The 2019 Model SONY vs JVC Projectors Comparison Thread - Page 61 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:43 AM
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Its a very nice idea in theory, I wish many more consumer electronic products were like this, though it does actually exist in some products - think Lumagen or Trinnov - but they tend to be niche products that that are sold with that future development as part of their USP, and the price tends to be high, as it needs to be to cover all that future development cost. However there in lies the rub, they are niche because of that higher price, because many folks aren't prepared to make the investment up front for those years of development, and instead baulk at the initial buy-in price.

So instead those consumers select a product based more on price, which drives the manufacturers to compete on price, and leads to the release of incremental new models year after year in an attempt to attract more customer spending at that lower price point. Its a vicious cycle, and I wouldn't necessarily rate the survival chances of any manufacturer that tried to break that cycle with a fully upgradable product.
Well, I think if nothing else projectors are ripe for this sort of eco system. They are niche also are they not? (Not talking about the Epson's of this world and all they sell to educational establishments etc).

Make a modular base unit, then let the customer choose the lens and light source etc. Make the processing board be easily replaceable.

Then charge for system updates to improve the unit as time goes on. More profit on software than hardware development I would guess.

If hardware requirements move on, swap the board and leave your main hardware alone. Especially if you chose a high end lens from day one etc.

I can dream I suppose!

Also, are they not high priced because they are niche? Chicken and egg situation there I think.

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Old 05-21-2019, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Also, are they not high priced because they are niche? Chicken and egg situation there I think.
No, they are high priced (in the case of Trinnov and Lumagen) because they have to build in that future development cost, they plan for their products to be supported in excess of 10 years (at a guess). So that's by design, they know they are not planning to sell a customer a new unit three years later, they plan to develop the unit the customer already owns.

Prime example is Trinnov owners will be getting the new DTS:X Pro upgrade FOC later this year via a software update. Every other SSP owner will likely need to sell their SSP and buy a new model to get it. Or with Lumagen's dynamic tone mapping; rolled out to owners for free, despite never being on the initial spec list when the Radiance Pro was released.

The question is, in your theoretical projector scenario, would you be prepared to pay two or three times what you paid for your 760ES, to 'invest' in such an upgradable platform?
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:27 AM
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No, they are high priced (in the case of Trinnov and Lumagen) because they have to build in that future development cost, they plan for their products to be supported in excess of 10 years (at a guess). So that's by design, they know they are not planning to sell a customer a new unit three years later, they plan to develop the unit the customer already owns.

Prime example is Trinnov owners will be getting the new DTS:X Pro upgrade FOC later this year via a software update. Every other SSP owner will likely need to sell their SSP and buy a new model to get it. Or with Lumagen's dynamic tone mapping; rolled out to owners for free, despite never being on the initial spec list when the Radiance Pro was released.

The question is, in your theoretical projector scenario, would you be prepared to pay two or three times what you paid for your 760ES, to 'invest' in such an upgradable platform?
That is pure speculation as to the cost of any mooted platform.
But that is why modular works so well, you can pick and choose you initial parts to your own spec on a basic platform, a bit like a car.

Would I pay more? Yes, if doing so means I wouldn't be wondering what to do with my unit the next time something comes along that would require changing the whole unit. (To get a working iris for example).
I would be able to buy the iris upgrade (or get it enabled in software for a small sum).

To know my unit would be up-to-date in 10 years as things move on is something I would like. It is so wasteful to almost junk nigh on worthless units after a few years use when they still have so many parts in them that could be used.

They have to develop the base hardware anyway, so doing it in a way that means you can keep it working for longer with fewer parts needing to be developed down the line seems to be would be a cost saving.

They need to make sure the base chassis/platform is excellent quality and then it would work.

Making things as disposable as they are now is unsustainable.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:16 PM
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I am sure you are correct but the small changes with the corrected issues may be enough of an improvement. It will also be interesting to see what Sony does since they only made small changes last year. JVC often has special CEDIA pricing and that may be enough to offset the value of the free bulb. I know of a few people who have been waiting for the 2000/NX7 for a long time and if I was in their shoes I might consider waiting. I would also expect that there will be a nice supply of B stock units soon considering what has happened.
Well, time will tell for sure....... A manufacturer can do what ever they like, we will see
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:58 PM
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Spoiler!

I guess you must still be bogged down with several other projects. Or, should we not expect any comparisons for this cycle of projectors?
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Old 06-05-2019, 02:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
No, they are high priced (in the case of Trinnov and Lumagen) because they have to build in that future development cost, they plan for their products to be supported in excess of 10 years (at a guess). So that's by design, they know they are not planning to sell a customer a new unit three years later, they plan to develop the unit the customer already owns.

Prime example is Trinnov owners will be getting the new DTS:X Pro upgrade FOC later this year via a software update. Every other SSP owner will likely need to sell their SSP and buy a new model to get it. Or with Lumagen's dynamic tone mapping; rolled out to owners for free, despite never being on the initial spec list when the Radiance Pro was released.

The question is, in your theoretical projector scenario, would you be prepared to pay two or three times what you paid for your 760ES, to 'invest' in such an upgradable platform?
Well as far as the entire north American continent including both the United States and Canada is concerned they are indeed already paying considerably higher pricing for all SONY projectors

Sooooo, all such owners, as per Trinnov and Lumagen, should therefore be entitled to upgrades with respect to their projectors FOC, shouldn't they?

And this should include all SONY 885/760ES owners having the dynamic iris enabled FOC via firmware update and also the Digital Focus Optimizer (DFO) also enabled FOC via firmware update as well... Plus all such owners of all pre-existing models of SONY projectors should be able to have the video processing chipset upgraded FOC to SONY's new X1 Ultimate Chipset that is the latest up-to-date chipset which features within SONY's TVs

Because otherwise they are simply paying a whole load of extra money for no valid reason whatsoever other than to line SONYs pockets, and you'd have this crazy unfair situation wherein people are being geographically penalized and paying significantly more money for exactly the same thing as compared with other countries, without any valid reason whatsoever... Oh wait...

[EDIT: Except for the SONY 5000ES that is, which, unlike the rest of the range, is the same equivalent price as other countries in the world for some reason. Go figure! ]


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Old 06-05-2019, 02:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess you must still be bogged down with several other projects. Or, should we not expect any comparisons for this cycle of projectors?
Yes, I am still bogged down with several other projectors. However, I will most certainly be continuing to carry out further projectors comparisons, wherein I have carried out some already.

I will be completing as much as I can before IFA 2019 and CEDIA 2019 in September. I will shortly have further windows of time within which I will be able to do so.

Also worth noting that I have now just received delivery of my JVC RS2000/N7 projectors almost ONE YEAR after I placed the order with JVC, so I would not have been able to do the comparisons involving this projector even if I did have the free time availability.

In short, I allocated a month for carrying out these comparisons and the JVC delay totally screwed up my plans, so I have had to fit it in around work stuff

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Old 06-05-2019, 03:23 AM
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Yes, I am still bogged down with several other projectors. However, I will most certainly be continuing to carry out further projectors comparisons, wherein I have carried out some already. Wherein, I will be completing as much as I can before IFA 2019 and CEDIA 2019 in September. I will shortly have further windows of time within which I will be able to do so. Also worth noting that I have now just received delivery of my JVC RS2000/N7 projectors almost ONE YEAR after I placed the order with JVC, so I would not have been able to do the comparisons involving this projector even if I did have the free time availability. In short, I allocated a month for carrying out these comparisons and the JVC delay totally screwed up my plans, so I have had to fit it in around work stuff

Might as well wait for the NEW updated JVC units that wont be far away!
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Old 06-05-2019, 03:37 AM
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Might as well wait for the NEW updated JVC units that wont be far away!
I be surprised if JVC does a refresh this year of these units. If they did, they'd get a lot of negative backlash from those that just received their preorders from last sept. It doesn't seem to be in their best interest to maintain highest profits.
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Old 06-05-2019, 04:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Might as well wait for the NEW updated JVC units that wont be far away!
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I be surprised if JVC does a refresh this year of these units. If they did, they'd get a lot of negative backlash from those that just received their preorders from last sept. It doesn't seem to be in their best interest to maintain highest profits.
Yes, the latest word is that there won't be any refresh from JVC this year

Worth bearing in mind that not all of the backorders in the UK and Europe have been filled yet...

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Old 06-05-2019, 08:19 AM
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Yes, the latest word is that there won't be any refresh from JVC this year

Worth bearing in mind that not all of the backorders in the UK and Europe have been filled yet...

I mean... technically there wasn't a refresh from JVC last year either. So... new models January 1st 2020?
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:01 AM
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Worth bearing in mind that not all of the backorders in the UK and Europe have been filled yet...
If they didn't have to deliver a second or third unit, they might already be done.

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Old 06-05-2019, 09:14 AM
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I mean... technically there wasn't a refresh from JVC last year either. So... new models January 1st 2020?
Probably Cedia 2020.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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