they measure each and every frame and then apply tone mapping.

JVC is not as sophisticated as MadVR but the results are surprisingly good given how limited the customizations are for the JVC (basically only high medium and low selections)
The Lumagen Radiance Pro is also a major contender here, albeit one with a substantial price tag.

Regarding the JVC, you're correct that it does quite a good job all things considered. The High/Medium/Low choices can be expanded a bit if you're using a Panasonic UHD Player, which offers 'Dynamic Range Adjustment' for HDR content. This provides finer control in the final image, and can be combined with choice of HDR level on the JVC. That's what I've been doing at this point, to tweak the picture when needed for the occasional outlier which doesn't look quite right with my default settings.

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post #22394 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:18 PM
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Wow. I'm doing good if I watch one movie every week or two!

Often it's just one per month when me and some friends get together for a movie night.
I usually watch 2 or 3 movies a week. This week it's Shape of Water tonight, The Joker on Wed., Her Friday night, and a Deadpool double feature on Sat. night ! And 4 - 6 guests every night. Party on !
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post #22395 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:24 PM
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Well, it appears that you are more of a party guy than I. I usually just watch one of my TVs when it's just me. Seems unnecessary to fire up the projector then and I don't feel I need to watch for very long. TVs don't have the bulb strike wear that my projector does when I decide 10 or 15 minutes was all I could commit to it.
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post #22396 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ClemsonChad View Post
Looking for some feedback please. I am super close to upgrading from a JVC RS-520 to the new RS-2000/NX7, but information that’s I have read regarding worse contrast has me wavering.

We sit 13’ or so from a 150” AT screen, but I’m about to change the screen to a 135” 1.1-1.3 gain screen (Stewart ST130 or Cima Neve) to get a little more pop/brightness from our picture and to help with HDR. Our walls are dark and the ceiling is about to be painted the same color to help. We have three windows which are covered about 98% by blackout blinds. Most viewing is done at night regardless and consists of ~75% movies and ~25% sports.

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts and feedback.
I don't know anyone that has replaced an RS520 / 540 with an RS2000 / NX7 that regrets the move. Far from it. I myself went from an RS600 to an RS4500. On paper that is a massive drop in native contrast. On paper. In reality, on the screen, the RS4500 looks much sharper / better in every way except maybe 10th of 1% of the time.
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post #22397 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:36 PM
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Been considering the NX7 for a while, thanks for the detailed explanation about the drawbacks of the current metadata-based solutions.
Anytime Thank Kris Deering actually. This article from him might be helpful to you as well: https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...mapping-update
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post #22398 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:42 PM
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Anytime Thank Kris Deering actually. This article from him might be helpful to you as well: https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...mapping-update
That's the article that got me convinced that I needed the NX7!
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post #22399 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:45 PM
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The Lumagen Radiance Pro is also a major contender here, albeit one with a substantial price tag.

Regarding the JVC, you're correct that it does quite a good job all things considered. The High/Medium/Low choices can be expanded a bit if you're using a Panasonic UHD Player, which offers 'Dynamic Range Adjustment' for HDR content. This provides finer control in the final image, and can be combined with choice of HDR level on the JVC. That's what I've been doing at this point, to tweak the picture when needed for the occasional outlier which doesn't look quite right with my default settings.
Interesting info on the Panasonic UHD. I bought an Oppo 203 a few years ago. I guess I could get a Panasonic to go with the JVC, but that's a lot for one feature.
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post #22400 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:45 PM
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That's the article that got me convinced that I needed the NX7!
Awesome
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post #22401 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 12:46 PM
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I guess I could get a Panasonic to go with the JVC, but that's a lot for one feature.
I paid $130 for the Panny 420, new from a sale and it has the same tone mapping features. It's currently a bit more than that right now, but it's not that expensive. I'm not sure how much benefit the Panny would provide on the newer JVC's, but you could try it.

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post #22402 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 01:06 PM
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Interesting info on the Panasonic UHD. I bought an Oppo 203 a few years ago. I guess I could get a Panasonic to go with the JVC, but that's a lot for one feature.
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I paid $130 for the Panny 420, new from a sale and it has the same tone mapping features. It's currently a bit more than that right now, but it's not that expensive. I'm not sure how much benefit the Panny would provide on the newer JVC's, but you could try it.
I was going to say the same thing as Coderguy - the UB420 would be my first choice, for relatively little money.

As to its necessity, that's a tougher call. In my particular case, I have the DRA Slider on the Panasonic at +4, with the JVC HDR Level on High (I have a large 160" diagonal scope screen), and that seems to be just right for perhaps 70-80% of the movies I watch. With the others, I have to either make subtle adjustments with the slider, or grosser changes by going to HDR Level of Medium on the JVC, or possibly a combination of the two.

You wouldn't have to decide up-front anyway. Just get the Projector, use your current player, and see what the results are using the JVC's Low/Medium/High adjustments. If you need finer adjustments, you could always add the UB420 (and wait for it to go on sale in the interim).
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post #22403 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 01:14 PM
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I was going to say the same thing as Coderguy - the UB420 would be my first choice, for relatively little money.

As to its necessity, that's a tougher call. In my particular case, I have the DRA Slider on the Panasonic at +4, with the JVC HDR Level on High (I have a large 160" diagonal scope screen), and that seems to be just right for perhaps 70-80% of the movies I watch. With the others, I have to either make subtle adjustments with the slider, or grosser changes by going to HDR Level of Medium on the JVC, or possibly a combination of the two.

You wouldn't have to decide up-front anyway. Just get the Projector, use your current player, and see what the results are using the JVC's Low/Medium/High adjustments. If you need finer adjustments, you could always add the UB420 (and wait for it to go on sale in the interim).
do you have the lamp in high lampmode also?
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post #22404 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 01:31 PM
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do you have the lamp in high lampmode also?
I do. To me, I don't worry about this, bulb life, etc. That's a small amount relatively speaking, compared to everything else!

Low lamp for SDR, High for HDR.
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post #22405 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 01:42 PM
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do you have the lamp in high lampmode also?
The bulbs are definitely a lot better, plus these JVC's are fairly bright. The newer NX are like the RS4xx/5xx/6xx, good bulbs. The older e-shift models have a bit of a pulsing effect most noticeable on a white background. Thought it was my bulb, but people are saying it is just the way these e-shifters are, but it happens regardless of e-shift on or off.

All that said, bulb life seems good, so not sure it's a huge worry anymore to run on lamp high. Anytime you run a projector on lamp high, you do SLIGHTLY risk the lamp eventually having a higher chance of exploding. I speak from almost 20 years of using lamp based projectors, some just have better cooling and ballasts than others.

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post #22406 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 01:45 PM
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I do. To me, I don't worry about this, bulb life, etc. That's a small amount relatively speaking, compared to everything else!

Low lamp for SDR, High for HDR.
You got a completely dark room and what type screen do you use, and how close do you have projector to were you are sitting? Like a wrote before i don have a dark room in a sence. white celling and one wall is white and a grey screen. I have my projector a little bit behind me on the celling. I thinks it to loud in high lampmode but ofcourse the picture is best with that. So i have in hdr the lamp in low and Dtm on high. Its gets pretty close to high lampmode with auto on Dtm.
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Originally Posted by tubagod101 View Post
Interesting info on the Panasonic UHD. I bought an Oppo 203 a few years ago. I guess I could get a Panasonic to go with the JVC, but that's a lot for one feature.
I sold my Oppo 203 for double of what I paid for it. Then, I just went the pc route for MadVR. Now everything is phenomenal thanks to Oppo 😁
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post #22408 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Joey_ View Post
You got a completely dark room and what type screen do you use, and how close do you have projector to were you are sitting? Like a wrote before i don have a dark room in a sence. white celling and one wall is white and a grey screen. I have my projector a little bit behind me on the celling. I thinks it to loud in high lampmode but ofcourse the picture is best with that. So i have in hdr the lamp in low and Dtm on high. Its gets pretty close to high lampmode with auto on Dtm.
My room is not a "bat cave" - reasonable amount of black velvet at the front of the room, with many dark brown window treatments. But medium tan/brown walls, and a white ceiling (vaulted, so not too close to the screen). So not as good as those with "bat caves" but probably a little better than yours, based on your description.

I have a Screen Innovations Solar White screen - it has a nominal gain of 1.3.

I'm a little older than many here, so my high frequency hearing isn't what it was. I sit about 14' 4" from the screen, and the Projector is at 18' 2", and at about an 8 to 9 foot height. I can hear the fan in High Lamp if there's no audio during a movie, but it is not apparent (to me at least!) when there is any dialogue, music, etc.

Everything in life is a compromise, so you have to decide if the added picture quality using High Lamp is worth more to you than the distraction of the fan noise. Different people will make different decisions, so there is no 'right or wrong' here.

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post #22409 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
My room is not a "bat cave" - reasonable amount of black velvet at the front of the room, with many dark brown window treatments. But medium tan/brown walls, and a white ceiling (vaulted, so not too close to the screen). So not as good as those with "bat caves" but probably a little better than yours, based on your description.

I have a Screen Innovations Solar White screen - it has a nominal gain of 1.3.

I'm a little older than many here, so my high frequency hearing isn't what it was. I sit about 14' 4" from the screen, and the Projector is at 18' 2", and at about an 8 to 9 foot height. I can hear the fan in High Lamp if there's no audio during a movie, but it is not apparent (to me at least!) when there is any dialogue, music, etc.

Everything in life is a compromise, so you have to decide if the added picture quality using High Lamp is worth more to you than the distraction of the fan noise. Different people will make different decisions, so there is no 'right or wrong' here.
Iam very sensitive to sound but also when it come to picture quality. I have a very hard time decide. It looks very good with lamp on low and high On Dtm, but its better on high in lampmode. Mabey i should look at couple of more movies on the setting i have now. What a problem to have
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post #22410 of 27742 Old 01-20-2020, 02:14 PM
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I bought a pair of Oppo UDP-203 players when they announced they were ceasing production of players last spring: one for my theater and one for my living room.

Decided I don't need 4K in my living room and my old BDP-93 would do in that system, so I sold one of the 203s for about what I paid for it this past summer - and was planning on buying a Panasonic UB9000 to go with the RS440 I had bought last summer.

But then I persuaded my JVC dealer to let me trade in my unopened RS440 towards the RS1000 this past fall, since construction delays had pushed things to where I could afford to upgrade. They gave me 75% of what I'd paid for the RS440 as a trade-in credit, and then the announcement of the DTM firmware allowed me to pass on the UB9000 and stay with the Oppo. I would have hung onto the Oppo regardless, since I could never get confirmation that the Panny could output surround music played via DLNA in 5.1 over HDMI, which the Oppo can do.

That saved me $1,000 (the price of the Panny) on the upgrade.

Sometimes things just work out for the best (though I still wish Oppo hadn't said goodbye).

Phil
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