The 2019 model projectors comparison thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
SONY 885/760ES | UNBOXING:







Why does the 760 unboxing look like it is from the seventies?

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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post #392 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I'm pretty sure if I got my hands on a 1000 or 1100ES with no panel degradation, I'd just have kept that and would still have it. I'm happy tone mapping all HDR and if the black floor is actually good, I'd probably have been satisfied.
I sold my VW1100 and changed to a JVC and for me the benefit of Black on JVC had the winning factor, there were no contest.
But YES the Sony VW1100 was sharp and a superb projector. Also had it for 3 years. And the only projector I have used for more than 1000 hours. So answer is there I guess.

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post #393 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I'm pretty sure if I got my hands on a 1000 or 1100ES with no panel degradation, I'd just have kept that and would still have it. I'm happy tone mapping all HDR and if the black floor is actually good, I'd probably have been satisfied.
From the reports and my experience, I'm pretty confident there is no contrast loss on the newer Sonys, the likes of the 285, 295, 385, 675, 695, 885, 995. What I'd like Arrow to check, however, is whether gamma droop is a form of panel degradation on the JVCs and if so, whether it continues to persist on these new ones.
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post #394 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
From the reports and my experience, I'm pretty confident there is no contrast loss on the newer Sonys, the likes of the 285, 295, 385, 675, 695, 885, 995. What I'd like Arrow to check, however, is whether gamma droop is a form of panel degradation on the JVCs and if so, whether it continues to persist on these new ones.
Gamma droop is not the same since it's correctable. I had a demo RS4500 whose date was 10/2017 and ran autocal and it had no gamma droop. @Kris Deering said he's never seen gamma droop on an RS4500. So it's likely JVC's 4K panels, in general, just don't suffer from it. Unfortunately, I think its going to be a while before anyone can start testing that on the new series. You need like 1000 hours to be sure.

The 675ES and 285ES had reports of getting more purplish in the blacks so some panel degradation was still happening fairly recently. It's impossible to get any confirmation from Sony that it's fixed since they refuse to acknowledge that it's an issue to begin with. Cant say something's fixed if you deny it ever happened.

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post #395 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 06:45 AM
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I am wondering, what happens if they disagree with something that you have checked and double checked, using your calibrated test equipment, but they still refute your findings....

..........What happens then?
I provide the measurements to both the company and my editor. We go over it. If they feel it is from a defect in the unit, they can send a replacement for testing. If they can't show otherwise, it is my editor's call. This has never happened though.
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post #396 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 06:47 AM
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Gamma droop is not the same since it's correctable. I had a demo RS4500 whose date was 10/2017 and ran autocal and it had no gamma droop. @Kris Deering said he's never seen gamma droop on an RS4500. So it's likely JVC's 4K panels, in general, just don't suffer from it. Unfortunately, I think its going to be a while before anyone can start testing that on the new series. You need like 1000 hours to be sure.

The 675ES and 285ES had reports of getting more purplish in the blacks so some panel degradation was still happening fairly recently. It's impossible to get any confirmation from Sony that it's fixed since they refuse to acknowledge that it's an issue to begin with. Cant say something's fixed if you deny it ever happened.
I've done a few 4500's with about 400-600 hours and no gamma droop. Last week I did one with about 1100 hours and no gamma droop. So the 4500 definitely seems to be the exception to the rule with the JVCs. So then the question becomes, is it because of the the new 4K panel, or does it have something to do with laser vs bulb? Guess we'll find out with these new models soon.

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post #397 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Gamma droop is not the same since it's correctable. I had a demo RS4500 whose date was 10/2017 and ran autocal and it had no gamma droop. @Kris Deering said he's never seen gamma droop on an RS4500. So it's likely JVC's 4K panels, in general, just don't suffer from it. Unfortunately, I think its going to be a while before anyone can start testing that on the new series. You need like 1000 hours to be sure.

The 675ES and 285ES had reports of getting more purplish in the blacks so some panel degradation was still happening fairly recently. It's impossible to get any confirmation from Sony that it's fixed since they refuse to acknowledge that it's an issue to begin with. Cant say something's fixed if you deny it ever happened.

I'd still like Arrow to test because the chips in these lamp ones are not the same as on the Z1.

On your second point, do you think the fact that Sony implemented, I believe, five safety measures on the 295/695ES/885/995ES amounts to some type of implied concession?
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post #398 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I've done a few 4500's with about 400-600 hours and no gamma droop. Last week I did one with about 1100 hours and no gamma droop. So the 4500 definitely seems to be the exception to the rule with the JVCs. So then the question becomes, is it because of the the new 4K panel, or does it have something to do with laser vs bulb? Guess we'll find out with these new models soon.
Thank you, Kris. I was wanting to know, in your experience with the lamp-based JVCs, is gamma droop always 100 percent correctable regardless of hours/age of the machine?
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post #399 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 07:01 AM
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Thank you, Kris. I was wanting to know, in your experience with the lamp-based JVCs, is gamma droop always 100 percent correctable regardless of hours/age of the machine?
I have never calibrated one that could not be fixed to this day, but I can't say it is impossible.
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post #400 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 07:08 AM
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You have the full right to say what you think and feel.
Many people look at different things and have different preferences.

What problem and why the negative experience on JVC. And what do you like? What do you have?
I know JVC projectors quit well. Feed me with information
Agreed you have a right, and people reading mine or anyone else should weigh it with their bias in hand and don't say we don't have a bias because everyone does be it your picture preference or product.

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I sure hope that people are looking at the collective opinion of people before they lay down thousands of dollars for a projector. You should not take the word of any one person!! And see it before you buy it. Same thing with dealers being a business person I wish everyone of my customers was happy but there are those few that I can't please. But the majority like our service and recommend us. JMO

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post #401 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 08:12 AM
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SONY 885/760ES due to arrive next Wednesday 30th January and JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 next Thursday 31st January... Then the fun begins
That right there is a lot of work, we appreciate it though
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post #402 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 08:54 AM
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I think you made a great choice Markmon. The RS4500 I think will last you for a while. When I upgrade it will be to a RS4500. If I didn’t have to change up my room for it, I probably would have got one already.


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Thanks I look forward to your observations. I usually measure the the native on the Sony every 3-6 months or so once all the degradation news came out. So far any degradation has been light. Over the last 2 years I have used the projector a bit more to keep the panel fitness up so to say. Last measure I was at 12-15k:1 native and 40-45k: 1 dynamic on 1% pattern. Below 1% apl, the iris works pretty aggressive on this sony model so I am in the 350-400k :1 at 0 ire . I use my OLED as a benchmark and so far so good. I have been using the interstellar 53:30 scene as reference for measure. If your native contrast is low that scene is tough to render well. I am looking for about 300-400 extra lumens with the RS3000 and a nice native bump on low apl material. Otherwise I am a happy camper.
I'm pretty sure if I got my hands on a 1000 or 1100ES with no panel degradation, I'd just have kept that and would still have it. I'm happy tone mapping all HDR and if the black floor is actually good, I'd probably have been satisfied.
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And no offense to Kris or Arrow, but your opinion might be as important to those of us who are still deciding. Arrow and Kris have to be fair, unbiased and at times technical where you are coming in like most of us and will have an honest opinion on just what you see minus the science part.
Unfortunately guys, the viewing tonight has been postponed

I will leave it to Nigel to give more info on why, but I therefore can't give any update/view on the projectors.... yet
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post #404 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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OH DEAR!!! It transpires that I have a defective JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 to complement my defective JVC RS3000/NX9! Arrrgghhhh!

There is a considerable undefeatable red push above black and the bottom portion of the image is bright purple and violet:




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post #405 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 12:07 PM
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OH DEAR!!! It transpires that I have a defective JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 to complement my defective JVC RS3000/NX9! Arrrgghhhh!

There is a considerable unfeatable red push above black and the bottom portion of the image is bright purple and violet:



JVC should hand deliver another one to you ASAP. What happened to Q.C. check. These defective units have to be costly for JVC. Two out of two being defective is not a good sign. Heads should roll over this!!!
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post #406 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
OH DEAR!!! It transpires that I have a defective JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 to complement my defective JVC RS3000/NX9! Arrrgghhhh!

There is a considerable unfeatable red push above black and the bottom portion of the image is bright purple and violet:



Not nice. Problem now is the delivery from JVC of new units.

This is a clair DOA.
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post #407 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 12:50 PM
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Hey, at least it's an obvious defect! Better than something subtle.
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post #408 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 12:51 PM
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Are you going to wait until you have another 7 in hand before you start the comparisons? Or will you go ahead with the 9 vs all comers until the 7 shows back up?

PS - are you sure your delivery guy isn't messing with you?
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post #409 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you going to wait until you have another 7 in hand before you start the comparisons? Or will you go ahead with the 9 vs all comers until the 7 shows back up?

PS - are you sure your delivery guy isn't messing with you?
The problem is my RS3000/NX9 is also defective and in more ways than one, and as such I really don't consider it appropriate to use it for such comparison purposes.

So unfortunately I will quite simply have to wait until I receive some decent replacement units from JVC. Wherein, the best I can do is to press JVC to replace the both of these ASAP...

And I know you are joking but my delivery guy is actually me, in that I did not want to risk the projector being shipped by courier so I personally went and collected it directly from JVC's UK distributor

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post #410 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 01:16 PM
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The problem is my RS3000/NX9 is also defective and in more ways than one, and as such I really don't consider it appropriate to use it for such comparison purposes.

So unfortunately I will quite simply have to wait until I receive some decent replacement units from JVC. Wherein, the best I can do is to press JVC to replace the both of these ASAP...

And I know you are joking but my delivery guy is actually me, in that I did not want to risk the projector being shipped by courier so I personally went and collected it directly from JVC's UK distributor

I wonder what they do with these return projs Nigel?

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post #411 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 01:16 PM
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And I know you are joking but my delivery guy is actually me, in that I did not want to risk the projector being shipped by courier so I personally went and collected it directly from JVC's UK distributor

Well there's your problem! Everyone knows the JVC styrofoam packing materials cannot handle the bumps of the suspension of either your Lamborghini Huracan or Audi TTRS!
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post #412 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 01:18 PM
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Hey, at least it's an obvious defect! Better than something subtle.
And it is a lovely shade of violet!
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post #413 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 01:20 PM
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Maybe he drove too fast and the effect we're seeing is the Doppler effect?

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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #414 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 01:29 PM
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OH DEAR!!! It transpires that I have a defective JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 to complement my defective JVC RS3000/NX9! Arrrgghhhh!

There is a considerable undefeatable red push above black and the bottom portion of the image is bright purple and violet:

That looks like the same issue the guy in Austin, TX had with his NX7 in the Owners thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57540318
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57542304

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post #415 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
OH DEAR!!! It transpires that I have a defective JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 to complement my defective JVC RS3000/NX9! Arrrgghhhh!

There is a considerable undefeatable red push above black and the bottom portion of the image is bright purple and violet:

Oh oh, my unit is from the same batch....hope the US QC's better than UK. Sorry but one question I have is when Sony ships a new product launch do we see a similar DOA amount or do they have their act together more. You can get DOA's on anything and these things can get bounced around and are complex so just wondering about the competition.

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post #416 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 01:56 PM
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I hope the JVC people are reading the forum. With the long delay one would have expected that someone would have QC checked every unit in the first few batches.
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post #417 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 02:18 PM
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Looks like JVC some real QC or durability issues with these projectors. It is surprising that there are so many defective units out there. Before blaming delivery drivers, it is JVC's responsibility to design the product and packaging to stand up to normal shipping.
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post #418 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Yes indeed it is... and this not the only two units to be afflicted with this either...

Any chance you could continue to compare the sony projectors to one another until the JVC replacements come in. Would love to hear the comparisons between the 885es and the 995es, unless of course you have other things to tend to.
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post #419 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like JVC some real QC or durability issues with these projectors. It is surprising that there are so many defective units out there. Before blaming delivery drivers, it is JVC's responsibility to design the product and packaging to stand up to normal shipping.
Except my unit did not undergo normal shipping... Where in fact I went and collected it personally, and specifically did so out of concern that something might happen to it if/when shipped!

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post #420 of 2790 Old 02-07-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
OH DEAR!!! It transpires that I have a defective JVC RS2000/NX7/N7 to complement my defective JVC RS3000/NX9! Arrrgghhhh!

There is a considerable undefeatable red push above black and the bottom portion of the image is bright purple and violet:


Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
The problem is my RS3000/NX9 is also defective and in more ways than one, and as such I really don't consider it appropriate to use it for such comparison purposes.

So unfortunately I will quite simply have to wait until I receive some decent replacement units from JVC. Wherein, the best I can do is to press JVC to replace the both of these ASAP...

And I know you are joking but my delivery guy is actually me, in that I did not want to risk the projector being shipped by courier so I personally went and collected it directly from JVC's UK distributor

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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post
I hope the JVC people are reading the forum. With the long delay one would have expected that someone would have QC checked every unit in the first few batches.


Good points. I'm done with JVC.

But Nigel, seriously, thank you so much for all your efforts so far. You're taking the time away from your day to keep us all informed and help us with our decisions.
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