The 2019 model projectors comparison thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
My 295ES has 80 hours already and no blue panel degradation. My VW40 and HW40ES showed some blue panel degradation after 200 hours, though.

I know people with 285s and 385s with more than 1500 hours operation and none of them have reported blue panel degradation.
That's good. Knock on wood - hopefully you never have that problem.
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post #182 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
That's good. Knock on wood - hopefully you never have that problem.
Most likely not because I'm planing to get a JVC or a new Sony by next year I think this year at IFA/CEDIA Sony is bringing some new good stuff to the projector world and JVC will have all issues sorted out with the new series. Next year is going to be a very interesting year in the projector world.

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post #183 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 02:01 PM
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Please report back on the RS 3000. I am in the same boat looking at the RS3000 coming from a Sony VW 1100. My unit however is looking better than ever so I wouldn't be moving from a degraded unit, just toward something newer. It is really a shame to hear the degradation stories because it seems like a panel lottery situation. I have always heard unfortunately once your brightness is crippled and the color/gamma droops then the optical block/panel is done. My unit has close to 2000 hrs total, but I always have run high cooling/low lamp and swap lamps every 600-700 hrs.



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Originally Posted by Василий Пупкинг View Post
I'm also have previously owned both Sony and JVC projectors, now I'm having Sony VW1100 and I ordered JVC RS3000 to replace it.
So, I never will be back to Sony because of their very dissapointing issue - so called SXRD degradation.
Sony VW1100 had a great picture quality out of the box, but few hundred lamp hours later contrast and colors start very noticealbe fading away, and after 1500 hours It become impossible to color calibrate the unit and I measured about 1500:1 native on/off contrast. Out of the box it was about 15000:1 native on/off with the same screen and enviroment.
As far is I know - Sony never admitted this issue, but I they replaced optical block of my unit twice(!), and now when It's out of warranty with the third optical block issue are the same.
Because of that looks like this problem affects most of the SXRD units, it's never been totally elliminated for the old projectors series, and there is no confidence that this degradation doesn't affect new models.

So, I think make sense to do second test after 1000-1500 lamp hours on both Sony and JVC units, maybe difference will be much bigger, specially in contrast.
Until the test like this - I'm not risking to purchase Sony projector and do not advise on anyone iether.
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post #184 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Most likely not because I'm planing to get a JVC or a new Sony by next year I think this year at IFA/CEDIA Sony is bringing some new good stuff to the projector world and JVC will have all issues sorted out with the new series. Next year is going to be a very interesting year in the projector world.
Everybody says that - every year that I can remember starting in 2002. Sometimes it is new and exciting, sometimes - not so much. I'll just be over here watching my RS4500 in the mean time.
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post #185 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
Please report back on the RS 3000. I am in the same boat looking at the RS3000 coming from a Sony VW 1100. My unit however is looking better than ever so I wouldn't be moving from a degraded unit, just toward something newer. It is really a shame to hear the degradation stories because it seems like a panel lottery situation. I have always heard unfortunately once your brightness is crippled and the color/gamma droops then the optical block/panel is done. My unit has close to 2000 hrs total, but I always have run high cooling/low lamp and swap lamps every 600-700 hrs.
Lottery ... all brands seem to offer some form of lottery. I too had a sony sxrd which never exhibited panel degrdation in my almost 7000 hours and 7+ years of ownership.

I also never experienced 60-90 minutes of warm up to achieve stable focus or convergence like some rs4500 (and maybe nx9 rs3000) owners report.

If we were to list all of the lottery items associated with manufacturer brands and specific models, it is pretty sad commentary on what manufactures are willing to deliver as a final product AND on what customers are willing to accept.
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post #186 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Everybody says that - every year that I can remember starting in 2002. Sometimes it is new and exciting, sometimes - not so much. I'll just be over here watching my RS4500 in the mean time.
As the the master 4500 acolyte on avs...

On average, how many 4500s does it take for someone to get a decent unit?

Or maybe the correct question is how many bad 4500s keep finding their way back into customer home theaters?

The 4500 does not seem like the happily ever after scenario you constantly evangelize.
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post #187 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
Please report back on the RS 3000. I am in the same boat looking at the RS3000 coming from a Sony VW 1100. My unit however is looking better than ever so I wouldn't be moving from a degraded unit, just toward something newer. It is really a shame to hear the degradation stories because it seems like a panel lottery situation. I have always heard unfortunately once your brightness is crippled and the color/gamma droops then the optical block/panel is done. My unit has close to 2000 hrs total, but I always have run high cooling/low lamp and swap lamps every 600-700 hrs.
RS3000 should arrive at about 2-3 weeks, I'll report back my impressions.

Did you calibrate your unit and how long ago?
Because degradation is relatively slow process - you may used to picture quality and didn't really notice the problem, until you compare PQ to the same new device without degradation or try to calibrate, like I did when encountered the issue for the first time.
In that case, besides dropped contrast and gamma I had very noticable color issue - red color was pumped up at black levels so black looks like dark brown, with no chance to correct this with calibration.
With replaced optical blocks I've experienced only contrast and gamma drop, that may not be wery noticable if you have some ambient light, not prepared environment like white ceiling and walls, etc.

Maybe its make sense for you to measure at least native on/off contrast (DI disabled) to make sure that your unit not degraded at all, otherwise you will get one more good reason for upgrade)
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post #188 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
As the the master 4500 acolyte on avs...



On average, how many 4500s does it take for someone to get a decent unit?



Or maybe the correct question is how many bad 4500s keep finding their way back into customer home theaters?



The 4500 does not seem like the happily ever after scenario you constantly evangelize.
Dude I can't help but notice a large tonal shift in your posts in the last few months to simply that of a detractor. There is no other way to frame it.

There is a large bitter aftertaste in your posts now. Sorry to see.

Why don't you ask the same question to 5000es owners...

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post #189 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I will say, if I had a VW695, I would not be replacing it with an NX7. Not enough difference to justify making that move. Both are really good projectors.
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If I had a 695 I would probably not replace it at this time with the N7, too similar. Contrast in only a few scenarios will be just about the only difference.
Thank you for the advices. I will continue to keep an eye on the situation
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post #190 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
As the the master 4500 acolyte on avs...

On average, how many 4500s does it take for someone to get a decent unit?

Or maybe the correct question is how many bad 4500s keep finding their way back into customer home theaters?

The 4500 does not seem like the happily ever after scenario you constantly evangelize.
Everyone that has gotten a unit they weren't happy with had them replaced by JVC as far as I know. Stuff happens in shipping. I don't know anyone that got stuck with a unit they didn't like. Mine has been stellar for almost 2 years now.
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post #191 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
As the the master 4500 acolyte on avs...

On average, how many 4500s does it take for someone to get a decent unit?

Or maybe the correct question is how many bad 4500s keep finding their way back into customer home theaters?

The 4500 does not seem like the happily ever after scenario you constantly evangelize.
The Z1/RS4500 IS a "Happy ever after scenario" for me....... and unlike yourself i am commenting on actually having experience with not only the Z1/RS4500 but many other projectors.

You are now constantly portraying your bias and constantly trying to justify your ownership of the X9900 .

I still have a good sample (hard to get) of the X9900 ....... is it the "pinnacle" of projection that you are are pushing???? NO its not , not by a long shot.

If you want to look at the probability of getting a BAD unit.....then yep, the X9900 is the way to go....
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post #192 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Dude I can't help but notice a large tonal shift in your posts in the last few months to simply that of a detractor. There is no other way to frame it.

There is a large bitter aftertaste in your posts now. Sorry to see.

Why don't you ask the same question to 5000es owners...
Hey javs...

If someone looks in the mirror and they don't like what they see, is it the fault of the mirror ?

Was anything I questioned in the post you referenced inaccurate? Uncomfortable? Sure, but inaccurate?

Perhaps my tonal shift is a response to the almost constant barage of self serving BS from a few members with financial motivations.
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post #193 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 03:31 PM
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Hey javs...

If someone looks in the mirror and they don't like what they see, is it the fault of the mirror ?

Was anything I questioned in the post you referenced inaccurate? Uncomfortable? Sure, but inaccurate?

Perhaps my tonal shift is a response to the almost constant barage of self serving BS from a few members with financial motivations.
What with the cryptic reply?

Your most recent post is what prompted my post, but I can tell you I have been reading your stuff in the past month or two, and I gotta be honest, you are coming off insanely bitter these days. Simple as that.

Something must have happened which soured your thoughts on the JVC brand, and it was not their products I can pretty confidently say that. Shame really, since when you start having political issues with a brand not based on the actual products but instead based on other things, then you are no longer impartial, that is called a detractor.

Sure the 4500 had a rocky start, but its no doubt an amazing machine. How about the 5000ES? A Ton of those were bricked, defective, you name it. Pretty sure even Joe has exchanged his, but its interesting how they keep it all a secret and make light of others who have been down a similar path just because of what name is on the box. You will find JVC owners talk about issues, even you have had issues. We talk about them to find resolutions, nothing wrong with that, shouldn't matter which brand it is.

I could also show you screen-shots of the lenses Sony used to pass off as acceptable. I've read your posts about your 9900 issues and journey, you know mine. What if I told you that Sony would laugh in your face if we attempted to claim issue with the level of scrutiny we put those JVC's through? I returned my units because I KNEW JVC could do better, But Sony wouldn't have a bar of it, they had already set the bar low back in the day. Man you should see the lenses they used to ship!

What if your current projector passed this off as a lens, let alone something worth north of $15,000USD? These are all '4K Sony's'. I will say I am glad it seems they have made progress here and fixed this.





No brand is perfect, lets get that straight. I dont think its fair to poke fun at how many 'replacements' have been issued and customers who actually ended up with A+ working samples at the end of it, Sony absolutely included here. Better than a brand telling a customer tough titties is it not? My JVC experience was a nightmare spanning nearly 4 months to fully 'resolve', at least you ended up with a decent sample at the end of your 'Advanced Replacement' journey, I was literally told tough ***** if I dont like what I have, I dont even have a 9900 now at all. I think the 9900 was a dud model. But my experience here is actually with JVC Australia, and I dont hold that against the company as a whole. In fact, I can narrow my experience down to one person.
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post #194 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
What with the cryptic reply?

Your most recent post is what prompted my post, but I can tell you I have been reading your stuff in the past month or two, and I gotta be honest, you are coming off insanely bitter these days. Simple as that.

Spoiler!


But my experience here is actually with JVC Australia, and I dont hold that against the company as a whole. In fact, I can narrow my experience down to one person.
Thanks for your post. If i reflect honestly, maybe my i can narrow my experience down to a few contributors and one senior jvc figure.

I'll take a time out and mute a couple of avs members, and i'll try to get back to my old self.
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post #195 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 03:49 PM
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Only negative (not by me) I see brought up about the Sony was the degrading contrast and the guy you quoted said he experienced that with his earlier Sony projector. The rest of the questions were just trying to clarify if they were compared apples to apples. That is why he was asked about the dynamic iris on the JVC. Poster clarified dynamic iris was on. But poster did confirm that the JVC was in low lamp and the Sony was in high lamp. So not really an apples to apple comparison. Would have been nice if compared with both on high, along with what was done. I will say, if I had a VW695, I would not be replacing it with an NX7. Not enough difference to justify making that move. Both are really good projectors.

As you know, I had been a long time JVC owner but now have the Sony 695ES. It's my first Sony and I purchased while JVC had a delay shipping the NX9's. I was a bit hesitant because of some anecdotes from some about panel degradation in some of the older Sony models. But after reading posts from owners of the more recent models 285, 385, 675, 885, etc., I mustered enough confidence to go ahead. I'm glad I did.

Native contrast measured 19,000:1, so dynamic will be about 3X that. ANSI contrast in a controlled room measured 420:1. Motion is so clear/ cadence on point/no SOE with true cinema. Sharpness and processing are outstanding. The 695 has the 18Gbp HDMIs now and has the X1 processor, the X1/X1Extreme...don't recall the exact iteration, but I know it's not the one Sony just placed in its highest end TV, the X1 Ultimate.

I know everybody says they can't see the difference with ANSI contrast (well except for when there was a brief euphoria about the JVCs that they would have about 50% increase, which didn't happen it seems), but I see good ANSI when it's there. Take a scene from this movie Valarian where this fellow General Actibar (ph spelling), on the e-shift JVC his face looks muted and washed out on most of the indoor scenes with bright behind him; but on the 695 his and all faces show clear and distinct features like all the other stuff.

I also don't have to constantly mess with gamma on the Sony like the eshift JVCs I had all suffered from severe gamma droop, whether that can be considered a type of panel degradation for the JVCs or if the new ones will still have it, I don't know.

But because of the outstanding motion and overall general contrast of this Sony, I would definitely not change to an NX7 based on the specs. I'm still considering the NX9 only because of its lens and still on the fence because I would be shocked if the JVC's motion and intra-scene contrast can match the Sony's believe it or not. In all, that's why I want to demo the NX9 first.
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post #196 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 04:01 PM
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Just a thought...

I really think for sometime now that the majority of projectors have got to the point of "ALL" displaying stunning images .....its just over time we all have got that much better at "Nit Picking"
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post #197 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 04:02 PM
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Thanks for your post. If i reflect honestly, maybe my i can narrow my experience down to a few contributors and one senior jvc figure.

I'll take a time out and mute a couple of avs members, and i'll try to get back to my old self.
I generally value your input, you have made some truly great posts and contributions in the past, maybe that's why I commented, I would certainly prefer to read that level of content from you rather than the other...

All good here.

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post #198 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 04:10 PM
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I generally value your input, you have made some truly great posts and contributions in the past, maybe that's why I commented, I would certainly prefer to read that level of content from you rather than the other...

All good here.

I have a lot of respect for Byte's contributions too, as I do yours. I'll never forget how you both helped us all with settings and pointers in the X900 thread.

So...anyway, when I looked at some of his posts, I just thought he wanted to separate sales from science.
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post #199 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 04:13 PM
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Aztar35- I'm trying to make the decision myself between the JVC NX7/Sony (570ES) 695ES or just stepping up to the 760ES since Woofer's friend and Woofer himself seem happy with what the 760ES brings to the table or just getting the aforementioned 570ES and see what pans out next year if a laser trickles down in either the JVC or Sony ranges to mid level tiers.

I saw a Sony 295ES recently and although the 4K image from a 4K Blu-Ray looked fantastic, I then saw a 1080p Blu-Ray movie of Top Gun played through an Oppo into the projector and throughout scenes in the movie it looked like the grain in the movie manifested itself as digital noise. Don't know if it was a setting in the player, projector or the movie itself, or maybe my old DLP is better at hiding this.
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post #200 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 04:15 PM
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I can narrow my experience down to one person.
Name names!

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post #201 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 04:19 PM
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I then saw a 1080p Blu-Ray movie of Top Gun played through an Oppo into the projector and throughout scenes in the movie it looked like the grain in the movie manifested itself as digital noise. .
IF Reality Creation is "Cranked" it will do exactly this...

If used in moderation ( RC ) the image from the 760ES is "Clean" and "Sharp"
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post #202 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 04:57 PM
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Aztar35- I'm trying to make the decision myself between the JVC NX7/Sony (570ES) 695ES or just stepping up to the 760ES since Woofer's friend and Woofer himself seem happy with what the 760ES brings to the table or just getting the aforementioned 570ES and see what pans out next year if a laser trickles down in either the JVC or Sony ranges to mid level tiers.

I saw a Sony 295ES recently and although the 4K image from a 4K Blu-Ray looked fantastic, I then saw a 1080p Blu-Ray movie of Top Gun played through an Oppo into the projector and throughout scenes in the movie it looked like the grain in the movie manifested itself as digital noise. Don't know if it was a setting in the player, projector or the movie itself, or maybe my old DLP is better at hiding this.
The beautiful thing about the Sony is that it has a naturally calm and clean picture and the laser iterations more so.

As Woofer so precisely pointed out, keep RC down. Also, if other processing is run on high, like zone or shift alignment, then it can materialize as noise. So, RC down...and for me I did something on mine...I went into the special menu and bypassed the preset zone alignment...what a clear picture now. Maybe talk to a pro about it first as going into that service menu and messing around the wrong way could brick your machine.
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post #203 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 05:01 PM
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Aztar35- I'm trying to make the decision myself between the JVC NX7/Sony (570ES) 695ES or just stepping up to the 760ES since Woofer's friend and Woofer himself seem happy with what the 760ES brings to the table or just getting the aforementioned 570ES and see what pans out next year if a laser trickles down in either the JVC or Sony ranges to mid level tiers.

I saw a Sony 295ES recently and although the 4K image from a 4K Blu-Ray looked fantastic, I then saw a 1080p Blu-Ray movie of Top Gun played through an Oppo into the projector and throughout scenes in the movie it looked like the grain in the movie manifested itself as digital noise. Don't know if it was a setting in the player, projector or the movie itself, or maybe my old DLP is better at hiding this.
If they had the 295ES with factory presets, let's say CinemaFilm 2, for SDR content RC value is 40 while for HDR is 20. That extra 20 on RC can introduce some digital noise. Also, some HD Blue Ray movies have a lot of grain. My 295ES looks spectacular with any source, including Xfinity DVR. I have ZERO noise problems. Motion and up scaling on the 295/695 is just outstanding. Also know that turning OFF item 21 on the service menu will make the picture even better, I would say 3 times better and I'm pretty sure the 295ES you demoed had item 21 ON.

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post #204 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I have a lot of respect for Byte's contributions too, as I do yours. I'll never forget how you both helped us all with settings and pointers in the X900 thread.

So...anyway, when I looked at some of his posts, I just thought he wanted to separate sales from science.
When I post I do so as a home theater enthusiast who has been building his own home theaters since 2002. Fact of the matter is Sony projectors have a higher markup and pay a bigger spiff to salespeople. And most all home theater projector resellers carry Sony, JVC, Epson, BenQ, Optoma and maybe SIM2 and Digital Projection. So the idea that someone would push JVC over Sony because they could make more money is funny, since the opposite is true. But at the end of the day it's just about tradeoffs and choices. Nothing more.
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post #205 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 05:14 PM
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Thanks I look forward to your observations. I usually measure the the native on the Sony every 3-6 months or so once all the degradation news came out. So far any degradation has been light. Over the last 2 years I have used the projector a bit more to keep the panel fitness up so to say. Last measure I was at 12-15k:1 native and 40-45k: 1 dynamic on 1% pattern. Below 1% apl, the iris works pretty aggressive on this sony model so I am in the 350-400k :1 at 0 ire . I use my OLED as a benchmark and so far so good. I have been using the interstellar 53:30 scene as reference for measure. If your native contrast is low that scene is tough to render well. I am looking for about 300-400 extra lumens with the RS3000 and a nice native bump on low apl material. Otherwise I am a happy camper.





*Hopefully I am not in for a shock as I am thinking about using the image director software to do some gamma tweaks on 2.4 and 2.6 settings for HDR and SDR.




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RS3000 should arrive at about 2-3 weeks, I'll report back my impressions.

Did you calibrate your unit and how long ago?
Because degradation is relatively slow process - you may used to picture quality and didn't really notice the problem, until you compare PQ to the same new device without degradation or try to calibrate, like I did when encountered the issue for the first time.
In that case, besides dropped contrast and gamma I had very noticable color issue - red color was pumped up at black levels so black looks like dark brown, with no chance to correct this with calibration.
With replaced optical blocks I've experienced only contrast and gamma drop, that may not be wery noticable if you have some ambient light, not prepared environment like white ceiling and walls, etc.

Maybe its make sense for you to measure at least native on/off contrast (DI disabled) to make sure that your unit not degraded at all, otherwise you will get one more good reason for upgrade)

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post #206 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 06:04 PM
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Fact of the matter is Sony projectors have a higher markup and pay a bigger spiff to salespeople. And most all home theater projector resellers carry Sony, JVC, Epson, BenQ, Optoma and maybe SIM2 and Digital Projection. So the idea that someone would push JVC over Sony because they could make more money is funny, since the opposite is true.
Interesting. A couple of months ago, I visited a local dealer who carries bothy JVC and Sony, and he really kept pushing the Sony, even to the point of taking me in the back to show me some used JVC projectors that people had supposedly returned in order to swap them out for a Sony. He had a Sony 695 on display, which I thought really did not look very good -- but I'm confident the fault was how he had it set up, and not the projector itself.

Anyway, I always thought it odd that he was pushing the Sony's so hard, to the point that he would say things li,e "I'll get you one of the new JVC's if you really want, but we think the Sony [and we were talking about the 295 or the 695] is much better."

I visited that dealer once and have never been back.
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post #207 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 06:31 PM
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Interesting. A couple of months ago, I visited a local dealer who carries bothy JVC and Sony, and he really kept pushing the Sony, even to the point of taking me in the back to show me some used JVC projectors that people had supposedly returned in order to swap them out for a Sony. He had a Sony 695 on display, which I thought really did not look very good -- but I'm confident the fault was how he had it set up, and not the projector itself.

Anyway, I always thought it odd that he was pushing the Sony's so hard, to the point that he would say things li,e "I'll get you one of the new JVC's if you really want, but we think the Sony [and we were talking about the 295 or the 695] is much better."

I visited that dealer once and have never been back.
You described that type of dealer/person to a tee. The worst.

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post #208 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 07:50 PM
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Another great Space shot to test dynamic contrast. This one goes deep and actually ends up beating Interstellar.

Once again, at Gamma 2.2... Most of us watch 2.4 so it will be a little less ADL if that's the case.

First Man.

1:48:04

0.086% ADL



Its moving away from camera, so as it gets further...


1:48:10

0.0039% ADL!



My 3000 does not look as black on this scene. In fact, this is one of the scenes that got me thinking something must be off with gamma and or iris.


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post #209 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 08:25 PM
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My 3000 does not look as black on this scene. In fact, this is one of the scenes that got me thinking something must be off with gamma and or iris.
Are you using the BD or the UHD? The UHD has a raised black floor vs the BD version. if you find the projector isn't clamping down the iris in that scene on the BD version, try going to the Gamma settings -> Dark Level and bring it down a few clicks and see if that helps.
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post #210 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:15 PM
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Are you using the BD or the UHD? The UHD has a raised black floor vs the BD version. if you find the projector isn't clamping down the iris in that scene on the BD version, try going to the Gamma settings -> Dark Level and bring it down a few clicks and see if that helps.


Of first man? I’m talking about first man. Does the uhd also have a raised black floor like the interstellar uhd?


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