Optoma P1 4k Laser UST @ CES - Page 78 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 2339 Old 05-20-2020, 09:15 AM
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[quote=Rpmartinez;59678206]
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Originally Posted by ProCentral Rob View Post
Mikkle[/ Optoma P1 vs LGHU85LA cinebeam?


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I have both projectors in house and am now anxious to revisit the LG, which I reviewed last fall and whose performance is no longer in recent memory. My perspective on the 4K UST laser TV category, and my review methodology, have also deepened following my more recent reviews of the VAVA and now this Optoma, so it'll be good to view the LG again through that looking glass. From a pure engineering perspective, the LG's more advanced laser engine should permit wider gamut and better color, and it's dynamic tone-mapping for HDR is probably still an advantage, though I'll be anxious to see if they've done any firmware updates to improve it. It works well, but in retrospect it would also have been nice to have some modicum of additional tone-mapping adjustment on top of whatever the projector's processing settles on, which was not offered in the settings when I reviewed this. The LG did not, at that time offer HLG compatibility, either. The other key distinguishing characteristic for the LG is its advanced smart TV platform, which is carried over from LG's sets. It's also the only one of the three projectors in this class I've reviewed that has a built-in off-air tuner, though I think the Hisense, which we have coming up for review, has one as well. But in general, I think you can say that the LG has much more polished and thoughtful ergonomics overall than the Optoma or VAVA.



That stuff is all superfluous to image quality though. Whether differences in image quality justify the quite significant premium for the LG over the Optoma I can't say without doing a comparison, but the Optoma proved a very good performer for its price. What I can say with certainty right now is that stepping up from the VAVA to the Optoma justifies the much smaller premium in that comparison.



https://www.projectorcentral.com/LG-...tor-Review.htm


https://www.projectorcentral.com/VAV...tor-Review.htm
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post #2312 of 2339 Old 05-20-2020, 11:20 AM
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[quote=ProCentral Rob;59678434]
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Originally Posted by Rpmartinez View Post
I have both projectors in house and am now anxious to revisit the LG, which I reviewed last fall and whose performance is no longer in recent memory. My perspective on the 4K UST laser TV category, and my review methodology, have also deepened following my more recent reviews of the VAVA and now this Optoma, so it'll be good to view the LG again through that looking glass. From a pure engineering perspective, the LG's more advanced laser engine should permit wider gamut and better color, and it's dynamic tone-mapping for HDR is probably still an advantage, though I'll be anxious to see if they've done any firmware updates to improve it. It works well, but in retrospect it would also have been nice to have some modicum of additional tone-mapping adjustment on top of whatever the projector's processing settles on, which was not offered in the settings when I reviewed this. The LG did not, at that time offer HLG compatibility, either. The other key distinguishing characteristic for the LG is its advanced smart TV platform, which is carried over from LG's sets. It's also the only one of the three projectors in this class I've reviewed that has a built-in off-air tuner, though I think the Hisense, which we have coming up for review, has one as well. But in general, I think you can say that the LG has much more polished and thoughtful ergonomics overall than the Optoma or VAVA.



That stuff is all superfluous to image quality though. Whether differences in image quality justify the quite significant premium for the LG over the Optoma I can't say without doing a comparison, but the Optoma proved a very good performer for its price. What I can say with certainty right now is that stepping up from the VAVA to the Optoma justifies the much smaller premium in that comparison.



https://www.projectorcentral.com/LG-...tor-Review.htm


https://www.projectorcentral.com/VAV...tor-Review.htm
Great, thanks Rob!
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post #2313 of 2339 Old 05-20-2020, 02:07 PM
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[quote=ProCentral Rob;59678434]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpmartinez View Post
I have both projectors in house and am now anxious to revisit the LG, which I reviewed last fall and whose performance is no longer in recent memory. My perspective on the 4K UST laser TV category, and my review methodology, have also deepened following my more recent reviews of the VAVA and now this Optoma, so it'll be good to view the LG again through that looking glass. From a pure engineering perspective, the LG's more advanced laser engine should permit wider gamut and better color, and it's dynamic tone-mapping for HDR is probably still an advantage, though I'll be anxious to see if they've done any firmware updates to improve it. It works well, but in retrospect it would also have been nice to have some modicum of additional tone-mapping adjustment on top of whatever the projector's processing settles on, which was not offered in the settings when I reviewed this. The LG did not, at that time offer HLG compatibility, either. The other key distinguishing characteristic for the LG is its advanced smart TV platform, which is carried over from LG's sets. It's also the only one of the three projectors in this class I've reviewed that has a built-in off-air tuner, though I think the Hisense, which we have coming up for review, has one as well. But in general, I think you can say that the LG has much more polished and thoughtful ergonomics overall than the Optoma or VAVA.



That stuff is all superfluous to image quality though. Whether differences in image quality justify the quite significant premium for the LG over the Optoma I can't say without doing a comparison, but the Optoma proved a very good performer for its price. What I can say with certainty right now is that stepping up from the VAVA to the Optoma justifies the much smaller premium in that comparison.



https://www.projectorcentral.com/LG-...tor-Review.htm


https://www.projectorcentral.com/VAV...tor-Review.htm
Rob,

These latest UST projectors seem to do a much better job with black levels and contrast than the short to long throw dlp projectors that use the same chip set. Can you explain why this is so from a technical, hardware and software, viewpoint?

Jack
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post #2314 of 2339 Old 05-20-2020, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProCentral Rob View Post
@Mikkle , thanks for posting our review of the P1 for the community. I was the reviewer and I'm around to respond to any questions anyone has. Just to add something here, Optoma told us that the new firmware could drop anytime from late May through mid-June, so there's a chance it might come early.
Thanks for the clarification Rob! I also just want to take this opportunity to thank you for all the thoughtful and detailed analysis you've contributed to ProjectorCentral over the last two years. The quality of your work is always an inspiration. Cheers!
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post #2315 of 2339 Old 05-20-2020, 03:45 PM
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[quote=JackB;59680406]
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Originally Posted by ProCentral Rob View Post
Rob,

These latest UST projectors seem to do a much better job with black levels and contrast than the short to long throw dlp projectors that use the same chip set. Can you explain why this is so from a technical, hardware and software, viewpoint?
I can't, Jack, and I haven't taken contrast measurements to verify what you're describing, but I subjectively agree with the statement. I noticed on the Optoma and the Vava that you can get fairly deep blacks if you turn down the brightness control, though there's a limit to how low you can get before you crush the shadow details. As to why...I don't have much to even conjecture. Maybe something to do with improvements to the modulation of the laser light source? Prior to the USTs, the contrast/blacks coming off any of the laser projectors I've seen has been a detriment and not a plus.



That said, any time I've done a direct A/B comparison between one of these USTs and my JVC DLA-X790 reference projector (which I'm able to do by alternating the image with a sliding board over the UST lens and the Hide function on the JVC remote), it becomes apparent that the blacks on the USTs still have a long way to go.

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post #2316 of 2339 Old 05-20-2020, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikkle View Post
Thanks for the clarification Rob! I also just want to take this opportunity to thank you for all the thoughtful and detailed analysis you've contributed to ProjectorCentral over the last two years. The quality of your work is always an inspiration. Cheers!
Thanks, that's really appreciated!

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post #2317 of 2339 Old 05-21-2020, 01:07 AM
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Hi, My P1 unit is from Asia. Part no is H1P0A30BR1Z1.

Out of box system and firmware version.
Spoiler!


Was told by my distributor to upgrade to C14.
https://www.optoma.com/ap/product/p1/

I followed the procedure.
After 1st round of upgrading, My system becomes C14, from C12.
Upon shutting down, the unit prompted for update(which according to the procedure is driver update).
It’s mentioned it will take 30mins and it is playing music while it’s updating.
Spoiler!


After full upgrade
Spoiler!

I’ve asked my distributor to ask Optoma on what does these C14 system update covers.

Not sure if it’s placebo effect.
Rewatching Avatar with downlights turn on and HDR Sim mode, the colours are so much vibrant than before.
Hope someone with the AV equipment can verify the projector again after the firmware & system upgrade.

Playing Avatar & its input source shows BT2020 & SDR, instead of BT709. If play HDR movies, it will be BT2020 & HDR
Spoiler!


For display mode i set to other settings except cinema mode, then watch a movie in HDR. After stopping movie and back to Kodi, the display mode will always be default to Cinema mode, instead of the setting i previously use.
So i Guess this remain the same after the upgrade.

Last edited by eurovtec; 05-21-2020 at 02:37 AM.
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I don't think I've seen this mentioned, but when I stream 24hz content, the projector's display freezes and unfreezes every second or so. This happens with all content on Apple TV app and certain Youtube content, both of which I use Roku Ultra to stream. The only way to fix it is to disable Auto-adjust display refresh rate on the Roku. Is this a known issue with the projector or is it not capable of displaying 24hz content?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProCentral Rob View Post
@Mikkle , thanks for posting our review of the P1 for the community. I was the reviewer and I'm around to respond to any questions anyone has. Just to add something here, Optoma told us that the new firmware could drop anytime from late May through mid-June, so there's a chance it might come early.
Hi Rob,

Thanks for your detail review.

Have you tested the PQ of P1 when the tone mapping feature of Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD Blu-ray player was used? Thanks. I am interested in buying UB820 because of the tone mapping but I am not sure if P1 will work well with it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurovtec View Post
Hi, My P1 unit is from Asia. Part no is H1P0A30BR1Z1.

Out of box system and firmware version.
Spoiler!


Was told by my distributor to upgrade to C14.
https://www.optoma.com/ap/product/p1/

I followed the procedure.
After 1st round of upgrading, My system becomes C14, from C12.
Upon shutting down, the unit prompted for update(which according to the procedure is driver update).
It’s mentioned it will take 30mins and it is playing music while it’s updating.
Spoiler!


After full upgrade
Spoiler!

I’ve asked my distributor to ask Optoma on what does these C14 system update covers.

Not sure if it’s placebo effect.
Rewatching Avatar with downlights turn on and HDR Sim mode, the colours are so much vibrant than before.
Hope someone with the AV equipment can verify the projector again after the firmware & system upgrade.

Playing Avatar & its input source shows BT2020 & SDR, instead of BT709. If play HDR movies, it will be BT2020 & HDR
Spoiler!


For display mode i set to other settings except cinema mode, then watch a movie in HDR. After stopping movie and back to Kodi, the display mode will always be default to Cinema mode, instead of the setting i previously use.
So i Guess this remain the same after the upgrade.

C14 had been shown in Taiwan Optoma P1 website for few months already. Recently, I got a chance to use C15 (which was provided by Optoma support in order to resolve my reported issues), the issue of changing back to Cinema mode remains the same. From my observation, C15 seems have resolved some HDR issues with Nvidia Shield TV Pro but I am not sure if this is the version that will be formally released in mid June.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayhk View Post
Hi Rob,

Thanks for your detail review.

Have you tested the PQ of P1 when the tone mapping feature of Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD Blu-ray player was used? Thanks. I am interested in buying UB820 because of the tone mapping but I am not sure if P1 will work well with it.
@rayhk , actually I haven't short of a few brief moments. I made sure to turn off any of the Panny's HDR processing during eval to be certain I was looking at the projector's unmodified HDR pic, and most often used my Sony UBP-X800. I'm actually without a P1 sample now for a little while -- Optoma needed mine back for a bit -- but it's something I'll explore more later. What I can say is that the UB820 is an outstanding player and the level of HDR and other adjustments make it well worthwhile.

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post #2322 of 2339 Old 05-21-2020, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rayhk View Post
C14 had been shown in Taiwan Optoma P1 website for few months already. Recently, I got a chance to use C15 (which was provided by Optoma support in order to resolve my reported issues), the issue of changing back to Cinema mode remains the same. From my observation, C15 seems have resolved some HDR issues with Nvidia Shield TV Pro but I am not sure if this is the version that will be formally released in mid June.
Oh, so you upgraded from C12 to C14? Or your unit is C14 out of the box.
So what are the problems that you are facing that C15 is in the making?

I’m quite certain the colours seems to be better after upgrading from C12 to C14.
Not sure if it’s able to recognise BT2020 rather than BT709??
Or it’s just purely the Color settings?

Left is C12 vs right is C14.
Spoiler!
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post #2323 of 2339 Old 05-21-2020, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ProCentral Rob View Post
@Mikkle , thanks for posting our review of the P1 for the community. I was the reviewer and I'm around to respond to any questions anyone has. Just to add something here, Optoma told us that the new firmware could drop anytime from late May through mid-June, so there's a chance it might come early.
Thank you for clearing explaining why the P1 keeps switching back to the Cinema mode preset. This been driving me nuts as there appeared, to me, to be no way to consistently reproduce the issue. Sometimes I would turn the P1 on and it was in HDR Sim, which I use for most daytime viewing. Other times it would revert to Cinema. You clearly explained the issue and based off some other posts, it does not appear this will be fixed in C14 but will wait to get the official update to see if it's resolved.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
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Thank you for clearing explaining why the P1 keeps switching back to the Cinema mode preset. This been driving me nuts as there appeared, to me, to be no way to consistently reproduce the issue. Sometimes I would turn the P1 on and it was in HDR Sim, which I use for most daytime viewing. Other times it would revert to Cinema. You clearly explained the issue and based off some other posts, it does not appear this will be fixed in C14 but will wait to get the official update to see if it's resolved.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Hopefully it gets fixed with the next update; Optoma was clear with me that this is being addressed in the upcoming fw push.
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post #2325 of 2339 Old 05-21-2020, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ProCentral Rob View Post
@rayhk , actually I haven't short of a few brief moments. I made sure to turn off any of the Panny's HDR processing during eval to be certain I was looking at the projector's unmodified HDR pic, and most often used my Sony UBP-X800. I'm actually without a P1 sample now for a little while -- Optoma needed mine back for a bit -- but it's something I'll explore more later. What I can say is that the UB820 is an outstanding player and the level of HDR and other adjustments make it well worthwhile.
Hi Rob,
Understood. Please help me to check the HDR performance on P1 with UB820 tone mapping on when you have chance. I am also looking forward to seeing your review on P1 again once the official FW upgrade is release. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by eurovtec View Post
Oh, so you upgraded from C12 to C14? Or your unit is C14 out of the box.
So what are the problems that you are facing that C15 is in the making?

I’m quite certain the colours seems to be better after upgrading from C12 to C14.
Not sure if it’s able to recognise BT2020 rather than BT709??
Or it’s just purely the Color settings?

Left is C12 vs right is C14.
Spoiler!
I updated my FW from C12 to C14 to C15. The issues I got are related to the recognition of BT2020 and the dim HDR image when using NVIDIA Shield TV pro and Sony X700. Personally, I feel C15 is more stable.
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post #2327 of 2339 Old 05-22-2020, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by akhizver View Post
I don't think I've seen this mentioned, but when I stream 24hz content, the projector's display freezes and unfreezes every second or so. This happens with all content on Apple TV app and certain Youtube content, both of which I use Roku Ultra to stream. The only way to fix it is to disable Auto-adjust display refresh rate on the Roku. Is this a known issue with the projector or is it not capable of displaying 24hz content?
I use my HTPC on windows.
I found that if i use KODI and play video, even though my refresh rate is 60hz for nvidia setting, when i play the video, it behaves the same way as u describe. Video freeze and unfreeze every sec.
When i go to nvidia setting, i found the refresh rate changed to 23hz.
Once i change it back to 60hz, video will be ok.
Every time I just need to do once in the beginning.
Then i use VLC to play the same video, this freezing won’t happen at all, whether I set to 23hz or 60hz.
Thus I don’t think it’s the streaming issue or the P1 issue, but more of the software of the unit where it’s outputting the video source.
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post #2328 of 2339 Old 05-22-2020, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayhk View Post
I updated my FW from C12 to C14 to C15. The issues I got are related to the recognition of BT2020 and the dim HDR image when using NVIDIA Shield TV pro and Sony X700. Personally, I feel C15 is more stable.
Do you know what fixes are made by C15?
In the firmware page, there are system, MCU & DDP.
When we plug in the USB to upgrade the projector, it’s the system version that change.
The MCU and DDP will be upgraded when we turn off the unit.

I wonder what does MCU & DDP stands for.
It will be great if Optoma list down the changelog for the firmware so that we know the fixes.

Not sure if anyone display windows on your projector.
I find that every time i turn on the projector, when I open a Google chrome(any window with preferably text on the upper left & right corners, it will be more obvious. The focus is always “reset”.
Thus i need to manual adjust the focus of the left by pressing twice to get the focus.
And I need to do it every time the projector is power cycled.
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post #2329 of 2339 Old 05-22-2020, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by eurovtec View Post
I use my HTPC on windows.
I found that if i use KODI and play video, even though my refresh rate is 60hz for nvidia setting, when i play the video, it behaves the same way as u describe. Video freeze and unfreeze every sec.
When i go to nvidia setting, i found the refresh rate changed to 23hz.
Once i change it back to 60hz, video will be ok.
Every time I just need to do once in the beginning.
Then i use VLC to play the same video, this freezing won’t happen at all, whether I set to 23hz or 60hz.
Thus I don’t think it’s the streaming issue or the P1 issue, but more of the software of the unit where it’s outputting the video source.
The reason I don't think it's Roku's software is because when I connect it to my TV, the same 24hz content streams just fine. Maybe ProCentral Rob could explain what might be happening. I'm a noob in the projector world and would love to learn.
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post #2330 of 2339 Old 05-22-2020, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurovtec View Post
Do you know what fixes are made by C15?

In the firmware page, there are system, MCU & DDP.

When we plug in the USB to upgrade the projector, it’s the system version that change.

The MCU and DDP will be upgraded when we turn off the unit.



I wonder what does MCU & DDP stands for.

It will be great if Optoma list down the changelog for the firmware so that we know the fixes.



Not sure if anyone display windows on your projector.

I find that every time i turn on the projector, when I open a Google chrome(any window with preferably text on the upper left & right corners, it will be more obvious. The focus is always “reset”.

Thus i need to manual adjust the focus of the left by pressing twice to get the focus.

And I need to do it every time the projector is power cycled.
I can say that I have never had the P1 lose focus settings and I've had it since launch. I did do the initial upgrade after I received the P1 (C10/11?) as C12 wasn't released until November so it was before C12 was released. It does however change picture settings exactly as described in the detailed projector central review of the P1.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
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post #2331 of 2339 Old 05-22-2020, 09:33 AM
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Hi Rob,
Understood. Please help me to check the HDR performance on P1 with UB820 tone mapping on when you have chance. I am also looking forward to seeing your review on P1 again once the official FW upgrade is release. Thanks.

Sure thing -- two key things to expore.
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Sure thing -- two key things to expore.
Thanks Rob. It will be very appreciated if you can also recommend the calibration settings of both P1 and UB820 after you test them.
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Originally Posted by eurovtec View Post
Do you know what fixes are made by C15?
In the firmware page, there are system, MCU & DDP.
When we plug in the USB to upgrade the projector, it’s the system version that change.
The MCU and DDP will be upgraded when we turn off the unit.

I wonder what does MCU & DDP stands for.
It will be great if Optoma list down the changelog for the firmware so that we know the fixes.
I don't know what change they have made.
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post #2334 of 2339 Old 05-23-2020, 05:17 AM
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Found this simple app(THX tune up) for IOS for calibration.

Notice there’s a TapCast on P1. I think C14 upgrade includes this screen mirroring function.
Once we downloaded tapcast on IOS, we can connect to P1 thru tapcast.
Launch the THX tune up app.
It’s a simple app to help you tune your brightness, contrast & Color.
Spoiler!


However the problem is we can’t adjust the brightness & misc setting At all display mode when at Optoma home screen.
Only able to adjust the brightness/misc setting when P1 is displaying a HDMI source.
Spoiler!
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Hi Guys,

I buyed the Optoma p1 - I’m a casual online gamer - RainbowSix Siege on PS4 - and I Heard- the input lag is very bad?

Knows anyone about a firmware update about a lower lag from 120+ to 70m/s ???

Thx guys
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post #2336 of 2339 Old Yesterday, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Michi9999 View Post
Hi Guys,

I buyed the Optoma p1 - I’m a casual online gamer - RainbowSix Siege on PS4 - and I Heard- the input lag is very bad?

Knows anyone about a firmware update about a lower lag from 120+ to 70m/s ???

Thx guys
We've been told the firmware that will address input lag should be out by early June. Competitive FPS's are not viable with the current lag.
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post #2337 of 2339 Old Yesterday, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by freejak13 View Post
We've been told the firmware that will address input lag should be out by early June. Competitive FPS's are not viable with the current lag.

While 120 to 70 is a big jump I was really hoping it would at least be below 50. Still watching the thread


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post #2338 of 2339 Old Yesterday, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by akhizver View Post
The reason I don't think it's Roku's software is because when I connect it to my TV, the same 24hz content streams just fine. Maybe ProCentral Rob could explain what might be happening. I'm a noob in the projector world and would love to learn.
Hi, after I disabled Kodi adjust refresh rate, I too will not have every sec frame freezing.
Thus I read up on Kodi refresh rate. There’s also another sync to display setting.
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=219796
With that refresh rate setting to enabled, i believe the video source will switch back and forth between different refresh rates due to the content, and sending them to the display.
THus I believe it’s the projector unable to switch the refresh rate “Actively”.
If by enabling the refresh rate setting to have everything work flawlessly, i’m ok with it.
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post #2339 of 2339 Old Today, 06:06 AM
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Thanks Rob. It will be very appreciated if you can also recommend the calibration settings of both P1 and UB820 after you test them.
I can do that!
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