Could we use it?
Hi, Thanks for the thread,
I am just waiting to receive my RS1000/N5 and as I don't know almost anything about calibration, adjustments... I was looking for recommended initial settings.
I wanted to share a very good one that I found from a N7, but apparently should mostly apply to the N5. His room is also a fully dedicated black bat, whereas mine is a lighter semi dedicated room; and I will be projecting on a 135" screen.
My question is: Would these setting mostly apply to all of us (I think they are quite comprehensive for beginners like me) or should we modify / omit part of it?
I would really appreciate you opinion. See RECOMMENDED SETTINGS bellow
(I can not post the web , I will do it later after 5 posts)
[PRELIMINARY, I'll update when I've had more time with the projector (and as others offer suggestions/corrections as well) and am hoping to post detailed measurements in the advanced section shortly. All measurements mentioned were either taken with my Discus trained to my i1pro2 or with my Minolta T10. My screen is a Carada BW 88" 16/9 with an effective nominal gain (1.3 advertised). Throw distance is 3.60m, which I believe is mid-throw. More details in the advanced section.]
Based on the initial measurements of my RS2000/NX7 (see detailed data in advanced section), here are the settings I would recommend OOTB for different type of content. My unit had f/w 1.20 installed. Note: If some of what I'm suggesting doesn't apply to the RS1000/NX5 or RS3000/NX9, please let me know (by PM or in the thread) and I'll correct/update. I haven't had the time to cross-check all options, but the below should apply to the RS3000 as well and hopefully to the RS1000 too, mostly. There is unit to unit variation, so YMMV of course.
I use HDMI Standard (and force it to 16-235) to be sure that it stays that way. I make sure that all my sources send video levels. You might prefer leaving this on auto.
I leave colorspace on auto, it's usually fairly reliable.
I left contrast to zero (I clip at 235), but at least my unit seems to be raising the black floor significantly with brightness at the default of 0, which wasn't the case on previous models in my experience. This might be an attempt by JVC to improve shadow detail, but it literally kills the native and dynamic contrast. I set it to -2 for all my contrast measurements, and shadow detail is still very good that way. I might move it to -1 for day to day use, as the hit on the black floor/contrast is minimal, and shadow detail (especially level 17/68) improves a bit. But the default of 0, at least on my unit, is a big no-no. Make sure you check for this on your unit!
To test for a raised black floor visually if you don't have a meter able to read black reliably: with the DI disabled (iris on manual), display a black pattern, press the "hide" button on the remote. If you see the black floor going down, it means that brightness is too high. Unhide, lower brightness one step at a time, and repeat, until you can't see a difference when switching between hide and unhide. It's much better, in my opinion (if that's the price to pay) to not resolve level 17/68, which should be just barely visible anyway, rather than to raise the black floor and kill native and dynamic contrast. But of course, it's up to you!
Quick notes for nVidia HTPC/MadVR users [others please skip]: the magenta bug present on the rs500 at 4K60 8bits in 385.28 and for all 8bits resolutions in all recent drivers including the latest is gone, which is great news. This means 8bits becomes usable, and leaving MadVR dither to 8bits might be a better option than forcing 12bits out because levels are still borked in 12bits with recent drivers. [EDIT 01/03/19: I found the reason for this: there is a bug in the new models that force YCC422 behind madVR's back when RGB 12bits is selected in the nVidia CP. The driver sends RGB 12bits, the JVC reports RGB 12bits, but in reality it's forcing YCC422. JVC knows about the bug, so hopefully they will fix it in an upcoming f/w update]. Also if you had custom refresh rates created with MadVR or CRU, they are most likely not going to be valid anymore. If you end up with a green screen with your HTPC, your projector isn't defective, this is why . Simply delete the custom refresh and the green screen will go away. I haven't had the time to recreate custom refresh modes or finetune settings for nVidia/MadVR, but when I do I'll try to post some advice in a MadVR section or thread, along with recommended settings for MadVR for HDR and SDR, both for playback and calibration, after the next public build of MadVR is released. In the meantime, please don't ask anything specifically about MadVR/nVidia in this thread or it will quickly become a mess and non HTPC/MadVR users will hate you.
In all modes:
I set all MPC values to zero and I switch all the CMD options to off (except in my Sports mode). This is a personal preference, but I haven't really tried the new CMD. I hear the Soap Opera Effect (that I personally dislike with film content) usually associated with CMD even on low is reduced, so I'll give it a try when I have more time. I haven't experienced the yellow tint (most likely gamma shift) reported by some when switching the DI on with these settings, so it might help if you are seeing these shifts. HDMI sync time is vastly improved over the older models (from more than 20 secs in my case to around 7 secs), so very happy with that very significant improvement. [EDIT: I did experience the yellow shift with the DI, and it's not caused by CMD options. JVC are working on a fix. Also some nasty artifacts can appear when using Motion Enhance, so my recommendation to keep that off along with CMD stands].
Regarding the DI, it still causes some gamma artifacts in scenes where I notice this with the rs500. For example, try Mission Impossible: Fallout Out and look at the car headlights in the scene starting at 00:05:57. Beware, not everyone notices these artifacts and some are happily using the DI with a fully open iris. Once seen, you can't unsee it, so please don't look for it if you're happy with the DI generally, there is nothing wrong with that. Apparently the DI is improved in others situations. It doesn't close down as far as on my rs500 and it's much slower (up to four seconds to fully close), so it doesn't pump as much on credits, but the downside is that the fade to black is not as good. I really hope that JVC will give us an Auto 3 setting with zero gamma manipulation (none whatsoever), and a DI that would only close as much as possible on fade to black, at least twice as fast as the current Auto 2 setting. I'll post detailed brightness and contrast measurements with/without the DI in the advanced section soon [EDIT: done].
The gamma artifacts (for those who notice them) are usually worse if the manual iris is fully open. That's the setting that gives the highest dynamic contrast. The closer the manual iris, the lower the multiplier, the less artifacts. This makes them more visible in HDR for example, as most will have a manual iris more open to play HDR content than to play SDR content. So the lower the manual iris settings, the less gamma (and pumping) artifacts.
I haven't had the time to do a full analysis of the dynamic iris, but if you see issues, try either switching the DI off, or try closing the iris further. In the rs500, there is no gamma artifact with the manual iris at -15, very few with the iris at -10, more with the iris at -5 and quite a lot with the iris fully open.
If you can use low lamp and fan noise/heat isn't an issue, it could be an option to use high lamp instead with a lower manual iris setting to reach the same peak brightness. This should not only reduce the DI gamma artifacts, it should also provide more native (but less dynamic) contrast. So experimenting with these options, if available, could help.
[EDIT 16-02-19: there seems to be a bug with the DI as it causes a yellow shift, especially noticeable when coming out of black. It wasn't visible with patterns, but it's definitely there with actual content, for example at the beginning of Mad Max Fury Road, when we fade in on Furiosa's neck. For this reason, I recommend to switch the DI off until this is fixed. JVC are aware of the issue and a new f/w is expected in March].
Again, if you don't see DI artifacts, don't start looking for them and enjoy the DI. But if you do, you know what to do.
Recommended settings for SDR Rec-709 HD content (Bluray, HD sat, etc):
You can simply select Natural, which is very close to reference, at least on my unit (see the measurements in the advanced section).
I prefer to have a separate mode for film and TV content, so I use Natural for TV (with CMD on low, that's my sports mode) and User 1 for film content. My HD Fury Maestro switches automatically between both (I'll post details on this in the HD Fury section later).
Whether you use Natural or a user mode, what you want is Rec-709, 6500K, in low or high lamp and with the manual iris setting that gives you the brightness that you want. Make sure the CMS is off. This should give you a gamut that tracks rec-709 very closely.
The cinema mode uses the P3 filter and kind of tracks DCI-P3 (so is not meant to be used with any consumer content). It doesn't track P3 as well as the DCI-P3 color profile though, so I wouldn't use it as it is. Film is of no interest if you're after reference. If you like either of these, feel free to use them of course. I might use the cinema slot for other content selecting rec-709/6500K (3D for example) to save a user mode, but I wouldn't use it as it is. Film is not usable as it doesn't offer any standard options, so it's a lost mode as far as I'm concerned.
To get 60-70nits in rec-709 / 6500K, I had the iris at -12 on my 88" diag 16/9 Carada BW (effective nominal gain). -13 only gave me 40-50nits, and I wanted some headroom for later calibration as I'll probably lose a bit later (with the Autocal and 3D LUT). As I get above 120nits in HDR (about twice as much), that's still a nice dynamic range improvement.
For gamma, I recommend selecting a 2.4 gamma (sadly 2.3 isn't an option, only 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 are selectable). It would be great to have 2.3 and 2.5 as well, but the gamma picture tone control allows to get there easily. [EDIT: there are more gamma options if you select custom gamma, so that's a way to select 2.3 and 2.5]. I had to raise it to +3 to roughly get 2.4 over the range as gamma was a bit too high otherwise. Then if you want BT1886, you most probably need to raise dark gamma a few clicks (+3 here). On my unit, simply moving picture tone to +3 and dark gamma to +3 gave me a very decent BT1886 curve (see the advanced section for measurements). Results could be improved further with the Autocal (manually with the 12-point parametric controls or automatically) but the results were very good after a just a few clicks on the gamma controls. There is unit to unit variation, so the above is only for information. You can try without a meter, but most likely YMMV.
Recommended settings for 3D content:
You need to set either cinema mode or a user mode to rec-709 / 6500K. You can use any lamp/iris setting you want (I would suggest high lamp fully open with the DI on). I haven't done any test on 3D yet, so I won't make more specific recommendations until I find the time to do so or others I trust post their recommended 3D settings. I would suspect that setting CMD on low should work well especially for animation if you like that in 3D. I'll update this part when I find the time to test 3D.
Recommended settings for UHD Blurays doing the tonemapping internally and sending SDR BT2020 using the full dynamic range (UB820, Oppo 203/205, etc):
I recommend selecting a user mode (I use User Mode 2 for this) and selecting the BT2020 color profile (or the HDR color profile if your model doesn't have a P3 filter, such as the N5/RS1000), 6500K color temp, gamma 2.4, iris fully open in low or high lamp, and adjust tonemapping settings on the source. I haven't tested this myself yet, but that should give the most correct results. If you are brightness starved and are happy to sacrifice saturation to brightness (100% of P3 to around 85% on my unit) to avoid losing around 20% brightness with the P3 filter, you can select the HDR color profile instead. [Edit 16-02/19: it looks like in high lamp the filter only cuts 10% (15% gain from no filter), which might explain why the numbers are all over the place. I posted detailed measurements in the contrast section showing the delta for BT2020 and HDR in high lamp, iris open, both native and dynamic.]
Note: For older models such as the UB900, I would (off memory, I haven't re-tested this recently) recommend a peak white of no more than 100nits, because I think that's what these units do. They don't use the whole dynamic range of the display/projector like the UB820/Oppos, they simply map to standard HDR, so 100nits peak for flat panels.
Recommended settings for UHD Sources expecting the display to do the tonemapping (UHD Bluray players, mediaplayers sending HDR as HDR):
I recommend using the HDR10 factory mode, and selecting the BT2020 color profile (or the HDR color profile if your model doesn't have a P3 filter, such as the N5/RS1000), 6500K color temp, PQ gamma, iris fully open (best dynamic on/off) in low lamp or high lamp. If you don't use the DI and have some brightness in reserve, you might want to lower the manual iris setting to increase native on/off and lower the black floor. The BT2020 color profile track BT2020 container saturations very well, up to almost 75% of P3. It covers 99% of P3 on my unit, due to a very slight undersaturation on red. Green and blue fully meet their targets. Of course this will vary unit per unit.
As above, if you are brightness starved (or if your model doesn't have a P3 filter), selecting the HDR color profile will give you more brightness at the expense of saturation, and the saturations will still track very well up to around 85% of P3. After that, it will clip content. Note that I believe I'm on the low side regarding gamut cover with this unit. I would expect a typical unit to reach 100-105% of P3 with the filter and 85-90% without. We'll know more when more units are measured, but I guess this one is within specs.
There isn't much actual content at the edge of the P3 gamut currently. As saturations track BT2020 well both with the BT2020 and HDR color profiles, selecting HDR to gain brightness if you need it is a perfectly sound compromise. RS1000/NX5 owners shouldn't worry about the absence of filter, it's definitely not mandatory to get excellent results, on all models.
With the HDR color profile selected (BT2020 no filter) or on the RS1000/NX5, you should still be getting something midway between rec-709 and P3: rec-709 is around 70% of P3, HDR (no filter) is around 85% of P3, and BT2020 with the filter is close to 100% of P3, at least on my unit.
This being said, given that a wide color gamut is one of the benefits of HDR titles, I personally take all I can on the RS2000, thanks to my puny screen.
Also, as there is more and more content mastered to BT2020 and not P3, once there starts to be content beyond P3, more content will be clipped if HDR is selected.
So my advice is of course to use the HDR color profile if you can't get at least 50-75nits peak white in HDR with your current screen. I get 120nits (40fL) using BT2020 and with good tonemapping this is more than enough. In fact with good dynamic tonemapping, you can get excellent results even with only 50nits peak white in HDR.
On the other hand, if you're about to purchase a screen and want to future-proof your install, I would carefully think about its size and gain and discuss this with your installer before doing so in order to try, if you can, to get at least 75nits peak white with the filter enabled in HDR (so BT2020 color profile), and preferably around 100nits if at all possible. If bringing the seats closer is an option in your room, it might be preferable to getting the maximum screen size you can get in SDR and then have to hobble the HDR picture further than it could be. Or adding a DCR A-lens to get 35-38% more brightness using the full panel, if you don't already have one and can afford it, as the new JVCs now support it. .
For me a 20% hit on brightness [EDIT 16-02-19: in low lamp, it looks like the cut is only 10% in high lamp] is a price I'm very happy to pay, again with good tonemapping. Getting 50fL (150nits) peak brightness for HDR is not mandatory in my opinion, provided you are using a good (professional) calibration or dynamic tonemapping.
Those stating that 50fL is needed in HDR for projectors are either unable to calibrate the projector with good custom curves or are not familiar with what good tonemapping (especially dynamic) can do with 30fL, or even 20fL.
50fL is only needed to show shadow details with all titles if a good balance hasn't been found between brightness and highlights. It's certainly not mandatory.
For MadVR users [others please skip]:
I recommend using MadVR's pixel shader dynamic tonemapping with the JVC, as it is excellent. It provides better than HDR10+ results with HDR10 content, and will be available in the next public release of MadVR (at the moment it's only test builds in an experimental thread and there is no support there). If you do this, use the SDR BT2020 mode above and tell MadVR that your display is already calibrated to BT2020 and gamma 2.4.
If you use a MadVR 3D LUT to correct this even further, you have to use a gamma 2.2 target for the LUT (it doesn't matter what the target is on the display baseline, so feel free to use 2.4 to make it compatible with another source). Also in that case I recommend not using an SDR BT2020 LUT and targeting DCI-P3 instead to limit posterization issues. MadVR will tonemap to P3 (in fact simply discarding the BT2020 container in most cases). Again, please do *not* ask questions about MadVR in this thread. I will try to post detailed HDR calibration and playback settings for MadVR users after the next public build of MadVR is released. In the meantime, please use other MadVR support threads to ask questions.