The 2019 Model SONY vs JVC Projectors Comparison Thread - Page 98 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2911 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
You forgot to mention the gamma droop of the entire JVC e-shift series, it was the worst for gamma droop actually. Up to 1500 hours it required constant adjustment to correct gamma droop, I believe the very reason they included the software for correction otherwise a calibrator would have a path worn to your door . Every last one needed a correction every 250-300 hours to keep them on track , wonder how the new series will fair, time will tell. Both mine followed this same trend as did my friends, down to 1.9 in 250 hours following calibration . My VW675 in comparison needed adjustment just once . Panels issues have long been a ghost of the past, but some just love to keep bringing it up.
That doesn't seem right.

I calibrated a friends RS600 who had put well over 5000 hours on the unit over the 3 years and when set to 2.2 gamma, was measuring 2.0 at the worst. If it was drooping every 250 hours that would only be quite a small amount every 250 hours to only droop 0.2 after more than 5000.

On another friends HW55ES it measured between 1.6-1.8 gamma when set to 2.2 after a similar amount of hours. Unless you think it really drooped that far all at once early in its life?
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post #2912 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
That doesn't seem right.

I calibrated a friends RS600 who had put well over 5000 hours on the unit over the 3 years and when set to 2.2 gamma, was measuring 2.0 at the worst. If it was drooping every 250 hours that would only be quite a small amount every 250 hours to only droop 0.2 after more than 5000.

On another friends HW55ES it measured between 1.6-1.8 gamma when set to 2.2 after a similar amount of hours. Unless you think it really drooped that far all at once early in its life?
I agree. That is not what calibrators have reported, after calibrating 100's of units.
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post #2913 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 11:39 AM
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[QUOTE=SirMaster;58752776]That doesn't seem right.

I calibrated a friends RS600 who had put well over 5000 hours on the unit over the 3 years and when set to 2.2 gamma, was measuring 2.0 at the worst. If it was drooping every 250 hours that would only be quite a small amount every 250 hours to only droop 0.2 after more than 5000.



It's absolutely right, discussed and understood well withing the community here. It would seem some have selective memories it would seem . Ekki had calibrated hundreds of units and he was the one that made this quite clear , both mine and numerous friends with the same had the exact same issue . Once the projector reaches something in the vicinity of 1200-1500 hours the problem literally returns to average, but up to that point it was a well documented issue where gamma droop required constant adjustment often to keep these units in spec .

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post #2914 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I agree. That is not what calibrators have reported, after calibrating 100's of units.

You seem to remember gamma droop on degrading Sony panels from an issue that is years old, now totally irrelevant yet you forget this fundamental reality of gamma droop with JVC . Hmmmm, that seems odd .

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post #2915 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 11:49 AM
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[quote=roxiedog13;58753122]
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
That doesn't seem right.

I calibrated a friends RS600 who had put well over 5000 hours on the unit over the 3 years and when set to 2.2 gamma, was measuring 2.0 at the worst. If it was drooping every 250 hours that would only be quite a small amount every 250 hours to only droop 0.2 after more than 5000.



It's absolutely right, discussed and understood well withing the community here. It would seem some have selective memories it would seem . Ekki had calibrated hundreds of units and he was the one that made this quite clear , both mine and numerous friends with the same had the exact same issue . Once the projector reaches something in the vicinity of 1200-1500 hours the problem literally returns to average, but up to that point it was a well documented issue where gamma droop required constant adjustment often to keep these units in spec .
Fair enough. My sample size is not huge, but I have calibrated 2 RS400, 1 RS540, 1 RS600, 1 RS620, all over 1000 hours, none were below 2.0 gamma when set to 2.2

I have also calibrated Sony ES50, ES55, 2 ES40 and 2 ES45, all were around 1.6-1.8 gamma when set to 2.2, again all over 1000 hours.
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post #2916 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
... It's absolutely right, discussed and understood well withing the community here. It would seem some have selective memories it would seem . Ekki had calibrated hundreds of units and he was the one that made this quite clear , both mine and numerous friends with the same had the exact same issue . Once the projector reaches something in the vicinity of 1200-1500 hours the problem literally returns to average, but up to that point it was a well documented issue where gamma droop required constant adjustment often to keep these units in spec .
Chad did mine at 200ish hours. I'm closing in on 1400 and i'm planning to do the touch up, but have been procrastinating. I can see some minor droop coming back in the way a smokey scene is rendered, but it is not nearly as bad as the initial droop, so I'm too lazy to fuss.

Trying to recall, was it gamma that CMD "on" effects, or WB/grayscale track?

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post #2917 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 12:03 PM
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I never use CMD so I am not sure if it affects gamma or grayscale. It surely shouldn't though. But that doesn't mean for sure it doesn't.
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post #2918 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
That doesn't seem right.

I calibrated a friends RS600 who had put well over 5000 hours on the unit over the 3 years and when set to 2.2 gamma, was measuring 2.0 at the worst. If it was drooping every 250 hours that would only be quite a small amount every 250 hours to only droop 0.2 after more than 5000.

On another friends HW55ES it measured between 1.6-1.8 gamma when set to 2.2 after a similar amount of hours. Unless you think it really drooped that far all at once early in its life?
I had a HW55ES that by the end would only do 1.6 using the 2.6 setting lol. Sent it in to Sony and they replaced it with a 65ES, which I used for a year and a half before my RS2000. That feeling in the back of your mind of , will this degrade sucks ass let me tell ya.
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post #2919 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 01:40 PM
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I have no idea why reviewers are reviewing the n9 and n5 and forgetting about the n7 in the middle it is THE pick I reckon the sweet spot of the jvc range ...
Like I had said, Chad actually had the NX7, he fully tested it early on when he had a 695ES in the house, but he did not post the review because it was pretty much the NX9 review.......
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post #2920 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 01:50 PM
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Like I had said, Chad actually had the NX7, he fully tested it early on when he had a 695ES in the house, but he did not post the review because it was pretty much the NX9 review.......
Where can one find Chad's reviews?
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post #2921 of 2958 Old 10-30-2019, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
You forgot to mention the gamma droop of the entire JVC e-shift series, it was the worst for gamma droop actually. Up to 1500 hours it required constant adjustment to correct gamma droop, I believe the very reason they included the software for correction otherwise a calibrator would have a path worn to your door . Every last one needed a correction every 250-300 hours to keep them on track , wonder how the new series will fair, time will tell. Both mine followed this same trend as did my friends, down to 1.9 in 250 hours following calibration . My VW675 in comparison needed adjustment just once . Panels issues have long been a ghost of the past, but some just love to keep bringing it up.
Hi, Roxiedog!...it's been a while. Yeah, I recall on my 695, I didn't notice any droop during my ownership of it and that the gamma on my past JVCs was corrected via Autocal after a few hundred hours of use. I have the NX7 now and I'll be looking out for gamma droop for sure. I like the NX7 but it isn't artifact-free. I do have a touch of the bright corners. Also, blue was out horizontally about a half pixel before convergence adjustment. As far as the NX7's dynamic iris...well I told myself I wasn't going to talk about that, for a while at least.

I sometimes miss some of the processing features on the 695 as well as its True Cinema motion mode.

Thanks for your post!
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post #2922 of 2958 Old 11-01-2019, 03:38 PM
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As far as the NX7's dynamic iris...well I told myself I wasn't going to talk about that, for a while at least.
Dare I ask..... What is up with the dynamic iris?

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post #2923 of 2958 Old 11-01-2019, 03:52 PM
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Dare I ask..... What is up with the dynamic iris?
I just didn't want to discuss mine. You can see the related discussions in the new JVC owners' thread and new JVC HDR update thread; and basically there's also a number of people reporting wacky things with the dynamic iris on the NX5/RS1000 and NX7/RS2000 like blown out highlights, severe gamma manipulation, and yellowing of white text.
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post #2924 of 2958 Old 11-02-2019, 06:28 AM
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I just didn't want to discuss mine. You can see the related discussions in the new JVC owners' thread and new JVC HDR update thread; and basically there's also a number of people reporting wacky things with the dynamic iris on the NX5/RS1000 and NX7/RS2000 like blown out highlights, severe gamma manipulation, and yellowing of white text.
I see. Oh dear

Hmm, so many rip into Sony's foibles, but you don't get to hear too much about the JVC issues unless you are brave enough to dip into one of their threads...

With this many issues with 4k projectors I can see that any 8k machines will be a LONG time to market!

Not that anyone really needs 8k, unless sitting super close or has a super huge screen anyway.

I hope you get to where you want to be.

Cheers.
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post #2925 of 2958 Old 11-02-2019, 06:32 AM
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I'd just add that the NX9 has a usable BT2020 filter (~8% hit) for increased color coverage and the current bulbs have shown surprising longevity as far as how long they are able to maintain high lumen output. Some have seen less than 10% drop in over a 1000 hrs.

That doesn't mean the RS4500 isn't still going to have all the advantages the laser brings. Just saying the NX9 isn't going to go dim overnight and the color filter is a nice option.
Current bulbs are *fantastic* for longevity as long as you run them in low lamp. If you plan to run them in high lamp, they do not hold up well and will drop much more than 10% in 1000 hours
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post #2926 of 2958 Old 11-02-2019, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
You forgot to mention the gamma droop of the entire JVC e-shift series, it was the worst for gamma droop actually. Up to 1500 hours it required constant adjustment to correct gamma droop, I believe the very reason they included the software for correction otherwise a calibrator would have a path worn to your door . Every last one needed a correction every 250-300 hours to keep them on track , wonder how the new series will fair, time will tell. Both mine followed this same trend as did my friends, down to 1.9 in 250 hours following calibration . My VW675 in comparison needed adjustment just once . Panels issues have long been a ghost of the past, but some just love to keep bringing it up.
I ran auto cal on both my RS500 and my RS640 and neither ever needed any adjustment. The RS500 went over 6000 hours and was still perfect. I only owned the RS640 for about 1500 hours and it never needed adjustment either. At least the JVC gamma droop can be adjusted though. The sony panel degradation cannot be adjusted out and you end up with a far raised black floor. But I suppose that's ok cause Sony doesn't really value the black floor to begin with and most sony users think its all good as they'll defend it vehemently if you bring it up.
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post #2927 of 2958 Old 11-02-2019, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I see. Oh dear

Hmm, so many rip into Sony's foibles, but you don't get to hear too much about the JVC issues unless you are brave enough to dip into one of their threads...

With this many issues with 4k projectors I can see that any 8k machines will be a LONG time to market!

Not that anyone really needs 8k, unless sitting super close or has a super huge screen anyway.

I hope you get to where you want to be.

Cheers.
Thanks. My DI works fine ..just pointing out that some are having issues with theirs.

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I ran auto cal on both my RS500 and my RS640 and neither ever needed any adjustment. The RS500 went over 6000 hours and was still perfect. I only owned the RS640 for about 1500 hours and it never needed adjustment either. At least the JVC gamma droop can be adjusted though. The sony panel degradation cannot be adjusted out and you end up with a far raised black floor. But I suppose that's ok cause Sony doesn't really value the black floor to begin with and most sony users think its all good as they'll defend it vehemently if you bring it up.
Hi, Mark. Right, I like that autocal can correct droop easily. Okay, so on your other point, I'm no longer a Sony user, but I do recall reading that Sony already addressed concerns and introduced the five prophylactic safeguards against panel degradation. And since I've heard no reports of it from owners of the more recent Sony models, I do think panel degradation is a thing of the past.
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post #2928 of 2958 Old 11-02-2019, 07:36 AM
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Thanks. My DI works fine ..just pointing out that some are having issues with theirs.



Hi, Mark. Right, I like that autocal can correct droop easily. Okay, so on your other point, I'm no longer a Sony user, but I do recall reading that Sony already addressed concerns and introduced the five prophylactic safeguards against panel degradation. And since I've heard no reports of it from owners of the more recent Sony models, I do think panel degradation is a thing of the past.
Yea, it could be solved. But it's tough to know because Sony denied that there ever was a problem. So being that they think there was never a problem, you cant trust that they fixed it. If they admitted that there was a problem and stated it's now fixed, I think most of us would have a lot more confidence in it being solved. Part of the thing is you can never trust if its fixed on a new projector because it might just be that not enough time has elapsed for it to surface as the projectors are pretty new still.
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post #2929 of 2958 Old 11-02-2019, 07:50 AM
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Hi, Mark. Right, I like that autocal can correct droop easily. Okay, so on your other point, I'm no longer a Sony user, but I do recall reading that Sony already addressed concerns and introduced the five prophylactic safeguards against panel degradation. And since I've heard no reports of it from owners of the more recent Sony models, I do think panel degradation is a thing of the past.
I'm not sure there is strong evidence. Seems like most folk who were willing / capable of measuring and tracking these sort of things have moved on so there is very little data for anything published these days for current Sony models.

I tend to disregard anything engineering wise that I can't measure myself and that a company isn't prepared to discuss openly and frankly with details and numbers. Sony, by virtue of just whispering stuff in the ears of a few folk, are definitely guilty of that here.
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Yea, it could be solved. But it's tough to know because Sony denied that there ever was a problem. So being that they think there was never a problem, you cant trust that they fixed it. If they admitted that there was a problem and stated it's now fixed, I think most of us would have a lot more confidence in it being solved. Part of the thing is you can never trust if its fixed on a new projector because it might just be that not enough time has elapsed for it to surface as the projectors are pretty new still.
Sony lost a class action lawsuit because of engine block deterioration in the SXRD RPTV. They are lucky it didn't happen to them for FP.
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post #2931 of 2958 Old 11-02-2019, 12:14 PM
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Sony lost a class action lawsuit because of engine block deterioration in the SXRD RPTV. They are lucky it didn't happen to them for FP.
Not enough customers who would ever notice the issue to make it worth the lawyer's while.
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post #2932 of 2958 Old 11-02-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I see. Oh dear

Hmm, so many rip into Sony's foibles, but you don't get to hear too much about the JVC issues unless you are brave enough to dip into one of their threads...

With this many issues with 4k projectors I can see that any 8k machines will be a LONG time to market!

Not that anyone really needs 8k, unless sitting super close or has a super huge screen anyway.

I hope you get to where you want to be.

Cheers.
You have it completely backwards. He has been talking about not seeing the issues that people have been complaining about and several posters keep telling him the issues are there and that he is just not seeing them. Believe me, people have no problem talking about issues on a JVC in the JVC threads.
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post #2933 of 2958 Old 11-04-2019, 06:54 AM
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You have it completely backwards. He has been talking about not seeing the issues that people have been complaining about and several posters keep telling him the issues are there and that he is just not seeing them. Believe me, people have no problem talking about issues on a JVC in the JVC threads.
Thanks for the info, but it has already been mentioned that was the case.

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post #2934 of 2958 Old 11-05-2019, 03:48 PM
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Current bulbs are *fantastic* for longevity as long as you run them in low lamp. If you plan to run them in high lamp, they do not hold up well and will drop much more than 10% in 1000 hours
Haven't seen that reported. A friends RS500 with ~1500 hrs that sees mixed usage had great stability (measured around 10% loss). My RS520 was about halfway to the 1000hr mark when I sold it and was plenty bright with mixed usage, but I never put a meter on it. I'm sure it varies with how many lamp strikes are in that usage too.

Laser is undoubtedly better, but the new JVC bulbs do seem to hold up well. Be interesting to see with more and more high lamp usage where the new ones fall in a year or so.

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post #2935 of 2958 Old 11-05-2019, 04:02 PM
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Haven't seen that reported. A friends RS500 with ~1500 hrs that sees mixed usage had great stability (measured around 10% loss). My RS520 was about halfway to the 1000hr mark when I sold it and was plenty bright with mixed usage, but I never put a meter on it. I'm sure it varies with how many lamp strikes are in that usage too.

Laser is undoubtedly better, but the new JVC bulbs do seem to hold up well. Be interesting to see with more and more high lamp usage where the new ones fall in a year or so.
I'm just shy of 1400 hrs on my x990 and there are still plenty of low lamp lumens for SDR and HDR on a 128" 2.35 1.3 gain screen, at minimum throw and iris = 0. No need to start running high lamp or swap in a new lamp yet.
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post #2936 of 2958 Old 11-06-2019, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
Haven't seen that reported. A friends RS500 with ~1500 hrs that sees mixed usage had great stability (measured around 10% loss). My RS520 was about halfway to the 1000hr mark when I sold it and was plenty bright with mixed usage, but I never put a meter on it. I'm sure it varies with how many lamp strikes are in that usage too.

Laser is undoubtedly better, but the new JVC bulbs do seem to hold up well. Be interesting to see with more and more high lamp usage where the new ones fall in a year or so.
I have not seen that either. We already have many long time reports on this bulb, since it is the same bulb since November 2015 in all the lamp based DILA projectors.
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post #2937 of 2958 Old 11-12-2019, 04:51 AM
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I think this is the best place to post this.

http://cine4home.de/dynamisches-hdr-...b06b-149131737

It is in German so your translator of choice is your friend.
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post #2938 of 2958 Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I think this is the best place to post this.

http://cine4home.de/dynamisches-hdr-...b06b-149131737

It is in German so your translator of choice is your friend.

Watching this video it seems the JVC N series also has the gamma droop typical on the e-shift X series that I mentioned earlier . The projectors were calibrated with other known professional in attendance. Ekki came to this original determination with the X series after going through hundreds of projectors, his reports are based on massive amounts of tests conducted as part of his business ,it's not based on a simple good sample. This is the guy that has been that has uncovered and posted nearly every relevant issue for all projectors . He shows pros and cons for all, regardless of manufacturer doesn't discriminate.
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post #2939 of 2958 Old Yesterday, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I think this is the best place to post this.

http://cine4home.de/dynamisches-hdr-...b06b-149131737

It is in German so your translator of choice is your friend.
How does one go about translating such a review?
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post #2940 of 2958 Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
I think this is the best place to post this.

http://cine4home.de/dynamisches-hdr-...b06b-149131737

It is in German so your translator of choice is your friend. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG][IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
How does one go about translating such a review?
If your open it in google chrome you should get a pop up asking if you would like to translate it.
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