Originally Posted by DLCPhoto
I understand what you're saying in the 2nd paragraph quoted above, and I think to some degree it is valid. Our perception of blacks and contrast are different in side-by-side comparisons vs one projector on its own. But as coderguy pointed out above, and as you indicate in the first paragraph above, there is a 'reference' value for black in the room, even when there is only one projector in there.
Honest question here - wouldn't a projector with poorer black levels and contrast be evident, when compared with the black screen frame (assuming you have one), and/or the black velvet around the screen, even though there is no other projector in the room?
Similarly, if someone has had a projector with excellent black levels and contrast in their room, wouldn't they have a 'reference' perception relative to those blacks, within the limits of visual and perceptual memory, such that a projector with poorer black levels would be more readily recognized, even without a side-by-side?
The BOLDED points is where the gigantic argument was over that photograph Marmon1 posted between his JVC and the Sony...
And till today, it seems the argument goes over many people's heads..
Here.. let me summarize again... Our eye's contrast level is dynamic... it changes based on what it sees as a whole. I believe our per frame contrast is no more than 1000:1... the reason we seem to see 'more than that' is because in moving objects, from scene to scene, our eyes changes that 1000:1 to different levels...
So, if you're concentrating on the 'black velvet', then the eyes uses that as the black reference, and that's where your 1000:1 starts.. and that's why you see the 'black inside the projected images as grey mist'... but if you're not 'actively looking at the black frame', then your 'frame of reference is the black floor of the projector, thus, it will look way blacker'...
And therein lies the problem with photo comparisons.. it biases the eyes to the 'blacker' side.. and thus the less black will appear grey... without the 'blacker side' the less black becomes the 'black'..
and that's why almost no one who isn't 'looking for' or 'concentrating' on the blackest object in their room just to check out their projecrtor's contrast level will ever tell you that the space scene looks grey... !
But I really do not want to open up that can of worms again... people are just talking over each other.. and then you have the bullies who thinks they know it all comes in here flaming everyone who don't agree with them...
Originally Posted by Luminated67
This is another example of how important absolute black is important to JVC owners where you actually still look for reference points in the screen border etc instead of enjoying the movie. It is an obsession no matter what way you look at it.
But what I saying is I have seen JVCs which are better than anything else regards to black levels so your argument to doesn’t hold water.
Are you saying you would prefer a 720p projector with killer black level over a 4K projector like my Epson with average black levels?
Exactly.... and just by staring at the border, they actually bias their eyes to that black level...
Originally Posted by Archibald1
Hmmmm, the FIRST thing people buy a projector for is screen size.
Without being relatively cheap for the screen size, they wouldn't even be in the running by any other metric.
Speaking of which, my sister just bought a micro projector and projects it on her ceiling.. 'big' is the wow factor there... haha
And i remember, while in college, i would loan out the university's projector (those were lousy computer projectors' and then have movie nights in my room... image quality is nowhere near my tv, but then my tv was 40 inches while the projector was 100 inches... ppl loved it!
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett
People talk about contrast and black levels like it is a JVC thing. It is a picture thing, as in it improves the image. Heck, if we could get the Christie DLP at JVC prices, we would all own the Christie. In other words, it is not the technology that matters, it is the image that the projector throws, that matters.
That's the thing.. only to JVC owners, it's a JVC thing.. i am pretty happy with the black levels of my Sony..