The BENQ HT9060 & LK990 In-Depth Reviews & Comparison Thread - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 950 Old 05-14-2019, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
SOWK hasn't posted here since I posted that. Recall, he was very excited about the HT9060 but wanted even more lumens for his larger screen and was asking about the LK970/990. Then I saw he recently listed his JVC NX7 for sale here, so I was just assuming he was going for one of the BenQs, but I'm not sure.

We'll have to wait to see what he says, I suppose.
Troubling news for JVC and Sony...

Despite the headwind trying to even talk about any DLP (other than a Christie that is), it seems BenQ is slowly but surely eroding the Duopoly...
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post #752 of 950 Old 05-14-2019, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jherring69 View Post
I really hope the JVC gang didn't abduct him and put him under the "Black Floor"
Probably got Blinded by the light of an LK.
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post #753 of 950 Old 05-14-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Probably got Blinded by the light of an LK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpq35wyDi7I

.......and also shell shocked and dumbfounded by how amazing the image actually is after reading all the uninformed and inexperienced posts about it!
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post #754 of 950 Old 05-14-2019, 11:21 AM
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The JVC is up for sale at a price I would be willing to let it go for if someone really wanted it that bad.

The LK970 is a projector I had about an hour or so with, but at someone else's home. I "might" have an opportunity to see one in my theater for a longer period of time do to another member mulling over the decision to try one of the refurbished ones...

But:

Bottom line is I would just buy the JVC NX5 if my NX7 sells.

I have decided to run full open Iris / High Lamp / HDR Profile, as the BT2020 profile is ever too dim for my liking. So that negates the main reason to own the NX7 over the NX5.

Now the reason for the NX5 over the BenQ HT9060 is purely for resale. As we all know it will be easier to sell a JVC than a BenQ.

If BenQ finds a way to combine all the HT and LED function of the 9060 with the light output of the 970 and the smart eco of the 990, I will be officially changing over. We are just not there yet.

The BenQ HT9060 is a stellar choice and it is the correct choice for the owner that allowed me to test it and view it in my personal theater. His screen is 30" less wide than mine and he own an A-Lens on top of it.
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post #755 of 950 Old 05-14-2019, 11:35 AM
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NX5 is a great unit. I was definitely impressed with the value and performance it provides after seeing one for a few hours. They are all great units though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
The JVC is up for sale at a price I would be willing to let it go for if someone really wanted it that bad.



The LK970 is a projector I had about an 1 or so with, but at someone else's home. I "might" have an opportunity to see one in my theater for a longer period of time do to another member mulling over the decision to try one of the refurbished ones...



But:



Bottom line is I would just buy the JVC NX5 if my NX7 sells.


I have decided to run full open Iris / High Lamp / HDR Profile, as the BT2020 profile is ever too dim for my liking. So that negates the main reason to own the NX7 over the NX5.


Now the reason for the NX5 over the BenQ HT9060 is purely for resale. As we all know it will be easier to sell a JVC than a BenQ.



If BenQ finds a way to combine all the HT and LED function of the 9060 with the light output of the 970 and the smart eco of the 990, I will be officially changing over. We are just not there yet.


The BenQ HT9060 is a stellar choice and it is the correct choice for the owner that allowed me to test it and view it in my personal theater. His screen is 30" less wide than mine and he own an A-Lens on top of it.
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post #756 of 950 Old 05-14-2019, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
The JVC is up for sale at a price I would be willing to let it go for if someone really wanted it that bad.

The LK970 is a projector I had about an 1 or so with, but at someone else's home. I "might" have an opportunity to see one in my theater for a longer period of time do to another member mulling over the decision to try one of the refurbished ones...

But:

Bottom line is I would just buy the JVC NX5 if my NX7 sells.

I have decided to run full open Iris / High Lamp / HDR Profile, as the BT2020 profile is ever too dim for my liking. So that negates the main reason to own the NX7 over the NX5.

Now the reason for the NX5 over the BenQ HT9060 is purely for resale. As we all know it will be easier to sell a JVC than a BenQ.

If BenQ finds a way to combine all the HT and LED function of the 9060 with the light output of the 970 and the smart eco of the 990, I will be officially changing over. We are just not there yet.

The BenQ HT9060 is a stellar choice and it is the correct choice for the owner that allowed me to test it and view it in my personal theater. His screen is 30" less wide than mine and he own an A-Lens on top of it.
I run my projector on high bulb and wide open as well but even in that scenario an NX7 is still a good 10k jump in native contrast over an NX5.

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post #757 of 950 Old 05-14-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
......If BenQ finds a way to combine all the HT and LED function of the 9060 with the light output of the 970 and the smart eco of the 990, I will be officially changing over. We are just not there yet...........

Why do you think we’re not there yet? That pretty much describes the LK990 if you ask me, other than being a higher output Laser Phosphor unit instead of LED, which can induce more RBE. Are you susceptible to RBE? The brightness advantage really helps too.

If you’re concerned with the color, don’t be. It’s incredible and one of the strengths! I think you owe it to yourself to check one out.
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post #758 of 950 Old 05-14-2019, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
If you’re concerned with the color, don’t be. It’s incredible and one of the strengths! I think you owe it to yourself to check one out.
You should be concerned with the colour.

Please measure and try and calibrate brilliant colour mode!!

You cannot pat BenQ on the back for something that needs to be fixed. It looks incredible to you, sure, but its not near accurate at all (measurements will immediately show you why) and should be solved with some kind of fix, which I 100% believe they are capable of.

If you keep telling them they did such an incredible job they will never fix it and then who wins? Acknowledge the real situation, the Brilliant Colour mode is not accurate but if you dont use it you lose 50% of the lumen output. With Brilliant Colour on you lost 30-50% of the colour volume required for the lumen output it is making.

Please look at the red square for all these charts. That's luminance. I gather this is directly related to colour volume if deficient?



Blue is the only colour which is fine, can guess why













Please measure it and see! Also Dave, I am the only one who has done this so far, I would actually love it if you could please corroborate with my data, like I said, I am not a professional, but this is the only display and only mode ive run into where its impossible to calibrate because of lack of luminance. So other people confirming that its a real thing would be good. I am 99% sure it is though. But more than one set of data will cement the situation.

I am really sorry to be a buzz kill, but for any projector costing over $5000 (or even half that) this should not happen. Fix one or both of those problems and its excellent start. Imagine how amazing it would really be if it could actually hit the proper colour volume for the lumens. Right now it seems to be up to 50% deficient.
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post #759 of 950 Old 05-15-2019, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
If BenQ finds a way to combine all the HT and LED function of the 9060 with the light output of the 970 and the smart eco of the 990, I will be officially changing over. We are just not there yet.
It's called RGB Laser And yeah, that will be the promise land. But still a few years off before affordable. HLD LED is the best transition technology IMO, but only 1700 lumens calibrated might not be enough for a massive screen - which is where LK990 would come in, but you lose some of the finesse of the HT9060 of course for the brute strength light output currently.
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Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
I am genuinely curious to see how much longer projectors are even relevant tech. Feel like most companies are looking to microled walls and similar products at this point.

Or even a shift into VR based films. (imo this is what I would be trying to figure out if I was working as a filmmaker. Filming every scene in 180 degrees, turn movie watching into a VR experience where you are surrounded by video and sound in 180 degrees. Talk about immersion).

We are probably decades away from something like that even being attempted..but it could absolutely be the next step in film evolution.
Having a screen that generates its own image takes LOADS of ifs and buts out of the ultimate picture quality eases decision making.
Simplifies things a lot.

As soon as they make 100"+ OLED roll-able screens, that is where my money will be going.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Having a screen that generates its own image takes LOADS of ifs and buts out of the ultimate picture quality eases decision making.
Simplifies things a lot.

As soon as they make 100"+ OLED roll-able screens, that is where my money will be going.
As soon? Then you will be sinking a fortune. The 98" Sony OLED, which is not roll-able is 70k.
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post #762 of 950 Old 05-15-2019, 07:09 AM
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As soon? Then you will be sinking a fortune. The 98" Sony OLED, which is not roll-able is 70k.
Hmmm okay, I didn't think I would have to qualify that statement, but as you brought it up, I will say that I didn't say, 'at any cost'.
However I would be willing to pay a significant sum if the tech is right. Roll-able OLED panels will be able to support DV and HDR10+ etc etc.
Plus nothing hanging from the ceiling any more.
As an aside, I am not getting into the 'surround audio with a panel' debate either, as I couldn't really care less at this juncture.

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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Hmmm okay, I didn't think I would have to qualify that statement, but as you brought it up, I will say that I didn't say, 'at any cost'.
However I would be willing to pay a significant sum if the tech is right. Roll-able OLED panels will be able to support DV and HDR10+ etc etc.
Plus nothing hanging from the ceiling any more.
As an aside, I am not getting into the 'surround audio with a panel' debate either, as I couldn't really care less at this juncture.
Sorry, I should have put a smiley face, since I knew what you meant and I was just kidding. Like everything else in the AV world, when something groundbreaking comes out, it costs a fortune.
Just like microled is going to cost a lot for the next ten years.
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post #764 of 950 Old 05-15-2019, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Sorry, I should have put a smiley face, since I knew what you meant and I was just kidding. Like everything else in the AV world, when something groundbreaking comes out, it costs a fortune. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Just like microled is going to cost a lot for the next ten years.
No problemo.

You are not wrong on your last points!

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As soon? Then you will be sinking a fortune. The 98" Sony OLED, which is not roll-able is 70k.
Not to mention, I think that's a lot of money to invest on something very vulnerable.

Heck, even $10k is.

There are plenty of scenarios where a screen can get damaged - hit by an object, dirt, scratches, etc. We've all seen pictures of shattered or damaged flat panels.

Now imagine spending oodles more money on your flatpanel with a much more vulnerable surface area! Much easier to damage and much more cost incurred!

Also, when you move you now have to move that monster screen you must move with you. Most screens aren't too expensive and you can just buy a new screen and move only the projector. Not so when the entirety of the investment is the screen itself.

I just don't like this idea of a massive TV screen, rollable or not - the cost is going to be too high and surface too vulnerable. I'd rather be able to replace my screen material if something goes wrong rather than essentially the entire sunk cost of the whole display system.
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post #766 of 950 Old 05-15-2019, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Not to mention, I think that's a lot of money to invest on something very vulnerable.

Heck, even $10k is.

There are plenty of scenarios where a screen can get damaged - hit by an object, dirt, scratches, etc. We've all seen pictures of shattered or damaged flat panels.

Now imagine spending oodles more money on your flatpanel with a much more vulnerable surface area! Much easier to damage and much more cost incurred!

Also, when you move you now have to move that monster screen you must move with you. Most screens aren't too expensive and you can just buy a new screen and move only the projector. Not so when the entirety of the investment is the screen itself.

I just don't like this idea of a massive TV screen, rollable or not - the cost is going to be too high and surface too vulnerable. I'd rather be able to replace my screen material if something goes wrong rather than essentially the entire sunk cost of the whole display system.
That is what good insurance is for.

When you move you tend to hire a massive lorry to put all your stuff in. No great shakes putting the roll up screen in there.

I happen to like the idea of a high nit display with perfect black levels myself.

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Sorry for reposting this from another thread but it seems quite relevant here:

I did some research into Phillip's HLD LED technology and I found this info:


Quote:
The maintenance of the pump LEDs has been assessed so far up to 12k hrs for 26 individual LEDs under various stress
conditions. Figure 11 shows the results for a high solder temperature of 105˚C, with a drive current of 1.5A at 100% duty
cycle (left graph) and with a peak drive current of 4.0A at 50% duty cycle (right graph). These results show no difference
between pulsed and DC operation. Radiative flux decay is less than 5% at 12khrs even at these highly stressed drive
conditions
. We can conclude that the HLD module design is very robust with respect to the LED operating conditions.

From the paper: LED light engine concept with ultra-high scalable luminance
So basically, HLD light output is almost completely stable over the lamps rated lifetime and lamp life/failure is actually more related to on/off cycles than lamp hours.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
Having a screen that generates its own image takes LOADS of ifs and buts out of the ultimate picture quality eases decision making.
Simplifies things a lot.

As soon as they make 100"+ OLED roll-able screens, that is where my money will be going.
The only question mark becomes what happens to the speakers?

---------------


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Can anyone tell me what refresh rates with DLP-Link the HT9060 supports? Does it do 144hz with proper glasses?

Also, is there a comparison between the HT5550 and the HT9060 somewhere? I'm really curious what I'm giving up between the two... I know lamp vs LED and 9060 appears to support far more 3D resolutions while 5550 has HDMI 2.2 etc..

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post #770 of 950 Old 05-15-2019, 09:11 PM
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The BENQ HT9060 & LK990 In-Depth Reviews & Comparison Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
You should be concerned with the colour.

Please measure and try and calibrate brilliant colour mode!!

You cannot pat BenQ on the back for something that needs to be fixed. It looks incredible to you, sure, but its not near accurate at all (measurements will immediately show you why) and should be solved with some kind of fix, which I 100% believe they are capable of.

If you keep telling them they did such an incredible job they will never fix it and then who wins? Acknowledge the real situation, the Brilliant Colour mode is not accurate but if you dont use it you lose 50% of the lumen output. With Brilliant Colour on you lost 30-50% of the colour volume required for the lumen output it is making.

Please look at the red square for all these charts. That's luminance. I gather this is directly related to colour volume if deficient?



Blue is the only colour which is fine, can guess why













Please measure it and see! Also Dave, I am the only one who has done this so far, I would actually love it if you could please corroborate with my data, like I said, I am not a professional, but this is the only display and only mode ive run into where its impossible to calibrate because of lack of luminance. So other people confirming that its a real thing would be good. I am 99% sure it is though. But more than one set of data will cement the situation.

I am really sorry to be a buzz kill, but for any projector costing over $5000 (or even half that) this should not happen. Fix one or both of those problems and its excellent start. Imagine how amazing it would really be if it could actually hit the proper colour volume for the lumens. Right now it seems to be up to 50% deficient.

I’m not concerned with the color. If I recall there is a reason for this with blue laser phosphor single chip DLPs that derive their red and green from the yellow phosphor that’s excited by the native blue laser. I specifically remember the Optoma Product Manager telling me about this when I was so utterly frustrated trying to calibrate the first UHZ65 I had through here. I had a very long and nice email chain, but the problem was it was using my old AGI email from when I contracted with them and I no longer have access to it. I also spoke to him in the phone but don’t have anything from that conversation specifically written down. What I do remember is that he said you MUST have Brilliant Color on with HDR to make it work right, so you have to figure out how best to calibrate with that caveat. If I recall, I found that you almost have to ignore the color luminance setting when calibrating unless as a last resort to pull it in that last bit if needed. If you used too much then that’s what caused all that banding and solarization that I’ve seen and has been reported. I think it had something to do with Brilliant Color, when in the actual image, makes up for this deficiency in viewing and perception. This according to the Optoma Manager if memory serves.

I tried this myself and do remember that allowed me to get saturation sweep tracking very close and in line except for the very peaks when it gave out (after about 91% of P3 iirc). This was on the UHZ65 initially then I took that info and correlated it over to the LK970 and now the LK990, which after last night’s preliminary run got me fairly close, but a lot of the colors shot up and over saturated when past 40-60%.

Maybe someone who is in good with Optoma, Vivitek or BenQ can contact an engineer or something to get the skinny? I don’t have the connections I once had since being mostly out of the game except for this HarperVision fun.

Last edited by Dave Harper; 05-16-2019 at 10:11 AM.
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post #771 of 950 Old 05-15-2019, 11:59 PM
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The only question mark becomes what happens to the speakers?
LOL. To quote myself in post 762......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
As an aside, I am not getting into the 'surround audio with a panel' debate either, as I couldn't really care less at this juncture.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. It matters that you don’t just give up."
Stephen Hawking.

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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
You should be concerned with the colour.

Please measure and try and calibrate brilliant colour mode!!

You cannot pat BenQ on the back for something that needs to be fixed.

If you keep telling them they did such an incredible job they will never fix it and then who wins?
I'm not so sure BenQ should be surprised, though. In the projector's specs, BenQ itself discloses that this projector can reach up to only 92% of Rec709. So, having made that concession, BenQ is already aware that color can't be properly calibrated to Rec 709.

I think this projector is a great candidate for a color filter. It has incredible lumens and with a filter, you get the wider color and should still have a little over 3,000 fully calibrated lumens --for comparisons, that's still some 1300 lumens brighter than the HT9060, although the 9060 will have the advantage of a dedicated LED light source for each primary color.
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I'm not so sure BenQ should be surprised, though. In the projector's specs, BenQ itself discloses that this projector can reach up to only 92% of Rec709. So, having made that concession, BenQ is already aware that color can't be properly calibrated to Rec 709.

I think this projector is a great candidate for a color filter. It has incredible lumens and with a filter, you get the wider color and should still have a little over 3,000 fully calibrated lumens --for comparisons, that's still some 1300 lumens brighter than the HT9060, although the 9060 will have the advantage of a dedicated LED light source for each primary color.
I think you are slightly misunderstanding, with Brilliant Colour off you can pretty perfectly calibrate the saturation tracking up to the limits of the colour gamut but with only half the light output. With Brilliant Colour on, you cannot, and you will be devoid of luminance greatly and thus potential colour volume.

By the way fully calibrated was only about 2800 lumens. With Brilliant Colour On, which is an oxymoron since it cannot be calibrated, So whatever lumens you have is irrelevant because its simply not accurate. The LK970 was apparently not suffering this issue so that one is a better candidate.

This is with brilliant colour off, no problem with Delta L at all. In fact, its slightly overshooting.




Brilliant Colour ON. Check out whats its doing to the first green saturation point. Yellow, Red, Magenta Primaries and tracking, even Cyan is taking on a strange S shape in tracking... Let alone the crazy DeltaL deficiency which is why the DeltaE is so high. BC simply cannot be calibrated.

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post #774 of 950 Old 05-16-2019, 05:24 PM
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Brilliant Colour ON. Check out whats its doing to the first green saturation point. Yellow, Red, Magenta Primaries and tracking... Let alone the crazy DeltaL deficiency which is why the DeltaE is so high. BC simply cannot be calibrated.

That's too bad.
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post #775 of 950 Old 05-16-2019, 07:39 PM
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That's too bad.

So 2800 lumens calibrated is now “too bad”? Not that I don’t agree Brilliant Color should be fixed to track properly, but from all the reports I’ve seen with it, that’s the way it is on them all.

Hey I just thought of something. I wonder if the reason is because we only use a 10% window pattern to measure this? Hear me out. ALL of the colors are derived from the blue laser with these, right? Blue is of course the only color that measures correctly as shown in Javs’ charts. So I’m speculating that maybe due to color and phosphor wheel on/off timings where each color is only flashed a certain amount of time, and some also using the yellow phosphor, and since the pattern is only using a 10% window of that particular color with the rest of the border image is black (very small amounts of each color), that maybe the luminance is compromised this way somehow since the actual full power of blue from the laser is being tied up also producing all these other colors and the black surrounding the color window. Plus if Automatic Power Control kicks in, which can’t be defeated on these, it may affect this too. I wonder if using a full field pattern of the same color would give the same reading?

I think other owners would agree that one thing these do produce are very bright, rich and saturated looking colors, so in real world actual mixed content maybe this isn’t an issue, but it shows up with these test patterns?

idk just brainstorming. I’ll have to test this.
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post #776 of 950 Old 05-16-2019, 08:19 PM
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So 2800 lumens calibrated is now “too bad”? Not that I don’t agree Brilliant Color should be fixed to track properly, but from all the reports I’ve seen with it, that’s the way it is on them all.

Hey I just thought of something. I wonder if the reason is because we only use a 10% window pattern to measure this? Hear me out. ALL of the colors are derived from the blue laser with these, right? Blue is of course the only color that measures correctly as shown in Javs’ charts. So I’m speculating that maybe due to color and phosphor wheel on/off timings where each color is only flashed a certain amount of time, and some also using the yellow phosphor, and since the pattern is only using a 10% window of that particular color with the rest of the border image is black (very small amounts of each color), that maybe the luminance is compromised this way somehow since the actual full power of blue from the laser is being tied up also producing all these other colors and the black surrounding the color window. Plus if Automatic Power Control kicks in, which can’t be defeated on these, it may affect this too. I wonder if using a full field pattern of the same color would give the same reading?

I think other owners would agree that one thing these do produce are very bright, rich and saturated looking colors, so in real world actual mixed content maybe this isn’t an issue, but it shows up with these test patterns?

idk just brainstorming. I’ll have to test this.
I use full field when calibrating ...
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post #777 of 950 Old 05-16-2019, 08:31 PM
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So 2800 lumens calibrated is now “too bad”? Not that I don’t agree Brilliant Color should be fixed to track properly, but from all the reports I’ve seen with it, that’s the way it is on them all.

Hey I just thought of something. I wonder if the reason is because we only use a 10% window pattern to measure this? Hear me out. ALL of the colors are derived from the blue laser with these, right? Blue is of course the only color that measures correctly as shown in Javs’ charts. So I’m speculating that maybe due to color and phosphor wheel on/off timings where each color is only flashed a certain amount of time, and some also using the yellow phosphor, and since the pattern is only using a 10% window of that particular color with the rest of the border image is black (very small amounts of each color), that maybe the luminance is compromised this way somehow since the actual full power of blue from the laser is being tied up also producing all these other colors and the black surrounding the color window. Plus if Automatic Power Control kicks in, which can’t be defeated on these, it may affect this too. I wonder if using a full field pattern of the same color would give the same reading?

I think other owners would agree that one thing these do produce are very bright, rich and saturated looking colors, so in real world actual mixed content maybe this isn’t an issue, but it shows up with these test patterns?

idk just brainstorming. I’ll have to test this.
Right, 3000 lumens is still bright enough for me and I never cared for BC on DLPs anyway.
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post #778 of 950 Old 05-16-2019, 08:38 PM
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Right, 3000 lumens is still bright enough for me and I never cared for BC on DLPs anyway.
If you turn off BC you get ~1700lm calibrated on the LK990...

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post #779 of 950 Old 05-16-2019, 08:49 PM
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If you turn off BC you get ~1700lm calibrated on the LK990...
Then the way I would watch it, it would be about the same output as the HT9060, as that's what it is calibrated as well. You get 1700 lumens at about 100 percent of DCI P3 on the 9060 and even more for SDR, depending on which calibrated SDR mode I use.

There is no Brilliant Color option on the HT9060. I was discussing this with another forum member; it appears with BC on, the DMD remains constant on while the RGB and Y wheels do their thing. It's even more complicated with a blue core laser because blue as a native light source is overwhelming.
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post #780 of 950 Old 05-16-2019, 08:53 PM
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Then the way I would watch it, it would be about the same output as the HT9060, as that's what it is calibrated as well. You get 1700 lumens at about 100 percent of DCI P3 on the 9060 and even more for SDR, depending on which calibrated SDR mode I use.

There is no Brilliant Color option on the HT9060. I was discussing this with another forum member; it appears with BC on, the DMD remains constant on while the RGB and Y wheels do their thing. It's even more complicated with a blue core laser because blue as a native light source is overwhelming.

Well then it sounds like the 9060 if you want any kind of accuracy is the choice for sure.
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