The 2019 model projectors comparison thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Mike have you seen the N7 yet?
Not yet, Just the RS1000/N5 and RS3000/NX9.
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post #212 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Colozeus View Post
Of first man? I’m talking about first man. Does the uhd also have a raised black floor like the interstellar uhd?
I thought you were referring to Interstellar. I wasn't impressed with the overall PQ of the First Man UHD. They used super 16 and 35mm for the majority of the shots, the 65mm imax scenes looked good though.

I would check known references like the Interstellar BD to make sure everything looks as expected for the black floor.
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post #213 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
As you know, I had been a long time JVC owner but now have the Sony 695ES. It's my first Sony and I purchased while JVC had a delay shipping the NX9's. I was a bit hesitant because of some anecdotes from some about panel degradation in some of the older Sony models. But after reading posts from owners of the more recent models 285, 385, 675, 885, etc., I mustered enough confidence to go ahead. I'm glad I did.

Native contrast measured 19,000:1, so dynamic will be about 3X that. ANSI contrast in a controlled room measured 420:1. Motion is so clear/ cadence on point/no SOE with true cinema. Sharpness and processing are outstanding. The 695 has the 18Gbp HDMIs now and has the X1 processor, the X1/X1Extreme...don't recall the exact iteration, but I know it's not the one Sony just placed in its highest end TV, the X1 Ultimate.

I know everybody says they can't see the difference with ANSI contrast (well except for when there was a brief euphoria about the JVCs that they would have about 50% increase, which didn't happen it seems), but I see good ANSI when it's there. Take a scene from this movie Valarian where this fellow General Actibar (ph spelling), on the e-shift JVC his face looks muted and washed out on most of the indoor scenes with bright behind him; but on the 695 his and all faces show clear and distinct features like all the other stuff.

I also don't have to constantly mess with gamma on the Sony like the eshift JVCs I had all suffered from severe gamma droop, whether that can be considered a type of panel degradation for the JVCs or if the new ones will still have it, I don't know.

But because of the outstanding motion and overall general contrast of this Sony, I would definitely not change to an NX7 based on the specs. I'm still considering the NX9 only because of its lens and still on the fence because I would be shocked if the JVC's motion and intra-scene contrast can match the Sony's believe it or not. In all, that's why I want to demo the NX9 first.
The euphoria, was about getting the increase, not that it would make a big difference. I always want higher contrast, ANSI and native, but particularly native. Just like I always want more lumens. As an example if native on a projector was 30,000:1 and the replacement was going to be 38,000:1, I would be excited about the increase, but that does not mean that I think I will see a difference.
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post #214 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Aztar35- I'm trying to make the decision myself between the JVC NX7/Sony (570ES) 695ES or just stepping up to the 760ES since Woofer's friend and Woofer himself seem happy with what the 760ES brings to the table or just getting the aforementioned 570ES and see what pans out next year if a laser trickles down in either the JVC or Sony ranges to mid level tiers.

I saw a Sony 295ES recently and although the 4K image from a 4K Blu-Ray looked fantastic, I then saw a 1080p Blu-Ray movie of Top Gun played through an Oppo into the projector and throughout scenes in the movie it looked like the grain in the movie manifested itself as digital noise. Don't know if it was a setting in the player, projector or the movie itself, or maybe my old DLP is better at hiding this.
Do you have a scope screen or a 16:9 screen?
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post #215 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
The beautiful thing about the Sony is that it has a naturally calm and clean picture and the laser iterations more so.

As Woofer so precisely pointed out, keep RC down. Also, if other processing is run on high, like zone or shift alignment, then it can materialize as noise. So, RC down...and for me I did something on mine...I went into the special menu and bypassed the preset zone alignment...what a clear picture now. Maybe talk to a pro about it first as going into that service menu and messing around the wrong way could brick your machine.
My biggest problem with the laser Sony's is the lack of light output adjustment. They only have a 40% range. On a 16:9 screen it is not an issue, but on a scope screen it is. As an example, if the projector can do 1,800 lumens at 100% output, then minimum is 1,080 lumens. If you have a 110" wide 1.0 gain scope 2.35 screen, then max brightness for scope HDR is 38FL. Pretty good for HDR. But SDR on the 16:9 size using minimum laser (1,080) you end up with 40FL. So your 16:9 SDR is brighter than your scope HDR. Yes, you can solve this problem by installing a neutral density filter, when ever watch SDR, but I am not interested in doing that. Sony needs to increase the adjustment range. I like the picture they throw.
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post #216 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Interesting. A couple of months ago, I visited a local dealer who carries bothy JVC and Sony, and he really kept pushing the Sony, even to the point of taking me in the back to show me some used JVC projectors that people had supposedly returned in order to swap them out for a Sony. He had a Sony 695 on display, which I thought really did not look very good -- but I'm confident the fault was how he had it set up, and not the projector itself.

Anyway, I always thought it odd that he was pushing the Sony's so hard, to the point that he would say things li,e "I'll get you one of the new JVC's if you really want, but we think the Sony [and we were talking about the 295 or the 695] is much better."

I visited that dealer once and have never been back.
Yes, must have been setup, because the 695 should look really good.
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post #217 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Colozeus View Post
My 3000 does not look as black on this scene. In fact, this is one of the scenes that got me thinking something must be off with gamma and or iris.


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You can't go by screenshots. They almost always look like they have a great black floor, even DLP's.
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post #218 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Aztar35- I'm trying to make the decision myself between the JVC NX7/Sony (570ES) 695ES or just stepping up to the 760ES
Do yourself a REAL favour......Try and view the above projectors before you decide!! DONT go on spec,s

Most opinions on these forums will have some degree of bias for one or the other, sometimes without actually seeing the projector in question.....this is just a plain fact.

I have learnt myself, DONT bias yourself to a brand ......SONY , JVC , EPSON , BENQ ..... Forget everybody else and use your own eyes and preferences ....and if you do this and are happy then stuff everybody else,s opinion ..... yours is ultimately all that matters.
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post #219 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Colozeus View Post
My 3000 does not look as black on this scene. In fact, this is one of the scenes that got me thinking something must be off with gamma and or iris.


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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I thought you were referring to Interstellar. I wasn't impressed with the overall PQ of the First Man UHD. They used super 16 and 35mm for the majority of the shots, the 65mm imax scenes looked good though.

I would check known references like the Interstellar BD to make sure everything looks as expected for the black floor.
The Black floor does reach proper black in First Man UHD, its about half that of Interstellar UHD, though there appears to be a tad amount of a red hue to the black in that shot as you will see its a little dominant in the waveform.

My Iris clamped right down on this shot and dozens of other times during the film.

First Man UHD Waveform,



Interstellar UHD


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post #220 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
When I post I do so as a home theater enthusiast who has been building his own home theaters since 2002. Fact of the matter is Sony projectors have a higher markup and pay a bigger spiff to salespeople. And most all home theater projector resellers carry Sony, JVC, Epson, BenQ, Optoma and maybe SIM2 and Digital Projection. So the idea that someone would push JVC over Sony because they could make more money is funny, since the opposite is true. But at the end of the day it's just about tradeoffs and choices. Nothing more.
I'm not sure why you're telling me all this. I hope you make a billion while you enjoy what you do. For me, this is just an entertainment vehicle about projector discussion.

As far as the different projectors, as someone else said above, they are all so good now and yet also have flaws...like the single chip DLPs have precision but are prone to RBE, weaker black levels, and weaker contrast. Even the Sony I have, as much as I'm happy with it, its dynamic iris is not as aggressive as the X990's I had and its blacks down low don't dig as deep. So what are some of the things you find negative about the JVCs?
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post #221 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Colozeus View Post
Of first man? I’m talking about first man. Does the uhd also have a raised black floor like the interstellar uhd?


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In my opinion ( from watching it once so far ) yes.
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post #222 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Do yourself a REAL favour......Try and view the above projectors before you decide!! DONT go on spec,s

Most opinions on these forums will have some degree of bias for one or the other, sometimes without actually seeing the projector in question.....this is just a plain fact.

I have learnt myself, DONT bias yourself to a brand ......SONY , JVC , EPSON , BENQ ..... Forget everybody else and use your own eyes and preferences ....and if you do this and are happy then stuff everybody else,s opinion ..... yours is ultimately all that matters.
Amen, to that.
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post #223 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The euphoria, was about getting the increase, not that it would make a big difference. I always want higher contrast, ANSI and native, but particularly native. Just like I always want more lumens. As an example if native on a projector was 30,000:1 and the replacement was going to be 38,000:1, I would be excited about the increase, but that does not mean that I think I will see a difference.
I get it. You're telling us you get easily excited about things that don't really matter.

I'm a bit different there, however.
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post #224 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I'm not sure why you're telling me all this. I hope you make a billion while you enjoy what you do. For me, this is just an entertainment vehicle about projector discussion.

As far as the different projectors, as someone else said above, they are all so good now and yet also have flaws...like the single chip DLPs have precision but are prone to RBE, weaker black levels, and weaker contrast. Even the Sony I have, as much as I'm happy with it, its dynamic iris is not as aggressive as the X990's I had and its blacks down low don't dig as deep. So what are some of the things you find negative about the JVCs?
I mentioned this because you said - " So...anyway, when I looked at some of his posts, I just thought he wanted to separate sales from science. ".

The sync time on JVC's is a bit irritating. Be nice if they could fix that. That's probably my only complaint on my current JVC. Any other complaint ( could be brighter, needs better black levels, could be quieter ) will apply to every projector ever made, and that ever will be made, from now until the day I die. Oh, and they could all be less expensive.
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post #225 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
My biggest problem with the laser Sony's is the lack of light output adjustment. They only have a 40% range. On a 16:9 screen it is not an issue, but on a scope screen it is. As an example, if the projector can do 1,800 lumens at 100% output, then minimum is 1,080 lumens. If you have a 110" wide 1.0 gain scope 2.35 screen, then max brightness for scope HDR is 38FL. Pretty good for HDR. But SDR on the 16:9 size using minimum laser (1,080) you end up with 40FL. So your 16:9 SDR is brighter than your scope HDR. Yes, you can solve this problem by installing a neutral density filter, when ever watch SDR, but I am not interested in doing that. Sony needs to increase the adjustment range. I like the picture they throw.
You know, I demo'd the 885ES and they had it on a gray screen and it looked darn good even with HDR content. It looked bright and punchy; I can't recall what the screen size was though, maybe 140 inches?? It was at Rob Zohn's place, Value Electronics.
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post #226 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
The Black floor does reach proper black in First Man UHD, its about half that of Interstellar UHD, though there appears to be a tad amount of a red hue to the black in that shot as you will see its a little dominant in the waveform.

My Iris clamped right down on this shot and dozens of other times during the film.
Thanks for the wave forms, I just watched a few scenes and the iris is clamping down. I wasn't a fan of the overall way the movie was filmed and the general depiction of NA.

I found Salyut-7 far more engaging and thought the cinematography and VFX were excellent. many edge of the seat moments.
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post #227 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Do yourself a REAL favour......Try and view the above projectors before you decide!! DONT go on spec,s

Most opinions on these forums will have some degree of bias for one or the other, sometimes without actually seeing the projector in question.....this is just a plain fact.

I have learnt myself, DONT bias yourself to a brand ......SONY , JVC , EPSON , BENQ ..... Forget everybody else and use your own eyes and preferences ....and if you do this and are happy then stuff everybody else,s opinion ..... yours is ultimately all that matters.
Thanks Woofer. Agreed. The problem is it so hard to find dealers in my state that have any projectors, let alone these projectors on display to view. I will probably need to fly interstate to find dealers that have these on display, let alone properly setup.
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post #228 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 10:20 PM
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Thanks for the wave forms, I just watched a few scenes and the iris is clamping down. I wasn't a fan of the overall way the movie was filmed and the general depiction of NA.

I found Salyut-7 far more engaging and thought the cinematography and VFX were excellent. many edge of the seat moments.
Salyut 7 is definitely an awesome movie.

I think I threw that recommendation to the forum a while back
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post #229 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Thanks Woofer. Agreed. The problem is it so hard to find dealers in my state that have any projectors, let alone these projectors on display to view. I will probably need to fly interstate to Vic or Sydney to find dealers that have these on display, let alone properly setup.
Its worth it......its a lot of cash to spend and you want to be 100% happy with what you spend.

I am NOT a dealer, and as @ARROW-AV puts it "Live In The Middle Of Nowhere" But when the time comes you are more than welcome to come by and view what i have here .

Z1 , X5000 , X7500 , X9900 , Sony 760ES ( Friends ) .....and i hope an N7
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post #230 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I get it. You're telling us you get easily excited about things that don't really matter.
If people aren't allowed to get excited about things that don't matter, these projector threads are going to be a lot shorter.
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post #231 of 2791 Old 02-02-2019, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Thanks Woofer. Agreed. The problem is it so hard to find dealers in my state that have any projectors, let alone these projectors on display to view. I will probably need to fly interstate to find dealers that have these on display, let alone properly setup.
spizz, flights are cheap these days, can most definitely day trip interstate and wont be at a cost in any significance when consider the kind of cost projectors here. that said these are SO new, so no idea when they will be even setup at retailers let alone demoed in any sport of calibrated state. there are a few retailers interstate to you that do demo and even have them calibrated. but it would be worth checking in with them and keeping tabs so not a wasted trip.... id think given these things be walking out the door for a while so could be a while before gets to that point....

all that said dont you have a few good retailers your ways eg VAF ? krix ? vision living ? ....even have a great calibrator in your state....

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post #232 of 2791 Old 02-03-2019, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post
Aztar35- I'm trying to make the decision myself between the JVC NX7/Sony (570ES) 695ES or just stepping up to the 760ES since Woofer's friend and Woofer himself seem happy with what the 760ES brings to the table or just getting the aforementioned 570ES and see what pans out next year if a laser trickles down in either the JVC or Sony ranges to mid level tiers.

I saw a Sony 295ES recently and although the 4K image from a 4K Blu-Ray looked fantastic, I then saw a 1080p Blu-Ray movie of Top Gun played through an Oppo into the projector and throughout scenes in the movie it looked like the grain in the movie manifested itself as digital noise. Don't know if it was a setting in the player, projector or the movie itself, or maybe my old DLP is better at hiding this.
spizz I think you have same sharp dlp my cousin had and he upgraded a while back to a previous non uhd capable JVC and can tell you he was blown away. so am sure will be more than blown away with a newer gen projector be it 4k uhd capable or not

what you are describing with blu-ray you can get with uhd as well... apparent with either cranked up processing (possible with the sony's) and also present often also with mastering (san andreas and mad max come to mind) check those reviews and will find them mentioned ....these kind of things can be present. but also more apparent and come to surface the larger the screen.... and closer the viewing....

cant speak of top gun, one i havent seen for a while .... if there is a time stamp do post we can check out. I can only in previous gen jvc, but am sure someone can check out for your on current gen being spoken off here

ps re lasers.... I think at the price point we are talking the n5/n7 ie the mid level projectors ... I wouldnt have hopes of them having lasers in a year. laser projectors at the cheapest are at about twice (plus) these mid level PJs are at...

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post #233 of 2791 Old 02-03-2019, 12:11 AM
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Purely for interest sake...

Z1/RS4500 vs NX9 with 8K E-Shift OFF/ON

MPC set to 0

What the still images of the NX9 DO NOT show is the excessive image noise with 8K E-Shift ON..

Just to clarify a point......

If you were to display the image from the NX9 ( with 8K E-Shift OFF) first, your response will be "WOW!" it looks very good

Its only when you switch to the image displayed from the Z1/RS4500 that you will then go.... OH !
I "hope" that you have added some sharpness on the Z1 compared to the Nx9. Because the Z1 have edge enhancement and noise in the picture compared. Also you see that the image on the Nx9 is more clean and unprocessed. Then with this photos.


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post #234 of 2791 Old 02-03-2019, 12:34 AM
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I "hope" that you have added some sharpness on the Z1 compared to the Nx9.
NOPE! Sorry, you can twist it anyway you want , "FACT" is the NX9 that was compared to the Z1 in this instance ....."WAS NOT AS SHARP"

Repeat myself ONCE AGAIN .... after comparing/staring at mega amounts of stills/video ...the outcome was always the same !

If you cant handle that , then so be it.
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post #235 of 2791 Old 02-03-2019, 01:36 AM
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NOPE! Sorry, you can twist it anyway you want , "FACT" is the NX9 that was compared to the Z1 in this instance ....."WAS NOT AS SHARP"

Repeat myself ONCE AGAIN .... after comparing/staring at mega amounts of stills/video ...the outcome was always the same !

If you cant handle that , then so be it.
I only refer to your pictures, and they show it quit perfect and clair.

I don't care if the Z1 is better than the NX9. I only say what you see form your pictures and that can't be twisted in any way.
Pictures taken speak for themselves.

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Last edited by Dj Dee; 02-03-2019 at 01:46 AM.
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post #236 of 2791 Old 02-03-2019, 02:00 AM
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I wanted to start measure myself the native contrast on my Sony 695ES to check for panel degradation. I have an i1 display pro. I point to meter to the projector in light ambient mode and I divide the measurement of 100IRE to the measurement of the 0%IRE. Is that correct or are there other tricks? At which distance should I put the meter from the projector? Thanks
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post #237 of 2791 Old 02-03-2019, 02:11 AM
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I wanted to start measure myself the native contrast on my Sony 695ES to check for panel degradation. I have an i1 display pro. I point to meter to the projector in light ambient mode and I divide the measurement of 100IRE to the measurement of the 0%IRE. Is that correct or are there other tricks? At which distance should I put the meter from the projector? Thanks

To get it as accurate as possible move your i1 display pro close to the projector. And do the measurement.

So you get higher value measurement in Black.

Also turn of auto iris function if you have that on.

I have also find out using the Sony calibration software you get back much of the lost contrast. Best example on this was a VW500
Contrast before Sony software 2600:1 After Sony software and calibrating with same brightness output 6200:1
A Sony Vw260 7000:1 calibrated, after Sony Software and recalibrated 10000:1

Projectors JVC NX9 :) , JVC X500, JVC RS400, Cine9
Calibrator: Software: Calman Pro
Colorimeter: Klein K10A, Spectroradiometer: Jeti 1501
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post #238 of 2791 Old 02-03-2019, 02:15 AM
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I have purchased a full production NX9 . I will be comparing its performance to the previous "Pre Production sample i had .....will be very interesting to see what ( if any) differences there are between them.

Once i have had some time with it i will then on-sell it, which wont be a problem due to their VERY short supply.
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post #239 of 2791 Old 02-03-2019, 02:25 AM
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@Dj Dee

I have purchased a full production NX9 . I will be comparing its performance to the previous "Pre Production sample i had .....will be very interesting to see what ( if any) differences there are between them.

Once i have had some time with it i will then on-sell it, which wont be a problem due to their VERY short supply.
Always interesting to see side by side

But I hope you see what the pictures say?

That can't be twisted in any way. I have not tested the Z1 side by side with a N series, but remember that the sharpness on the Z1 was superb.
But did not check the settings in the projector. I know that it was added processing in the MPC on the demo. I don't like that at all. I always use MPC on 0 0 0 0. And on a demo added sharpness might look wow

Projectors JVC NX9 :) , JVC X500, JVC RS400, Cine9
Calibrator: Software: Calman Pro
Colorimeter: Klein K10A, Spectroradiometer: Jeti 1501
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post #240 of 2791 Old 02-03-2019, 02:31 AM
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Always interesting to see side by side

But I hope you see what the pictures say?

That can't be twisted in any way. I have not tested the Z1 side by side with a N series, but remember that the sharpness on the Z1 was superb.
But did not check the settings in the projector. I know that it was added processing in the MPC on the demo. I don't like that at all. I always use MPC on 0 0 0 0. And on a demo added sharpness might look wow
Yeah...Please dont get me wrong , i think the NX9 is a very very good projector

My biggest gripe with it is actually the 8K E-Shift ........IMO it only degrades the image ..... Until i see otherwise from what i experienced on the sample NX9 i had, i will not change my opinion .
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