Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread - Page 771 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23101 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Philnick View Post
The entire screen wall is painted with Cream and Sugar Ultra. No border, other than the presence of my loudspeakers on either side (and center channel two feet below) but they're all outside not just the image grid but the entire illuminated area. I align the top of the image grid an inch or so below the ceiling (it curves down a bit in the center, or I'd move the image up a little more).

The unpainted plaster starts nine or so feet from the screen, a foot or so in front of my head.

I would think that, if anything, splashback light from the walls would make the letterbox and pillarbox bars less visible rather than more, by helping them blend in with the surrounding wall.
That indeed explains it then, I wasn't aware you were running borderless with no masking at all. When you have content on the screen, the reflected light from the room back to the screen is raising the black level of the screen wall outside of your imaging area. It doesn't need to be raised by much to make the bars disappear as they are quite dark...

Your image would probably benefit in "pop" from being masked with black borders (most think it does) - but with fixed borders it will accentuate the issue of incorrect masking for whatever ratio you didn't mask to as you'll (not) see the black borders and then you definitely will see the grey bars. Plus you get exposed to the lens shift variance (though I understand this is much reduced on the new series due to beefier lens mount).

If you like it as is, best carry on enjoying it If you wanted an "educational" experiment to see the effect of masking, you could just get a sample of black triple velvet or Protostar and hold it against your screen wall adjacent to the area of the black bars (as if it were a piece of projector frame. If from seating position you can see the black velvet stand out against the black bars as being blacker, then this is what you're missing from not having masking. If you can't see the velvet, then congratulate yourself!
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post #23102 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Not a calibration issue, the measurements I took today was after a restore of the INIT file, so no autocal except 100% white set to D65.

I have zero interest in investigating this, anything below -12 in SDR is entirely unusable, even with my small 88” diag 16/9 screen (and there is nothing weird in SDR anyway), and I only use fully open in HDR, so I couldn’t care less about what happens below -12.

These -15 settings are only useful to get higher specs, they are not useful in practice. I don’t know anyone who is using a recent JVC with the iris fully closed, even in SDR (with a standard peak of 50-60nits).
I'm using -13 for both SDR and HDR and just toggling low/high lamp. That gives me about 70 nits and 100 nits. I have a 106" HP screen and RS540. My numbers assume a 1.5 effective gain.
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post #23103 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
I'm using -13 for both SDR and HDR and just toggling low/high lamp. That gives me about 70 nits and 100 nits. I have a 106" HP screen and RS540. My numbers assume a 1.5 effective gain.


Instead of burning through the lamp why wouldn’t you continue to use low lamp but open the iris more?

What is the logic - just trying to understand


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post #23104 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post
The entire screen wall is painted with Cream and Sugar Ultra. No border, other than the presence of my loudspeakers on either side (and center channel two feet below) but they're all outside not just the image grid but the entire illuminated area. I align the top of the image grid an inch or so below the ceiling (it curves down a bit in the center, or I'd move the image up a little more).

The unpainted plaster starts nine or so feet from the screen, a foot or so in front of my head.

I would think that, if anything, splashback light from the walls would make the letterbox and pillarbox bars less visible rather than more, by helping them blend in with the surrounding wall.
That indeed explains it then, I wasn't aware you were running borderless with no masking at all. When you have content on the screen, the reflected light from the room back to the screen is raising the black level of the screen wall outside of your imaging area. It doesn't need to be raised by much to make the bars disappear as they are quite dark...

Your image would probably benefit in "pop" from being masked with black borders (most think it does) - but with fixed borders it will accentuate the issue of incorrect masking for whatever ratio you didn't mask to as you'll (not) see the black borders and then you definitely will see the grey bars. Plus you get exposed to the lens shift variance (though I understand this is much reduced on the new series due to beefier lens mount).

If you like it as is, best carry on enjoying it [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] If you wanted an "educational" experiment to see the effect of masking, you could just get a sample of black triple velvet or Protostar and hold it against your screen wall adjacent to the area of the black bars (as if it were a piece of projector frame. If from seating position you can see the black velvet stand out against the black bars as being blacker, then this is what you're missing from not having masking. If you can't see the velvet, then congratulate yourself! [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Not being a masochist, I'll pass on that experiment, as I'm not about to start with variable masking - particularly since I like variable aspect ratio films, where masking can't be used at all.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
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post #23105 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by catav View Post
Yes I have. I'm just comparing to Craig's snapshot postings of his 4500. It's such a beautiful and well defined picture. I want one! I'm sure lamp based 4K machines are great, but I see a definite improvement with laser. Maybe its just me?
His camera takes a nice screenshot. I took pictures of my RS4500 and they never turned out that good, but I will admit, I just used my phone.
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post #23106 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Having owned the NX7 for a year can I just say that between the blooming and the Yellow DI, dynamic iris on this PJ is worth horse’s excreta. Totally useless if you have to keep the manual Iris any wider than-7
Is this also an reasonable argument for saving $3K and purchasing an NX5 vs. NX7? I'm on the fence.
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post #23107 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 06:56 AM
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Anyone here utilizing the JVC Screen Adjustment Mode Table?

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post #23108 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by console View Post
Is this also an reasonable argument for saving $3K and purchasing an NX5 vs. NX7? I'm on the fence.
First, most people do not notice this or do not have it as bad. Second, if he had the RS1000/NX5, he would be complaining of the same issue, because both do the same thing, with regards to this yellowing.
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post #23109 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 07:06 AM
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Official JVC RS3000/NX9 - JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 - JVC RS1000/NX5/N5 - Owners Thread

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post #23110 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by console View Post
Is this also an reasonable argument for saving $3K and purchasing an NX5 vs. NX7? I'm on the fence.


No - both have the same iris mechanism.

It’s horrible. But since JVC has such good contrast and most of my content is 4K HDR I am very happy running wide open with manual iris.

Personally if I could go back, I would save the 3K and use it to partially fund an A lens or the forthcoming Envy or build a HTPC. I think those would have given me more bang than the color filter. But that’s just me - others value the color filter more.


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post #23111 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tommarra View Post
Instead of burning through the lamp why wouldn’t you continue to use low lamp but open the iris more?

What is the logic - just trying to understand


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2 reasons.

1. The 540 lamp iris will behave badly sometimes with the SDR and HDR settings different for the manual setting.

1a. I really don't like constantly running the slow and noisy lamp iris anyway.

2. Higher contrast in HDR. My DI doesn't work correctly anymore on my unit, so I prefer the lowest possible manual setting.

I'm using one of Dominic's bare lamps so I'm only burning down a $125 lamp, not $600.
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post #23112 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 08:21 AM
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Well, maybe what I'm seeing as the game changer is the Lumagen in Craigs's setup? Mark, are you also using a Lumagen?
Too bad you are so far away, or you would be welcome to come see my RS4500 in person.
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post #23113 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by console View Post
Is this also an reasonable argument for saving $3K and purchasing an NX5 vs. NX7? I'm on the fence.
I'd say no. A fair number seem to use the iris with no visible issues. In addition the additional iris, the NX7 has higher contrast panels and also has the color filter for expanded P3 color coverage. I have no idea why some people have immediate issues with using the iris and some of us don't. I guess the fact that it also occurred on the RSxxx e-shift units, but went by largely undetected may mean it's something you are sensitive to or not.

Take the Greatest Showman. The Opera scene is supposed to show horrible blooming on the NX7 with the iris enabled. Yet here's a capture shot with my cellphone (not paused btw). Apeture -3, Auto 2. I certainly don't see anything off.
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post #23114 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 08:26 AM
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Well, maybe what I'm seeing as the game changer is the Lumagen in Craigs's setup? Mark, are you also using a Lumagen?
You might also be seeing the effect of the DRC lens ( on scope movie screen shots anyway ).
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post #23115 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 08:35 AM
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His camera takes a nice screenshot. I took pictures of my RS4500 and they never turned out that good, but I will admit, I just used my phone.
Indeed, as do I. Maybe I should stop being so lazy and get that DSLR out of the cupboard....

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You might also be seeing the effect of the DRC lens ( on scope movie screen shots anyway ).
Sorry, DRC lens? Dynamic Range Control?

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post #23117 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 08:46 AM
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Sorry, DRC lens? Dynamic Range Control?
He meant DCR as in the Panamorph Paladin DCR

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Sorry, DRC lens? Dynamic Range Control?
https://www.panamorph.com/home-theater-lens-systems/

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post #23119 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 09:10 AM
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Sorry, DRC lens? Dynamic Range Control?
Typo, as I've barely had 2 cups of coffee so far out here on the Left Coast.
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post #23120 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 09:13 AM
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Typo, as I've barely had 2 cups of coffee so far out here on the Left Coast.
Fair enough.

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What actually does DCR stand for though?

Edit, just seen it: Digital Cinema Resolution...

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post #23122 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 09:17 AM
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Am I missing something here, I thought the new NX series had dynamic tonal mapping at the frame by frame level.... surely you would leave the Panasonic’s HDR optimiser to the OFF position and set the JVC’s HDR (DTM) to level by frame?
There are some additional options and things they can do with the Panny/JVC NX combo I believe per Dominic's various settings. I don't know as I don't own that projector.

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Anyone here utilizing the JVC Screen Adjustment Mode Table?

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Guess so... I’m using screen adjustment 74, for a stewart firehawk.
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post #23124 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 10:06 AM
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Guess so... I’m using screen adjustment 74, for a stewart firehawk.
Thx for your reply, I stubbled on this by accident on JVC's website.

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post #23126 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 11:28 AM
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What actually does DCR stand for though?

Edit, just seen it: Digital Cinema Resolution...
Damn Crisply Resolved.
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post #23127 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 01:31 PM
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Anyone here utilizing the JVC Screen Adjustment Mode Table?



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Using 114bfor a Screen Innovations slate 1.2 screen. Not sure if it made any difference.

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Actually would appreciate if someone could explain what does Screen Adjustment actually do


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post #23129 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 01:45 PM
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Actually would appreciate if someone could explain what does Screen Adjustment actually do


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In a perfect world, all screens would be D65. But screens do vary. Very few are actually D65. The screen adjustment number is an allowance between D65 and what the screen that you use is. So the projector tries to allow for that difference.
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post #23130 of 25490 Old 02-05-2020, 02:02 PM
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In a perfect world, all screens would be D65. But screens do vary. Very few are actually D65. The screen adjustment number is an allowance between D65 and what the screen that you use is. So the projector tries to allow for that difference.

Yeah makes total sense ! No I am kidding. I didn’t get that at all :-) what does It mean that a screen is D65


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Gear: Fronts: B&W 804D3 | Center: B&W HTM2D3 | Surrounds: B&W 705S2 | Backs: B&W 684S2 | Heights: B&W DM601S3 | Subs: 3x PSA S1500 Receiver & Amps: Anthem MRX 720 + Monoprice Monolith 7x200 + Emotiva BasX-5 | Projector: JVC NX7 | Screen: 126 inch 16:9 Stewart Studiotek 130 G4 | Source: HTPC with Nvidia 2070, Kodi + External Player: MPC-HC with MadVR (for Blu-ray rips), Nvidia Shield (for streaming content)
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drift , Jvc , nx5 , nx7 , nx9 , pixel alignment , rs1000 , rs2000 , rs3000

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