The BENQ HT9060 & LK990 In-Depth Reviews & Comparison Thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #301 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
The secrets review did not attempt to provide a controlled brightness measurement comparison with various picture modes, so I would disregard "all the math" calculations attempted as there are too many variables that could have affected the output. For instance, if he was using SmartEco or Eco modes, in past BenQ projectors these modes have reduced peak brightness by as much as 30%. And on this particular projector where SmartEco apparently is not very effective with real world content per owners, its probably best left off anyway for HDR/3D content for best PQ.

Projector Reviews actually did controlled brightness measurements in all the modes, and found 1578 lumens mid-zoom in DCI-P3 mode (again, this would be about 1700 min zoom) in full power mode. Therefore, since the HT9060 uses the same lightsource and lens, I find this a much more reliable estimation of its brightness capabilities.
From Secrets:

"Light Output & Contrast
All luminance values are expressed here in nits, also known as candelas per square meter (cd/m²). For those needing a frame of reference, 1fL equals 3.43 nits, or 1 nit equals .29fL.

The HT9060 throws off the stigma of dim LED projectors with plenty of output in all light modes. After calibration, with the lamp in Normal mode, the peak white was 212.614 nits, black was .2079 nit, and the contrast ratio was 1022.8:1. This is the projector’s native contrast ratio.

Reducing the lamp to its Economic mode takes the white level down to 150.1421 nits with a similar contrast ratio of 1015.7:1.

The best way to run the HT9060 is in the SmartEco mode. Then, the LED is varied dynamically to maximize contrast. I measured a peak white of 213.8895 nits, a black level of .0475 nit, and a contrast ratio of 4505.1:1.

HDR performance was similar with a peak white of 210.3494 nits, a black level of .0483 nit, and a static contrast ratio of 4356.7:1

The HT9060 is great for 3D material with a peak white of 21.0878 nits, a black level of .0111 nit, and a contrast ratio of 1903.8:1

Maximum output can be found in the Vivid mode with 230.2298 nits peak, .048 nit black, and 4797:1 contrast. It should be noted that gamma is less accurate in this mode making it unsuitable for critical viewing."


Normal mode 212.614 nits
SmartEco mode 213.8895 nits
Economic mode 150.1421 nits
Maximum output in vivid mode 230.2298 nits

Projector was less than a foot from minimum throw onto his 92" diagonal 1.3 gain screen. Max lumens on this unit was less than 1,200 lumens and the difference with SmarEco on was hardly any change.
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post #302 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
From Secrets:

"Light Output & Contrast
All luminance values are expressed here in nits, also known as candelas per square meter (cd/m²). For those needing a frame of reference, 1fL equals 3.43 nits, or 1 nit equals .29fL.

The HT9060 throws off the stigma of dim LED projectors with plenty of output in all light modes. After calibration, with the lamp in Normal mode, the peak white was 212.614 nits, black was .2079 nit, and the contrast ratio was 1022.8:1. This is the projector’s native contrast ratio.

Reducing the lamp to its Economic mode takes the white level down to 150.1421 nits with a similar contrast ratio of 1015.7:1.

The best way to run the HT9060 is in the SmartEco mode. Then, the LED is varied dynamically to maximize contrast. I measured a peak white of 213.8895 nits, a black level of .0475 nit, and a contrast ratio of 4505.1:1.

HDR performance was similar with a peak white of 210.3494 nits, a black level of .0483 nit, and a static contrast ratio of 4356.7:1

The HT9060 is great for 3D material with a peak white of 21.0878 nits, a black level of .0111 nit, and a contrast ratio of 1903.8:1

Maximum output can be found in the Vivid mode with 230.2298 nits peak, .048 nit black, and 4797:1 contrast. It should be noted that gamma is less accurate in this mode making it unsuitable for critical viewing."


Normal mode 212.614 nits
SmartEco mode 213.8895 nits
Economic mode 150.1421 nits
Maximum output in vivid mode 230.2298 nits

Projector was less than a foot from minimum throw onto his 92" diagonal 1.3 gain screen. Max lumens on this unit was less than 1,200 lumens and the difference with SmarEco on was hardly any change.
Secrets author also stated the HT9060 was the overall best projector they've ever reviewed and that it was sharper than the RS4500. As you are endorsing the Secrets results, I assume you also agree with those statements?

Regarding the brightness, that lumens measurement does not match up with previous measurements of the HT9050 which uses identical lightsource and lens. So I'd take that with a grain of salt.
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post #303 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Secrets author also stated the HT9060 was the overall best projector they've ever reviewed and that it was sharper than the RS4500. As you are endorsing the Secrets results, I assume you also agree with those statements?

Regarding the brightness, that lumens measurement does not match up with previous measurements of the HT9050 which uses identical lightsource and lens. So I'd take that with a grain of salt.
I am not endorsing anything. I just showed what that review measured. As for sharpness, I have no problem believing the 9060 could be sharper than the RS4500. The 4500 has three panels, 9060 is single chip.

As for single chip DLP, it will be a little more exciting next week. You will have something new to talk about.
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post #304 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
l
As for single chip DLP, it will be a little more exciting next week. You will have something new to talk about.
Good. I want to buy one by year end (solid state of course) so more options is better.

Personally I've been very surprised that Delta/Vivitek/DPI has basically handed over the $3k-$15k market to Coretonic , and pretty much handed over the under $3k market as well. Hoping to see a new delta design as they made some of the best 1080p DLPs under $25k.

Would be interesting if JVC put one out too but not with that 0.47dmd and budget chassis they used on their first outing.

Last edited by Ruined; 03-25-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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post #305 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Secrets author also stated the HT9060 was the overall best projector they've ever reviewed and that it was sharper than the RS4500. As you are endorsing the Secrets results, I assume you also agree with those statements?

Regarding the brightness, that lumens measurement does not match up with previous measurements of the HT9050 which uses identical lightsource and lens. So I'd take that with a grain of salt.
Interesting review. I always wondered why LED seemed to stagnate. Good to see it's not dead as a light source, and it's brighter.
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post #306 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I am not endorsing anything. I just showed what that review measured. As for sharpness, I have no problem believing the 9060 could be sharper than the RS4500. The 4500 has three panels, 9060 is single chip.

As for single chip DLP, it will be a little more exciting next week. You will have something new to talk about.
Oo, can you share more?
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post #307 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Interesting review. I always wondered why LED seemed to stagnate. Good to see it's not dead as a light source, and it's brighter.
Still greatly enjoying my vivitek h9090 rgb LED for SDR, but need something with more brightness for HDR / 3D.

I intend to buy new solid state before end of year,.can't right now as will likely be building whole new theater shortly.
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post #308 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Good. I want to buy one by year end (solid state of course) so more options is better.

Personally I've been very surprised that Delta/Vivitek/DPI has basically handed over the $3k-$15k market to Coretonic , and pretty much handed over the under $3k market as well. Hoping to see a new delta design as they made some of the best 1080p DLPs under $25k.

Would be interesting if JVC put one out too but not with that 0.47dmd and budget chassis they used on their first outing.
Not talking about anything JVC related. More DLP industry wide.
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post #309 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 12:35 PM
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Not talking about anything JVC related. More DLP industry wide.
Hmm let me speculate, 0.95" native 4k DMD ? Still waiting on that one from TI ...
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post #310 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Still greatly enjoying my vivitek h9090 rgb LED for SDR, but need something with more brightness for HDR / 3D.

I intend to buy new solid state before end of year,.can't right now as will likely be building whole new theater shortly.
I am curious - what size and format screen are you planning for your new home theater?
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post #311 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 01:35 PM
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I am curious - what size and format screen are you planning forced your new home theater?
Actually don't know yet haven't gotten that far, will depend on the new space what makes most sense.
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post #312 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post

As for single chip DLP, it will be a little more exciting next week. You will have something new to talk about.
Cool. In what sense will it be exciting? 4k dlp with a better contrast?
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post #313 of 1883 Old 03-25-2019, 04:22 PM
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@Ruined - are you picking up the 9060? I thought this was the one you have been waiting for?
Things are a bit up in the air at the moment as I may be moving depending on how things shake out in the next week. If this does end up happening , I might end up with a bigger screen and need more lumens (ie lk990)

From what Ive collected the ht9060 looks like it would be good for screens under 130" for HDR and 3D. It's performance with SDR seems to be less than ideal due to a super conservative dimming algorithm plus low native - thus the ht9060 would probably be best paired with another projector for SDR. I think my h9090 could serve that role or an ls10000/10500.
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post #314 of 1883 Old 03-27-2019, 05:29 PM
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@Kris Deering


Kris, maybe I missed it and you said in another thread or somewhere else, but do you know when you might be getting the unit in for review? Or even when the review will be posted?


@ARROW-AV


Nigel, I guess I should be asking you as well...
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post #315 of 1883 Old 03-27-2019, 05:39 PM
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@Kris Deering


Kris, maybe I missed it and you said in another thread or somewhere else, but do you know when you might be getting the unit in for review? Or even when the review will be posted?


@ARROW-AV


Nigel, I guess I should be asking you as well...
They told me it shipped early last week two day and still haven’t seen them. I followed up early this week but still waiting on details. Said they shipped both a 9060 and 970.
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post #316 of 1883 Old 03-27-2019, 06:01 PM
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They told me it shipped early last week two day and still haven’t seen them. I followed up early this week but still waiting on details. Said they shipped both a 9060 and 970.

Awesome, thanks for the update!


Edit: interesting that they would send you the outgoing model, LK970, and not the 990. Any idea why?
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Awesome, thanks for the update!


Edit: interesting that they would send you the outgoing model, LK970, and not the 990. Any idea why?
Is the adjustment knob for lens shift a single turn, or does it turn completely around multiple times?

I'm asking becasue I haven't completely ruled the 9060 out, and for the right price, I may consider buying the 9060 and using a couple stepper motors controlled by a Raspberry Pi to give me motorized lens memory. Of course, I'll have to learn to design parts for a 3D printer... and learn to code in Python... but it may be worth it.

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Is the adjustment knob for lens shift a single turn, or does it turn completely around multiple times?



I'm asking becasue I haven't completely ruled the 9060 out, and for the right price, I may consider buying the 9060 and using a couple stepper motors controlled by a Raspberry Pi to give me motorized lens memory. Of course, I'll have to learn to design parts for a 3D printer... and learn to code in Python... but it may be worth it.

It turns multiple times if it is like the LKs. Make me one too!
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post #319 of 1883 Old 03-29-2019, 01:59 PM
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Dave Harper and other experts -

I have a quick question for you all - When projecting an all white background on the screen, is it okay for a projector to show hues of red/green or blue on some parts of the screen? Or would you expect to see pure white color, edge to edge?


The reason I am asking is because I see color hues on the HT9060 as well as a Sony 695ES that I have tested. Sony tech support in fact said to me that "this is expected from a home theater projector and if I want white color uniformity, I should buy their Pro model".

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
From Secrets:

"Light Output & Contrast
All luminance values are expressed here in nits, also known as candelas per square meter (cd/m²). For those needing a frame of reference, 1fL equals 3.43 nits, or 1 nit equals .29fL.

The HT9060 throws off the stigma of dim LED projectors with plenty of output in all light modes. After calibration, with the lamp in Normal mode, the peak white was 212.614 nits, black was .2079 nit, and the contrast ratio was 1022.8:1. This is the projector’s native contrast ratio.

Reducing the lamp to its Economic mode takes the white level down to 150.1421 nits with a similar contrast ratio of 1015.7:1.

The best way to run the HT9060 is in the SmartEco mode. Then, the LED is varied dynamically to maximize contrast. I measured a peak white of 213.8895 nits, a black level of .0475 nit, and a contrast ratio of 4505.1:1.

HDR performance was similar with a peak white of 210.3494 nits, a black level of .0483 nit, and a static contrast ratio of 4356.7:1

The HT9060 is great for 3D material with a peak white of 21.0878 nits, a black level of .0111 nit, and a contrast ratio of 1903.8:1

Maximum output can be found in the Vivid mode with 230.2298 nits peak, .048 nit black, and 4797:1 contrast. It should be noted that gamma is less accurate in this mode making it unsuitable for critical viewing."


Normal mode 212.614 nits
SmartEco mode 213.8895 nits
Economic mode 150.1421 nits
Maximum output in vivid mode 230.2298 nits

Projector was less than a foot from minimum throw onto his 92" diagonal 1.3 gain screen. Max lumens on this unit was less than 1,200 lumens and the difference with SmarEco on was hardly any change.
So native contrast is around 1000 to 1? My goodness that is very, very bad. I was hoping for an improvement from my previous BenQ HT 9050. But it appears the contrast will be abysmally low on this unit as well.
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Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post

I have a quick question for you all - When projecting an all white background on the screen, is it okay for a projector to show hues of red/green or blue on some parts of the screen? Or would you expect to see pure white color, edge to edge?

The reason I am asking is because I see color hues on the HT9060 as well as a Sony 695ES that I have tested. Sony tech support in fact said to me that "this is expected from a home theater projector and if I want white color uniformity, I should buy their Pro model".

A white field should technically show no color anomalies in an ideal scenario. I have 3 projectors here with excellent white field uniformity, 1 LCOS and 2 DLP (older models .95 and .65 panels). Sony's historically do not have the best white/grey field uniformity, even the more expensive models.

That is surprising to hear for the HT9060. can you put up a 100% white pattern and show an example of what you are seeing?
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post #322 of 1883 Old 03-29-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
A white field should technically show no color anomalies in an ideal scenario. I have 3 projectors here with excellent white field uniformity, 1 LCOS and 2 DLP (older models .95 and .65 panels). Sony's historically do not have the best white/grey field uniformity, even the more expensive models.

That is surprising to hear for the HT9060. can you put up a 100% white pattern and show an example of what you are seeing?
I don't have the BenQ anymore as I returned it and the dealer offered me a Sony. The BenQ had a pink hue in the middle of the screen and the left/right edges were white. The Sony is white in the middle and green on the left and pink on the right. I use a HTPC, so there is always a lot of white on the screen, whether it's a webpage or any other window. The green/pink hue is driving me crazy, while the dealer/Sony think that these projectors are not meant for my kind of usage, as they are designed for video and no one will ever notice something like this in a video.


This is from the BenQ. It's hard to see in a cellphone picture, plus the monitor settings will also hide some of the coloration.

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post #324 of 1883 Old 03-29-2019, 06:46 PM
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It shows up on my computer.
Of course it does.
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post #325 of 1883 Old 03-29-2019, 07:38 PM
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Another review of the HT9060

https://www.cepro.com/article/hands_...ojector_review

As a general question will I get an higher image quality from both the HT9060 and LK990 versus my current Marantz 15-S1 1080P DLP projector?
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post #326 of 1883 Old 03-30-2019, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by shashankmittal View Post
I don't have the BenQ anymore as I returned it and the dealer offered me a Sony. The BenQ had a pink hue in the middle of the screen and the left/right edges were white. The Sony is white in the middle and green on the left and pink on the right. I use a HTPC, so there is always a lot of white on the screen, whether it's a webpage or any other window. The green/pink hue is driving me crazy, while the dealer/Sony think that these projectors are not meant for my kind of usage, as they are designed for video and no one will ever notice something like this in a video.


This is from the BenQ. It's hard to see in a cellphone picture, plus the monitor settings will also hide some of the coloration.
It's not unusual to have different some shading across the screen. The best projectors out of the box for not exhibiting this have been the JVC units in my experience. My current X7900 is almost perfect, with one corner that is very slightly different to the rest.

If this kind of thing really bugs you, the best projector for you might be one of the recent Epson units as they have exposed uniformity controls to the end user, allowing you to correct various shapes of non-uniformity. It is a shame other manufacturers don't take this lead.

Behind the scenes manufacturers have had matrices embedded for dealing with uniformity issues for a long time; going back as far as the Sanyo PLV-z800 I used to have the manufacturer service software for correcting this phenomenon.
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post #327 of 1883 Old 03-30-2019, 05:11 AM
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I've been dealing with Matt from BenQ Australia over the last 3 or 4 weeks also but mainly in relation to the X12000H as unfortunately the LK990 is out of my price range. It seems in Australia pricing doesn't have the same room to move as in the US.

He is organising a X12000H to be sent to a local dealer for me to test out to make sure it ticks all the boxes, hopefully this will happen next week. Pricing isn't as good as I was hoping but if it is a good as some are saying it should prove worth it.

Looking forward to you thoughts.
Well I went to see the X12000H today and I ended up walking away conflicted. On the one hand the colours and clarity are head and shoulders above my current JVC and on the other hand there is the obvious compromise in regards to contrast and black level.

The other unfortunate thing was that both my wife and I could see the rainbow effect. It wasn't noticeable when viewing content or playing games but we could definitely see it when navigating the Xbox one X menus which created doubt for me that at some point it was likely to show up in content.

After spending quite some time testing out the X12000H the dealer took us to another room where they had the Sony VW360ES set up, we played through the same clips and my wife and I agreed that the X12000H had the picture that we both preferred and certainly showed more fine detail in its images.

My wife felt that the rainbows and black levels of the X12000H were something that she could live with as she felt that neither were a big issue. I'm not so sure.

If I was able to have this projector in my home and use it for a week or so to see how it truly performed with my usage that would be the best case scenario, as is I don't feel I can spend the money without being certain I will be happy with my purchase.

I think I will wait to get some more hands on reviews of the LK990 and see if maybe this is an option for me.

Scott
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post #328 of 1883 Old 03-30-2019, 05:40 AM
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Did you mention what type of screen you have ? As Zombie stated Sony’s are not really the best at white field uniformity. In my opinion that is a big problem for them. Usually dlp is good in that area but you have low contrast and possible brightness uniformity issues.

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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
A white field should technically show no color anomalies in an ideal scenario. I have 3 projectors here with excellent white field uniformity, 1 LCOS and 2 DLP (older models .95 and .65 panels). Sony's historically do not have the best white/grey field uniformity, even the more expensive models.

That is surprising to hear for the HT9060. can you put up a 100% white pattern and show an example of what you are seeing?
I don't have the BenQ anymore as I returned it and the dealer offered me a Sony. The BenQ had a pink hue in the middle of the screen and the left/right edges were white. The Sony is white in the middle and green on the left and pink on the right. I use a HTPC, so there is always a lot of white on the screen, whether it's a webpage or any other window. The green/pink hue is driving me crazy, while the dealer/Sony think that these projectors are not meant for my kind of usage, as they are designed for video and no one will ever notice something like this in a video.


This is from the BenQ. It's hard to see in a cellphone picture, plus the monitor settings will also hide some of the coloration.
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post #329 of 1883 Old 03-30-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Squidjammer View Post
Well I went to see the X12000H today and I ended up walking away conflicted. On the one hand the colours and clarity are head and shoulders above my current JVC and on the other hand there is the obvious compromise in regards to contrast and black level.

The other unfortunate thing was that both my wife and I could see the rainbow effect. It wasn't noticeable when viewing content or playing games but we could definitely see it when navigating the Xbox one X menus which created doubt for me that at some point it was likely to show up in content.

After spending quite some time testing out the X12000H the dealer took us to another room where they had the Sony VW360ES set up, we played through the same clips and my wife and I agreed that the X12000H had the picture that we both preferred and certainly showed more fine detail in its images.

My wife felt that the rainbows and black levels of the X12000H were something that she could live with as she felt that neither were a big issue. I'm not so sure.

If I was able to have this projector in my home and use it for a week or so to see how it truly performed with my usage that would be the best case scenario, as is I don't feel I can spend the money without being certain I will be happy with my purchase.

I think I will wait to get some more hands on reviews of the LK990 and see if maybe this is an option for me.

Scott
If the rainbows you noticed on the ht9060 bothered you I would not even consider the lk990 as it has slower sequential color, higher brightness, and hence more opportunity to see RBE.

Of the 4k dlp projectors rhe HT9060 is one of the best choices for low RBE.
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post #330 of 1883 Old 03-30-2019, 10:48 AM
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If this kind of thing really bugs you, the best projector for you might be one of the recent Epson units as they have exposed uniformity controls to the end user, allowing you to correct various shapes of non-uniformity. It is a shame other manufacturers don't take this lead.
Yes, since half of my usage is with a computer, I see webpages and windows with white background all the time and any discoloration can look very annoying.



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My wife felt that the rainbows and black levels of the X12000H were something that she could live with as she felt that neither were a big issue. I'm not so sure.
If I was able to have this projector in my home and use it for a week or so to see how it truly performed with my usage that would be the best case scenario, as is I don't feel I can spend the money without being certain I will be happy with my purchase.
Same thoughts as I posted with my early impressions of that projector. I saw the rainbows, but only when there was something really bright against a dark background. It could be a while line over black (menus etc) or something in the video. The black levels are not as great, but then this is also a 2200 lumen projector, so that's a compromise.


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Did you mention what type of screen you have ? As Zombie stated Sony’s are not really the best at white field uniformity. In my opinion that is a big problem for them. Usually dlp is good in that area but you have low contrast and possible brightness uniformity issues.
I have a 100inch Stewart Cima 1.1 screen, which is 11.5ft away from the projector lens. The BenQ was very good and I preferred its picture quality over the Sony 695ES, but the pink coloration in the middle of the screen didn't work out for me. Maybe that particular unit was bad, I don't know.

Audio: Bryston SP4 | ATI 6005 + 528NC
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