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post #1 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Advice: JVC X790R or Epson 5050ub

So I was pretty sold on replacing my Epson 5030ub with the new Epson 5050 (now that they have 18Gb HMDI). I can get a 5050 for $4000 CAD. I have LOVED (still do) my Epson 5030. I think it has an amazing picture. For reference, it is in a 100% light controlled room, 13’ from the screen (92” Elunevision Reference, White 1.0 - got this a few months ago.. WOW!).

However, I can also get a JVC X790R for $3900 CAD. I understand this is a very good deal. Looking at specs, very similar in regard to what they can do, however, the Epson would win in the brightness category and JVC in the black levels. From an MSRP standpoint, the JVC should be a much better projector. But.. I am partial to my Epson history. It’s worked and I like it and the unknown of a different brand/setup is a little scary.

Soooo, I am mostly upgrading for movies and games in HDR. Reviews on the 5050 suggest the HDR is VERY good for a projector. I can’t find a ton of info on the 790R in this regard. Also amazing (for a projector)?

Anything else I am missing? Have you seen/used both (or even the Epson 5040)? What do you recommend?

Your advice is greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Forgot to add that I know there is another thread comparing these two plus a BENQ. But they have a different room setup and were quite concerned about 3D.
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post #3 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 07:38 PM
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I don't think most people in here are looking at an Epson vs. JVC for a picture quality debate (JVC is pretty far ahead).

I would find it pretty suspect if someone were to claim the Epson can oust the JVC in any significant way (other than Torch Mode brightness).
It usually comes down to budget, I'd say go with the JVC for sure, you already have an Epson 5030, the 5040 or 5050 is going to be better, but not that much better.
Most people that have upgraded to a JVC from an Epson say it was a pretty big improvement.

The JVC is going to give the better image, generally sharper, tighter pixel fill, and more contrast.
LCOS tech is superior to LCD.
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post #4 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 07:48 PM
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My first instinct is to say to go with the 790. But depending on your setup, the 5050 will likely have the better HDR implementation. If you use an HTPC, you could use MadVR to tone map movies so that you can have HDR on the 790. But I don't know that MadVR will work for games. I'm guessing not, and even if it did, it is using precious GPU resources that will rob you of framerate, and would likely add some degree of display lag. So if HDR gaming is really important for you, the 5050 could well be the better buy since it has a more mature HDR implementation.

But if movie watching is equally or more important, the 790 would be the better buy, albeit with the potential caveat of HDR that may not perform as well as the 5050.

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post #5 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I don't think most people in here are looking at an Epson vs. JVC for a picture quality debate (JVC is pretty far ahead).

I would find it pretty suspect if someone were to claim the Epson can oust the JVC in any significant way (other than Torch Mode brightness).
It usually comes down to budget, I'd say go with the JVC for sure, you already have an Epson 5030, the 5040 or 5050 is going to be better, but not that much better.
Most people that have upgraded to a JVC from an Epson say it was a pretty big improvement.

The JVC is going to give the better image, generally sharper, tighter pixel fill, and more contrast.
LCOS tech is superior to LCD.
Thanks. That’s something I keep hearing. I.e. JVC is in a different league. I don’t “think” I need to concerned about the light output of the JVC with my room and screen size and that would seem to be the only potential drawback of the JVCs...
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post #6 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by danlw2 View Post
My first instinct is to say to go with the 790. But depending on your setup, the 5050 will likely have the better HDR implementation. If you use an HTPC, you could use MadVR to tone map movies so that you can have HDR on the 790. But I don't know that MadVR will work for games. I'm guessing not, and even if it did, it is using precious GPU resources that will rob you of framerate, and would likely add some degree of display lag. So if HDR gaming is really important for you, the 5050 could well be the better buy since it has a more mature HDR implementation.

But if movie watching is equally or more important, the 790 would be the better buy, albeit with the potential caveat of HDR that may not perform as well as the 5050.
That’ a real kicker. HDR is a significant driving force for my upgrade. And I am struggling to find comparisons or reviews on the JVC side. My setup consists of a gaming PC, PS4 PRO, and Apple TV (will upgrade to ATV4K). I am not in the market to get something that requires a lot of tinkering around to get it “just right”. I want to turn one of my devices on and based on what I am doing the projector is projecting at its best. The 5030 out of the box was an amazing picture.

I appreciate your input.
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post #7 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 09:03 PM
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I wouldn't count on any HDR implementation working perfectly in games, HDR is a hack from the beginning to the end when it comes to gaming.
As far as gaming on Epson vs. JVC, I'd rather have the tighter pixel fill and sharper image for gaming, which the JVC is most likely to give.

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post #8 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJykill View Post
So I was pretty sold on replacing my Epson 5030ub with the new Epson 5050 (now that they have 18Gb HMDI). I can get a 5050 for $4000 CAD. I have LOVED (still do) my Epson 5030. I think it has an amazing picture. For reference, it is in a 100% light controlled room, 13’ from the screen (92” Elunevision Reference, White 1.0 - got this a few months ago.. WOW!).

However, I can also get a JVC X790R for $3900 CAD. I understand this is a very good deal. Looking at specs, very similar in regard to what they can do, however, the Epson would win in the brightness category and JVC in the black levels. From an MSRP standpoint, the JVC should be a much better projector. But.. I am partial to my Epson history. It’s worked and I like it and the unknown of a different brand/setup is a little scary.

Soooo, I am mostly upgrading for movies and games in HDR. Reviews on the 5050 suggest the HDR is VERY good for a projector. I can’t find a ton of info on the 790R in this regard. Also amazing (for a projector)?

Anything else I am missing? Have you seen/used both (or even the Epson 5040)? What do you recommend?

Your advice is greatly appreciated.
I went from a 5030 to a 790. I was happy with my 5030 but the 790 is in a different league. I get great HDR on a 100". Do verify that it'll do 92" from 13' though.
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post #9 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 10:42 PM
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The JVC has some of the best black performance of any projector on the market right now. The Epson is "just ok" in every area but excels at none. These aren't serious competitors. The JVC should generally destroy the Epson here. My RS500 (x750r) destroyed my friend's Epson 5040 when he had that setup.

There are plenty of custom curves you can load on for HDR plus if you have an HTPC you can benefit from using madVR for HDR. Neither the Epson nor the JVC are going to be incredible on HDR with stock settings. I do all my gaming at 4k/60 no HDR. You get plenty of color and don't need HDR for games, in my opinion.
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post #10 of 104 Old 04-25-2019, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJykill View Post
So I was pretty sold on replacing my Epson 5030ub with the new Epson 5050 (now that they have 18Gb HMDI). I can get a 5050 for $4000 CAD. I have LOVED (still do) my Epson 5030. I think it has an amazing picture. For reference, it is in a 100% light controlled room, 13’ from the screen (92” Elunevision Reference, White 1.0 - got this a few months ago.. WOW!).

However, I can also get a JVC X790R for $3900 CAD. I understand this is a very good deal. Looking at specs, very similar in regard to what they can do, however, the Epson would win in the brightness category and JVC in the black levels. From an MSRP standpoint, the JVC should be a much better projector. But.. I am partial to my Epson history. It’s worked and I like it and the unknown of a different brand/setup is a little scary.

Soooo, I am mostly upgrading for movies and games in HDR. Reviews on the 5050 suggest the HDR is VERY good for a projector. I can’t find a ton of info on the 790R in this regard. Also amazing (for a projector)?

Anything else I am missing? Have you seen/used both (or even the Epson 5040)? What do you recommend?

Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Man that is a great deal on the JVC! Makes me wanna grab one before I head back to the US tomorrow from Canada (if one was nearby and getting it back to the US didn't cost so much haha).

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post #11 of 104 Old 04-26-2019, 12:20 AM
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Man that is a great deal on the JVC! Makes me wanna grab one before I head back to the US tomorrow from Canada (if one was nearby and getting it back to the US didn't cost so much haha).
That is quite a deal, I'm tempted to check the canoe for holes before I go out

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post #12 of 104 Old 04-26-2019, 09:27 AM
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However, I can also get a JVC X790R for $3900 CAD. I understand this is a very good deal.
If you can get a brand new 790R for 3900$Can, go for it as soon as you can. You can resale it for 4500$ Can the same day and make profit.

If you stick with Epson, let me know where you got the JVC deal and i'll upgrate my Sony VPL HW45ES right away!!
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post #13 of 104 Old 04-27-2019, 12:56 AM
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I haven't looked in the 5050 thread for a few days, but everything I've seen puts the 790 ahead of the 5050 pretty much across the board.

As far as bright as goes, haven't seen the final calibrated lumens for the 5050, but I was considering the Optoma UHZ65 which is 3000 lumens rated in full torch mode, but the calibrated modes are right around the same as the JVC 790 (1600).

So I seriously doubt the 5050 would be brighter than the JVC. The blacks while improved over the 5040, still havent been reported to be a huge jump.

I had been waiting for the 5050 to drop myself, but decided the 790 was the overall better buy at this time. Now a year later when the 5050 refurbs start popping up that might be a different discussion for value vs performance.
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post #14 of 104 Old 04-27-2019, 10:47 AM
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These folks have one of the best Epson 5050 reviews, you can paste the link in google chrome and it will auto-translate.

https://hdtvpolska.com/epson-eh-tw94...hz/?showfull=1

The major caveat with the Epson LCD panels is the very wide pixel gap and it hasn't changed for the 2019 models.



It's still visible even with a UHD source and e-shift engaged.



It looks like they have already developed native UHD LCD panels for the commercial L12000Q projector. Hopefully their next update within 2 years will be to move those panels to the home cinema projectors. That would be a great upgrade and keep the price at 3K MSRP or under.
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post #15 of 104 Old 04-27-2019, 12:06 PM
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To the OP, I had over 20 projectors with different brands since 2001. My DW never cared for them until I brought home my 1st JVC (RS2). I used Sony (maybe better color but not contrast) or BenQ as backup. The only reason to go for Epson would be cost factor.

So I got rid of my JVC RS45 recently (not bright enough for a 120" screen), my choice would be a RS400 as plan A and a Sony HW55 as plan B. There is at least a $1,000 delta between the two. The used market does not lie. Most folks value JVC over Sony. I did not check the used prices on Epson (last one I owned was the 8700UB). 3D and 4k are not important to me; neither is gaming.

Watching LOTR and GOT with a JVC is the way to go, for me.

GL.
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post #16 of 104 Old 04-27-2019, 01:55 PM
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I went from an Epson 5040 to a 790 (rs540u).

My room is light controlled and there is NO WAY I could tolerate an Epson after seeing the JVC! My wife immediately noticed the upgrade! We watch lots of HDR and the depth of color, including the black levels just blows the Epson out of the water!

Sure, you can run an uncalibrated Epson in torch mode and say "WOW, it's BRIGHTER than a JVC!", but so is a halogen lightbulb if that's all one were to care about...

The only way I think anyone could prefer the Epson over JVC is if they didn't have a light controller room and simply couldn't appreciate the colors/black levels, or simply had never seen a JVC in the first place. Maybe even the excessively large screen guys, who really do have no choice but to have higher lumens as a tradeoff.

Please get the JVC! I'd rather see you people buy something that they'll be happy with, as did I (I finally learned after several Epsons).

No I do not work for JVC and yes I do think Epson makes a good projector for the price, just not for a someone like you or I. I do await the day when JVC or Epson make affordable laser true 4K HDR light cannons, only THEN I would take an Epson.
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post #17 of 104 Old 04-27-2019, 02:10 PM
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RS540/X790 - no brainer.
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post #18 of 104 Old 04-27-2019, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mike Johnson 3 View Post
I went from an Epson 5040 to a 790 (rs540u).

My room is light controlled and there is NO WAY I could tolerate an Epson after seeing the JVC! My wife immediately noticed the upgrade! We watch lots of HDR and the depth of color, including the black levels just blows the Epson out of the water!

Sure, you can run an uncalibrated Epson in torch mode and say "WOW, it's BRIGHTER than a JVC!", but so is a halogen lightbulb if that's all one were to care about...

The only way I think anyone could prefer the Epson over JVC is if they didn't have a light controller room and simply couldn't appreciate the colors/black levels, or simply had never seen a JVC in the first place. Maybe even the excessively large screen guys, who really do have no choice but to have higher lumens as a tradeoff.

Please get the JVC! I'd rather see you people buy something that they'll be happy with, as did I (I finally learned after several Epsons).

No I do not work for JVC and yes I do think Epson makes a good projector for the price, just not for a someone like you or I. I do await the day when JVC or Epson make affordable laser true 4K HDR light cannons, only THEN I would take an Epson.
I've ordered the JVC 790. Thanks for everyone's input!
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post #19 of 104 Old 04-28-2019, 01:54 PM
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Just make sure it's not counterfeit: http://www.us.jvc.com/projectors/procision/dla_x790r/

I see dead pixels.......
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post #20 of 104 Old 05-23-2019, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I don't think most people in here are looking at an Epson vs. JVC for a picture quality debate (JVC is pretty far ahead).

I would find it pretty suspect if someone were to claim the Epson can oust the JVC in any significant way (other than Torch Mode brightness).
It usually comes down to budget, I'd say go with the JVC for sure, you already have an Epson 5030, the 5040 or 5050 is going to be better, but not that much better.
Most people that have upgraded to a JVC from an Epson say it was a pretty big improvement.

The JVC is going to give the better image, generally sharper, tighter pixel fill, and more contrast.
LCOS tech is superior to LCD.
Thanks for clarifying that, I was actually thinking if I should get a eshift5 jvc or a newer epson. But I am absolutely new to the home theatre experience.
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post #21 of 104 Old 05-23-2019, 05:33 AM
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Yep you can see the pixel gap on the Epson...... like 1 foot away from the screen LOL. I’ve took the photos with my phone because a JVC troop on the UK forum kept insisting about screen door effect.

Here’s image from approximately 8ft away, 4ft away, 2ft away and finally 1ft away from my 100” 16:9 screen.

You be the judge and this was from a 1080P Bluray from the Hobbit series.






I’m not saying the JVC isn’t tighter but let’s keep this in perspective plus I know that the UK 9400 is actually the 6050 you get in the US but on several occasions in side by side demos along side the new Native 4K JVC N5 the members on the UK forum actually preferred the Epson so clearly it’s a lot better than some here are giving it credit for.

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post #22 of 104 Old 05-23-2019, 09:12 AM
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Yep you can see the pixel gap on the Epson...... like 1 foot away from the screen LOL. I’ve took the photos with my phone because a JVC troop on the UK forum kept insisting about screen door effect.

Here’s image from approximately 8ft away, 4ft away, 2ft away and finally 1ft away from my 100” 16:9 screen.

You be the judge and this was from a 1080P Bluray from the Hobbit series.






I’m not saying the JVC isn’t tighter but let’s keep this in perspective plus I know that the UK 9400 is actually the 6050 you get in the US but on several occasions in side by side demos along side the new Native 4K JVC N5 the members on the UK forum actually preferred the Epson so clearly it’s a lot better than some here are giving it credit for.

Okay that great because it's a 100 screen trying going bigger around 135 or 150 then report back and tell me how you see it ?

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post #23 of 104 Old 05-23-2019, 12:41 PM
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Okay that great because it's a 100 screen trying going bigger around 135 or 150 then report back and tell me how you see it ?
I can post you many shots from 150” screens which look truly amazing. Go on to AVForums.com and look for Brid2005, his 9400 throws up some incredible images on his 146” screen.

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Epson TW9400/7400

I just think some JVC owners might be surprised by the Epson.

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post #24 of 104 Old 05-25-2019, 09:10 PM
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Okay that great because it's a 100 screen trying going bigger around 135 or 150 then report back and tell me how you see it ?
Well, it's all relative: with a 135 to 150" screen you can sit a bit farther away. And even if you don't, I doubt you'll notice the pixel grid unless you're trying hard to see it. I know different people have different sensibility to this, but most of the times it isn't even an issue until someone decides to judge the image while standing 1 foot away from the screen instead of seating at the proper viewing distance.
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post #25 of 104 Old 05-25-2019, 10:22 PM
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Just make sure it's not counterfeit: http://www.us.jvc.com/projectors/procision/dla_x790r/
I would say "counterfeit" is an overstatement. Are there people actually producing fake JVC projectors below specs and selling them as the real deal? Seems like an unlucrative business to me. And even if they got faulty projectors and swapped some parts with lower spec ones, then selling them as new or refurbished, would that even work? Can someone enlighten me on this? It seems "unlicensed" would be a more appropriate word.
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post #26 of 104 Old 05-25-2019, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
I can post you many shots from 150” screens which look truly amazing. Go on to AVForums.com and look for Brid2005, his 9400 throws up some incredible images on his 146” screen.

Epson TW9400/7400

Epson TW9400/7400

I just think some JVC owners might be surprised by the Epson.
I'm an Epson owner and fan, as you well know, but the whites in those pictures are blown out. The sky in Mortal Engines is not supposed to look like that. Contrast is cranked up way too much.

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Last edited by dimi123; 05-26-2019 at 12:36 AM.
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post #27 of 104 Old 05-26-2019, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi123 View Post
I'm an Epson owner and fan, as you well know, but the whites in those pictures are blown out. The sky in Mortal Engines is not supposed to look like that. Contrast is cranked up way too much.
I think Brid2005 actually stated the projector hasn’t been calibrated at this point, if I recall it only had 30hr on the bulb. The point of the images were more to show the pixel grid or lack of to be precise.

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post #28 of 104 Old 05-26-2019, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dandion View Post
If you can get a brand new 790R for 3900$Can, go for it as soon as you can. You can resale it for 4500$ Can the same day and make profit.

If you stick with Epson, let me know where you got the JVC deal and i'll upgrate my Sony VPL HW45ES right away!!
Daniel
The cost on the JVC is under 3800$ CDN right now. Retail is 4999$ projectors are just like TVs, they have a pretty big markup.

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post #29 of 104 Old 05-26-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
The cost on the JVC is under 3800$ CDN right now. Retail is 4999$ projectors are just like TVs, they have a pretty big markup.
3800$ is for the 590r and we are talking about the 790R here. The can$ for the 790r is 4999$ at eastporters.

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post #30 of 104 Old 05-26-2019, 09:51 AM
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When I made the move from Epson to JVC almost 3 years ago,
The most noticeable improvement for me was Black Level performance.

Native Contrast levels are a world apart in a light/reflection controlled room.

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Last edited by PioManiac; 05-26-2019 at 08:02 PM.
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