Advice: JVC X790R or Epson 5050ub - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 101 Old 07-09-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dilema View Post
Well the lower level of shadow details bothered me. Thus dealer guys were trying to increase settings in JVC to improve it however not to the level it was comparable.

I remember the scene with black big limousine in the middle of screen. On JVC it was totally black that made me feel there is missing something. Then we paused the player and switched to Epson. Limousine was also perfectly black but we could see all reflections on the side of the car what looked much more natural.

Also when it comes to brightness. The little greenish tone on LCD is when they run on the brightest touch/dynamic modes. In Cinema modes like natural there is absolutely no way of greenish. Actually I have noticed this on JVC on the default HDR mode (I think it is called thx). I have pointed this out to dealer guys and they saw that too on the black huts of solders as I have mentioned in my initial post here. You need to have good eyes to catch that.

Honestly if JVC would be cheaper than TW9400 I still would probably take Epson. Sorry but I believe my eyes. To me RS540 was not convincing over cheaper but newer competitor.

I was considering to buy X590 which is still available where I live but since it is even dimmer and less contrasty than Rs540 this is absolutely no go for me.
Did you read post 87 in this thread? As for shadow detail, have gone through this many times. In one of the DLP threads, a guy posted pictures showing the DLP showing more shadow detail than the JVC and then Javs showed a screen grab off the film (not a photo), showing what you were supposed to see in that shot. The JVC was correct and the raised black floor on the DLP was showing detail that was not supposed to be seen. Many people see this and just naturally assume one projector is showing more shadow detail, when that is not the case.

Added
I am not saying that is for sure what you saw, because one, I was not there and two, the projectors may not have been set up properly, so the JVC could have been crushing shadow detail.
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post #92 of 101 Old 07-09-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilema View Post
Well the lower level of shadow details bothered me. Thus dealer guys were trying to increase settings in JVC to improve it however not to the level it was comparable.

I remember the scene with black big limousine in the middle of screen. On JVC it was totally black that made me feel there is missing something. Then we paused the player and switched to Epson. Limousine was also perfectly black but we could see all reflections on the side of the car what looked much more natural.

Also when it comes to brightness. The little greenish tone on LCD is when they run on the brightest touch/dynamic modes. In Cinema modes like natural there is absolutely no way of greenish. Actually I have noticed this on JVC on the default HDR mode (I think it is called thx). I have pointed this out to dealer guys and they saw that too on the black huts of solders as I have mentioned in my initial post here. You need to have good eyes to catch that.

Honestly if JVC would be cheaper than TW9400 I still would probably take Epson. Sorry but I believe my eyes. To me RS540 was not convincing over cheaper but newer competitor.

I was considering to buy X590 which is still available where I live but since it is even dimmer and less contrasty than Rs540 this is absolutely no go for me.
Mike is talking about detail that is meant to be very subtle being elevated to improper levels on projectors with poor contrast. What you're describing sounds like black crush from improperly calibrated gamma. Where details that should be visible are treated as black.

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post #93 of 101 Old 07-09-2019, 12:14 PM
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I was exactly at this dealer who published that test. Warsaw Poland. Best in town. I assumed these guys know how to set up JVC since they calibrate and sell hundreds of them. There were 3 guys playing and adjusting the projector asking each other. I was playing with Epson myself same time. They definitely were thinking JVC destroys Epson. It didn’t work out that way they had to admit after I challenged them with remote in my hands;-)
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post #94 of 101 Old 07-09-2019, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
The forum is populated by some of the most talented calibrators and reviewers in the field. While I'm sure your guy is excellent, ignoring the large amount of data that contradicts your opinion/their statement isn't going to make it less valid. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the Epson product, but it does not calibrate "better" or have more lumens with the filter than the RS540/X790.
I am sure there are loads of great guys on here but you are more inclined to believe someone who comes very highly rated to you over anyone on a keyboard. For example the review here has the Epson at 4500:1 contrast but mine measured just shy of 8000:1.

In fact when I was looking to replace the Sony he was pushing me hard to get a JVC but then he went to a dealer to calibrate their new demo 9400 and his opinion completely changed from only the JVC to also consider the Epson as he was amazed just how good it was for the price. You have to remember that here in the Uk the 9400 is the 6050 and it’s only £2.5K where as the JVC x7900 was over £4K.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Radiator)

Last edited by Luminated67; 07-09-2019 at 12:29 PM.
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post #95 of 101 Old 07-09-2019, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I am sure there are loads of great guys on here but you are more inclined to believe someone who comes very highly rated to you over anyone on a keyboard. For example the review here has the Epson at 4500:1 contrast but mine measured just shy of 8000:1.

In fact when I was looking to replace the Sony he was pushing me hard to get a JVC but then he went to a dealer to calibrate their new demo 9400 and his opinion completely changed from only the JVC to also consider the Epson as he was amazed just how good it was for the price. You have to remember than here in the Uk the 9400 is the 6050 and it’s only £2.5K where as the JVC x7900 was over £4K.
Yes, with the price difference being so much greater in Europe, it is not the same comparison as here in the US.
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post #96 of 101 Old 07-09-2019, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilema View Post
I was exactly at this dealer who published that test. Warsaw Poland. Best in town. I assumed these guys know how to set up JVC since they calibrate and sell hundreds of them. There were 3 guys playing and adjusting the projector asking each other. I was playing with Epson myself same time. They definitely were thinking JVC destroys Epson. It didn’t work out that way they had to admit after I challenged them with remote in my hands;-)
Well details that are on one but not the other is a calibration or signal problem. I'd say the same thing if it was the Epson not showing something it can. I've seen several Epson 5040's and several JVC RS5xx/6xx units. What you are reporting is not normal. I don't doubt it's what you saw, but something is amiss. Of course even if both are working properly I wouldn't claim the JVC "destroys" the Epson. Better, yes. But the Epson is certainly no slouch.


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post #97 of 101 Old 07-09-2019, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I am sure there are loads of great guys on here but you are more inclined to believe someone who comes very highly rated to you over anyone on a keyboard. For example the review here has the Epson at 4500:1 contrast but mine measured just shy of 8000:1.

In fact when I was looking to replace the Sony he was pushing me hard to get a JVC but then he went to a dealer to calibrate their new demo 9400 and his opinion completely changed from only the JVC to also consider the Epson as he was amazed just how good it was for the price. You have to remember than here in the Uk the 9400 is the 6050 and it’s only £2.5K where as the JVC x7900 was over £4K.
Saw with my own eyes the calibration data and watched the process on the RS520 I owned. I've seen the data posted by a myriad of sources that have reported similar findings. There is plenty of hard data showing that both the Epson x050 and JVC RSxxx line are both capable of being accurately calibrated. Nothing shows the Epson as "better". Calibrated accurately is calibrated accurately. One manufacturer may make the process easier over another, but that doesn't impact accuracy.

Pricing is not relevant to what we're discussing. The Epson does not calibrate "better" (nor does it calibrate worse). And it does not have more lumens with the filter in place.

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post #98 of 101 Old 07-09-2019, 02:17 PM
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I agree that with filter it was much much dimer. This should be for small screen. Thus I have focused to adjust it based on natural mode which was really great Color. And I can’t say Color was any narrower to my eyes comparing to JVC in its default hdr mode. Reds were kind of vibrant much different than on standard Blu-ray. Same with vivid greens I noticed. Different than standard format. Some Color difference was easily noticeable for hdr vs sdr I used to see on my current projector. Thus I was saying hdr was really good.

Measurements on paper are one thing and in person experience is another. I was almost sure I will end up with JVC and totally changed my mind during 3 hours yesterday.
Someone told me on this forum That anyone can do tests but only few can do it the right way. And still that can be subjective.
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post #99 of 101 Old 07-09-2019, 02:28 PM
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Years back, I had an Epson 5030UB. Motion was very difficult for me and the white case stuck out like a sore thumb.
But that was my unit and a 5030.

As far as the e-shifter JVCs, I know I had trouble with crushed blacks on all of mine...sometimes it felt like I had to be next to an imploding star before I could make out digital 17.
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post #100 of 101 Old 07-11-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Years back, I had an Epson 5030UB. Motion was very difficult for me and the white case stuck out like a sore thumb.
But that was my unit and a 5030.

As far as the e-shifter JVCs, I know I had trouble with crushed blacks on all of mine...sometimes it felt like I had to be next to an imploding star before I could make out digital 17.
Can someone put it to simpler English for me?
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post #101 of 101 Old 07-11-2019, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilema View Post
Can someone put it to simpler English for me?
Gamma has steps in brightness. The "digital 17" mentioned I'm guessing is just above black and they are complaining that it was very hard to see.

I've seen this complaint before and have always been baffled by it. It's not hard when calibrating to adjust these steps if you feel the picture isn't correct. When we setup tonemap curves on the RS520 I owned we did exactly this with just above black.

Keep in mind that some people also assume they should be seeing things just above black that they aren't intended to and call this a flaw. When the reality is that it is accurate and they've simply gotten used to an inaccurate picture.

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