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post #1 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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New Projector Buyers - Caveat Emptor

In order to remove the ongoing product commentary from various projector owner threads, maybe we could use this thread for the posting of both positive and cautionary non owner comments.
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post #2 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, thanks for visiting. I'll start the ball rolling.

While i don't want to unnecessarily antagonize, i believe JVC wishes they could have had a better roll out of the new 4k projector models.

I suggested back in the fall, the new product release could see its fair share of birthing pangs, but was summarily dismissed by at least one dealer representative, suggesting experience with the rs4500 was more than enough for JVC to avoid issues with the new models. WRONG! But i think we all know WHY shooting down any cautionary comments was done, for dealers to secure more pre-order sales. Had there been more realistic expectations for the roll out, i suspect a number pre order sales might have been delayed, and a fewer number of projectors sold by owners placing pre-sales orders.

My complaint, AVS is not supposed to be a vehicle to be used by dealers to maximize product sales. Especially when the pre sales effort coincides with any misinformation or a withholding of information.

Is the new JVC roll out any better or worse than previous model introductions? Maybe not, especially if you try to compare the rs4500 and Z1, because of the general quantity of units sold. The higher quantity of the nx5, 7 and 9 might well present a greater number of affected units, even if as a percentage they be a fewer number of units.

While i know others disagree, but if i were inclined to purchase the nx5, 7 or 9, i would wait until a month or so went by after the final firmware fix was successfully implimented and no new units were being delivered with challenges. Or even at this point, maybe until we see what Cedia reveals this fall. Then again i have something in place to hold me over. Others that need to get a projector in place and do not want too purchase a hold over option, will need to navigate the possibility of what they will receive.

I just finished seeing both the sony 885es and 995es, and they were both excellent. I'll see a rs4500 next week.

I also just bought an isco 3L anamorphic lens rig from an avs member, to see how it will enhance my current projector, and the isco could also carry over to a projector upgrade.

Bottom line, i feel AVS has a little too much positive sales spin and obfuscation from some quarters, and until that changes, buyers need to seek independant information or be prepared to discover the truth only after they have become an owner.

Dont be too eager to take the leap. Use your common sense and be patient. Is a small pre sales discount really worth the current fiasco from JVC?


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post #3 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 01:05 PM
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post #4 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 04:37 PM
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Agree with the concept for a separate thread. However, the discussion got a bit silly in the owner's thread on speculation over defect rate. The fact is we do not know if the defect rate is 1 percent, 5 percent, or even 50 percent. There is no statistically viable sample, forget valid sample size. The only thing that is well known is that forum complaints are NOT a valid measuring tool.

I do data/analytics for a living, so this makes me laugh
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post #5 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Dont be too eager to take the leap. Use your common sense and be patient. Is a small pre sales discount really worth the current fiasco from JVC?
For me, yes. I'm willing to take the risk given my current situation. Hey, we all have different situations with our current projectors, financial circumstances, preferences, ages, life stages, value systems, and so on. And we're all adults. Moreover, I would submit that the overwhelming majority of people who populate this forum and who have some experience with projectors or complex AV products know the pros and cons and risks and benefits of buying a new model projector like the JVC native 4k units.

So if someone wants to take the risk and deal with initial problems and possible firmware updates and/or the replacement program, that's their choice. Nobody else can really judge that. And if someone wants to hold off because their daddy always told them never to buy the first year of a new model car, that's fine too. That can't really be judged as crazy. But we're not children and we can make our own decisions. We don't need to be "warned" by those who are looking out for us because they "like us." (And this last paragraph is NOT directed at anything you've said.)
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post #6 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Ok, thanks for visiting. I'll start the ball rolling.



My complaint, AVS is not supposed to be a vehicle to be used by dealers to maximize product sales. Especially when the pre sales effort coincides with any misinformation or a withholding of information.

Bottom line, i feel AVS has a little too much positive sales spin and obfuscation from some quarters, and until that changes, buyers need to seek independant information or be prepared to discover the truth only after they have become an owner.

Dont be too eager to take the leap. Use your common sense and be patient. Is a small pre sales discount really worth the current fiasco from JVC?

Are you going to point out that you aren't exactly a neutral party? You are known to have an axe to grind with JVC. You yourself used to sell JVC projectors, did you not ?

I don't know anyone that's withholding information, other than JVC not knowing or telling when projectors will ship. There are plenty of new JVC projectors out now in people's hands to get a good feel for what kind of picture they throw, and what bugs and glitches they may have. Early adopters put up with initial bugginess but save 10%. That's the risk and trade off.

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post #7 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Are you going to point out that you aren't exactly a neutral party? You are known to have an axe to grind with JVC.
I did have a serious problem with Fred Zecha. He did not treat me appropriately as a customer and has yet to apologize. I would not call it having an axe to grind. Rather, I'd say his actions had and continue to have meritorious consequences, but labeling those consequences as having an axe to grind, characterizes the circumstances in a manner which portrays Fred and JVC in a positive light. Maybe you agree how Fred treated me was honorable and good public policy for JVC. On the other hand, I would not wish my experience on anyone, and continue to use my experience as a cautionary tale, for the range of customer support one can expect from JVC. And again, not an axe to grind, but rather consequences for the inexcusable and disparate treatment I received. Sort of a different kind of JVC lottery.

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You yourself used to sell JVC projectors, did you not ?
I did help a friend and I paid the penalty, and as result and I have subsequently modified my posting behavior. But given that Mike said YOU had nothing to do with that whole situation, you seem to know a bit more than you should?

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I don't know anyone that's withholding information, other than JVC not knowing or telling when projectors will ship. There are plenty of new JVC projectors out now in people's hands to get a good feel for what kind of picture they throw, and what bugs and glitches they may have. Early adopters put up with initial bugginess but save 10%. That's the risk and trade off.
Sorry, but I think you are mistaking me for someone ill informed enough to actually believe those comments. However, the comments are consistent with the routine narrative in a chaos situation. Nothing to see here. Right?

In any case, I can still imagine the conversations we all had when you were still one of US, an HT enthusiast. What happened? I know, you're still an HT enthusiast. Please pardon me for saying I miss the old Craig who used to help keep things REAL around here.
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post #8 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 06:09 PM
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This is too silly to even exist here. Nothing constructive will come from it.

/End thread.
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post #9 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

In any case, I can still imagine the conversations we all had when you were still one of US, an HT enthusiast. What happened? I know, you're still an HT enthusiast. Please pardon me for saying I miss the old Craig who used to help keep things REAL around here.
I built my own theater, bought all my own equipment, and have 3 - 5 movie nights a week with friends. And am doing my part to keep physical media alive. And I'm willing to spend the bucks for new projectors when something great and new comes along - for the last 17 years. I earned my " HT Enthusiast " merit badge a long time ago.

Native 4K projectors with built in HDR tone mapping is still " bleeding edge ". Not every feature will be perfect at first. I've lived at the " bleeding edge " of home theater for 17 years. The projectors always work, and it's always been a fun hobby. If you don't like bleeding edge, buy an Epson 5040.

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post #10 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 09:25 PM
 
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New Projector Buyers - Caveat Emptor

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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
This is too silly to even exist here. Nothing constructive will come from it.

/End thread.

While probably true, would you have actually posted the same thing were it directed at Sony, or God forbid a (gasp) DLP manufacturer?

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post #11 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 09:27 PM
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While probably true, would you have actually posted the same hung were it directed at Sony, or God forbid a (gasp) DLP manufacturer?
Yes I would Dave,

Read between the lines mate, this thread is directed at people not a brand.
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post #12 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 09:29 PM
 
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New Projector Buyers - Caveat Emptor

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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Yes I would Dave,

Read between the lines mate, this thread is directed at people not a brand.

OK I guess I’ll have to take your word for it, but previous experience here says otherwise (not you specifically BTW).

And the brand just so happens to be JVC.

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post #13 of 218 Old 02-15-2019, 10:14 PM
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OK I guess I’ll have to take your word for it, but previous experience here says otherwise (not you specifically BTW).

And the brand just so happens to be JVC.
Go and read my thoughts on the 9900's I had if you havent already... you can find them on the first page of that relevant thread.

I would critisize whatever piece of electronics I had if it presented any issues, doenst really matter what brand is on the box. Interestingly in that one case, it also cost me sales and thus money in the pocket which is the truth. But I wasnt going to hold back on what I saw. I will always be an enthusiast first and foremost, all the rest is just academic, its not a serious endeavour for me in the slightest.

Ive owned a Sony, it was a great projector! My first actually... I had an issue with my first and had to have it swapped, no big deal, I would own one again, but in the past few years there were global issues stopping me from doing so. Seems like they are on the way to solving them though (Degradation, Posterization)... JVC has many of their own. Some of them are actually being highlighted this time around as if they are completely new issues but they are not...

The only thing I absolutely agree with is, dont spit your dummy on brand new models there are absolutely going to be teething problems. Also, never sweep issues under the rug, its actually how you get problems solved, by highlighting them.

Hell, if Sony listened and sorted out posterization once and for all (they may have with the 595ES according to Seegs; Havent seen it myself) then its job well done at the end of the day...

My interactions on this forum usually come from either misinformation (which I will astutely correct or challenge) or issues that actually exist. Ive been mocked for bringing them up, made fun of for it, but it is what it is. What you dont see me doing is making a thread essentially inviting argument, which is all this thread has managed to do so far. Members on both side of the brand fence have done that, I am not one of them.

Anyway, I know you are actually pretty on the level these days Dave, so, all good here.
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post #14 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Go and read my thoughts on the 9900's I had if you havent already... you can find them on the first page of that relevant thread.
I remember. Your posts were objective, to say the least. Oh how I really liked the X990...great lens and convergence on mine but as you knew, tone mapping the new format was a chore. And I remember how you took the time to help many with your Javs' curves.

But I also remember Bytehoven taking the time and making his efforts there too, for those who had trouble uploading the curves or having other issues. Both of you were a great asset there. I suppose here you are parting company on this score.

I don't know, I thought he was just starting this thread for a consumer's perspective. Anyway, recall that I cancelled my NX9 order and didn't subscribe.
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post #15 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 08:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Go and read my thoughts on the 9900's I had if you havent already... you can find them on the first page of that relevant thread.

I would critisize whatever piece of electronics I had if it presented any issues, doenst really matter what brand is on the box. Interestingly in that one case, it also cost me sales and thus money in the pocket which is the truth. But I wasnt going to hold back on what I saw. I will always be an enthusiast first and foremost, all the rest is just academic, its not a serious endeavour for me in the slightest.

Ive owned a Sony, it was a great projector! My first actually... I had an issue with my first and had to have it swapped, no big deal, I would own one again, but in the past few years there were global issues stopping me from doing so. Seems like they are on the way to solving them though (Degradation, Posterization)... JVC has many of their own. Some of them are actually being highlighted this time around as if they are completely new issues but they are not...

The only thing I absolutely agree with is, dont spit your dummy on brand new models there are absolutely going to be teething problems. Also, never sweep issues under the rug, its actually how you get problems solved, by highlighting them.

Hell, if Sony listened and sorted out posterization once and for all (they may have with the 595ES according to Seegs; Havent seen it myself) then its job well done at the end of the day...

My interactions on this forum usually come from either misinformation (which I will astutely correct or challenge) or issues that actually exist. Ive been mocked for bringing them up, made fun of for it, but it is what it is. What you dont see me doing is making a thread essentially inviting argument, which is all this thread has managed to do so far. Members on both side of the brand fence have done that, I am not one of them.

Anyway, I know you are actually pretty on the level these days Dave, so, all good here.

I know and agree. I respect your posts and positions immensely here. That’s why I added the “not you specifically” part.

Keep up the good work, sir!
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post #16 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 10:28 AM
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Greetings guys,

Well in my case I think I can post whatever I choose as I do-not represent JVC, Sony, Epson or any other brand of projectors.

I actually think this thread could be useful for those that don't mind airing their personal comments, feelings in the open.

Speaking for ONLY (Myself) here is my take on this AVS Internet Site.
There are without any doubts at all a separation between JVC & Sony-Epson and other manufacturers.
The above is not an opinion it's actually obvious to any member that spends a lot of time on this site.
And from my prospective there are members on this site that just luv to prove their point of view is correct.
And they will go to any length to prove their point of view is correct.

Okay, enough of the above and maybe to much really ............

Speaking of the new three (3) lamp based projectors recently introduced.
And of course this is nothing more than my (Opinion).
Either buy/purchase one of them now or wait whatever length of time one deems necessary before buying/purchasing.
The above is actually the only real two (2) options ...........
All the battling, arguing, bitching, moaning, complaining for hundreds upon hundreds of posts actually accomplishes exactly what ???
NOTHING at all ...............

Lastly, go with one of the JVC New Projectors or choose one of the Sony's or even possibly the Epson it's your monies and ultimately your choice.

And for those that have not a clue who I am and why I think my opinions are important ???
I am a 73 year old guy that's been into the Home Theater things for more years than the majority of you have been alive.
And I can assure you I've spent in the thousands upon thousands over and over and over as the years have gone by.
I have been SCREWED by so called Audio-Video Professionals over those years as many of you more than likely have.
All that means is I have paid in some cases dearly to know what to watch out for and even then I still can easily make the wrong decision.
I finally have a totally 100% completed Home Theater that works exactly as it should, finally.
And believe me that took a heck of a lot of my personal time researching, talking, with multiple people and luckily for me some were actually Professionals.

I'll give those reading this post some totally FREE advise and suggestions on the Home Theater thing.
If in (DOUBT) then simply don't do it !!!

Good-Luck guys,
Terry
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Last edited by tigerhonaker; 02-17-2019 at 10:20 AM. Reason: What else, spelling of course ..........
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post #17 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't know, I thought he was just starting this thread for a consumer's perspective. Anyway, recall that I cancelled my NX9 order and didn't subscribe.
I started this thread to help get some of the non owner posts out of the owner threads. Just as owners are asking.

However, i welcome mods to close it down if it be inappropriate.
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post #18 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 10:56 AM
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I have an impulse buy problem at times, including A/V equipment. That's common here on this forum for sure. It's fun.

For some reason though, not with projectors. I'm more than fine waiting for things to sort out.

I have no doubt these JVC projectors are terrific. But I know the NEXT version will be damn near perfect.

Then, I'll pounce after waiting a couple of months after that release.
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
I have an impulse buy problem at times, including A/V equipment. That's common here on this forum for sure. It's fun.

For some reason though, not with projectors. I'm more than fine waiting for things to sort out.

I have no doubt these JVC projectors are terrific. But I know the NEXT version will be damn near perfect.

Then, I'll pounce after waiting a couple of months after that release.
Erod,

Smart decision IMO buddy ............
You notice I didn't instantly jump on the RS4500.
By waiting all the little areas of concern were all taken care of (Before) I purchased.

T.
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post #20 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 11:57 AM
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I started this thread to help get some of the non owner posts out of the owner threads. Just as owners are asking.

However, i welcome mods to close it down if it be inappropriate.
Oh, I see. Thanks for clarifying.
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post #21 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 01:41 PM
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All the battling, arguing, bitching, moaning, complaining for hundreds upon hundreds of posts actually accomplishes exactly what ???
NOTHING at all ...............
A very profound and true statement. If only people would heed it. At the root of it is human pride, which leads to, among other things, defensiveness and attacking others if anybody says something negative about your favorite projector or projector vendor, to a judgmental attitude if another person makes a choice than is different than the one you would make, and to self-rationalization if someone is enjoying something that you can't afford or chose not to purchase for whatever reason.. In the movie The Devil's Advocate, Al Pacino could have just as easily said: "Pride, definitely my favorite sin."

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Lastly, go with one of the JVC New Projectors or choose one of the Sony's or even possibly the Epson it's your monies and ultimately your choice.
Yes. Do what you think is best for YOU. There seems to be a desire on the part of many on this forum to suggest to others that their preferences or idiosyncrasies are "wrong." That's crazy.

And people need to gain some perspective. It's a freakin' hobby, for crying out loud. If you're new projector has a defect and you have to deal with it, it ain't comparable to your new baby being born with a serious heart issue or a family member getting cancer.

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post #22 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 02:00 PM
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Greetings guys,

I am a 73 year old guy that's been into the Home Theater things for more years than the majority of you have been alive.

Terry
Greetings to you too, Terry.

I'm glad you're enjoying your AV equipment. I know sometimes the brand debates here get a bit hectic, and I'm sure you'd rather grab your popcorn and sit in front of your projector screen rather than in front of your computer screen.

By the way, I don't know if you've heard but some are saying 73 is the new 63.
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post #23 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 02:09 PM
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it ain't comparable to your new baby being born with a serious heart issue or a family member getting cancer.
Depends which family member

I buy projectors rarely, don't want the hassle of buy/sell/buy/sell.

I would buy an Epson but I'd be crying tears in the shape of pixelated SDE.
Sony's have had so many issues that I would be hard pressed to try one unless I paid less than $1000.

Plus I want the good black levels, makes everything more enjoyable.
I have to spend countless hours blacking out my new HT room again, so not wanting mediocre contrast after all the work.

So that leaves JVC, it's really the only viable candidate for most of us.

So I can actually understand the frustration even if people don't always articulate their frustration correctly.
The fact is many of us are plainly and nearly purely stuck in the JVC camp.

The biggest issue I have is I'm tired of messing with lamps (both the headache of it, the inconsistent brightness, and the cost).
However, I haven't seen any laser projector near my lowish budget that would be worthy for myself to even bother using.
Being RBE sensitive, the Optoma isn't even on the plate.

If I pull the trigger on another lamp-based projector, I want to make sure the issues are mostly worked out, since I'll have to keep buying lamps.

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post #24 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Depends which family member

I buy projectors rarely, don't want the hassle of buy/sell/buy/sell.

I would buy an Epson but I'd be crying tears in the shape of pixelated SDE.
Sony's have had so many issues that I would be hard pressed to try one unless I paid less than $1000.

Plus I want the good black levels, makes everything more enjoyable.
I have to spend countless hours blacking out my new HT room again, so not wanting mediocre contrast after all the work.

So that leaves JVC, it's really the only viable candidate for most of us.

So I can actually understand the frustration even if people don't always articulate their frustration correctly.
The fact is many of us are plainly and nearly purely stuck in the JVC camp.

The biggest issue I have is I'm tired of messing with lamps (both the headache of it, the inconsistent brightness, and the cost).
However, I haven't seen any laser projector near my lowish budget that would be worthy for myself to even bother using.
Being RBE sensitive, the Optoma isn't even on the plate.

If I pull the trigger on another lamp-based projector, I want to make sure the issues are mostly worked out, since I'll have to keep buying lamps.
I'm in a very similar situation to you…I'd like to upgrade from my JVC 4910, but I see all the problems they have with the new ones for multiples of what I spent on mine…and I think about how pleasant a picture mine still throws, even on my second bulb. I think about buying one of the last year model JVCs, but I don't want to fight HDR and tone-mapping issues… I am not RBE sensitive so laser DLPs are an option for me, but I haven't seen one yet in person and I'm skeptical that they're anywhere near the 60K:1 contrast of the pj I'm used to. If the next generation JVC is either significantly less problematic or much less expensive…I'm in!

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post #25 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pottscb View Post
I'm in a very similar situation to you…I'd like to upgrade from my JVC 4910, but I see all the problems they have with the new ones for multiples of what I spent on mine…and I think about how pleasant a picture mine still throws, even on my second bulb. I think about buying one of the last year model JVCs, but I don't want to fight HDR and tone-mapping issues… I am not RBE sensitive so laser DLPs are an option for me, but I haven't seen one yet in person and I'm skeptical that they're anywhere near the 60K:1 contrast of the pj I'm used to. If the next generation JVC is either significantly less problematic or much less expensive…I'm in!

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I know of quite a few folks with RS1000's, RS2000's and RS3000's that aren't having any issues, and are thrilled with the picture. What bugs there are I'm sure will be easily corrected by firmware updates - like my RS4500 was. Unless there's a problem caused by shipping damage - those need to be replaced.

But at this point you have no choice but wait. There aren't enough new projectors available.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
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post #26 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 11:08 PM
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Ok, thanks for visiting. I'll start the ball rolling.

While i don't want to unnecessarily antagonize, i believe JVC wishes they could have had a better roll out of the new 4k projector models.

I suggested back in the fall, the new product release could see its fair share of birthing pangs, but was summarily dismissed by at least one dealer representative, suggesting experience with the rs4500 was more than enough for JVC to avoid issues with the new models. WRONG! But i think we all know WHY shooting down any cautionary comments was done, for dealers to secure more pre-order sales. Had there been more realistic expectations for the roll out, i suspect a number pre order sales might have been delayed, and a fewer number of projectors sold by owners placing pre-sales orders.

My complaint, AVS is not supposed to be a vehicle to be used by dealers to maximize product sales. Especially when the pre sales effort coincides with any misinformation or a withholding of information.

Is the new JVC roll out any better or worse than previous model introductions? Maybe not, especially if you try to compare the rs4500 and Z1, because of the general quantity of units sold. The higher quantity of the nx5, 7 and 9 might well present a greater number of affected units, even if as a percentage they be a fewer number of units.

While i know others disagree, but if i were inclined to purchase the nx5, 7 or 9, i would wait until a month or so went by after the final firmware fix was successfully implimented and no new units were being delivered with challenges. Or even at this point, maybe until we see what Cedia reveals this fall. Then again i have something in place to hold me over. Others that need to get a projector in place and do not want too purchase a hold over option, will need to navigate the possibility of what they will receive.

I just finished seeing both the sony 885es and 995es, and they were both excellent. I'll see a rs4500 next week.

I also just bought an isco 3L anamorphic lens rig from an avs member, to see how it will enhance my current projector, and the isco could also carry over to a projector upgrade.

Bottom line, i feel AVS has a little too much positive sales spin and obfuscation from some quarters, and until that changes, buyers need to seek independant information or be prepared to discover the truth only after they have become an owner.

Dont be too eager to take the leap. Use your common sense and be patient. Is a small pre sales discount really worth the current fiasco from JVC?

Honestly I think most people are making a far bigger deal over the JVC 4K release situation than warranted. I see words used here like "chaos" and "fiasco". Honestly, it's not that bad. No one has been screwed. It sounds like the product is actually pretty damned good. I see comments about how people cant believe how great the picture is etc. If I didn't have an RS4500, I'd be ordering an RS2000 right now, and I wouldn't be worried.

I don't have any specific facts on people's bias towards a situation, but honestly, I don't believe for a second anyone here is talking away issues to increase sales. I don't buy into the fact that people are here motivated to push one product to make money. I think people are here because they love the product and they love home theater. If someone pushes JVC it might just be because they feel that JVC products are awesome not because they have some financial gain to do so.

For example, people accuse me of being biased towards JVC because I'm a JVC owner. But that's just silly. I own JVC because the product is better than the alternatives. I didnt first get JVC and then decide to like JVC better. That kind of thinking is just silly.

I do think that JVC's Quality Control is worse than it use to be. But the alternatives don't appear to be any better. And at least JVC takes care of the situation - advanced exchange is awesome. Sony's answer to my 675ES iris dying was to box the thing up and send it in at my cost so they could "evaluate it" and let me know if it was bad or not.

I dunno. I think the negativity in the RS1000/2000 owners thread is unwarranted. It's definitely not chaos or a fiasco.
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Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #27 of 218 Old 02-16-2019, 11:22 PM
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Erod,

Smart decision IMO buddy ............
You notice I didn't instantly jump on the RS4500.
By waiting all the little areas of concern were all taken care of (Before) I purchased.

T.
Exactly. By buying as little as 2 months later, you make sure that the product is what you want for the next however many years. You still get the latest and greatest.
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post #28 of 218 Old 02-17-2019, 07:01 AM
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Exactly. By buying as little as 2 months later, you make sure that the product is what you want for the next however many years. You still get the latest and greatest.
The only changes that happen 2 months after release are firmware changes. People that purchased two months earlier get those same changes, preorder pricing and a spare lamp. So what exactly is the advantage of waiting two months?

Added
Also Manni, who is highly respected on the forum and knows how to properly set up and calibrate a projector has given the RS2000 a ringing endorsement.
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Last edited by Mike Garrett; 02-17-2019 at 07:07 AM.
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post #29 of 218 Old 02-17-2019, 08:08 AM
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The only changes that happen 2 months after release are firmware changes. People that purchased two months earlier get those same changes, preorder pricing and a spare lamp. So what exactly is the advantage of waiting two months?

Added
Also Manni, who is highly respected on the forum and knows how to properly set up and calibrate a projector has given the RS2000 a ringing endorsement.
The point isn't that you gain an advantage over people who own it already if you buy it later. The point is that you are able to look at a whole range of reviews (the above review not being available at pre-order stage, for example - and we're still waiting for numerous respected websites/people to carry out their reviews), establish what are 'accepted' defects and what can be fixed, and determine if the final product actually meets your needs. If it doesn't, you don't buy. That's the advantage.

Ordering before any of that, you may very well be fine because the product turns out OK - but you're taking a risk for the sake of owning it 2 months earlier. Very low reward/risk ratio.

This is all just for me personally. I have nothing against early adopters though and completely understand the fun element of pre-ordering
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post #30 of 218 Old 02-17-2019, 08:47 AM
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The point isn't that you gain an advantage over people who own it already if you buy it later. The point is that you are able to look at a whole range of reviews (the above review not being available at pre-order stage, for example - and we're still waiting for numerous respected websites/people to carry out their reviews), establish what are 'accepted' defects and what can be fixed, and determine if the final product actually meets your needs. If it doesn't, you don't buy. That's the advantage.

Ordering before any of that, you may very well be fine because the product turns out OK - but you're taking a risk for the sake of owning it 2 months earlier. Very low reward/risk ratio.

This is all just for me personally. I have nothing against early adopters though and completely understand the fun element of pre-ordering
Yep, waiting a month or so can be an advantage. Had I waited just a month longer before buying my RS520, I would have saved myself from the entire miserable CMD banding experience which went on for months. The BS me and Andrew (AMartin56) dealt with during that experience was absolutely ridiculous. Most dealers on this board and even some of the highly respected folks in the industry who post here are WAY more interested in JVC damage control vs admitting there is an actual issue even when the facts so blatantly show the issue to exist which me and Andrew clearly proved. Or they try to downplay the issue so hard and try and make you think your nuts for caring about a defective feature. Thankfully this issue did eventually get fixed many months down the line so at least our efforts weren't wasted.

And then there was my x790 pulsating experience which was miserable as well and a massive headache that also went on for months.

All the above is why I find a guy like Arrow such a breath of fresh air. He calls it like it is good or bad which VERY few people who are connected with JVC (mainly dealers) have the balls to do.

Projector politics run deep and what I saw and experienced with JVC in particular was eye opening, disturbing and interesting to say the least. I still own JVC and probably will continue to do so because unfortunately all things considered they are still the best fit for my setup and needs vs the competition. I'd jump ship in a heartbeat though if a similar product came along in the mid range JVC price point.

EDIT: Having said all the above, I probably will still gamble and preorder my next projector whenever I buy next since the preorder pricing from my dealer is too good to resist vs AVS and the other authorized dealers I've received quotes from. I do like the idea of avoiding a first gen chassis though like this year since the next version is usually a more refined product out of the gate.

Last edited by Toe; 02-17-2019 at 09:06 AM.
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