The 2019 Model SONY vs JVC Projectors Comparison Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1793 Old 02-12-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jamnik View Post
I posted this in the Sony VPL-VW695ES thread but I thought I’d check here as well. Has anyone measured the light output of the 695 projector? I didn’t check in the beginning but after about 140 hours, the most I can get in any mode is about 1470 lumens in reference mode with max brightness, D93 color temp, high lamp in the shortest throw. Reference mode with default settings gets me about 1370 lumens. The cinema 1 default is about 1220 in high and 720 in low. I was just wondering if that’s normal or if something is not right with my projector or lamp.

Thanks
Here are the measurements from Gregory for the 570ES/695ES:
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post #32 of 1793 Old 02-12-2019, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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post #33 of 1793 Old 02-12-2019, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
"With a native contrast between 10000 and 13000:1, the VPL-VW570ES does not really need the help of a dynamic iris..."

Yep, I found that statement kinda ridiculous but at least he took the time to take some measurements
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post #34 of 1793 Old 02-12-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Here are the measurements from Gregory for the 570ES/695ES:
Thanks for the info. I’m not seeing anything near those numbers (again, after about 150 hours) on mine. Here are my measurements in lumens in each mode with default settings, shortest throw (using CA813 meter).
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post #35 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 02:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jamnik View Post
Thanks for the info. I’m not seeing anything near those numbers (again, after about 150 hours) on mine. Here are my measurements in lumens in each mode with default settings, shortest throw (using CA813 meter).
Sorry if I am stating the obvious, but make sure that:

(1) You are calculating your lumens using 17:9 aspect ratio for your 'screen size' because this is the actual panel size, NOT 16:9

(2) Maximum Zoom

(3) The manual mechanical iris ('Lamp Iris') is set to '0'

(4) Dynamic Iris set to Manual (i.e. turned OFF)

(5) You are measuring off the lens at the screen, not off the screen

(6) You are measuring the centre of the screen

Does this change anything?


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post #36 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jamnik View Post
I posted this in the Sony VPL-VW695ES thread but I thought I’d check here as well. Has anyone measured the light output of the 695 projector? I didn’t check in the beginning but after about 140 hours, the most I can get in any mode is about 1470 lumens in reference mode with max brightness, D93 color temp, high lamp in the shortest throw. Reference mode with default settings gets me about 1370 lumens. The cinema 1 default is about 1220 in high and 720 in low. I was just wondering if that’s normal or if something is not right with my projector or lamp.

Thanks
How are you calculating your lumens? Did you take into account for the fact that your projector is a 17x9 panel and your screen might only be 16x9? What is your lux measurement on high and low and what is your screen dimensions in inches width/height?

Your formula for a 16x9 screen should be (width and height are in feet):
(lux / 10.76) x (width x height) x 1.0625
The 1.0625 is the 17x9 vs 16x9 conversion factor.

I use to take all my measurements on bright TV D75, iris set for 100 blasting a pure white screen.
The 675ES and 695ES will have the same light engine. My measurements were on the 675ES.

On my first bulb at 210 hours I measured 1816 lumens on high, 1111 lumens on low.
Bulb #2 at 0 hours 1645 high, 935 low.

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post #37 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 07:19 AM
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I hope the admins do a better job on this thread and kill any trolling on first contact. And remember, the light at the end of the tunnel, might be a dynamic iris.


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post #38 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Sorry if I am stating the obvious, but make sure that:

(1) You are calculating your lumens using 17:9 aspect ratio for your 'screen size' because this is the actual panel size, NOT 16:9

(2) Maximum Zoom

(3) The manual mechanical iris ('Lamp Iris') is set to '0'

(4) Dynamic Iris set to Manual (i.e. turned OFF)

(5) You are measuring off the lens at the screen, not off the screen

(6) You are measuring the centre of the screen

Does this change anything?

So yes to all of these, I was already following all of the above.

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How are you calculating your lumens? Did you take into account for the fact that your projector is a 17x9 panel and your screen might only be 16x9? What is your lux measurement on high and low and what is your screen dimensions in inches width/height?

Your formula for a 16x9 screen should be (width and height are in feet):
(lux / 10.76) x (width x height) x 1.0625
The 1.0625 is the 17x9 vs 16x9 conversion factor.

I use to take all my measurements on bright TV D75, iris set for 100 blasting a pure white screen.
The 675ES and 695ES will have the same light engine. My measurements were on the 675ES.

On my first bulb at 210 hours I measured 1816 lumens on high, 1111 lumens on low.
Bulb #2 at 0 hours 1645 high, 935 low.
I’m projecting from about 12 feet 3 inches and the projected image size for these measurements is 116.5 inches by 61.5 inches. This is the full 17:9 panel in max zoom. In Bright TV mode with D75, dynamic iris off, manual iris at max (100) and Contrast Enhancer set to off for maximum brightness, I get 310 lux in high lamp and 181 lux in low lamp. According to my calculations this is about 1433 lumens in high and 837 lumens in low.
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post #39 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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post #40 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jamnik View Post
So yes to all of these, I was already following all of the above.



I’m projecting from about 12 feet 3 inches and the projected image size for these measurements is 116.5 inches by 61.5 inches. This is the full 17:9 panel in max zoom. In Bright TV mode with D75, dynamic iris off, manual iris at max (100) and Contrast Enhancer set to off for maximum brightness, I get 310 lux in high lamp and 181 lux in low lamp. According to my calculations this is about 1433 lumens in high and 837 lumens in low.
Yea that's quite low. I think if it were me, I'd ride that out maybe using high lamp more than normal and replace the bulb when it gets too dim. Bulbs have a lot of variance. My "new" RS640 came with a bulb that was ~400 lumens dimmer than the one I replaced it with also. It's also quite possible that the dimmer bulb will hold steady for far longer than a new bulb that starts off brighter. If you're ok with the picture as is, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

The only other thing you could do is verify your iris is opening all the way. Go to the manual iris screen and move it from like 70 to 100 back and forth but stare into the projector (from the side so you don't get blinded). You will see the iris opening and closing. When opened, it should be perfectly round not diamond shaped. If it opens all the way no problem, then its your bulb and you can do the above and not worry. If it stays diamond shaped, you should get your projector replaced.

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post #41 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 05:46 PM
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Yea that's quite low. I think if it were me, I'd ride that out maybe using high lamp more than normal and replace the bulb when it gets too dim. Bulbs have a lot of variance. My "new" RS640 came with a bulb that was ~400 lumens dimmer than the one I replaced it with also. It's also quite possible that the dimmer bulb will hold steady for far longer than a new bulb that starts off brighter. If you're ok with the picture as is, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

The only other thing you could do is verify your iris is opening all the way. Go to the manual iris screen and move it from like 70 to 100 back and forth but stare into the projector (from the side so you don't get blinded). You will see the iris opening and closing. When opened, it should be perfectly round not diamond shaped. If it opens all the way no problem, then its your bulb and you can do the above and not worry. If it stays diamond shaped, you should get your projector replaced.
The iris does seem to open up all the way. The high lamp is bright enough but I was hoping the low lamp would be enough for my 112” 2.35 screen. I think I’m going to have it checked out since I noticed a couple of other issues, like flickering in certain cases which I posted in the 695 thread and the focus being kind of bad in the longest throw (min zoom) - the text looks cloudy/foggy at that end (which wasn’t too big of a deal on its own since I was using it at the max zoom most of the time).
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post #42 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 05:51 PM
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The iris does seem to open up all the way. The high lamp is bright enough but I was hoping the low lamp would be enough for my 112” 2.35 screen. I think I’m going to have it checked out since I noticed a couple of other issues, like flickering in certain cases which I posted in the 695 thread and the focus being kind of bad in the longest throw (min zoom) - the text looks cloudy/foggy at that end (which wasn’t too big of a deal on its own since I was using it at the max zoom most of the time).
The flickering on low is totally normal for Sony lamps. The recommendation by Sony on this is to run the bulb on high for 400 hours then try low. They don’t consider this a defect and won’t replace for it. Low lamp on Sony projectors is always low around 55% of high. Sucks. Always leaves you wanting between high and low lamp. The text issue could be caused by the processing or could be just how the lens is in that area. Probably also something Sony considers in spec.
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post #43 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 06:03 PM
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The flickering on low is totally normal for Sony lamps. The recommendation by Sony on this is to run the bulb on high for 400 hours then try low. They don’t consider this a defect and won’t replace for it. Low lamp on Sony projectors is always low around 55% of high. Sucks. Always leaves you wanting between high and low lamp. The text issue could be caused by the processing or could be just how the lens is in that area. Probably also something Sony considers in spec.
The flickering I noticed was actually in high lamp and only in certain color temps (like D75) and it seems to be related to the Contrast Enhancer setting. Yeah, I’m afraid they’ll consider everything in spec although 1450 lumens in high doesn’t seem very much in spec.
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post #44 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 06:08 PM
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The flickering I noticed was actually in high lamp and only in certain color temps (like D75) and it seems to be related to the Contrast Enhancer setting. Yeah, I’m afraid they’ll consider everything in spec although 1450 lumens in high doesn’t seem very much in spec.
You can contact your dealer and tell them you want a replacement bulb and see what happens.
The other issue is your meter may simply be way off. Many are up to 30% off. Most those meters are only good for measuring comparative measurements over time to see how the bulb ages. I think my meter is 4% too hot. I have based this on measuring many projectors with it and comparing those readings to the projector's spec.
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post #45 of 1793 Old 02-13-2019, 07:49 PM
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You can contact your dealer and tell them you want a replacement bulb and see what happens.
The other issue is your meter may simply be way off. Many are up to 30% off. Most those meters are only good for measuring comparative measurements over time to see how the bulb ages. I think my meter is 4% too hot. I have based this on measuring many projectors with it and comparing those readings to the projector's spec.
I did try a cheap $20 meter for comparison and that showed me about 20% less output. As for projector comparison I didn’t have much to compare it to but I did measure an old Panasonic (1600 lumens according to spec) with an 1100 hour bulb at about 1350 lumens max. I’ll see about getting a new bulb or just send it in to have it checked out. Thanks for the advice.
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post #46 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jamnik View Post
In Bright TV mode with D75, dynamic iris off, manual iris at max (100) and Contrast Enhancer set to off for maximum brightness, I get 310 lux in high lamp and 181 lux in low lamp. According to my calculations this is about 1433 lumens in high and 837 lumens in low.
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Yea that's quite low. Bulbs have a lot of variance.
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Here are the measurements from Gregory for the 570ES/695ES:
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
In which case, that's the luminance then

I have a brand new unit here so it will be interesting to see how this measures in comparison

Jamnik, you should be getting about 1570 calibrated lumens in high lamp and about 1150 to 1200 calibrated lumens using low lamp, on a new lamp.

Here's an interesting tidbit for you all --kind of a head-scratch'er for me. On my 695ES, after reaching the 200 hour mark, the image actually got brighter. Is that even possible? I measured contrast too and it was reading higher than when I first got the machine, presumably due to the higher top end reading. (By the way, I also had turned off the auto zone alignment in the service menu before that...but I don't see how that could be relevant to brightness increase.)

I'm using a Stewart Cima Neve 1.1 gain, 125 inch 2.35:1 from a throw of about 17 feet.
Nigel, for comparison's sake...as we await your findings , here are my numbers at the 200 hour mark.

Picture Mode: Cinema 2
Gamma: 2.2
SDR
Contrast Setting: 96
Brightness Setting: 50 (default)
ANSI Contrast: 420:1
Iris wide open/DI off, Full On/Full Off Contrast: 9,125:1
Iris Clamped down/DI off, Full on/Full Off Contrast: 19,000:1
DI turned on: I know the 695ES is spec'd at 350,000:1 with the dynamic iris engaged, but the best I could get was 77,180:1. My room is light controlled and blacks on my unit look very velvety; I have no complaints even coming from the black level reference, the older JVC, X990. And I have to add that the dynamic iris function on the 695ES is so invisible: no pumping, no brightness compression like on my past JVCs, and gamma tracks so well so that it doesn't melt away once the iris is doing its thing.

But the best thing about this projector, to me at least, aside from its three-dimensional look (high ANSI contrast maybe) and sharpness, is its processing of motion and motion handling in True Cinema. BRILLIANT!!!

I get the whole 300 lines thing. But on my past JVCs, for example, whenever there was fast motion sequences, I felt that motion was smooth but I was missing part of the content that was being somewhat smeared. Not so at all here. Hopefully the new JVCs are on par. I'm guessing it's the X1 processor and the responsiveness of the Sony panels that are helping here. Nigel, please test motion in true cinema too.

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Jamnik, you should be getting about 1570 calibrated lumens in high lamp and about 1150 to 1200 calibrated lumens using low lamp, on a new lamp.
This is actually not correct for Sony. They run their low lamp at 55% of high not 72% like JVC. If your calibrated setting yields 1570 on high, you'll see about 960 on low.

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This is actually not correct for Sony. They run their low lamp at 55% of high not 72% like JVC. If your calibrated setting yields 1570 on high, you'll see about 960 on low.
Interesting, so based on your calculations, my estimate would be 90 lumens lower than expected, in low lamp.
Do you think that that 55% figure is an exact science across all 695 units? Hmmm....I wonder. There's only one way to find out: Arrow (sorry)!!! ..please measure the Sonys for light percentage drop from high to low. Thank you.

EDIT: I can run an actual lux high/low calculation on mine when I have time with contrast at Max brightness and will use high bright. That should be crazy bright.
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Interesting, so based on your calculations, my estimate would be 90 lumens lower than expected, in low lamp.
Do you think that that 55% figure is an exact science across all 695 units? Hmmm....I wonder. There's only one way to find out: Arrow (sorry)!!! ..please measure the Sonys for light percentage drop from high to low. Thank you.

EDIT: I can run an actual lux high/low calculation on mine when I have time with contrast at Max brightness and will use high bright. That should be crazy bright.
Its held true on all the Sony's I've measured but the most specific is the 675ES. I'm sure that Sony has not made changes between the 675ES and 695ES on how they run the lamp. It just wasn't one of the changes on this model.

Edit: and it tracks with Jankik's measurements. His is 58% apart between high and low on his 695ES.

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This is actually not correct for Sony. They run their low lamp at 55% of high not 72% like JVC. If your calibrated setting yields 1570 on high, you'll see about 960 on low.
Okay, I also just looked at that chart that Enrico posted above and that person therein reported 1,598:1 high and over 1,200:1 low and 1673:1 high and again over 1200:1 low.
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post #51 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 06:17 PM
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Its held true on all the Sony's I've measured but the most specific is the 675ES. I'm sure that Sony has not made changes between the 675ES and 695ES on how they run the lamp. It just wasn't one of the changes on this model.

Edit: and it tracks with Jankik's measurements. His is 58% apart between high and low on his 695ES.
Mark, his is unusually low. Unless you're saying it's okay to deviate from 55% going up but not going down.
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post #52 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 06:21 PM
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Okay, I also just looked at that chart that Enrico posted above and that person therein reported 1,598:1 high and over 1,200:1 low and 1673:1 high and again over 1200:1 low.
Yea I don't believe that chart. It also has measurements like 1042 low 1150 high. It's all over the place.
The 55-58% low lamp on sony was the first complaint I had when I "upgraded" to sony last year. It was quite a deal breaker for running low lamp on the 285ES.

Also note that if Sony started running the 695ES higher powered on low lamp, it would have had to reduce the bulb life estimates. They didnt.

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post #53 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Mark, his is unusually low. Unless you're saying it's okay to deviate from 55% going up but not going down.
I don't think his chart is low. I find it right in line with my measurements. And his chart is very consistently 58% on all settings unlike that one in a foreign language that's just all over the place.
Have you measured yours?

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post #54 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I don't think his chart is low. I find it right in line with my measurements. And his chart is very consistently 58% on all settings unlike that one in a foreign language that's just all over the place.
Have you measured yours?
Everything I listed above was measured except for that brightness point I made to Jamnik, which as I was saying was based on estimation.

Right, so when I have time, I'll measure mine.
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post #55 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 06:46 PM
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In the meantime, everyone should keep in mind that Ekki measured the 570's full brightness at between 1720 lumens and 1870 lumens and between 1550 and 1620 lumens after calibration.

Last edited by Aztar35; 02-14-2019 at 06:55 PM.
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post #56 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 06:57 PM
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Okay, I also just looked at that chart that Enrico posted above and that person therein reported 1,598:1 high and over 1,200:1 low and 1673:1 high and again over 1200:1 low.
I measured my 295ES when I had 50 hours (I have now 87 hours) and on CinemaFilm 1 I got 1328 lumens on High Lamp and 952 on low lamp. I have CinemaFilm 1 set with Contrast on 80 and Brightness on 55. Art Feierman measurements for the 295ES are very similar to mine and he is reporting a 29% drop of lumen output for any color mode going from high lamp to low lamp. Looks like these new Sonys have a lower drop on lumen output compared to previous years models.

https://www.projectorreviews.com/son...ce/#brightness
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post #57 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 07:03 PM
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I measured my 295ES when I had 50 hours (I have now 87 hours) and on CinemaFilm 1 I got 1328 lumens on High Lamp and 952 on low lamp. I have CinemaFilm 1 set with Contrast on 80 and Brightness on 55. Art Feierman measurements for the 295ES are very similar to mine and he is reporting a 29% drop of lumen output for any color mode going from high lamp to low lamp. Looks like these new Sonys have a lower drop on lumen output compared to previous years models.

https://www.projectorreviews.com/son...ce/#brightness

Thanks, Enrico. You just saved me from taking the time to measure that. It's visibly plenty bright in low lamp and that's how I run it, so I didn't bother. Lol. But does that mean Mark's theory inferred from his experience with the Sonys is now thrown out the window, or should Nigel still test for the difference?
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post #58 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 07:03 PM
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The lamps on the Sonys probably don't technically get brighter, but what happens is the distribution of the lumens changes on some lamps over time.
Hence, some parts of the lamp become brighter, so given the 9-point measurement is still pretty spaced out, it can give inaccurate readings when lamps have altering bright white uniformity over time at certain spots.

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post #59 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 07:06 PM
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The lamps on the Sonys probably don't technically get brighter, but what happens is the distribution of the lumens on the screen changes on some lamps over time.
Hence, some parts of the screen become brighter, so given the 9-point measurement is still pretty spaced out, it can give inaccurate readings when lamps have altering bright white uniformity over time at certain spots.
That's something I didn't think about.
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post #60 of 1793 Old 02-14-2019, 07:06 PM
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That's something I didn't think about.
It's just a theory, but I'm assuming that is what happens, though I don't have absolute proof.

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