JVC RS3000/DLA-NX9 worth the extra $$$ over RS2000/NX7? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 50 Old 09-28-2019, 11:58 AM
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There must be upgrades in the optical elements such that JVC rates the lumen specs 1800/1900/2200 for NX5/7/9!

It would seem very dishonest to make this claim based on “binned” bulb brightness, when they know most users will be replacing bulbs over time, different bulb dimming rates etc.
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post #32 of 50 Old 09-28-2019, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
There must be upgrades in the optical elements such that JVC rates the lumen specs 1800/1900/2200 for NX5/7/9!

It would seem very dishonest to make this claim based on “binned” bulb brightness, when they know most users will be replacing bulbs over time, different bulb dimming rates etc.
The NX9 can be mounted closer for the same screen size so that may account for some or all of the brightness difference.
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post #33 of 50 Old 09-29-2019, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
There must be upgrades in the optical elements such that JVC rates the lumen specs 1800/1900/2200 for NX5/7/9!

It would seem very dishonest to make this claim based on “binned” bulb brightness, when they know most users will be replacing bulbs over time, different bulb dimming rates etc.
JVC doesn't make the claim based on binned bulbs. In fact, there's no guarantee that the bulb you receive in your NX9 is the brighter one than the one yo might receive in an NX5. There are folks with an NX5 that measures brighter than an NX9 due to this situation.

The 2200 lumens over 1900 is supposedly due to the large / better lens, slightly better parts used.
The 1900 lumens over 1800 lumens is due to slightly better panels but honestly, its rounded. JVC has even said so in the past. If NX5 averages say 1833 lumens and NX7 averages 1875 lumens they round it to 1800 and 1900.

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post #34 of 50 Old 10-01-2019, 02:26 AM
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Has anyone directly compared the NX7 with NX9? After reading this thread, I can’t find a compelling reason to spend the extra $6k (usd street) on NX9.

The only real world benefit seems to be POSSiBLY 300 more lumens (probably 100-200 calibrated) due to closer throw range and/or the larger glass lens of the NX9.
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post #35 of 50 Old 10-01-2019, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by blake View Post
Has anyone directly compared the NX7 with NX9? After reading this thread, I can’t find a compelling reason to spend the extra $6k (usd street) on NX9.

The only real world benefit seems to be POSSiBLY 300 more lumens (probably 100-200 calibrated) due to closer throw range and/or the larger glass lens of the NX9.
Yep the lens does seem like the only difference. But a lens can make a substantial difference. Not only can it be brighter but it also can be a sharper cleaner image. Edge to edge sharpness should be improved.

I know when I use my mirrorless cameras the ability to resolve resolution using a cheap lens vs a good prime is massive. I would expect the same between the two.

I have not seen the two side by side so I would hope someone that has can comment. I will say I have not seen a major increase in contrast between the two noted in any reviews.

So is a massive high quality lens worth 6k? That is up to you!

Last edited by gunlife; 10-01-2019 at 07:49 AM.
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post #36 of 50 Old 10-01-2019, 08:13 AM
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I've seen all 3.

The biggest difference is certainly the lens. The image was sharper on the NX9 compared to both the NX7 and NX5 that I saw. Also the focus uniformity was pretty much perfect on the NX9 all the way out to the corners.

Now the lens on the 5 and 7 are no slouch and are still really nice, but the NX9 just took it to the next level IMO.

However, I still think you have to be sitting pretty darn close to even appreciate this difference.

The other main physical difference is the 8K eShift. This as far as I saw was an overall positive, but it was an extremely small difference. Probably because the input signal is still limited to 4K.

Finally we come to contrast, which is always a complicated subject. As far I have seen trustworthy measurements, looking at all 3 projectors with the iris fully open and the auto DI disabled and the BT.2020 color filter off, the NX5 is about 20K:1, the NX7 is about 25K:1 and the NX9 is about 30K:1. This difference is of course small and hard to notice between 2 adjacent (5 vs 7 and 7 vs 9), but the 5 vs the 9 is noticeable.

But don't let those numbers discourage you, those are the worst case numbers. As you close down the iris, the 7 and 9 create a much larger gap due to the fact that they have 2 iris and the 5 has only 1. At full closed -15 iris, the NX5 does about 37K:1, NX7 does about 50K:1 and the NX9 about 60K:1. Finally, adding the BT.2020 color filter adds some more contrast as well and brings the 7 to about 60K:1 and the NX9 about 70K:1.

These are then multiplied for dynamic by the auto DI in similar proportions to their static measurements.

My opinion is the NX9 is not worth it and you are much better off getting a NX7 with a DCR lens for similar price. The extra light that the DCR lens provides you would allow you to surpass any possible lumen advantage of the NX9. And with that lumen advantage you could close the iris down on the NX7 even more which can close the gap in contrast between the NX7 and NX9 as well. Either way you will have a choice for more brightness for HDR or more contrast closing down the iris farther.
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post #37 of 50 Old 10-01-2019, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
I've seen all 3.

The biggest difference is certainly the lens. The image was sharper on the NX9 compared to both the NX7 and NX5 that I saw. Also the focus uniformity was pretty much perfect on the NX9 all the way out to the corners.

Now the lens on the 5 and 7 are no slouch and are still really nice, but the NX9 just took it to the next level IMO.

However, I still think you have to be sitting pretty darn close to even appreciate this difference.

The other main physical difference is the 8K eShift. This as far as I saw was an overall positive, but it was an extremely small difference. Probably because the input signal is still limited to 4K.

Finally we come to contrast, which is always a complicated subject. As far I have seen trustworthy measurements, looking at all 3 projectors with the iris fully open and the auto DI disabled and the BT.2020 color filter off, the NX5 is about 20K:1, the NX7 is about 25K:1 and the NX9 is about 30K:1. This difference is of course small and hard to notice between 2 adjacent, but the 5 vs the 9 is noticeable.

But don't let those numbers discourage you, those are the worst case numbers. As you close down the iris, the 7 and 9 create a much larger gap due to the fact that they have 2 iris. At full closed -15 iris, the NX5 does about 37K:1, NX7 does about 50K:1 and the NX9 about 60K:1. Finally, adding the BT.2020 color filter adds some more contrast as well and brings the 7 to about 60K:1 and the NX9 about 70K:1.

These are then multiplied for dynamic by the auto DI in similar proportions to their static measurements.

My opinion is the NX9 is not worth it and you are much better off getting a NX7 with a DCR lens for similar price. The extra light that the DCR lens provides you would allow you to surpass any possible lumen advantage of the NX9. And with that lumen advantage you could close the iris down on the NX7 even more which could close the gap in contrast between the NX7 and NX9 as well. Either way you will have a choice for more brightness for HDR or more contrast closing down the iris farther.

This is about what I was thinking without being able to see them with my own eyes. Like I said lenses on cameras make a difference. But you normally only notice it at the corners and when you pixel peep. But if you must have the best lens based projector on the market the NX9 is your ticket. NX7 should be the better scenario for most buyers. $6,000 can be put to use upgrading other parts of your theater.

If you have extreme disposable income in life then go for the nx9 or 4500 why not!
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post #38 of 50 Old 10-01-2019, 09:02 PM
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JVC RS3000/DLA-NX9 worth the extra $$$ over RS2000/NX7?

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Originally Posted by gunlife View Post
This is about what I was thinking without being able to see them with my own eyes. Like I said lenses on cameras make a difference. But you normally only notice it at the corners and when you pixel peep. But if you must have the best lens based projector on the market the NX9 is your ticket. NX7 should be the better scenario for most buyers. $6,000 can be put to use upgrading other parts of your theater.



If you have extreme disposable income in life then go for the nx9 or 4500 why not!

RS4500 vs NX9 is my next question. Another jump in price. But identical lens. Stable laser light source, ok sure. Maybe a little worse contrast but probably not perceivable compared to NX9.

So light output is the biggest difference. As per Arrow-AV (below) rS4500 running in the most common mode (HDR without filter, medium laser) is 1905 lumens calibrated. A NX9 would presumably be 2200-400=1800 lumens calibrated. With a DCR lens add 38% = 2484 lumens.

Seems like the NX9 with DCR is a better option than a rs4500 ($5k USD street cheaper and MUCH brighter).

Yes, High laser would bring you up to 2447 lumens- equal to NX9 and DCR - but this is LOUD (43dB) and hot.

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post #39 of 50 Old 10-01-2019, 09:11 PM
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In my experience with measuring an NX9 it was the same brightness as NX5/7 and about 1600 lumens calibrated without the BT2020 filter.
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post #40 of 50 Old 10-02-2019, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by blake View Post
RS4500 vs NX9 is my next question. Another jump in price. But identical lens. Stable laser light source, ok sure. Maybe a little worse contrast but probably not perceivable compared to NX9.

So light output is the biggest difference. As per Arrow-AV (below) rS4500 running in the most common mode (HDR without filter, medium laser) is 1905 lumens calibrated. A NX9 would presumably be 2200-400=1800 lumens calibrated. With a DCR lens add 38% = 2484 lumens.

Seems like the NX9 with DCR is a better option than a rs4500 ($5k USD street cheaper and MUCH brighter).

Yes, High laser would bring you up to 2447 lumens- equal to NX9 and DCR - but this is LOUD (43dB) and hot.

I know the NX9 and RS4500 supposedly have the same lens, but I think the RS4500 was manufactured to a higher quality. @woofer has done side-by-side comparisons of several units and the RS4500 was better lens in each. I know on paper the NX9 has better contrast. But the RS4500 has a better black floor and dynamic laser dimming is far superior to mechanical dynamic iris.

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post #41 of 50 Old 10-02-2019, 03:17 AM
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I know the NX9 and RS4500 supposedly have the same lens, but I think the RS4500 was manufactured to a higher quality. @woofer has done side-by-side comparisons of several units and the RS4500 was better lens in each. I know on paper the NX9 has better contrast. But the RS4500 has a better black floor and dynamic laser dimming is far superior to mechanical dynamic iris.
Yeah, i think everyone well and truly knows my opinion on this , ill take the Z1/RS4500 over the NX9 "Any day of the week"

Looked long and hard at BOTH side by side ( actually over and under ) dont need paper specs to form a conclusion !!
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post #42 of 50 Old 10-04-2019, 12:55 AM
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Yeah, i think everyone well and truly knows my opinion on this , ill take the Z1/RS4500 over the NX9 "Any day of the week"



Looked long and hard at BOTH side by side ( actually over and under ) dont need paper specs to form a conclusion !!


Do you run rs4500 in high laser all the time ? If so do you have a hush box. What size is your screen ?


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post #43 of 50 Old 10-04-2019, 02:16 AM
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Do you run rs4500 in high laser all the time ? If so do you have a hush box. What size is your screen ?


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Med laser with madVR and HDR. Screen is a 143" scope .
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post #44 of 50 Old 10-05-2019, 03:33 PM
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Ordered a JVC DLA-NX7 a week ago, still have 1-2 wk to wait. Now I'm wondering, should I have spent more for the RS3000/NX9 OR saved money and gotten the RS1000/NX5?
So what diod you end up doing @davidahn , did you stick with the NX7?
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post #45 of 50 Old 10-05-2019, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Canceled / Upgraded

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So what diod you end up doing @davidahn , did you stick with the NX7?
Sorry if any of this is rehashing what's been discussed, but... I haven't been keeping up with the thread.

Hey Cleveland Plasma, I canceled my NX7 and moved up to the NX9. It's very possible I could have been perfectly happy with the NX7 but I LOVE my NX9. Even on my 158" 2.35:1 screen it's PLENTY bright and punchy. I don't know what kind of light cannons people are used to, but my setup is kind of blinding on certain mostly whited out scenes, though probably after my pupils getting used to dark scenes.

It also has great sharpness and no visible pixels even a few inches from my screen, though I do have a Seymour AV AT screen whose texture is somewhat distracting, I can't lie. But from 14-15 ft, it's a BEAUTIFUL experience.

Also, I'm noticing a LOT of 4K Blurays are very blurry a lot of the time for some scenes, and very sharp in other scenes. Kind of a bummer.

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post #46 of 50 Old 10-05-2019, 10:49 PM
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Med laser with madVR and HDR. Screen is a 143" scope .

How do you factor in loss of lumens with zoom to 2.40:1 versus gain of lumens using Panamorph DCR? I was advised NX9+DCR is brighter than Rs4500 (when viewing scope content)?

NX9 is 1900 lumens calibrated I believe. So viewing 2.40 scope with Panamorph DCR is supposedly 38% brighter=2622 lumens

RS4500 is 2447 lumens calibrated (High laser). So does this drop 25% when zooming scope content - to 1885 lumens ?

I have a feeling my math is not right as this seems like too huge difference in brightness.
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post #47 of 50 Old 10-06-2019, 06:13 AM
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How do you factor in loss of lumens with zoom to 2.40:1 versus gain of lumens using Panamorph DCR? I was advised NX9+DCR is brighter than Rs4500 (when viewing scope content)?

NX9 is 1900 lumens calibrated I believe. So viewing 2.40 scope with Panamorph DCR is supposedly 38% brighter=2622 lumens

RS4500 is 2447 lumens calibrated (High laser). So does this drop 25% when zooming scope content - to 1885 lumens ?

I have a feeling my math is not right as this seems like too huge difference in brightness.
It doesn't really work like this. The lumen output doesn't drop when using a scope screen. You just don't benefit by focusing the whole panel like you do with a lens. So in your example above, you're comparing 2622 lumens on NX9 + lens to 2447 lumens without lens.

However, if you're going to run your NX9 on high lamp, it will be closer to 1700 lumens instead of 1900 lumens pretty quick probably within 300-400 hours. The JVC lamps are really fantastic when you keep them on low lamp. They drop off much faster when you burn through them on high.

Also, on both the NX9 and RS4500, you can benefit a little bit on scope content without the lens by zooming to the full 17:9 panel width. I guess I gain ~150 lumens this way. I don't need the extra brightness most the time so it lets me clamp my manual iris down a little further in this mode for a slight increase in contrast.

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post #48 of 50 Old 10-06-2019, 09:26 AM
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JVC RS3000/DLA-NX9 worth the extra $$$ over RS2000/NX7?

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It doesn't really work like this. The lumen output doesn't drop when using a scope screen. You just don't benefit by focusing the whole panel like you do with a lens. So in your example above, you're comparing 2622 lumens on NX9 + lens to 2447 lumens without lens.



However, if you're going to run your NX9 on high lamp, it will be closer to 1700 lumens instead of 1900 lumens pretty quick probably within 300-400 hours. The JVC lamps are really fantastic when you keep them on low lamp. They drop off much faster when you burn through them on high.



Also, on both the NX9 and RS4500, you can benefit a little bit on scope content without the lens by zooming to the full 17:9 panel width. I guess I gain ~150 lumens this way. I don't need the extra brightness most the time so it lets me clamp my manual iris down a little further in this mode for a slight increase in contrast.

Thanks for clarifying this. So:

NX9 + DCR : 1900 calibrated lumens that quickly falls to 1700 (on high lamp). Add DCR and you are up to 2312 lumens.

RS4500: stable at 2447 calibrated lumens (High laser, using projector zoom for scope content)

Not sure if the added $7k usd for rs4500 is worth it for such a small brightness increment, slightly worse contrast, no HDR dynamic tone mapping firmware, loud / hot / large unit. I guess advantage is no need to recalibrate and no moving dynamic iris that can fail.

Last edited by blake; 10-06-2019 at 09:40 AM.
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post #49 of 50 Old 10-08-2019, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by gunlife View Post
This is about what I was thinking without being able to see them with my own eyes. Like I said lenses on cameras make a difference. But you normally only notice it at the corners and when you pixel peep. But if you must have the best lens based projector on the market the NX9 is your ticket. NX7 should be the better scenario for most buyers. $6,000 can be put to use upgrading other parts of your theater.

If you have extreme disposable income in life then go for the nx9 or 4500 why not!
I have an NX9+DCR and it is just fantastic regarding sharpeness edge to edge. Especially on 4K sources. If I put up the focus pattern I can see the pixel structure if I look really hard and can see it pretty much all over the screen surface even through my DCR!

My only viewing of an NX7 was a brief one and not side by side with NX9, but I did compare the NX9 to the RS4500 and didn't see too much of a difference between those two (same lens may explain).

I measured last night with 15' throw and iris @ 0 to my 138" scope unity gain screen and I get 74 nits in BT2020 and 91 nits without the filter.
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post #50 of 50 Old 10-08-2019, 06:19 AM
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Thanks for clarifying this. So:

NX9 + DCR : 1900 calibrated lumens that quickly falls to 1700 (on high lamp). Add DCR and you are up to 2312 lumens.

RS4500: stable at 2447 calibrated lumens (High laser, using projector zoom for scope content)

Not sure if the added $7k usd for rs4500 is worth it for such a small brightness increment, slightly worse contrast, no HDR dynamic tone mapping firmware, loud / hot / large unit. I guess advantage is no need to recalibrate and no moving dynamic iris that can fail.
Lumens isn't everything - you can do a lot with good tonemapping with lower lumens, as long as you are above the threshold for getting some specular highlights in HDR.

RS4500 in my opinion is not worth it over NX9 + DCR - mainly on the fan noise alone, let alone the price difference. Laser is nice, but I'm going to pass until a quieter laser is released a few years down the road.
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