The 2019 model projectors comparison thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Purely for interest sake...

Z1/RS4500 vs NX9 with 8K E-Shift OFF/ON

MPC set to 0

What the still images of the NX9 DO NOT show is the excessive image noise with 8K E-Shift ON..

Just to clarify a point......

If you were to display the image from the NX9 ( with 8K E-Shift OFF) first, your response will be "WOW!" it looks very good

Its only when you switch to the image displayed from the Z1/RS4500 that you will then go.... OH !
Whilst I'm always cautious to draw any firm conclusions from photos like this, especially when the shot is so far back, when I zoom in the Z1 image looks noticeably sharper (It also appears to have greater dynamic range (better blacks whilst also appearing to be a slightly brighter image) - though that could be a gamma calibration difference I suppose). Do you have any pixel-peeping comparison photos close up against the screen Paul?

I'd love to understand the reason for all this, given everything we've been told about the NX9 vs the Z1 - marginally improved lens, improved newer generation panel etc etc - all suggests it should at least match the Z1 for image sharpness, but clearly all early reports suggest it doesn't.

I understand the argument that the Z1/RS4500 is twice the price of the NX9 so we should indeed expect the Z1 to perform better, but then we can't in the same breath state that the lens, chip and light path are the same or better - unless there is something else directly reducing image quality.

My personal theories are either:

a) the 8K e-shift element is having a detrimental effect on sharpness - we'll never know if this is the case unless someone is willing to open one up and take the e-shift element out to compare!

b) JVC have cut costs to hit the NX9 price point by including lower specification glass in the lens (whilst still using the same lens design as the Z1) - this is a reasonable possibility, as we all know that high quality glass optical elements are expensive, and as you come down the quality and specification ladder the prices come down also.
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post #32 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Whilst I'm always cautious to draw any firm conclusions from photos like this, especially when the shot is so far back, when I zoom in the Z1 image looks noticeably sharper (It also appears to have greater dynamic range (better blacks whilst also appearing to be a slightly brighter image) - though that could be a gamma calibration difference I suppose). Do you have any pixel-peeping comparison photos close up against the screen Paul?

I'd love to understand the reason for all this, given everything we've been told about the NX9 vs the Z1 - marginally improved lens, improved newer generation panel etc etc - all suggests it should at least match the Z1 for image sharpness, but clearly all early reports suggest it doesn't.

I understand the argument that the Z1/RS4500 is twice the price of the NX9 so we should indeed expect the Z1 to perform better, but then we can't in the same breath state that the lens, chip and light path are the same or better - unless there is something else directly reducing image quality.

My personal theories are either:

a) the 8K e-shift element is having a detrimental effect on sharpness - we'll never know if this is the case unless someone is willing to open one up and take the e-shift element out to compare!

b) JVC have cut costs to hit the NX9 price point by including lower specification glass in the lens (whilst still using the same lens design as the Z1) - this is a reasonable possibility, as we all know that high quality glass optical elements are expensive, and as you come down the quality and specification ladder the prices come down also.
You left out a one obvious possibility. Like the lens could be the same performance, but the processing is not 100% the same. I notice that you seem to always lean toward the conspiracy theory side.
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post #33 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 06:55 AM
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You left out a one obvious possibility. Like the lens could be the same performance, but the processing is not 100% the same. I notice that you seem to always lean toward the conspiracy theory side.
LOL maybe its just the old sceptic in me Mike! I'm not really a conspiracy theorist, no more I guess than I'm sure you're not simply a marketeer trying to defend products you have a commercial interest in

To be honest though I don't know why the suggestion of sensible business cost cutting on the lens could be considered a conspiracy theory, anymore than your suggestion that the difference in sharpness between the Z1 and the NX9 is entirely down to processing could be a conspiracy theory? As I pointed out I'm only keen to understand why there is a difference, and mainly for my own purchasing decisions.

So you are suggesting that if Woofer puts both projectors into low latency mode, to eliminate any hidden processing, the sharpness between the Z1 and the NX9 will be identical?
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post #34 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Whilst I'm always cautious to draw any firm conclusions from photos like this, especially when the shot is so far back, when I zoom in the Z1 image looks noticeably sharper (It also appears to have greater dynamic range (better blacks whilst also appearing to be a slightly brighter image) - though that could be a gamma calibration difference I suppose). Do you have any pixel-peeping comparison photos close up against the screen Paul?

I'd love to understand the reason for all this, given everything we've been told about the NX9 vs the Z1 - marginally improved lens, improved newer generation panel etc etc - all suggests it should at least match the Z1 for image sharpness, but clearly all early reports suggest it doesn't.

I understand the argument that the Z1/RS4500 is twice the price of the NX9 so we should indeed expect the Z1 to perform better, but then we can't in the same breath state that the lens, chip and light path are the same or better - unless there is something else directly reducing image quality.

My personal theories are either:

a) the 8K e-shift element is having a detrimental effect on sharpness - we'll never know if this is the case unless someone is willing to open one up and take the e-shift element out to compare!

b) JVC have cut costs to hit the NX9 price point by including lower specification glass in the lens (whilst still using the same lens design as the Z1) - this is a reasonable possibility, as we all know that high quality glass optical elements are expensive, and as you come down the quality and specification ladder the prices come down also.



C) etendue of laser vs lamp. ==> same lens has easier time with laser.

I posted this earlier in other thread. Video is 8 years old, but physics is physics

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post #35 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
LOL maybe its just the old sceptic in me Mike! I'm not really a conspiracy theorist, no more I guess than I'm sure you're not simply a marketeer trying to defend products you have a commercial interest in

To be honest though I don't know why the suggestion of sensible business cost cutting on the lens could be considered a conspiracy theory, anymore than your suggestion that the difference in sharpness between the Z1 and the NX9 is entirely down to processing could be a conspiracy theory? As I pointed out I'm only keen to understand why there is a difference, and mainly for my own purchasing decisions.

So you are suggesting that if Woofer puts both projectors into low latency mode, to eliminate any hidden processing, the sharpness between the Z1 and the NX9 will be identical?
Because JVC said it was the same lens with slight improvements. Also which would cost more? Make one lens and use on two lower volume high end models or make two different lens with the same size, grouping and number of elements, but set up and manufacturer a whole nother set of glass for the barrel? From a manufacturing standpoint, it does not make sense to make two different lens.

You still have processing. Low lag just makes the processing path shorter, it does not eliminate it.
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post #36 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 07:53 AM
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Because JVC said it was the same lens with slight improvements. Also which would cost more? Make one lens and use on two lower volume high end models or make two different lens with the same size, grouping and number of elements, but set up and manufacturer a whole nother set of glass for the barrel? From a manufacturing standpoint, it does not make sense to make two different lens.
You make a valid point though JVC also told us that ANSI had been improved over the e-shift range, and that 8K e-shift was a picture 'enhancement'. Also simply accepting a lower grade of lens element on one production run (the Z1) than another (the NX9), does not change the manufacturing process or lens design. Do we even know if the NX9 lenses are made in the same place (same physical production line) that the Z1 lenses are made?

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You still have processing. Low lag just makes the processing path shorter, it does not eliminate it.
Thats a good point, but have JVC not also said the processing was improved and based on the RS4500? If it was entirely down to processing, would they not simply port over the code from the RS4500?
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post #37 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by David Mathews View Post
C) etendue of laser vs lamp. ==> same lens has easier time with laser.

I posted this earlier in other thread. Video is 8 years old, but physics is physics
Yep, that's a good point. It could be entirely down to the laser.
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post #38 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
You make a valid point though JVC also told us that ANSI had been improved over the e-shift range, and that 8K e-shift was a picture 'enhancement'. Also simply accepting a lower grade of lens element on one production run (the Z1) than another (the NX9), does not change the manufacturing process or lens design.



Thats a good point, but have JVC not also said the processing was improved and based on the RS4500? If it was entirely down to processing, would they not simply port over the code from the RS4500?
I was told the processing on the 1000, 2000 and 3000 had been improved over the previous lamp based range. Not that it had been improved over the 4500. There was speculation that it could have been improved over the 4500, but not 100% expected.
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post #39 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Purely for interest sake...

Z1/RS4500 vs NX9 with 8K E-Shift OFF/ON

MPC set to 0

What the still images of the NX9 DO NOT show is the excessive image noise with 8K E-Shift ON..

Just to clarify a point......

If you were to display the image from the NX9 ( with 8K E-Shift OFF) first, your response will be "WOW!" it looks very good

Its only when you switch to the image displayed from the Z1/RS4500 that you will then go.... OH !
The eShift off image looks softer with some fine details for sure.

Comparing the NX9 and the Z1 is a bit trickier here. There is clearly quite a difference between the two, but it looks like there is quite the difference in calibration/tone mapping going on. The Z1 looks lighter overall, the NX9 looks darker. I've seen two projectors compared before where the differences in image depth and clarity were mainly caused by the tone map and when they were evened out the differences almost all went away. Obviously I don't know if that is actually the case here, but the differences in image brightness between objects on screen definitely gives me that impression.
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post #40 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
The eShift off image looks softer with some fine details for sure.

Comparing the NX9 and the Z1 is a bit trickier here. There is clearly quite a difference between the two, but it looks like there is quite the difference in calibration/tone mapping going on. The Z1 looks lighter overall, the NX9 looks darker. I've seen two projectors compared before where the differences in image depth and clarity were mainly caused by the tone map and when they were evened out the differences almost all went away. Obviously I don't know if that is actually the case here, but the differences in image brightness between objects on screen definitely gives me that impression.
I also get this feeling that some edge enhancement or unsharp mask is going on. Ideally we would have a png of the source image to look at on a computer display to see what we are dealing with for real.

Any test patterns comparing the two?
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post #41 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 12:07 PM
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I also get this feeling that some edge enhancement or unsharp mask is going on. Ideally we would have a png of the source image to look at on a computer display to see what we are dealing with for real.

Any test patterns comparing the two?
I have have got a myriad of images comparing the Z1 and NX9...image stills, test patterns....they ALL show 'ME" the same result...and over 100+ hours of viewing the NX9.

But , i imagine i can post examples of these "Till the cows come home" and people will still be looking for the results THEY want....fair enough.

I think the best thing is to wait for Nigel to post some feedback and comparisons...after all he is a respected Reviewer here , and i basically know "Jack Sh*t"
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post #42 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 12:13 PM
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I have have got a myriad of images comparing the Z1 and NX9...image stills, test patterns....they ALL show 'ME" the same result...and over 100+ hours of viewing the NX9.

But , i imagine i can post examples of these "Till the cows come home" and people will still be looking for the results THEY want....fair enough.

I think the best thing is to wait for Nigel to post some feedback and comparisons...after all he is a respected Reviewer here , and i basically know "Jack Sh*t"
I'm not looking for any results in particular, just trying to tease apart what the differences are and why. But this is probably futile and all that matters is an in person viewing.
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post #43 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 12:33 PM
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I have have got a myriad of images comparing the Z1 and NX9...image stills, test patterns....they ALL show 'ME" the same result...and over 100+ hours of viewing the NX9.

But , i imagine i can post examples of these "Till the cows come home" and people will still be looking for the results THEY want....fair enough.

I think the best thing is to wait for Nigel to post some feedback and comparisons...after all he is a respected Reviewer here , and i basically know "Jack Sh*t"

So a few thoughts:
1) Keep posting... It's great to hear (err read) from actual people who own these projectors. Given that we have like 80+pages of "NX7/9 owners" thread, it seems like 99 percent of it is not from owners... I get that the non-owners such as me want to know more, but the threads quickly spiral out of control.. talking about speaker setups and such... most of it is still anticipation thread material... so seriously this is what i want to read/see.


2) While I would definitely be happy if the RS3000 was as good or better than the RS4500, one thing I know is: If I owned an RS4500 (considering it's MSRP is like 35K (USD) versus the 3000 which has an 18K (USD)), I would be upset if one year later, JVC produced a projector that was better at everything for half the price, but with the laser missing. So i think you're safe here because the 4500 seems to be better.



3) I would like to see more comparisons of some closeup images. There was a pic someone posted from a UHZ65 (faux-k) from one of the Avengers movies (which i believe is a 2k upscale) that looked incredible as far as detail/sharpness/etc... I get that cameras can make everything look like an OLED in terms of blacks, but distance shots as well as close-ups are good tests...


(updated: here is the link (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57451324 )


4) Do you also own an OLED tv? If so how would you compare the image quality you get. I know that a bigger size typically trumps the smaller tvs, but as far as pure image quality goes, in both sharpness and contrast for both low and especially in high ADL scenes (i can point you to some) it looks amazing.
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post #44 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post
I also get this feeling that some edge enhancement or unsharp mask is going on. Ideally we would have a png of the source image to look at on a computer display to see what we are dealing with for real.

Any test patterns comparing the two?
I have have got a myriad of images comparing the Z1 and NX9...image stills, test patterns....they ALL show 'ME" the same result...and over 100+ hours of viewing the NX9.

But , i imagine i can post examples of these "Till the cows come home" and people will still be looking for the results THEY want....fair enough.

I think the best thing is to wait for Nigel to post some feedback and comparisons...after all he is a respected Reviewer here , and i basically know "Jack Sh*t" [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif[/IMG]
Ah!! Certainly didn’t mean for you to take my comments on offense! I hate screen shot comparisons in general, which is why I never post them.
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post #45 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Purely for interest sake...

Z1/RS4500 vs NX9 with 8K E-Shift OFF/ON

MPC set to 0

What the still images of the NX9 DO NOT show is the excessive image noise with 8K E-Shift ON..

Just to clarify a point......

If you were to display the image from the NX9 ( with 8K E-Shift OFF) first, your response will be "WOW!" it looks very good

Its only when you switch to the image displayed from the Z1/RS4500 that you will then go.... OH !
The Z1 image looks a fair bit brighter than the NX9 but that is what the extra lumens get you I suppose.

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post #46 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 12:51 PM
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Yep, that's a good point. It could be entirely down to the laser.
That is entirely feasible and the reason I would find it hard to go back to a lamp based device...

Laser provides a level of image stability that cannot be overstated when it comes to how pleasing the actual image on screen is.

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post #47 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 12:52 PM
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Ah!! Certainly didn’t mean for you to take my comments on offense! I hate screen shot comparisons in general, which is why I never post them.
Kris,

My comments were definitely NOT aimed at yourself...

But basically i see that on these forums that unless you are a "Respected" reviewer such as Yourself or Nigel ect... people are always looking to interpret/twist an observation from someone towards the result that they want it to be.

Totally agree on the screen shot comparisons......just "trying" to convey what transpires ON THE SCREEN at my end..
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post #48 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 01:12 PM
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As far as E-shift goes, here is a pretty good article from a few years ago.
https://www.redsharknews.com/technol...pixel-shifting

From the article:

"The most pressing question for consumers is, “does it actually look better?” On the whole, yes. Images projected using the 4K upscaling and e-shift2 optical output have the appearance of having higher resolution, and feature smoother diagonals. What’s more, there is hardly any pixel grid visible on the image as a result of the system.

With that in mind, you might be surprised to read that turning on the e-shift system causes the actual resolution, as seen with single-pixel line pairs in resolution test patterns, to drop. Black and white alternating line pairs, used to assess resolution, appear more defined when the projector is operating in its “original” 1080p mode. And yet, with actual content, we still preferred to have the e-shift system enabled. We wondered if the black and white line pairs could cause temporal crosstalk between Sub-frame A and Sub-frame B. Remember, in a resolution test pattern, the lines are packed directly beside each other, and to display this with e-shift, some of the pixels on the imager may be put in a position where they must rapidly switch between white and black. Therefore, we might be seeing lessened resolution with these patterns due to the extreme changes we’re asking the LCOS chips to make. (The idea that static resolution can be impacted by the panels’ motion resolution is a concept that still bends our minds). Real movie content is not so synthetic and challenging as this, which would explain why we had no complaints during actual usage: for example, asking the LCOS chips to change from one extreme of the dynamic range to another (white to black) is a harder task than asking them to draw, for example, similarly coloured pixels in an actors’ face."

But with this being a native 4K projector, you have the choice to turn E-shift off if you want. As I said, I will compare both ways and then decide.
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post #49 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 02:35 PM
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Kris,

My comments were definitely NOT aimed at yourself...

But basically i see that on these forums that unless you are a "Respected" reviewer such as Yourself or Nigel ect... people are always looking to interpret/twist an observation from someone towards the result that they want it to be.
You are reading way too much into what I posted.
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post #50 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
I have have got a myriad of images comparing the Z1 and NX9...image stills, test patterns....they ALL show 'ME" the same result...and over 100+ hours of viewing the NX9.

But , i imagine i can post examples of these "Till the cows come home" and people will still be looking for the results THEY want....fair enough.

I think the best thing is to wait for Nigel to post some feedback and comparisons...after all he is a respected Reviewer here , and i basically know "Jack Sh*t"
Woofer if you don't know "Jack...." then I'm in deep, deep ****. I respect your opinion. So please share it. Whether here or PM. I'm concerned that the NX9 eshift hardware might be affecting the performance even when it is turned off. The only way to test this is to compare the images to the 4500 and NX7. Arrow hasn't been able to do this yet. But I hope folks who know something to share it. Other folks will chime in and give their opinions that I'm looking for. As they say if you "see something, say something.
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post #51 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 05:35 PM
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Also simply accepting a lower grade of lens element on one production run (the Z1) than another (the NX9), does not change the manufacturing process or lens design.
Remember the whole "hand-selected and hand-tested components" claim of the previous RS6xx series? If you believed that as true, then I don't see why a similar thing couldn't be happening here. The RS3000/NX9 could just be getting the lenses rejected from the RS4500/Z1 if there are not enough top performing lenses to satisfy both product demand. If they manage to produce more top-tier lenses than required for the small RS4500/Z1 production, then at least some of the NX9/RS3000 units should perform similar. We'll know what's up when Arrow tests a larger number of units. Cine4Home is also probably going to do a series evaluation so we can see where most units lie.
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post #52 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 05:57 PM
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Woofer if you don't know "Jack...." then I'm in deep, deep ****. I respect your opinion. So please share it. Whether here or PM. I'm concerned that the NX9 eshift hardware might be affecting the performance even when it is turned off. The only way to test this is to compare the images to the 4500 and NX7. Arrow hasn't been able to do this yet. But I hope folks who know something to share it. Other folks will chime in and give their opinions that I'm looking for. As they say if you "see something, say something.
I don't think you can ever know if the eshift mechanism is affecting the image even when switched off. The only way to tell would be to go inside the NX9/RS3000 and remove the eshift hardware and compare it to one with eshift.

You can't compare an RS4500 and an RS3000 and then make the claim that the differences are due to eshift. There are way too many differences between the two projectors. Completely different light engine, completely different light source, completely different firmware, completely different luminance levels, completely different tone maps, etc.

I think all this worry about eshift is bunk. Eshift has been on projectors for several years. JVC has studied it in depth, modified it, played with it, experimented with it. I don't think they would have put it on the RS3000 if they knew it was possibly degrading the image. That would make no sense.
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post #53 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I don't think you can ever know if the eshift mechanism is affecting the image even when switched off. The only way to tell would be to go inside the NX9/RS3000 and remove the eshift hardware and compare it to one with eshift.

You can't compare an RS4500 and an RS3000 and then make the claim that the differences are due to eshift. There are way too many differences between the two projectors. Completely different light engine, completely different light source, completely different firmware, completely different luminance levels, completely different tone maps, etc.

I think all this worry about eshift is bunk. Eshift has been on projectors for several years. JVC has studied it in depth, modified it, played with it, experimented with it. I don't think they would have put it on the RS3000 if they knew it was possibly degrading the image. That would make no sense.
You know, you might be right. But I suspect a lot of that can be optimized or calibrated to isolate lens performance. But I certainly don't know if these tests or comparisons can be made. I'll ask the question and then the experts tell me what is or isn't feasible. I just wish JVC gave out production units to reviewers earlier so they could be tested. Doing this to give us pre-order folks some comfort in our decisions. I'm not sure I want to be the guinea pig without having the experience or testing equipment to conduct tests and performance.
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post #54 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 11:26 PM
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Just for fun...

Yep, more screen shots...

This time X9900 vs NX9 ( E-Shift OFF)
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post #55 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 11:42 PM
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Great post, are these black floors as close as the pics show or crushed/averaged by the camera? If on a tripod can you bump the exposure a click of two ? But if you say the full field black is indiscernable, than so be it. While this is up maybe try some low APL scenes?
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post #56 of 2790 Old 01-21-2019, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
How was the 1 pixel measurement taken? Since the laser shuts off on full on / off, you get infinite. Id find a more useful measurement to be full white screen to full black screen but with 1 white pixel in a corner or somewhere. That will show the max laser dimming. Is this what the 1 pixel test is?

Edit: nevermind I see you answered this above. So 18K:1 full dynamic contrast feels pretty sucky to me
I think to use a single white pixel in a corner to measure max laser dimming is not really such a clever idea. The better way to do that is to use dark grey pixel(s).

Be aware: If you use a white pixel - like people here are doing - you just manage that the laser is not shut off but this way you are not to achieve maximal dimming. When you create this situaion with a single white pixel you want the black to be as dark as possible (by reducing the laser outut and by closing an iris if one is present) but you also want that the white pixel is still as bright as possible (by increasing the laser output and opening the iris). So it matters a lot what kind of pixel you are using and also how the dimming is programmed to overcome this obvious dilemma. Therefore you are most likely not to obtain correct data for dynamic laser dimming with white pixels. Furthermore any data obtained with different brands (and different dimming programming installed) will also end up in an apple to pear comparison. To develop a really good method that reflects our viweing impressions is IMHO not so simple as it first seems.
P.S. btw this explains why C4H got different data for dynamic laser dimming than Arrow-AV ;-).
And it may also explains why the RS4500 users seem to be quite happy despite its relatively low ANSI and native contrast figures.

Last edited by *Mori*; 01-21-2019 at 11:54 PM.
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post #57 of 2790 Old 01-22-2019, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Just for fun...

Yep, more screen shots...

This time X9900 vs NX9 ( E-Shift OFF)

Thanks thats is nice photos... i realy dont know what to say about thats new generation JVC. I wonder if I should wait for somethink bether and get RS540/x7900 or wait if JVC will make some software improvement on N7/N5.
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post #58 of 2790 Old 01-22-2019, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by riddle View Post
Thanks thats is nice photos... i realy dont know what to say about thats new generation JVC. I wonder if I should wait for somethink bether and get RS540/x7900 or wait if JVC will make some software improvement on N7/N5.
ZOOM in on the pics on a good monitor

The X9900 is a very good projector BUT it cannot match the NX9 for detail ... On my 143" Scope screen, the NX9 ( E Shift OFF) is quite noticeably better than the X9900
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post #59 of 2790 Old 01-22-2019, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
ZOOM in on the pics on a good monitor

The X9900 is a very good projector BUT it cannot match the NX9 for detail ... On my 143" Scope screen, the NX9 ( E Shift OFF) is quite noticeably better than the X9900

So you think new gen for me N7 is worth to wait and dont go to older gen?
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post #60 of 2790 Old 01-22-2019, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by riddle View Post
So you think new gen for me N7 is worth to wait and dont go to older gen?
I certainly can not advise you of that , as i have not seen the N7 .

I hope to get an N7 to compare, but here in Aus it will be some time down the track.
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