The BENQ HT9060 & LK990 In-Depth Reviews & Comparison Thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1531 of 1701 Old 06-11-2019, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
I don't think so. If the room reflections limit the ANSI to 100:1, then all projectors would measure about the 100:1 measured from the screen. If walls are reflective, what can the projector do about it

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If the room is flawed , walls are white and there is an abundance of ambient light , discussing projector contrast or any other variable is a waste of time . Like all variables discussed including color , contrast, brightness, sharpness and motion , it's simply pointless to compare unless there is a near perfect environment, common sense would dictate for comparisons the room should be near perfect. In a near perfect theater room is where subtle differences are going to be realized, that's when it matters, for everything else it's a waste of time. Perfect room environment, a flawless projector sample calibrated to perfection ( or taste as most do even after calibration), perfect screen matched appropriately to the projector, a perfect source , adequate HDMI cables , perfect convergence if triple chip, on and on it goes. If your room is a nightmare does it really matter what you buy , just get a cheap light canon and a big silver ALR screen , mission acomplished .


I think the chart clearly shows what the advantages are, until movies are made below 1% the chart is indicative of what performance one should expect across the full range movies are available and that is between 0% to 100% . For the vast majority the average of all movies is 9% ADL (80%), both above and below this is the balance of the ADL contrast. High ANSI projectors pull ahead for 90% of the content, the charts show this clearly, otherwise Christie and Baraco et al are wasting their time. Higher ANSI provides a wider range on screen that manifests with accuracy to source without crushing blacks , shadow detail is not lost , a characteristic that many prefer. That's called personal choice or preference , when you know the real variables one can excercise this appropriately .

Perfection doesn't exist, a truely ultimate projector would have matched on/off and ANSI on screen, even the very best have a maximum of 1000:1 ANSI. The Christie and Barco at 1000:1 combined with high on/off is as good as one can get BUT any projector that has this level ANSI will look very similar on average ADL content , the vast majority of content, just as the graphs indicate . I can see where 1000:1 has an advantage, just like what happens below .5% ADL . Neither is best, neither superior but both have different performace characteristics just at different ends of the spectrum . I don't try to convince one as superior , nor do I try to convince one is inferior , I simply show the differences as they actually are in relation to ADL avearges . We know the average ADL of all movies , we know how ANSI performs across the spectrum , those are hard facts . People choose one over the other becasue it's their preference , for many the 80% (ADL of all movies) where higher ANSI works happens to be what many prefer
which again is obvious from the choices people make . Contrast is also only one variable the 9060 and LK990 just happen to have great performance within this range .

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post #1532 of 1701 Old 06-11-2019, 07:05 AM
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Yes you can use 50% at around 9% but if you read farther, you will see that 45% are 5% ADL or less.
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post #1533 of 1701 Old 06-11-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
If the room is flawed , walls are white and there is an abundance of ambient light , discussing projector contrast or any other variable is a waste of time.
I was only pointing out that the ANSI contrast ratio between high and low ANSI projectors doesn't stay the same between good and not so good room, like you said.

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post #1534 of 1701 Old 06-12-2019, 05:27 AM
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I was only pointing out that the ANSI contrast ratio between high and low ANSI projectors doesn't stay the same between good and not so good room, like you said.


Thank You for pointing this out , I was just further confirming your remarks , it's not always clear what we are conveying . I've gone through the material at Projection Dream years ago when it was first published, have conversed with Flo ( Soulnighht) about some of these aspects. It was reassuring to know that there is not a huge difference in contrast between what is considered a "perfect" room and an "optimised" room, for many who do not have the ultimate bat cave it's good to realize the majority of benefits are indeed working in one's favor.



I started out with a family room HT, it was far from ideal , when I turned a basement den into a optimized theater I certainly did see the benefits. Walls were a deep orange/brown color, ceiling was painted theater flat black . When I added Joanne III velvet around the screen and back to the side surround speakers including ceiling and stage, covered the speakers with protostar, that made a huge difference. Contrast was improved, obviously, a noticeable measure beyond the optimized, probably increased perceived contrast which we differentiate, but in the end is really just the same. Perceived is basically how our eyes ( iris) adjusts as whites are more intense, the end results are the same. This is why a brighter overall image with higher white values create better-perceived contrast, but at the end of the day it's just better contrast. With the velvet added around the screen , I can clearly seen the washout from a single LED light on my subs , the ones on the chairs and AV equipment, they all flood my screen it's that sensitive. In the theater I'm building now, the entire room will be velvet , all LED lights will be eliminated, speakers will not be visible, the stage area will be void of all equipment period, it should be as close to ideal as it can be.


One thing I would recommend is the velvet around the screen and stage area , it increases contrast for sure, but more than this it makes the screen float in space just like looking out a window. This, more than the contrast ,makes the experience a true cinematic one that cannot be reproduced. In my family room even with my 75" Q9 , there are too many viual distractions that take me out of the experience , the larger screen floating is space transports one into the intended cinematic world . My projector cannot match my Q9 for contrast or sharpness but the larger screen set-up is miles ahead when it comes to immersion.
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Hey - to each their own. Some people even like white Zinfandel wine. Unfortunately I can't help but ridicule them - that ain't wine ! Yuck !
Hey! If it weren't for zins I would never have graduated to the wines I drink now. Maybe Zinfandel is the starter-projector of the wine world?
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As said, stopping distance will also be an absolute measurement, not open to interpretation or perception.
i.e. it is, what it is.
It's an absolute measurement for that car on a given test surface with a particular driver under individual conditions (both the vehicle's state and environment) -- you may or may not be able to replicate it. Similarly, a given projector's performance may or may not be attainable in a certain room.
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Hey! If it weren't for zins I would never have graduated to the wines I drink now. Maybe Zinfandel is the starter-projector of the wine world?
Zinfandel and White Zinfandel are two entirely different things !!
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Zinfandel and White Zinfandel are two entirely different things !!
I was talking about Zinfandel (the red wine) -- what were you talking about? Of course, I also drank some blasphemous Rosé wine at the beginning of my wine journey.
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I was talking about Zinfandel (the red wine) -- what were you talking about? Of course, I also drank some blasphemous Rosé wine at the beginning of my wine journey.
There are fabulous French rose's that i drink all the time ( last night in fact ). Then there is sweet White Zin -

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It's an absolute measurement for that car on a given test surface with a particular driver under individual conditions (both the vehicle's state and environment) -- you may or may not be able to replicate it. Similarly, a given projector's performance may or may not be attainable in a certain room.
Agreed, but that is not quite what I was saying.

Regardless of the state of the vehicle and the environmental conditions, the end result of the stopping test is completely unambiguous and can be demonstrated without perception being a variable.

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Agreed, but that is not quite what I was saying.

Regardless of the state of the vehicle and the environmental conditions, the end result of the stopping test is completely unambiguous and can be demonstrated without perception being a variable.
True, I was more speaking to the ability to attain the performance, which Ruined has been using as one reason to buy the BenQ over its competitors -- if you don't have an environment which allows a high contrast projector to shine, why pay for one. Sorry, I just furthered the analogy, I wasn't picking on your statement.
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True, I was more speaking to the ability to attain the performance, which Ruined has been using as one reason to buy the BenQ over its competitors -- if you don't have an environment which allows a high contrast projector to shine, why pay for one. Sorry, I just furthered the analogy, I wasn't picking on your statement.
No problem.

I agree with the bolded point, but some here would argue why pay for a 'low' contrast display in any circumstance....

99% of people have displays that some on here would call 'substandard', but are perfectly happy with them.

Truth be told, in the real world, any modern display is more than capable of showing a great image, regardless of how they use their respective technologies to achieve that end.
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Truth be told, in the real world, any modern display is more than capable of showing a great image, regardless of how they use their respective technologies to achieve that end.
Shhh! Don't say that! The emperor definitely has clothes! I can see them. And if you were only properly trained, you'd see them too!
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Similarly, a given projector's performance may or may not be attainable in a certain room.
That's for sure. Good point.

...very cool username by the way. Are you a Dokken fan? George Lynch has his own guitar line now, by the way, called "My Scary Guitars" and also has the LTD one wherein he teamed up with ESP. They all look and sound beautiful.

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Originally Posted by Archibald1 View Post
No problem.

I agree with the bolded point, but some here would argue why pay for a 'low' contrast display in any circumstance....

99% of people have displays that some on here would call 'substandard', but are perfectly happy with them.

Truth be told, in the real world, any modern display is more than capable of showing a great image, regardless of how they use their respective technologies to achieve that end.
Yep, that is why you have to look at the scenes that are tougher to reproduce, to see what a projector can do. If you were only going to look at bright animation, then it would be much harder to tell the difference with many projectors.
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BenQ HT9060 impressions

Since I've benefited so much from the great information shared on this forum I'd like to share my perspectives and experiences regarding the HT9060 -- all at the risk of being ridiculed for my taste, ignorance, and particular eye-brain perceptual abilities. We've had an HT9060 for about two months now and love it. That said, I should shed some light on my path to this purchase: I got into HT in the early 2000's with an LCD Sanyo/Boxlight 768p projector. It threw a bright picture but with poor contrast, so I paired it with a Stewart GrayHawk screen. Even bought a Lumagen to scale content for the pj's native resolution. However, it did not have sealed light path, so dust blobs were a persistent problem. Along came the Sony Ruby, promising high contrast 1080p in all its glory. It was expensive at $10k, but I figured it would be a good long-term investment. The first unit arrived with its panels off by over 2 pixels. Had to fight with Sony for a replacement since they were claiming 2 pixels is within spec. Finally won with the help of my (AVS) dealer. The replacement was "only" off by 1 pixel, so I had to live with it. (The Ruby had no "convergence correction" function, FWIW.) On top of that, the unit broke down 3 or 4 times and had to be boxed up and shipped off to Laredo, TX each time for repair, on my dime. After that experience I vowed never to buy a big ticket item from Sony again. But some years later I jumped at a Sony HW30 that could be obtained for $3k and had been set up and verified by an AVS salesperson. The HW30, although throwing a fairly dim, soft image served me well until now. To somewhat boost its brightness and punch I matched it with a DA-LITE 2.4 gain HP screen. Fast forward to CEDIA 2018 and the 4K JVC announcements. Watching JVC's rollout issues, not to mention being disappointed that even their relatively expensive NX9 is lamp based, and then hearing good things about the various solid state BenQ models, I decided to take a serious look at them. But with a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen and no way to go bigger, the LKs seemed overkill.

For my screen size the HT9060 seemed an obvious choice among the BenQ models, and I got it for a great price, so I decided to take a chance on it sight unseen (there was little chance I'd get to see one in person anytime soon). So far, I have to say we are delighted with it. Remember, I'm coming from a fairly ancient HW30. Also note that we average about one movie per week and otherwise watch shows streamed in 1080p, upscaled by our devices:
- Panasonic UB820
- Roku Ultra
- ATV4K
The output of all of all these goes into an HDFury Integral 2, where chroma is upsampled to 4:4:4 (as necessary for the source input), per recommendations to avoid banding. That's the objective, at least.

I run the projector in Cinema mode w/SmartEco and have not gotten it calibrated yet as I'm still undecided as to whether I want to change the screen material.

At the moment I'm also not sure which device I prefer for streaming. It may be the ATV4K since it has the option to output 24p content at native rate. I may change my mind on that, though.

My room is light controlled but not a bat cave by any stretch. The walls are painted pomegranate red and the ceiling/doors/trim a very dark grey. There's no black velvet anywhere, and the flooring is light bamboo. Seating is a little less than 1.2 screen-width away.

We use the UB820 for HDR content, of course. On the Panny I enable the HDR Optimizer with Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. set to -5. I eyeballed the setting using some dark scenes to determine which setting revealed the most detail and had the least amount of haze. Presumably, anyone with lower screen gain would use a higher value or leave it at 0. Thanks to Kris Deering for this suggestion. Compared to the projector's handing of HDR, colors seem more natural, and overall picture quality appears improved by letting the Panasonic do the tone mapping and output SDR. With this setting, 4K 24p content on the Panasonic arrives at the projector as 4K 24p 4:4:4 BT2020 12bit SDR @ 445MHz. How do I know this for sure? The HDFury tells me. Note that, with this input the HDFury operates as passthrough. (As an aside, the UB820 outputting BT2020 for SDR raises the question as to why it's a problem for the projector to not allow a gamut change in this mode. Wouldn't this involve an undesirable conversion at the projector when we have sources that provide this flexibility?)

With this projector I definitely recommend the UB820 for its inexpensive tone mapping and HDFury for its Swiss army knife programmability (the green info text it outputs prompted my kids to comment that I had hacked the signal, which is kind of what it does). I got the two for $700 combined.

Pros of the HT9060:

1. Brightness and punch. The image thrown by my previous projector, and most commercial theaters, for that matter, is lifeless and dull by comparison. I'm still using the HP screen. It can be a bit too bright for some SDR content, but I'm on the fence about replacing it since it has such great pop on most content. That, combined with the color range & sharpness, produces an addicting palpability in the image and to the cinematic experience.

2. Sharpness. While my Sony projected a painting-like image the BenQ throws something much more photo realistic. It really draws you into the content. Using the ATV4K for slide shows of photos is quite an experience and really shows off the sharpness (and color rendition).

3. Color. Even uncalibrated, with the current settings I can't point to anything that seems off about its colors. In fact, that's another aspect that makes this projector so compelling and realistic in its rendering of an image. The colors are simply beautiful and must be seen first hand -- miles away from what my Sony produced.

4. Price. For me, being solid state and throwing such a fine image provides great value. There is indeed competition in its price range, of course, but for me the BenQ won out, especially given its reputation for unit-to-unit consistency. From my experiences with 3-panel technology and compromised optics I was very reluctant to take another risk at having to live with a sub-par sample. As I've said before, the BenQ is razor sharp edge to edge. The QBF pattern confirms this.

Cons of the HT9060, and they are minor:

1. It's louder than the Sony. That said, the Sony is whisper quiet. With the projector about 6 feet behind us it can be heard when no content is playing. But once a movie or show starts I don't notice it.

2. Under certain conditions I can see RBE. Here's what I wrote previously: Sounds like most people don’t see any at all, but I must be super sensitive because I see some RBE when my eyes move quickly across the screen and there’s very high contrast white-on-black, like with the progress bar on some players when the image is paused. I never see it when viewing content normally, only as in my example where the movie is paused and I turn to speak to my wife or kids. So, I’m fairly certain a color wheel DLP is out of the question for me. That said, the minor RBE I experience in these instances does not bother me at all.

3. The lens cap fits very snugly, so care must be taken when removing it and putting it back on. This is compounded by the fact that a very slight turn of the lens changes focus significantly. The Sony had plastic tabs around its dust cap for a snug fit, which were easy to snap off for a loose fit. The HT9060 dust cover provides no such option, so care is required -- and the occasional re-focus.

That's it. FYI, I have not seen the JVCs for comparison, nor have I viewed that scene from Interstellar on this projector. I watched it once on the Sony. Not my cup of tea: kind of like if Terrence Malick did Sci-Fi. But I do own both Blade Runner films in 4K, and while they don't show as well as Oblivion, which looks amazing with this projector, I don't notice anything objectionable with those films, either. I'm sure the JVCs do much better with them, but I'm holding out for a solid state pj with JVC contrast and a comparably good lens, all in the BenQ's price range. At this rate it looks like I'll be happy with the BenQ for five years or more.
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post #1546 of 1701 Old 06-13-2019, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Siener View Post
Since I've benefited so much from the great information shared on this forum I'd like to share my perspectives and experiences regarding the HT9060 -- all at the risk of being ridiculed for my taste, ignorance, and particular eye-brain perceptual abilities. We've had an HT9060 for about two months now and love it. That said, I should shed some light on my path to this purchase: I got into HT in the early 2000's with an LCD Sanyo/Boxlight 768p projector. It threw a bright picture but with poor contrast, so I paired it with a Stewart GrayHawk screen. Even bought a Lumagen to scale content for the pj's native resolution. However, it did not have sealed light path, so dust blobs were a persistent problem. Along came the Sony Ruby, promising high contrast 1080p in all its glory. It was expensive at $10k, but I figured it would be a good long-term investment. The first unit arrived with its panels off by over 2 pixels. Had to fight with Sony for a replacement since they were claiming 2 pixels is within spec. Finally won with the help of my (AVS) dealer. The replacement was "only" off by 1 pixel, so I had to live with it. (The Ruby had no "convergence correction" function, FWIW.) On top of that, the unit broke down 3 or 4 times and had to be boxed up and shipped off to Laredo, TX each time for repair, on my dime. After that experience I vowed never to buy a big ticket item from Sony again. But some years later I jumped at a Sony HW30 that could be obtained for $3k and had been set up and verified by an AVS salesperson. The HW30, although throwing a fairly dim, soft image served me well until now. To somewhat boost its brightness and punch I matched it with a DA-LITE 2.4 gain HP screen. Fast forward to CEDIA 2018 and the 4K JVC announcements. Watching JVC's rollout issues, not to mention being disappointed that even their relatively expensive NX9 is lamp based, and then hearing good things about the various solid state BenQ models, I decided to take a serious look at them. But with a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen and no way to go bigger, the LKs seemed overkill.

For my screen size the HT9060 seemed an obvious choice among the BenQ models, and I got it for a great price, so I decided to take a chance on it sight unseen (there was little chance I'd get to see one in person anytime soon). So far, I have to say we are delighted with it. Remember, I'm coming from a fairly ancient HW30. Also note that we average about one movie per week and otherwise watch shows streamed in 1080p, upscaled by our devices:
- Panasonic UB820
- Roku Ultra
- ATV4K
The output of all of all these goes into an HDFury Integral 2, where chroma is upsampled to 4:4:4 (as necessary for the source input), per recommendations to avoid banding. That's the objective, at least.

I run the projector in Cinema mode w/SmartEco and have not gotten it calibrated yet as I'm still undecided as to whether I want to change the screen material.

At the moment I'm also not sure which device I prefer for streaming. It may be the ATV4K since it has the option to output 24p content at native rate. I may change my mind on that, though.

My room is light controlled but not a bat cave by any stretch. The walls are painted pomegranate red and the ceiling/doors/trim a very dark grey. There's no black velvet anywhere, and the flooring is light bamboo. Seating is a little less than 1.2 screen-width away.

We use the UB820 for HDR content, of course. On the Panny I enable the HDR Optimizer with Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. set to -5. I eyeballed the setting using some dark scenes to determine which setting revealed the most detail and had the least amount of haze. Presumably, anyone with lower screen gain would use a higher value or leave it at 0. Thanks to Kris Deering for this suggestion. Compared to the projector's handing of HDR, colors seem more natural, and overall picture quality appears improved by letting the Panasonic do the tone mapping and output SDR. With this setting, 4K 24p content on the Panasonic arrives at the projector as 4K 24p 4:4:4 BT2020 12bit SDR @ 445MHz. How do I know this for sure? The HDFury tells me. Note that, with this input the HDFury operates as passthrough. (As an aside, the UB820 outputting BT2020 for SDR raises the question as to why it's a problem for the projector to not allow a gamut change in this mode. Wouldn't this involve an undesirable conversion at the projector when we have sources that provide this flexibility?)

With this projector I definitely recommend the UB820 for its inexpensive tone mapping and HDFury for its Swiss army knife programmability (the green info text it outputs prompted my kids to comment that I had hacked the signal, which is kind of what it does). I got the two for $700 combined.

Pros of the HT9060:

1. Brightness and punch. The image thrown by my previous projector, and most commercial theaters, for that matter, is lifeless and dull by comparison. I'm still using the HP screen. It can be a bit too bright for some SDR content, but I'm on the fence about replacing it since it has such great pop on most content. That, combined with the color range & sharpness, produces an addicting palpability in the image and to the cinematic experience.

2. Sharpness. While my Sony projected a painting-like image the BenQ throws something much more photo realistic. It really draws you into the content. Using the ATV4K for slide shows of photos is quite an experience and really shows off the sharpness (and color rendition).

3. Color. Even uncalibrated, with the current settings I can't point to anything that seems off about its colors. In fact, that's another aspect that makes this projector so compelling and realistic in its rendering of an image. The colors are simply beautiful and must be seen first hand -- miles away from what my Sony produced.

4. Price. For me, being solid state and throwing such a fine image provides great value. There is indeed competition in its price range, of course, but for me the BenQ won out, especially given its reputation for unit-to-unit consistency. From my experiences with 3-panel technology and compromised optics I was very reluctant to take another risk at having to live with a sub-par sample. As I've said before, the BenQ is razor sharp edge to edge. The QBF pattern confirms this.

Cons of the HT9060, and they are minor:

1. It's louder than the Sony. That said, the Sony is whisper quiet. With the projector about 6 feet behind us it can be heard when no content is playing. But once a movie or show starts I don't notice it.

2. Under certain conditions I can see RBE. Here's what I wrote previously: Sounds like most people don’t see any at all, but I must be super sensitive because I see some RBE when my eyes move quickly across the screen and there’s very high contrast white-on-black, like with the progress bar on some players when the image is paused. I never see it when viewing content normally, only as in my example where the movie is paused and I turn to speak to my wife or kids. So, I’m fairly certain a color wheel DLP is out of the question for me. That said, the minor RBE I experience in these instances does not bother me at all.

3. The lens cap fits very snugly, so care must be taken when removing it and putting it back on. This is compounded by the fact that a very slight turn of the lens changes focus significantly. The Sony had plastic tabs around its dust cap for a snug fit, which were easy to snap off for a loose fit. The HT9060 dust cover provides no such option, so care is required -- and the occasional re-focus.

That's it. FYI, I have not seen the JVCs for comparison, nor have I viewed that scene from Interstellar on this projector. I watched it once on the Sony. Not my cup of tea: kind of like if Terrence Malick did Sci-Fi. But I do own both Blade Runner films in 4K, and while they don't show as well as Oblivion, which looks amazing with this projector, I don't notice anything objectionable with those films, either. I'm sure the JVCs do much better with them, but I'm holding out for a solid state pj with JVC contrast and a comparably good lens, all in the BenQ's price range. At this rate it looks like I'll be happy with the BenQ for five years or more.

Had to laugh about complaint #1 . Nearly anything you buy today will be louder than an HW30.
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post #1547 of 1701 Old 06-13-2019, 06:34 PM
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Since I've benefited so much from the great information shared on this forum I'd like to share my perspectives and experiences regarding the HT9060
Nice write-up, Steve.

So, are you able to use the UB820 and HD Fury together where you can set the 820 to SDR BT2020 and get the projector to show BT2020 color, meaning the 820 is doing the tone-mapping?

I ask because I have a different player and when I turn off HDR in the player and set it to SDR BT2020, the projector defaults to SDR Rec 709 color.

Thanks in advance.
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Nice write-up, Steve.

So, are you able to use the UB820 and HD Fury together where you can set the 820 to SDR BT2020 and get the projector to show BT2020 color, meaning the 820 is doing the tone-mapping?

I ask because I have a different player and when I turn off HDR in the player and set it to SDR BT2020, the projector defaults to SDR Rec 709 color.

Thanks in advance.
With this config the projector INFORMATION tab shows HDR Off, Color System YUV, and Color Gamut BT.2020. And in this case the HDFury is redundant since it's operating in passthrough.
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With this config the projector INFORMATION tab shows HDR Off, Color System YUV, and Color Gamut BT.2020. And in this case the HDFury is redundant since it's operating in passthrough.
Sorry, I'm a little confused because the projector showing YUV could be at Rec 709. So, are you actually seeing DCI P3 color in the BT2020 container in the projector when your UB820 is set to SDR BT2020 or is the color washed out in the projector?

If you are getting the wider color, then it seems just using the 820 will give you BT2020 color space communication.
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Sorry, I'm a little confused because the projector showing YUV could be at Rec 709. So, are you actually seeing DCI P3 color in the BT2020 container in the projector when your UB820 is set to SDR BT2020 or is the color washed out in the projector?

If you are getting the wider color, then it seems just using the 820 will give you BT2020 color space communication.
I can only say what the projector is reporting in its INFORMATION tab. HDFury says the signal is 4K 24p 4:4:4 BT2020 12bit SDR @ 445MHz, so it has sufficient bit depth. Maybe HDFury will tell me more if I hook it up to a PC and run the GUI app, but I will have to check that when I get a spare moment.
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I can only say what the projector is reporting in its INFORMATION tab. HDFury says the signal is 4K 24p 4:4:4 BT2020 12bit SDR @ 445MHz, so it has sufficient bit depth. Maybe HDFury will tell me more if I hook it up to a PC and run the GUI app, but I will have to check that when I get a spare moment.
The HD Fury will read the signal correctly even if the HDR flag is not checked. But when the 9060 receives a signal other than HDR, it will not accept SDR BT2020 in general.

Okay, can you try this and report back. Set the player to HDR on and then pull up the projector menu. The purple color in the projector's menu window will be deeply saturated. Now, with your settings set the player to SDR BT2020; pull up the same menu window with the projector in any picture mode OTHER than Vivid. Is the purple still saturated?
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The HD Fury will read the signal correctly even if the HDR flag is not checked. But when the 9060 receives a signal other than HDR, it will not accept SDR BT2020 in general.

Okay, can you try this and report back. Set the player to HDR on and then pull up the projector menu. The purple color in the projector's menu window will be deeply saturated. Now, with your settings set the player to SDR BT2020; pull up the same menu window with the projector in any picture mode OTHER than Vivid. Is the purple still saturated?
By saturated, do you mean that the menu borders look almost hot pink? With HDR sent from the player it's almost hot pink. With the settings I described the menu border is purple. But with HDR the colors look unnatural on actual material, and it has a strong red push, IMO. With my settings the colors look much more natural to my eyes.
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By saturated, do you mean that the menu borders look almost hot pink? With HDR sent from the player it's almost hot pink. With the settings I described the menu border is purple. But with HDR the colors look unnatural on actual material, and it has a strong red push, IMO. With my settings the colors look much more natural to my eyes.
Steve, it sounds like you're displaying Rec 709 with the UHD discs with the UB820 set to SDR. Maybe try calibrating Vivid to DCI-P3 and just use that with a power gamma of 2.4 when the 820 is set to SDR and you can set the sliders in the player to avoid crushing black?
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Steve, it sounds like you're displaying Rec 709 with the UHD discs with the UB820 set to SDR. Maybe try calibrating Vivid to DCI-P3 and just use that with a power gamma of 2.4 when the 820 is set to SDR and you can set the sliders in the player to avoid crushing black?
Thanks for the suggestion and info. I'll make note of it and give it a shot when I have more time. For the most part I've been using the BenQ in plug-and-play mode, and even then I think its image looks great.
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Since I've benefited so much from the great information shared on this forum I'd like to share my perspectives and experiences regarding the HT9060 -- all at the risk of being ridiculed for my taste, ignorance, and particular eye-brain perceptual abilities. We've had an HT9060 for about two months now and love it. That said, I should shed some light on my path to this purchase: I got into HT in the early 2000's with an LCD Sanyo/Boxlight 768p projector. It threw a bright picture but with poor contrast, so I paired it with a Stewart GrayHawk screen. Even bought a Lumagen to scale content for the pj's native resolution. However, it did not have sealed light path, so dust blobs were a persistent problem. Along came the Sony Ruby, promising high contrast 1080p in all its glory. It was expensive at $10k, but I figured it would be a good long-term investment. The first unit arrived with its panels off by over 2 pixels. Had to fight with Sony for a replacement since they were claiming 2 pixels is within spec. Finally won with the help of my (AVS) dealer. The replacement was "only" off by 1 pixel, so I had to live with it. (The Ruby had no "convergence correction" function, FWIW.) On top of that, the unit broke down 3 or 4 times and had to be boxed up and shipped off to Laredo, TX each time for repair, on my dime. After that experience I vowed never to buy a big ticket item from Sony again. But some years later I jumped at a Sony HW30 that could be obtained for $3k and had been set up and verified by an AVS salesperson. The HW30, although throwing a fairly dim, soft image served me well until now. To somewhat boost its brightness and punch I matched it with a DA-LITE 2.4 gain HP screen. Fast forward to CEDIA 2018 and the 4K JVC announcements. Watching JVC's rollout issues, not to mention being disappointed that even their relatively expensive NX9 is lamp based, and then hearing good things about the various solid state BenQ models, I decided to take a serious look at them. But with a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen and no way to go bigger, the LKs seemed overkill.

For my screen size the HT9060 seemed an obvious choice among the BenQ models, and I got it for a great price, so I decided to take a chance on it sight unseen (there was little chance I'd get to see one in person anytime soon). So far, I have to say we are delighted with it. Remember, I'm coming from a fairly ancient HW30. Also note that we average about one movie per week and otherwise watch shows streamed in 1080p, upscaled by our devices:
- Panasonic UB820
- Roku Ultra
- ATV4K
The output of all of all these goes into an HDFury Integral 2, where chroma is upsampled to 4:4:4 (as necessary for the source input), per recommendations to avoid banding. That's the objective, at least.

I run the projector in Cinema mode w/SmartEco and have not gotten it calibrated yet as I'm still undecided as to whether I want to change the screen material.

At the moment I'm also not sure which device I prefer for streaming. It may be the ATV4K since it has the option to output 24p content at native rate. I may change my mind on that, though.

My room is light controlled but not a bat cave by any stretch. The walls are painted pomegranate red and the ceiling/doors/trim a very dark grey. There's no black velvet anywhere, and the flooring is light bamboo. Seating is a little less than 1.2 screen-width away.

We use the UB820 for HDR content, of course. On the Panny I enable the HDR Optimizer with Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. set to -5. I eyeballed the setting using some dark scenes to determine which setting revealed the most detail and had the least amount of haze. Presumably, anyone with lower screen gain would use a higher value or leave it at 0. Thanks to Kris Deering for this suggestion. Compared to the projector's handing of HDR, colors seem more natural, and overall picture quality appears improved by letting the Panasonic do the tone mapping and output SDR. With this setting, 4K 24p content on the Panasonic arrives at the projector as 4K 24p 4:4:4 BT2020 12bit SDR @ 445MHz. How do I know this for sure? The HDFury tells me. Note that, with this input the HDFury operates as passthrough. (As an aside, the UB820 outputting BT2020 for SDR raises the question as to why it's a problem for the projector to not allow a gamut change in this mode. Wouldn't this involve an undesirable conversion at the projector when we have sources that provide this flexibility?)

With this projector I definitely recommend the UB820 for its inexpensive tone mapping and HDFury for its Swiss army knife programmability (the green info text it outputs prompted my kids to comment that I had hacked the signal, which is kind of what it does). I got the two for $700 combined.

Pros of the HT9060:

1. Brightness and punch. The image thrown by my previous projector, and most commercial theaters, for that matter, is lifeless and dull by comparison. I'm still using the HP screen. It can be a bit too bright for some SDR content, but I'm on the fence about replacing it since it has such great pop on most content. That, combined with the color range & sharpness, produces an addicting palpability in the image and to the cinematic experience.

2. Sharpness. While my Sony projected a painting-like image the BenQ throws something much more photo realistic. It really draws you into the content. Using the ATV4K for slide shows of photos is quite an experience and really shows off the sharpness (and color rendition).

3. Color. Even uncalibrated, with the current settings I can't point to anything that seems off about its colors. In fact, that's another aspect that makes this projector so compelling and realistic in its rendering of an image. The colors are simply beautiful and must be seen first hand -- miles away from what my Sony produced.

4. Price. For me, being solid state and throwing such a fine image provides great value. There is indeed competition in its price range, of course, but for me the BenQ won out, especially given its reputation for unit-to-unit consistency. From my experiences with 3-panel technology and compromised optics I was very reluctant to take another risk at having to live with a sub-par sample. As I've said before, the BenQ is razor sharp edge to edge. The QBF pattern confirms this.

Cons of the HT9060, and they are minor:

1. It's louder than the Sony. That said, the Sony is whisper quiet. With the projector about 6 feet behind us it can be heard when no content is playing. But once a movie or show starts I don't notice it.

2. Under certain conditions I can see RBE. Here's what I wrote previously: Sounds like most people don’t see any at all, but I must be super sensitive because I see some RBE when my eyes move quickly across the screen and there’s very high contrast white-on-black, like with the progress bar on some players when the image is paused. I never see it when viewing content normally, only as in my example where the movie is paused and I turn to speak to my wife or kids. So, I’m fairly certain a color wheel DLP is out of the question for me. That said, the minor RBE I experience in these instances does not bother me at all.

3. The lens cap fits very snugly, so care must be taken when removing it and putting it back on. This is compounded by the fact that a very slight turn of the lens changes focus significantly. The Sony had plastic tabs around its dust cap for a snug fit, which were easy to snap off for a loose fit. The HT9060 dust cover provides no such option, so care is required -- and the occasional re-focus.

That's it. FYI, I have not seen the JVCs for comparison, nor have I viewed that scene from Interstellar on this projector. I watched it once on the Sony. Not my cup of tea: kind of like if Terrence Malick did Sci-Fi. But I do own both Blade Runner films in 4K, and while they don't show as well as Oblivion, which looks amazing with this projector, I don't notice anything objectionable with those films, either. I'm sure the JVCs do much better with them, but I'm holding out for a solid state pj with JVC contrast and a comparably good lens, all in the BenQ's price range. At this rate it looks like I'll be happy with the BenQ for five years or more.
Congrats on the new projector You should not bother reinstalling the lens cap each time. It's more just for shipping. Even my RS4500 has a bare lens.

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Yep, that is why you have to look at the scenes that are tougher to reproduce, to see what a projector can do. If you were only going to look at bright animation, then it would be much harder to tell the difference with many projectors.

But that is just it, for most, it simply doesn't matter. And for those it does matter to, they have numerous tools and ways to go about optimising what they see. Or optimising the numbers and then convincing themselves it is 100% better.....

Agreed re animation movies etc.

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But that is just it, for most, it simply doesn't matter. And for those it does matter to, they have numerous tools and ways to go about optimising what they see. Or optimising the numbers and then convincing themselves it is 100% better.....

Agreed re animation movies etc.
If it simply doesn't matter, then why bother doing a comparison? If a person is going to argue that it simply doesn't matter to them, I am perfectly fine with that. But if you're going to actually do a comparison you should do it right. Same goes for professional reviewers. I'll see a review that raves on blacks being great on projector X and the photos they show is some sort of night time city scene that doesn't even test for black.

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If it simply doesn't matter, then why bother doing a comparison? If a person is going to argue that it simply doesn't matter to them, I am perfectly fine with that. But if you're going to actually do a comparison you should do it right. Same goes for professional reviewers. I'll see a review that raves on blacks being great on projector X and the photos they show is some sort of night time city scene that doesn't even test for black.
Don't know about any comparisons, (I believe ARROW started this thread anyway, not Dave) I am just remarking on the fact that as his settings didn't follow 'the rules' they were simply deemed wrong regardless of the actual resultant image to the naked eye.

Any professional reviewers NEED to do comparisons with every unit using standard methods, that is very important.
BUT if, after that, there is a way of showing that x unit can be dialled in to produce an acceptable image using non standard methods then I think they owe it to people to mention it.

Even now most people buy projectors and don't get them calibrated, they just expect that the manufacturer has done their job and dialled it in before shipping and will accept what they see (possibly with a little tweaking to the normal settings).

People on here (especially those with their 'nose to the pixels', so-to-speak, are very much in a subset of a minority of the TV viewing public. And moreover they are likely NOT to buy a device that doesn't tick ALL the boxes such as this anyway.

So instead of telling to people avoid that rubbish as it doesn't hit xx numbers or yy numbers, let them be and carry on enjoying your own devices.

Giving advice is NOT the same as imposing one's will. Advice s a gift that may or may not be accepted. Imposing one's will is a diktat.

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Don't know about any comparisons, (I believe ARROW started this thread anyway, not Dave) I am just remarking on the fact that as his settings didn't follow 'the rules' they were simply deemed wrong regardless of the actual resultant image to the naked eye.

Any professional reviewers NEED to do comparisons with every unit using standard methods, that is very important.
BUT if, after that, there is a way of showing that x unit can be dialled in to produce an acceptable image using non standard methods then I think they owe it to people to mention it.

Even now most people buy projectors and don't get them calibrated, they just expect that the manufacturer has done their job and dialled it in before shipping and will accept what they see (possibly with a little tweaking to the normal settings).

People on here (especially those with their 'nose to the pixels', so-to-speak, are very much in a subset of a minority of the TV viewing public. And moreover they are likely NOT to buy a device that doesn't tick ALL the boxes such as this anyway.

So instead of telling to people avoid that rubbish as it doesn't hit xx numbers or yy numbers, let them be and carry on enjoying your own devices.

Giving advice is NOT the same as imposing one's will. Advice s a gift that may or may not be accepted. Imposing one's will is a diktat.
His settings were deemed "wrong" for several reasons. One is that no settings can magically lower the black floor of a 1000:1 projector. Another was that dynamic tone mapping like madVR were far better than his settings. His settings weren't even calibration settings done via calibration tools. Instead, they were simply ways to set the user menus with the sliders. Each projector is different so what brightness setting or gamma setting I need on mine may not even match what someone else needs on his. I mean if every projector was identical, the optimal settings could be done at the factory and you wouldn't need sliders for anything. So to say that you have to apply his magic settings and that's the *only* way the projector looks its best is a load of baloney.

His settings were perhaps a good guide to start with then to tweak. But then anyone that knew anything about performance that tried his settings and discovered that they weren't great, well that person was just biased or had an agenda. And that would continue on until it came back around to "well you're not really using my settings".

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You know I bought dave harper's LK970 right? And I told him that this will be used in SDR mode so do all your settings to make that look the best possible. So I'm confident we saw everything the LK970 had to offer with Dave's settings. My friend still loves the LK970.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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