BenQ HT9060 / x12000h Owners Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 431 Old 03-24-2019, 10:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
............



It is very, very close. Other manufacturers quote a tolerance on lens adjustments of up to +/- 5%.

I guess worst case you'll either have to lower your screen or the PJ a little.

I think you mean raise the screen or lower the projector a little, right?
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post #182 of 431 Old 03-24-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I think you mean raise the screen or lower the projector a little, right?
Yes, engage brain
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post #183 of 431 Old 03-24-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
65% means the projector can be 65% of the image height above the centre of the projected image. Or another way, 15% of the image height above the top edge of the screen surface.
120 inch diagonal 16:9 screen has height of 59".
59" x 0.15 = 8.85" above screen edge max.

It is very, very close. Other manufacturers quote a tolerance on lens adjustments of up to +/- 5%.
I guess worst case you'll either have to raise your screen or lower the PJ a little. (edited, thanks @Dave Harper )
Excellent, Thank you. I think I could probably bring the projector down an additional inch or 2 if required.
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post #184 of 431 Old 03-24-2019, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobof View Post
65% means the projector can be 65% of the image height above the centre of the projected image. Or another way, 15% of the image height above the top edge of the screen surface.
120 inch diagonal 16:9 screen has height of 59".
59" x 0.15 = 8.85" above screen edge max.

It is very, very close. Other manufacturers quote a tolerance on lens adjustments of up to +/- 5%.
I guess worst case you'll either have to raise your screen or lower the PJ a little. (edited, thanks @Dave Harper )
Correct. Also if you use any horizontal lens shift, you will have less than 8.85" of vertical lens shift.
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post #185 of 431 Old 03-24-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Correct. Also if you use any horizontal lens shift, you will have less than 8.85" of vertical lens shift.
Yes, a lot of folk forget that, one of those inconvenient details manufacturers seem to like to bury in the user-guides, that the lens can basically move in an oval shape from the full horizontal to the full vertical lens shift position.
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post #186 of 431 Old 03-24-2019, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Correct. Also if you use any horizontal lens shift, you will have less than 8.85" of vertical lens shift.
Ahh, interesting. Currently I do use a tiny bit of horizontal shift with the JVC, maybe 2 inches. Might have to do some more measurements to see how much lower I can drop the projector and if there is any room to raise the screen.

Thanks for your assistance.
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post #187 of 431 Old 03-29-2019, 07:45 PM
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https://www.cepro.com/article/hands_...ojector_review

Posted this in the HT9060 and LK990 thread as well.
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post #188 of 431 Old 03-31-2019, 08:29 AM
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Will any body who has seen this projector in person please tell me if it shows digital noise in its images.
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post #189 of 431 Old 03-31-2019, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Will any body who has seen this projector in person please tell me if it shows digital noise in its images.

I watched The Martian in 4k + 1080p on the X12000H on a 127" scope and it was clean, sharp and crisp. Using the 2.4 aspect ratio option to fit a 16:9 1080p image (so CIH) it was softer as expected but no noise. If you feed this projector a quality source it will reward you accordingly.
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post #190 of 431 Old 04-01-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jklow888 View Post
I watched The Martian in 4k + 1080p on the X12000H on a 127" scope and it was clean, sharp and crisp. Using the 2.4 aspect ratio option to fit a 16:9 1080p image (so CIH) it was softer as expected but no noise. If you feed this projector a quality source it will reward you accordingly.
What do you mean fitting a 16:9 image to a scope screen? That is not CIH.
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post #191 of 431 Old 04-01-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
What do you mean fitting a 16:9 image to a scope screen? That is not CIH.

So the 127 scope screen is approx 135" in 16:9 for a 2.35 movie with the light overspill above an below. If you used a motorized or manual zoom to fit the 16:9 of approx 135 onto the 127 scope screen then you would shrink the 135" down to approx 101" so that the height is constant relative to the scope screen (so height is approx 49.5").

From page 29 of the manual: "2.4:1: Scales an image so that it is displayed in the center of the screen with a 2.4:1 aspect ratio." - I do think the diagram showing this is wrong though as it should have the black bars on the left and right (instead of top and bottom).


This is a useful option in lieu of a motorized zoom/shift if you wanted to watch 16:9 material in a pinch.
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post #192 of 431 Old 04-02-2019, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jklow888 View Post
So the 127 scope screen is approx 135" in 16:9 for a 2.35 movie with the light overspill above an below. If you used a motorized or manual zoom to fit the 16:9 of approx 135 onto the 127 scope screen then you would shrink the 135" down to approx 101" so that the height is constant relative to the scope screen (so height is approx 49.5").

From page 29 of the manual: "2.4:1: Scales an image so that it is displayed in the center of the screen with a 2.4:1 aspect ratio." - I do think the diagram showing this is wrong though as it should have the black bars on the left and right (instead of top and bottom).


This is a useful option in lieu of a motorized zoom/shift if you wanted to watch 16:9 material in a pinch.
Good Morning to all from Italy.
I have had this projector for about a month and a half, but I finished restyling my new Home Theater only 10 days ago so I can only post my impressions now.
The projector is great and everyone who comes to see it, is thrilled by the sharpness and the beautiful and rich colors of the images.
My screen is a Screen research 130'' diagonal 16:9, acoustically transparent and 0.8 gain. A soon as I can I will share some screenshots taken from the movies X-Men Apocalypse and The Martian.
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post #193 of 431 Old 04-02-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Will any body who has seen this projector in person please tell me if it shows digital noise in its images.

I can confirm, no digital noise at all, at least I don't see it with mine and the image is really clean and razor.
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post #194 of 431 Old 04-02-2019, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jklow888 View Post
So the 127 scope screen is approx 135" in 16:9 for a 2.35 movie with the light overspill above an below. If you used a motorized or manual zoom to fit the 16:9 of approx 135 onto the 127 scope screen then you would shrink the 135" down to approx 101" so that the height is constant relative to the scope screen (so height is approx 49.5").

From page 29 of the manual: "2.4:1: Scales an image so that it is displayed in the center of the screen with a 2.4:1 aspect ratio." - I do think the diagram showing this is wrong though as it should have the black bars on the left and right (instead of top and bottom).


This is a useful option in lieu of a motorized zoom/shift if you wanted to watch 16:9 material in a pinch.
I know exactly how CIH works. Have designed 100's of scope systems and own one (curved masking scope screen with A-lens on a sled) myself. I just was not following what you were saying, since you were talking about fitting a 16:9 image to a scope screen. Sounded like you were wanting to stretch out the 16:9 image to fit the width of your scope screen, rather than using a 16:9 image fitting height of the screen.

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post #195 of 431 Old 04-02-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by X12000H View Post
Good Morning to all from Italy.
I have had this projector for about a month and a half, but I finished restyling my new Home Theater only 10 days ago so I can only post my impressions now.
The projector is great and everyone who comes to see it, is thrilled by the sharpness and the beautiful and rich colors of the images.
My screen is a Screen research 130'' diagonal 16:9, acoustically transparent and 0.8 gain. A soon as I can I will share some screenshots taken from the movies X-Men Apocalypse and The Martian.
Great to hear it looks good on an AT 0.8 gain 130" screen.

I am thinking of adding to an 0.9 gain screen of similar size.
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post #196 of 431 Old 04-02-2019, 10:48 AM
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Great to hear it looks good on an AT 0.8 gain 130" screen.

I am thinking of adding to an 0.9 gain screen of similar size.
Hi Ruined, keep in mind that my Home Theater is perfectly darkened. For what we saw (and remember) calibrating the projector, we have near 70cd/mq in Hdr, but to be sure I will ask my friend that did the manual calibration with HCFR.
Here is the gamut diagram after calibration.
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post #197 of 431 Old 04-02-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by X12000H View Post
I can confirm, no digital noise at all, at least I don't see it with mine and the image is really clean and razor.
Hi. I appreciate the feedback. And going by your screen name, I take it you must really like this projector.

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Originally Posted by X12000H View Post
Hi Ruined, keep in mind that my Home Theater is perfectly darkened. For what we saw (and remember) calibrating the projector, we have near 70cd/mq in Hdr, but to be sure I will ask my friend that did the manual calibration with HCFR.
Here is the gamut diagram after calibration.
If your walls are also dark, can you give us your assessment of how the blacks look in dark content? Also, what other projectors have you owned or seen for reference? Thanks.
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post #198 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 01:38 AM
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[QUOTE=Aztar35;57845242]Hi. I appreciate the feedback. And going by your screen name, I take it you must really like this projector.


Hi Aztar,
You are right ! I really like this new projector and the emotions it gives me and all the people who come to see it. Practically everyone says that it seems to be inside the movie. And another thing that makes me happy is that even 1080p movies (at least the few I watched) look like if I saw them in a new light, because of the wonderful and never seen before colors, sharpness and transparency (superb optics).
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post #199 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 01:48 AM
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If your walls are also dark, can you give us your assessment of how the blacks look in dark content? Also, what other projectors have you owned or seen for reference? Thanks.[/QUOTE]


You can not expect a "DLA black level" ( from the calibration the black level is about 0,05 cd/mq), on the other hand it is a DLP projector, but the results for me are really good. I will post some screenshots just to give an idea of how the blacks look in my Home Theater.

I am a DLP lover and have had Infocus, Dreamvision, Projection Design and the last one before this was a Planar PD8150.
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post #200 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 02:11 AM
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This is my "dark" Home Theater and the Benq installed.
My screen has a masking system and it is essential to have the best image quality and perceived contrast.


Here is a link to my Home Theatre interior, installed Benq and some screenshots. Keep in mind that images are brighter than it appears in photography (I'm not a professional photographer )



Hope you all can enjoy it !


https://postimg.cc/gallery/2j7bcm8re/
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post #201 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by X12000H View Post

You can not expect a "DLA black level" ( from the calibration the black level is about 0,05 cd/mq), on the other hand it is a DLP projector, but the results for me are really good. I will post some screenshots just to give an idea of how the blacks look in my Home Theater.

I am a DLP lover and have had Infocus, Dreamvision, Projection Design and the last one before this was a Planar PD8150.
If u had a pd8150/ls5 last and really like the ht9060 thats quite a nice compliment for the ht9060.

Also really like your theater design.

Last edited by Ruined; 04-03-2019 at 06:06 AM.
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post #202 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 06:50 AM
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Smile

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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
If u had a pd8150/ls5 last and really like the ht9060 thats quite a nice compliment for the ht9060.

Also really like your theater design.

Hi Ruined, for me it is really a big step forward in term of picture quality.

As an Architect I designed my Home Theater myself so thank You for your compliments
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post #203 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 06:51 AM
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Everything looks great. Very well done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by X12000H View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
If u had a pd8150/ls5 last and really like the ht9060 thats quite a nice compliment for the ht9060.

Also really like your theater design.

Hi Ruined, for me it is really a big step forward in term of picture quality.

As an Architect I designed my Home Theater myself so thank You for your compliments [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
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post #204 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by X12000H View Post
This is my "dark" Home Theater and the Benq installed.
My screen has a masking system and it is essential to have the best image quality and perceived contrast.


Here is a link to my Home Theatre interior, installed Benq and some screenshots. Keep in mind that images are brighter than it appears in photography (I'm not a professional photographer )



Hope you all can enjoy it !


https://postimg.cc/gallery/2j7bcm8re/
Very nice pictures of your theater and of the projected images. I have two comments:

First, I think the blue lighting looks better than the red in your theater room.

Second, the screen shots you posted show amazing sharpness and outstanding resolution rendering. However, on my monitor, the screen shots lack a convincing black, almost having a gray cast. Do they appear that way in person?
If yes, I would think this projector has enough brightness in the tank to use a negative gain screen to subjectively bring down the appearance of black levels. I could also ask you this way: you had the LS5; how do the black levels on the HT9060/X12000h compare to the Runco LS-5's you had?

Still, the lines in your screen images are so sharp and well-resolved that the objects themselves "contrast" themselves via sharpness.
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post #205 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 06:53 AM
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Everything looks great. Very well done.

Thank You too !
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post #206 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Very nice pictures of your theater and of the projected images. I have two comments:

First, I think the blue lighting looks better than the red in your theater room.

Second, the screen shots you posted show amazing sharpness and outstanding resolution rendering. However, on my monitor, the screen shots lack a convincing black, almost having a gray cast. Do they appear that way in person?
If yes, I would think this projector has enough brightness in the tank to use a negative gain screen to subjectively bring down the appearance of black levels. I could also ask you this way: you had the LS5; how do the black levels on the HT9060/X12000h compare to the Runco LS-5's you had?

Still, the lines in your screen images are so sharp and well-resolved that the objects themselves "contrast" themselves via sharpness.
Hi Aztar 35,


Thanks for your comments, being RGB led I made some light scenarios depending on movie time: pre-movie, movie start, pause, movie end ....etc with different light colours and effects not only in the Home Theater itself, but also in the surrounding rooms: main entrance, Foyer, Theater entrance, small lounge bar .... so it is all connected.


Blaks are from a DLP so they aro no inky, but darker than they appear on screenshots and having a negative gain screen helps and in comparison with my former projctor (as long as my memory remember) they look better. I will try to do a side by side comparison between these two projectors to check it out



I'm not sure I have understood your last sentence, but if it is a compliment, thanks
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post #207 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by X12000H View Post
Hi Aztar 35,


Thanks for your comments, being RGB led I made some light scenarios depending on movie time: pre-movie, movie start, pause, movie end ....etc with different light colours and effects not only in the Home Theater itself, but also in the surrounding rooms: main entrance, Foyer, Theater entrance, small lounge bar .... so it is all connected.


Blaks are from a DLP so they aro no inky, but darker than they appear on screenshots and having a negative gain screen helps and in comparison with my former projctor (as long as my memory remember) they look better. I will try to do a side by side comparison between these two projectors to check it out



I'm not sure I have understood your last sentence, but if it is a compliment, thanks
I am assuming the LS5 was not used on gray screen? Because native on the 9060 is most likely around 1,000:1 and native on the LS5 is 2,500:1. If you still have the LS5, you should brightness match and shoot onto the same screen and see what difference you can see in the black levels.

Usually screen shots make the black level appear much better than it really is?
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post #208 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I am assuming the LS5 was not used on gray screen? Because native on the 9060 is most likely around 1,000:1 and native on the LS5 is 2,500:1. If you still have the LS5, you should brightness match and shoot onto the same screen and see what difference you can see in the black levels.

Usually screen shots make the black level appear much better than it really is?
Why in the world would you brightness match to compare 4k HDR picture quality when HDR needs all the lumens it can get? The LS5 is like 500 lumens, you'd have to put a sock over the ht9060 to get it that dim and that is why the ls5 is a bad choice for HDR, you'd be purposely hobbling the ht9060 for unknown reason as there would be practically no reason to hobble it in real world use.

Native contrast ain't the only game in town anymore with the introduction of lumens hungry HDR.
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Last edited by Ruined; 04-03-2019 at 07:49 AM.
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post #209 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 07:50 AM
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Hi Aztar 35,

Blaks are from a DLP so they aro no inky, but darker than they appear on screenshots and having a negative gain screen helps and in comparison with my former projctor (as long as my memory remember) they look better. I will try to do a side by side comparison between these two projectors to check it out

I'm not sure I have understood your last sentence, but if it is a compliment, thanks
Oh yes, it was definitely a compliment. I mean, you have that single chip design. Add to that 8.3 million pixels. Add to that the great glass lens and the content will still pop. I'm actively posting on this because I have this projector on my radar.

I had the predecessor, the HT9050, but it didn't have HDR and didn't look as good as your pictures are showing. But if your HT9060 can generate blacks as convincing as the LS-5, I'm sold!

So those images you posted are off of a negative gain screen/gray screen?

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I am assuming the LS5 was not used on gray screen? Because native on the 9060 is most likely around 1,000:1 and native on the LS5 is 2,500:1. If you still have the LS5, you should brightness match and shoot onto the same screen and see what difference you can see in the black levels.
Usually screen shots make the black level appear much better than it really is?
Good point. I measured around 2,300:1 native on my LS-5 and around 8,000:1 dynamic. The LS-5 is spec'd at 3,000:1 native and 15,000:1 dynamic contrast, but it's not a light cannon, putting out around 1050 lumens.

Anyway, I've been very interested in the HT9060 for its wide native color abilities and its much lower risk of exhibiting RBE. I'm wondering if the HT9060, with its brighter top end, can generate convincing blacks. While native contrast is similar to the HT9050, the HT9060 is now supposed to have between 4,000 and 5,000:1 dynamic contrast to help with lower APL material.
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post #210 of 431 Old 04-03-2019, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Oh yes, it was definitely a compliment. I mean, you have that single chip design. Add to that 8.3 million pixels. Add to that the great glass lens and the content will still pop. I'm actively posting on this because I have this projector on my radar.

I had the predecessor, the HT9050, but it didn't have HDR and didn't look as good as your pictures are showing. But if your HT9060 can generate blacks as convincing as the LS-5, I'm sold!

So those images you posted are off of a negative gain screen/gray screen?



Good point. I measured around 2,300:1 native on my LS-5 and around 8,000:1 dynamic. The LS-5 is spec'd at 3,000:1 native and 15,000:1 dynamic contrast, but it's not a light cannon, putting out around 1050 lumens.

Anyway, I've been very interested in the HT9060 for its wide native color abilities and its much lower risk of exhibiting RBE. I'm wondering if the HT9060, with its brighter top end, can generate convincing blacks. While native contrast is similar to the HT9050, the HT9060 is now supposed to have between 4,000 and 5,000:1 dynamic contrast to help with lower APL material.
Once Kris gets started on his review on the 9060, we should know a lot more about about the 9060 performance.
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