The 2019 model projectors comparison thread - Page 85 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3355Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2521 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 05:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
My room is actually not bright.. it has very dark carpets, very dark brown wood (almost black), and i used dark maroon... but i do plan to put up black velvet curtains that i can pull up around the two walls when i am watchign a movie.. i haven't installed them yet...

BTW: As of right now, i did do a test, ie, just actaully sticking the black velvet onto the walls and floors and i don't really see much difference.. i think my room is prob already dark enough...

Back to my original comment... it is still factually true that the statement 'the blacker the room the better' is a false one... 'a very, very dark room is ideal' may be more accurate....
What we see is part reality and partly an illusion.

Overall, darkening the room with velvet is a benefit EVEN over just plain dark black,
even though it is possible that NOT every single dark scene you watch (in your mind's eye at least) will improve comparatively.
The mixed dark scenes and the bright scenes are affected in a HUGE way, even if you already have a dark black room and are just going darker with velvet.

How do I know, because I have moved a lot and have to keep re-doing my HT room, and have had all different levels of a BLACKED out room.

Also, I started with black sheets, then added the velvet, so I remember what it looks like with black sheets tacked to the ceiling vs. Black Velvet.

So you are missing out my friend, until you get the black velvet.

The only thing I have issues with is aesthetics, but that is also partly my poor decorating skills and my lack of budget I apply to decorating.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 05-04-2019 at 05:51 PM.
coderguy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2522 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 06:43 PM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Exactly, their argument was vaporized and now all they have left is trying to spin that the vaporized space debris isn't debris at all, it just looks like it in the pictures



I would be interested in a Benq ht3550 vs. Benq lk970 comparison, it appears the ht3550 has a DI (odd for a $1500 4k projector).


See what the difference in contrast is, the ht3550 might beat it (hah). That might really upset some of them.

OMG I can’t stop laughing. What a total joke!!!
jherring69 and coolgeek like this.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #2523 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 07:46 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
Not a joke actually, I know of at least one person that preferred the $1500 ht3550 over the lk990...
Though they didn't do a detailed comparison, I'm interested in a detailed comparison.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2524 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 08:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,863
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 840 Post(s)
Liked: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Not a joke actually, I know of at least one person that preferred the $1500 ht3550 over the lk990...
Though they didn't do a detailed comparison, I'm interested in a detailed comparison.
Not a joke to me either. I would want to see the actual difference between the two rather than just assume. On paper it's close
coderguy likes this.
blee0120 is offline  
post #2525 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 08:16 PM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Not a joke actually, I know of at least one person that preferred the $1500 ht3550 over the lk990...

Though they didn't do a detailed comparison, I'm interested in a detailed comparison.

jherring69 likes this.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #2526 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 08:26 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
What you are paying for on the lk990 is more lumens, but from the reviews I've seen, IMO they made a sloppy laser torch mode projector without addressing several issues.
It sounds like it needs several firmware patches.

Also the contrast measurements I have seen for it are very mediocre at best, ranging from as low as 950:1 to as high as 1350:1 I believe for the Native.
The Dynamic contrast was 3000:1 to 8000:1 (if I recall) depending whom you believe.

And given how bright the projector is, it's unlikely the contrast measurements are all that inaccurate.

It has the same basic contrast as a Benq w7000.

That is not even at UHZ-65 or Acer vl7860 levels...

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 05-04-2019 at 08:31 PM.
coderguy is online now  
post #2527 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 09:07 PM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
What you are paying for on the lk990 is more lumens, but from the reviews I've seen, IMO they made a sloppy laser torch mode projector without addressing several issues.

It sounds like it needs several firmware patches.



Also the contrast measurements I have seen for it are very mediocre at best, ranging from as low as 950:1 to as high as 1350:1 I believe for the Native.

The Dynamic contrast was 3000:1 to 8000:1 (if I recall) depending whom you believe.



And given how bright the projector is, it's unlikely the contrast measurements are all that inaccurate.



It has the same basic contrast as a Benq w7000.



That is not even at UHZ-65 or Acer vl7860 levels...

Says the guy who’s seen neither.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #2528 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 09:17 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Says the guy who’s seen neither.
That is an excuse to disavow the facts, there are testers in this forum that are way beyond my current testing capabilities (Javs, Arrow, etc...).
Sure in the old days, I was a half-decent PJ reviewer and tester compared to say the PJR site, but these days some people have become really advanced at it, and I wouldn't even bother with it.

Sorry, but I cannot add anything really to things others tested, other than seeing more samples or differing calibration equipment.
Also I have a C6 and Calman 5.x, but I don't trust it, things come out a bit red. I need to find someone to profile it for me to tell me how far it's off.

If I cannot get one in my own room, I'm not going to bother, it's not worth it.

Going by the numbers, all the reports, and all the professional reviews is better than me seeing one, I just wouldn't have time to mess with all this stuff right now.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is online now  
post #2529 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 09:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7,849
Mentioned: 475 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6791 Post(s)
Liked: 6418
The LK990 maxes out at 5000:1 dynamic. 1000:1 native.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is offline  
post #2530 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 10:06 PM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
That is an excuse to disavow the facts, there are testers in this forum that are way beyond my current testing capabilities (Javs, Arrow, etc...).


Sure in the old days, I was a half-decent PJ reviewer and tester compared to say the PJR site, but these days some people have become really advanced at it, and I wouldn't even bother with it.



Sorry, but I cannot add anything really to things others tested, other than seeing more samples or differing calibration equipment.

Also I have a C6 and Calman 5.x, but I don't trust it, things come out a bit red. I need to find someone to profile it for me to tell me how far it's off.



If I cannot get one in my own room, I'm not going to bother, it's not worth it.



Going by the numbers, all the reports, and all the professional reviews is better than me seeing one, I just wouldn't have time to mess with all this stuff right now.

Oh, so there’s “facts” now on this comparison? By Javs and Arrow you say? Do you have links by chance? I’d love to read them.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #2531 of 2789 Old 05-04-2019, 11:25 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
For starters, the BC didn't work correctly, the projector exhibited abnormally poor contrast for this price point, and the thing is designed as a torch mode projector with inaccurate color without a very intensive calibration. You misread (as usual) the part about who has tested it, I was speaking in general terms of the 'testing' process itself.

What else do we need to know, other than there are some missing magic settings that only you know about via HarperVision?

BTW, your argument style is arguing about the argument, and becomes tiresome.

All that said, for some people that can live with a torch mode, they may need the brightness for a giant screen.
Although, sounds like there are some other laser projectors they should look at before 'settling' for these drawbacks.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 05-04-2019 at 11:47 PM.
coderguy is online now  
post #2532 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 01:32 AM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
The 2019 model projectors comparison thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
For starters, the BC didn't work correctly, the projector exhibited abnormally poor contrast for this price point, and the thing is designed as a torch mode projector with inaccurate color without a very intensive calibration. You misread (as usual) the part about who has tested it, I was speaking in general terms of the 'testing' process itself.



What else do we need to know, other than there are some missing magic settings that only you know about via HarperVision?



BTW, your argument style is arguing about the argument, and becomes tiresome.



All that said, for some people that can live with a torch mode, they may need the brightness for a giant screen.

Although, sounds like there are some other laser projectors they should look at before 'settling' for these drawbacks.

Says the guy who’s never seen one and has a 50 lumen broken DLP.

Your broken record about things you’ve never seen and know nothing of is becoming quite tiresome as well. Give it a rest until you’ve actually had some experience.

You’re quite the comedian without even knowing it.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #2533 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 01:38 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Says the guy who’s never seen one and has a 50 lumen broken DLP.

Your broken record about things you’ve never seen and know nothing of is becoming quite tiresome as well. Give it a rest until you’ve actually had some experience.

You’re quite the comedian without even knowing it.
If you want to send me one, then fine, otherwise stop repeating yourself.

Why would I go see a projector when others in here that are trustworthy have already tested it?
That would mean this forum is almost 'useless', when actually it provides a good analysis which allows us to SKIP having to see and test them.

Your eyes will lie all day, everyone's does, but I know you are special (so excuse me for forgetting). That's why we go by actually A/B'n and measurements.
BTW, I did see the Acer vl7860 before, however I don't mention it because it was a useless endeavor.
I have gone and seen several projectors, and the more projectors I see, the more I realize I'd need to test it in my own home.
There is only one place that will let me really test them, and it's too much trouble and I don't want to bother them anymore.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 05-05-2019 at 01:43 AM.
coderguy is online now  
post #2534 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 01:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
That's you, yes. Not necessarily everyone else though. Many people mostly watch SDR content; and in fact, as of right now the vast majority of consumer content is SDR not HDR


Nope. Sorry, I have in fact carried out comprehensive evaluations in this regard covering the range 0 - 1.5% ADL and that is the basis upon which I am able to draw the (correct) conclusion that the JVC massively outperforms the SONY within this range. Seriously, it is not even close.

I will be documenting all of this and posting the full details on here shortly, wherein, this will be over in the other thread that is specifically comparing the 2019 model SONY vs JVC projectors. Wherein, I have already posted the first round of information in this regard, which I will repost here for you, which should be self-explanatory:

JVC RS3000/NX9 vs SONY 995/870ES | ROUND 1:

INTERSTELLAR 00:53:30 PERFORMANCE




• JUXTAPOSE FRAME COMPARISON: https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxta...6-0edaf8f81e27

• SCREENSHOT COMPARISON: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134786





I will be posting more than this covering further lower ADL examples but as you can see the performance is not even close.

That said, of course the situation reverses as we move up the ADL range, which I will be showing examples of as well, and this exposes some of the flaws that the JVC has which the SONY does not have


Yes the SONY trounces the JVC after 10% ADL upwards

However, you've got it backwards, in that the vast majority of content lies BELOW 10% ADL not above; wherein, statistically around 3/4 of all video content resides below 10% ADL and only circa 1/4 above 10% ADL, and only 10% of all video content resides above 20% ADL


Yeah, the situation currently sucks in this regard doesn't it? If BenQ were to release a new model with high ON/OFF contrast they'd clean up




Good day!
About what advantage JVC before Sony on 0% -1,5% you speak?
This is the advantage that somehow magically arose after your last measurements of N9?



[/QUOTE]


Explain, please, how did it happen that JVC doubled the contrast by 1% ???
On any device, the dynamic aperture does not double by 1%, and your previous measurements did not!
And then suddenly the magic!
Vladimirovich is online now  
post #2535 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 02:10 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7,849
Mentioned: 475 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6791 Post(s)
Liked: 6418
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladimirovich View Post
good day!

About what advantage jvc before sony on 0% -1,5% you speak?

This is the advantage that somehow magically arose after your last measurements of n9?

Explain, please, how did it happen that jvc doubled the contrast by 1% ???

On any device, the dynamic aperture does not double by 1%, and your previous measurements did not!

And then suddenly the magic!
a firmware update.
ARROW-AV likes this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is offline  
post #2536 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 02:16 AM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
The 2019 model projectors comparison thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
If you want to send me one, then fine, otherwise stop repeating yourself.



Why would I go see a projector when others in here that are trustworthy have already tested it?


That would mean this forum is almost 'useless', when actually it provides a good analysis which allows us to SKIP having to see and test them.



Your eyes will lie all day, everyone's does, but I know you are special (so excuse me for forgetting). That's why we go by actually A/B'n and measurements.


BTW, I did see the Acer vl7860 before, however I don't mention it because it was a useless endeavor.


I have gone and seen several projectors, and the more projectors I see, the more I realize I'd need to test it in my own home.

There is only one place that will let me really test them, and it's too much trouble and I don't want to bother them anymore.

Please do show me the links where they’ve used my settings and posted about them.

Dylan, LK990: I didn’t have one yet, he was on his own (and clearly didn’t spend enough time to perfect it). He tried my LK970 settings which obviously don’t translate, so moot.

Javs, LK990: Only used MadVR HDR to SDR

markmon, LK970: Only used MadVR HDR to SDR

woofer, LK970: Only used Radiance or MadVR HDR to SDR (I believe?)

So how is it I can’t be “trustworthy” if nobody has tried to use my settings and has only done their own thing? I’m supposed to be judged on other people’s work now, who choose not to do the same? Is that how it works? Were they afraid to? Why didn’t they?

Funny thing is, all the ones that actually HAVE used my settings really seem to love it!

What the heck does an Acer VL7860 have to do with this, anyway??? Are you actually being so callous as to say those are even in the same league as the LKs with their amazing optics, liquid cooling, Automatic Power Control and SmartEco Laser/Gamma Dimming?

Last edited by Dave Harper; 05-05-2019 at 02:21 AM.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #2537 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 02:25 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

What the heck does an Acer VL7860 have to do with this, anyway???
I also have seen two other laser DLP's...
I already know I prefer JVC over the others, I've seen more than enough.

Now if my screen were over 135", maybe (doubtful even then) I'd consider something else. Couldn't live with the contrast, and cannot budget for a Sony laser.

I have 106" 16:9 and 120" 2.35, the JVC will work perfectly, and I have no reason to want or see anything else.
Nothing else will look as good TO ME for my preferences.

This means I have a DUAL screen setup which requires lens memory and LOTS of lens shift.

However, my RS-45 at farthest throw still does some pretty respectable black levels and is relatively sharp (not 4k sharp, but relatively).
I compared an e-shift JVC and decided to stick with the RS-45 until I go with a 4k JVC, so I'm obviously not as picky as some are or I would have upgraded quicker.

I used to upgrade every year, but now I find it less important, as the increases are more modest than before.

Edit
As a matter of fact, other than the annoying short lamp-life and not 'always' enough brightness, I'd probably hold off another 3-5 years before upgrading the JVC.
I do need to upgrade my backup DLP though (a Benq w7000), looking at the Benq ht3550 (maybe), but I'll probably wait for a refurb version since it's only a backup.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 05-05-2019 at 02:44 AM.
coderguy is online now  
post #2538 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 02:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7,849
Mentioned: 475 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6791 Post(s)
Liked: 6418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Please do show me the links where they’ve used my settings and posted about them.

Dylan, LK990: I didn’t have one yet, he was on his own (and clearly didn’t spend enough time to perfect it). He tried my LK970 settings which obviously don’t translate, so moot.

Javs, LK990: Only used MadVR HDR to SDR

markmon, LK970: Only used MadVR HDR to SDR

woofer, LK970: Only used Radiance or MadVR HDR to SDR (I believe?)

So how is it I can’t be “trustworthy” if nobody has tried to use my settings and has only done their own thing? I’m supposed to be judged on other people’s work now, who choose not to do the same? Is that how it works? Were they afraid to? Why didn’t they?

Funny thing is, all the ones that actually HAVE used my settings really seem to love it!

What the heck does an Acer VL7860 have to do with this, anyway??? Are you actually being so callous as to say those are even in the same league as the LKs with their amazing optics, liquid cooling, Automatic Power Control and SmartEco Laser/Gamma Dimming?
Woofer absolutely did try your settings.

Let him tell you how they compare to MadVR.

It would be great if you didn't carry on like your settings make or break these projectors. It devalues the opinions of everybody else when you have not used dynamic tone mapping of any kind yourself. It's hypocritical don't you think?

You have a radiance there. Please use it and you will see what the huff is about.
Spizz likes this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is offline  
post #2539 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 02:50 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
Like 4 people have tested the Benq lk990 projector and all had near the same conclusion, that's more than enough, and it should be 'case closed'.

--------------
Another difficulty I have is I am near max horizontal lens shift and I am shooting out of a giant closet (which is not quite center of the room), because otherwise my throw is too short.

With the Benq ht3550, it has a shorter throw, so I will mount that one on a shelf at the back probably only use it for SOME 16:9 content (or manually adjust).
DLP's are great for backup projectors.

The JVC will remain shooting out of a closet.

The only 2 projectors that even work in my setup are the Epson or JVC, and that's an easy call

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 05-05-2019 at 03:05 AM.
coderguy is online now  
post #2540 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 229 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3843 Post(s)
Liked: 6265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimirovich View Post
Good day!
About what advantage JVC before Sony on 0% -1,5% you speak?
This is the advantage that somehow magically arose after your last measurements of N9?
Spoiler!



Explain, please, how did it happen that JVC doubled the contrast by 1% ???
On any device, the dynamic aperture does not double by 1%, and your previous measurements did not!
And then suddenly the magic!
I have moved this and answered this over in THIS thread wherein it is most relevant so let's take the conversation over HERE: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post58001092


Last edited by ARROW-AV; 05-05-2019 at 03:15 AM.
ARROW-AV is online now  
post #2541 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 03:15 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
What the heck does an Acer VL7860 have to do with this, anyway??? Are you actually being so callous as to say those are even in the same league as the LKs with their amazing optics, liquid cooling, Automatic Power Control and SmartEco Laser/Gamma Dimming?
Now who is the comedian?

From everything I've read, the ACER actually has quite a bit better contrast
And to be quite honest, it didn't look much better contrast wise (if any) than my Benq w7000 (which is pretty bad).

My opinion of DLP's is pretty sour, which is why I've held back about ones I have seen and have not posted in here.
Please don't force it out of me, as I don't feel like starting an all out flame war.

I might even rather have the DI, because I can probably adjust that in the service menu as I did with my w7000 (not sure about the dimmer).
I can have a homemade DI algorithm (so to speak). I really am not concerned about total blackouts so much, that will come with my next JVC.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 05-05-2019 at 03:28 AM.
coderguy is online now  
post #2542 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 03:24 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 229 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3843 Post(s)
Liked: 6265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Please do show me the links where they’ve used my settings and posted about them.

Dylan, LK990: I didn’t have one yet, he was on his own (and clearly didn’t spend enough time to perfect it). He tried my LK970 settings which obviously don’t translate, so moot.

Javs, LK990: Only used MadVR HDR to SDR

markmon, LK970: Only used MadVR HDR to SDR

woofer, LK970: Only used Radiance or MadVR HDR to SDR (I believe?)

So how is it I can’t be “trustworthy” if nobody has tried to use my settings and has only done their own thing? I’m supposed to be judged on other people’s work now, who choose not to do the same? Is that how it works? Were they afraid to? Why didn’t they?

Funny thing is, all the ones that actually HAVE used my settings really seem to love it!

What the heck does an Acer VL7860 have to do with this, anyway??? Are you actually being so callous as to say those are even in the same league as the LKs with their amazing optics, liquid cooling, Automatic Power Control and SmartEco Laser/Gamma Dimming?
The UK has been slower to get the LK990 than elsewhere it would seem, and I specifically want to evalaute the new model, not the old (LK970) model. But I hope to receive delivery of my BenQ LK990 soon; and when I do I will most certainly be wanting to use your settings @Dave Harper so as to ensure that I achieve the best possible performance out of the projector prior to evaluating it.

As you know I am a huge fan of DLP projectors so I am very much looking forward to evaluating this

Dave Harper and Archibald1 like this.
ARROW-AV is online now  
post #2543 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 03:26 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
I like DLP's too (in general), but I think the manufacturers are hoodwinking the consumers with some of these expensive DLP's.
Seems silly the issues they are shipping with, some of these are like actually more expensive than an entry level JVC...

Yet, in some ways are performing NOT all that different than $800 projectors with a white segment.

Given how long some of these newer projectors lamps are lasting, that is a REALLY big premium to pay for a LASER or LED source.
Archibald1 likes this.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --

Last edited by coderguy; 05-05-2019 at 03:47 AM.
coderguy is online now  
post #2544 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 04:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 849
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 523 Post(s)
Liked: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Here's the comparative performances with respect to HDR performance (SDR performance for the JVC vs SONY to follow):







And for those who are interested: SIM2 HDR DUO PLUS | Review & Discussions

When you actually work out the percentage difference in contrast ratio between the JVC and Sony there appearance to be a very narrow window where the JVC significantly outperforms the Sony, namely 0% and by the time they had both reached 1% the percentage advantage has dropped to 30%, after this point on the scale provided the Sony starts win this battle, by 2% it’s switch by 22% in favour of Sony, by 5% it’s increased to 35% and by 10% it’s more the 50% in Sony’s favour.

I agree [email protected] that most content currently purchased is 1080P SDR but we you consider the majority of Projectors in use are cheaper 1080p models it is to be expected, of those that own $5k and above projectors I think it’s fair to assume most will be purchasing UHD Blurays, also an ever increasing amount of Amazon and Netflix content is HDR so I reckon in the future HDR performance will continue to be more important.

The underlining question is how much significance does the JVC’s huge advantage in the sub 1%ADL range make to the overall viewing experience?

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Radiator)
Luminated67 is online now  
post #2545 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 04:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
OK, well if people want 'true comedy', see this review at 9:35....



"Self made billionaire, you know just how I cook my instant pot noodles"

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is online now  
post #2546 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 04:31 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 229 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3843 Post(s)
Liked: 6265
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I like DLP's too (in general), but I think the manufacturers are hoodwinking the consumers with some of these expensive DLP's.
Seems silly the issues they are shipping with, some of these are like actually more expensive than an entry level JVC...

Yet, in some ways are performing NOT all that different than $800 projectors with a white segment.

Given how long some of these newer projectors lamps are lasting, that is a REALLY big premium to pay for a LASER or LED source.
The BenQ LK990 isn't an expensive DLP, it costs circa $8,000

The BARCO LOKI, which uses exactly the same TI 0.67" 4M-pixel-shift resolution Single-Chip DLP DMD chipset, costs $90,000... Now THAT'S an expensive DLP!

Archibald1 likes this.
ARROW-AV is online now  
post #2547 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 04:36 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2420 Post(s)
Liked: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
The BenQ LK990 isn't an expensive DLP, it costs circa $8,000

The BARCO LOKI, which uses exactly the same TI 0.67" 4M-pixel-shift resolution Single-Chip DLP DMD chipset, costs $90,000... Now THAT'S an expensive DLP!

That's not a knife, now this is a knife...

40,000 Lumens for $150,000

https://www.govgroup.com/nec-display...xoCLWIQAvD_BwE
Archibald1 likes this.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is online now  
post #2548 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
We're Nuts About AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 229 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3843 Post(s)
Liked: 6265
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
That's not a knife, now this is a knife...

40,000 Lumens for $150,000

https://www.govgroup.com/nec-display...xoCLWIQAvD_BwE
Nope... Sorry, that's not a knife... That costs a whopping $150,000; it's only dual RB laser; with only 1800:1 native ON/OFF contrast

Now THIS is a knife: Christie D4K40-RGB pure laser projector

40,000 Lumens for $85,000; it's FULL RGB laser; with 5000:1 native ON/OFF contrast; AND circa 95% of BT.2020 color gamut

tigerhonaker and Archibald1 like this.

Last edited by ARROW-AV; 05-05-2019 at 05:14 AM.
ARROW-AV is online now  
post #2549 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 05:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
markmon1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,498
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4629 Post(s)
Liked: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
Just to re-iterate... read those two comments by Mike Garret... i was simply making a point that they can't both be true... I wasn't making a stance on whether black velvet is a good idea or not.. i do intent to put up a velvet curtain myself..
Man is English a 2nd language for you (not trying to offend just trying to understand the breakdown here)? Because if so, you should try to ask more questions rather than get so adamant about every statement and be wrong all the time.

Mike's statements were easy to understand and true at the same time. The blacker the theater, the better the image. True. The blacker the theater, the more you can tell the difference between poor black floor such as the one your sony produces vs a better black floor such as on a JVC. If your room is super bright, then neither the sony nor the JVC will even hit their black floor and they may even look the same at that point. In the black room, both the sony and the JVC will look their best. Super easy to understand.
Mike Garrett likes this.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
markmon1 is online now  
post #2550 of 2789 Old 05-05-2019, 05:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
markmon1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,498
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4629 Post(s)
Liked: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Please do show me the links where they’ve used my settings and posted about them.

Dylan, LK990: I didn’t have one yet, he was on his own (and clearly didn’t spend enough time to perfect it). He tried my LK970 settings which obviously don’t translate, so moot.

Javs, LK990: Only used MadVR HDR to SDR

markmon, LK970: Only used MadVR HDR to SDR

woofer, LK970: Only used Radiance or MadVR HDR to SDR (I believe?)

So how is it I can’t be “trustworthy” if nobody has tried to use my settings and has only done their own thing? I’m supposed to be judged on other people’s work now, who choose not to do the same? Is that how it works? Were they afraid to? Why didn’t they?

Funny thing is, all the ones that actually HAVE used my settings really seem to love it!

What the heck does an Acer VL7860 have to do with this, anyway??? Are you actually being so callous as to say those are even in the same league as the LKs with their amazing optics, liquid cooling, Automatic Power Control and SmartEco Laser/Gamma Dimming?
Woofer used your settings. He discovered madVR after he did the initial comparisons. He then said how madVR improved *everything*. So if woofer compared madVR vs your settings and said madVR was better, then I feel confident that my tests with only madVR was equal to or better than your settings.

Further, your settings cant magically lower the black floor on the projector. So those scenes that have absolute black that looked milky grey wouldn't have mattered anyway. When absolute black is displayed, its not impacted by gamma settings. Gamma doesn't impact true black or true white only the in-between.

90% of the content looks really great on the LK970. It's a nice projector. My friend loves the LK970. I guess his opinion is invalid since he isn't using your settings? Not sure why this cant be good enough for you.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
markmon1 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
2019 , Epson , Jvc , Projectors , Sony

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off