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post #61 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by microwiz View Post
The NX7 and NX9 have 3 more powerful polarizer. The NX5 had two less powerful polarizer, just like the RS440. That was what JVC told us when they introduced the new models.

Now if you are saying that isn't true, and the only difference is a piece of plastic then JVC told us the wrong information.
I was being partly sarcastic, but I won't know how much difference the 2nd aperture without the improved polarizers make unless I test it. Are the polarizers really improved, maybe, but there is also usually a measurable light loss between the RS-4xx and RS-5xx series and RS-6xx, but it was more defined in the older models. Hence, the RS-6x always had the lowest lumens readings, and the RS-4x had the highest. I doubt it's a coincidence and that is attributed to a higher optical treatment or tighter aperture hole in the light path helping that higher contrast. The theory is that most of the contrast is probably coming from this 2nd aperture / plastic filter, rather than the polarizers. I would guess the polarizers are there to further optimize the light wavelength to allow the contrast to be increased without losing as much brightness, but I'm not an absolute expert at this. With so many lumens to spare on the NX series, you could potentially just block a bunch of light and add your own treatments, you might reduce light 25% or even more, but you might also increase contrast.

I'm not sure it's really worth it though, because even doubling the contrast at a 20%+ loss of lumens might not be worth it. The reason I like the older RS-540/x790 is because the contrast remains so high even with the aperture open.

It wouldn't surprise me, companies do stuff like this all the time.

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post #62 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 09:03 AM
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I wear black braces on my teeth just in case #firstworldproblems
I just have all my guest put these on, before entering the room. Of course I had to have a black velvet patch made to cover the logo on the shirt. Only problem so far, we keep bumping into the walls and each other when we get up.
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post #63 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 10:26 AM
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I just have all my guest put these on, before entering the room. Of course I had to have a black velvet patch made to cover the logo on the shirt. Only problem so far, we keep bumping into the walls and each other when we get up.
It's nice knowing if you watch a movie at your house you can just seamlessly transition into robbing a 7/11
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post #64 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 11:44 AM
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Here is a spin for you: What a load of hooey
I just don't think Coderguy likes to spend money. The RS45 is about as outdated at this point as an Edsel. If spending money gets me what I want, I'll spend as much as I need to. I feel my theater is a great value considering the picture and audio quality. But I had to open my wallet to get there.
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post #65 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
It's nice knowing if you watch a movie at your house you can just seamlessly transition into robbing a 7/11
You have that backwards - you rob 7/11 for the movie snacks, then relax and watch " Heat ".
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post #66 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 12:36 PM
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I just don't think Coderguy likes to spend money. The RS45 is about as outdated at this point as an Edsel. If spending money gets me what I want, I'll spend as much as I need to. I feel my theater is a great value considering the picture and audio quality. But I had to open my wallet to get there.
I realize that price point colors my objectivity, no question.

What I think I read in the post I responded to was opinion based on old tech, and conjecture based on hearsay (not sure coderguy has actually seen an HT9060 or a JVC 4500). Furthermore, using the phrase "most people" removes credibility - I question any information when the words most, always, or never are used if there is no data to back it up.

IMO, broad brushstrokes, presented, or opined as fact poison internet dialog; especially when talking about things that are pleasing to the the senses. Hence the term hooey.
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post #67 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 01:39 PM
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Blah, blah, blah......get back to us when you've seen a comparison. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]
I'd never spend that kind of money on a projector, even at its newly discounted price.
Did compare $75,000 TV to the RS-640, have to say the 640 is my favorite so far, but haven't seen the nx9.

The TV and RS-640 were in the same room. Had the room to myself for 5 minutes or so.

Did the TV win, yes of course, but who cares...
I'm not going to post about it in this forum because it's irrelevant.
not sure if 5 minutes is really enough time to compare anything. I haven't seen any of these top end projectors but I trust Craig Peer and he has demoed most of these high end projectors. He says 4500 then that ends the discussion for me. There is an argument to me made to wait for its replacement, not to buy the new projector, only so you can get a huge discount on the JVC 4500.
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post #68 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
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Originally Posted by Willie View Post
Here is a spin for you: What a load of hooey [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]
I just don't think Coderguy likes to spend money. The RS45 is about as outdated at this point as an Edsel. If spending money gets me what I want, I'll spend as much as I need to. I feel my theater is a great value considering the picture and audio quality. But I had to open my wallet to get there.
+1

We all have that thing where we are willing to spend more money. Cars, houses, boats, watches, jewelry, vacations and for this forum: Home Theater. So you sacrifice spending on things from which you don't derive as much enjoyment, hence Craig and his circa 2005 Toyota Tacoma.

Sincerely Tristan Jones.
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post #69 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
+1

We all have that thing where we are willing to spend more money. Cars, houses, boats, watches, jewelry, vacations and for this forum: Home Theater. So you sacrifice spending on things from which you don't derive as much enjoyment, hence Craig and his circa 2005 Toyota Tacoma.

Sincerely Tristan Jones.
2001 Toyota Tacoma. My wife still drives a 1999 Honda Civic. No boats, cheap vacations, and the watches and jewelry spending is long past ( how much of that do you need ). I'm heading towards 3 years with the RS4500 !
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post #70 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 02:43 PM
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not sure if 5 minutes is really enough time to compare anything. I haven't seen any of these top end projectors but I trust Craig Peer and he has demoed most of these high end projectors. He says 4500 then that ends the discussion for me. There is an argument to me made to wait for its replacement, not to buy the new projector, only so you can get a huge discount on the JVC 4500.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've owned and used home theater projectors constantly since 2002 or so. And been to quite a few Cedia's and CES shows. And in the search for " the perfect projector ", this is as close as I can get right now. And I'm not the only one that thinks the RS4500 is the one of the best projectors available now - Woofer, Markmon1, Terry and others concur. They are a bargain now for what you get for your money IMO. I haven't had one problem with mine in 28 months.
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post #71 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
It's nice knowing if you watch a movie at your house you can just seamlessly transition into robbing a 7/11
We save that for intermission. How else do you expect us to afford all those treats during a movie.
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post #72 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 03:59 PM
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We save that for intermission. How else do you expect us to afford all those treats during a movie.
I need to find a high end wine store to rob !
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post #73 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 07:02 PM
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I realize that price point colors my objectivity, no question.
What I think I read in the post I responded to was opinion based on old tech,
Most people wouldn't spend the kind of money an RS-4500 costs, even most people in this forum. Well, it was an opinionated rant. No ht9060, but I've seen enough projectors to last me a life time really. I don't have the budget on this stuff to be spending over $10k on a single projector, I've spent more than that before in some years on this stuff because I used to have 6 projectors in my room at once (I think I even had 8 at once, but 2 were loaners).

I don't upgrade the RS-45 yet because I tried twice, and both newer JVC (RS-640 and RS-520) projectors would have been a loss in sharpness, but that's probably because I was looking at B-stock units. I had two opportunities for a good deal on those units, but I went and saw them in person, and they both had minor lens issue. Then I actually did order a holdover Benq ht3550 just to play around with, UPS decided to deliver it to me with half the box being crushed on one side. I turned the projector on and it wouldn't even boot, the thing was physically destroyed.

That experience has made me want to wait even longer, to get Native 4k + better contrast. It's just an awkward time to upgrade even now I think, there are a lot of 4k growing pains out there. It's not that I don't want to spend money, it's just from what I've seen, it's not worth the difference yet if I can get something that has a bit more contrast without the DI issue. I owned an HP screen for years, I had my fill with brightness. All I need is 'bright enough'.

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post #74 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 07:09 PM
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I don't want an NX series with 25k:1 native and a broken yellowing DI, that's just my opinion. It's not worth the upgrade to me, even though it's sharper and brighter.

I've been looking to increase contrast even further ever since getting the RS-45, not going backwards. 4k from my seating distance just isn't the end-all be-all, oh it's definitely worth it, but mainly only on Native disks. I'm 10' from a 120" scope / 106" 16:9, at that distance e-shift helps a tiny bit probably, and Native 4k a bit more, but realistically I want more contrast. That's the entire point I like JVC, why go sideways with it.

Either I get a JVC Rs-540 / x790 or 640 or I wait longer and longer, or I find some used or b-stock JVC to hold me over a few years. Tried that already and it didn't work, so waiting for something used to pop up on Craig's list that I can see i person before I buy. Only thing available in my area right now on Craig's list is an RS-56, it probably wouldn't be worth it overall, mise well wait a bit longer.

Am hoping an RS-640 deal pops up on Craig's list maybe, or wait until JVC releases next year's NX series and try to hack the contrast, haha.

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post #75 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 07:51 PM
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I need to find a high end wine store to rob !
Or bring your projector over to my place for a laser shoot out and I’ll bust open an SLV or Joseph Phelps vertical.
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post #76 of 82 Old 06-10-2019, 10:13 PM
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Or bring your projector over to my place for a laser shoot out and I’ll bust open an SLV or Joseph Phelps vertical.


Where are you? Almost any projector will be easier to bring to my place than the other way around. The RS4500 weighs 85 pounds!


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post #77 of 82 Old 06-11-2019, 04:11 AM
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I've heard people tell me go look at the Sony's and the contrast looks almost the same, the contrast looked like crap except for the vw1100es. All the other Sony's look like Epsons.

People cherry pick the highest contrast anyone ever measured, but the truth is their panels are incredibly inconsistent even without degradation. Part of the problem is contrast is lost in the lens, and Sony's lens still have problems on SOME units (a good number). Then some have degrading panels. The contrast on Sonys is lost to the throw position, unless you get a perfect lens and have the perfect throw, your contrast is going to be 1/4 to 1/2 what the highest measurements say, and that is before degradation. The more issue with the lens, the more contrast that is lost to the throw position.

Based on what people have told me about the Sonys, cannot really trust this forum sometimes...

The problem is most people watch the wrong type of content when comparing black levels. Once you are at home and after watching a projector for 100+ hours, that's when you really know the differences.
Wow you just nailed the above. It's all so true.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #78 of 82 Old 06-11-2019, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've owned and used home theater projectors constantly since 2002 or so. And been to quite a few Cedia's and CES shows. And in the search for " the perfect projector ", this is as close as I can get right now. And I'm not the only one that thinks the RS4500 is the one of the best projectors available now - Woofer, Markmon1, Terry and others concur. They are a bargain now for what you get for your money IMO. I haven't had one problem with mine in 28 months.
Woofer talked me into buying an RS4500. I was coming from an RS640 and had just been screwed with 4K sony's and their super low contrast and was tired of trading resolution for contrast. I was out on the RS4500 based on the specs. But woofer convinced me that the black performance was almost as good as my RS640 due to incredible dynamic dimming. Turns out he was right. The RS4500 is the first projector I've had in ages that I thought I could just keep this forever. I won't even care when 8K comes out (especially after seeing how close I have to get to really benefit from 4K, 8K will be a waste).
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post #79 of 82 Old 06-11-2019, 05:01 AM
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The RS45 is about as outdated at this point as an Edsel. If spending money gets me what I want, I'll spend as much as I need to. I feel my theater is a great value considering the picture and audio quality. But I had to open my wallet to get there.
I would say improvements in motion and contrast are what I'm looking for, not so much sharpness at my seating distance. That kind of eliminates the NX series this year at least. The RS-45 may be old, but the image is still very competitive for my setup and at my seating distance.

At my seating distance, contrast is more important than sharpness, and my RS-45 is very sharp anyhow, the lens has 0 focus uniformity issue and almost perfect convergence. The most amazing thing is I'm at max H-shift and it's still almost perfect. One problem I had with the RS-67 and RS-640 that I tested was the lens CA was very apparent when I enabled max h-shift and the focus got worse when maximum shift was used, I tested it at the dealer. That is why I didn't buy it, it was a steal too, amazing price, but he was trying to get rid of it because it was a bad sample IMO.

I have owned around 12 projectors, the only projectors sharper than the RS-45 was the Mits hc7900/hc8000, the Benq w7000 (barely sharper, and I mean barely), and RS-45 is # 3 out of all 12 projectors. The Mits was king of the hill in sharpness if you got it in the right mounting spot, sharper than a Runco but not as sharp as a Samsung a900 (nothing is).

It doesn't matter how old the projectors are, the technology hasn't changed that much for JVC's other than the lamps and the now Native 4k. The RS-56/57 and 66/67 are too dim, as the RS-4x series was always slightly brighter. The RS-4910 was the brightest pre-RS-4xx/5xx/6xx series though AFIK. So I could go for an RS-4910 I suppose, but I don't know...

I'm looking for a deal on an RS-620 or RS-640 preferably, but I will also settle for an RS-5xx series. I just need to take some time and go hunt one down on Craig's list or the classifieds, but some people are asking way too much.

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post #80 of 82 Old 06-11-2019, 05:06 AM
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As far as the NX series goes, several people have told me they wouldn't trade an RS-520/540/620/640 for an NX5 or NX7. Mississippi Man is one of them, but there are several others. Manni likes his, and some people speak high praise, but MM has installed a lot of them, and he says only the NX9 beats it.

Especially at my seating distance, doesn't really make sense to lose that much contrast for some sharpness. Motion might be better, but I don't know, I cannot tell even if I examined an NX unit. I can never tell about motion at a dealer, it's hard to compare motion without A/B. I can only tell when I'm watching it at my own theater when it comes to motion for some reason.

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post #81 of 82 Old 06-11-2019, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I would say improvements in motion and contrast are what I'm looking for, not so much sharpness at my seating distance. That kind of eliminates the NX series this year at least. The RS-45 may be old, but the image is still very competitive for my setup and at my seating distance.



At my seating distance, contrast is more important than sharpness, and my RS-45 is very sharp anyhow, the lens has 0 focus uniformity issue and almost perfect convergence. The most amazing thing is I'm at max H-shift and it's still almost perfect. One problem I had with the RS-67 that I tested was the lens CA was very apparent when I enabled max h-shift and the focus got worse when maximum shift was used, I tested it at the dealer. That is why I didn't buy it, it was a steal too, amazing price, but he was trying to get rid of it because it was a bad sample IMO.



I have owned around 12 projectors, the only projectors sharper than the RS-45 was the Mits hc7900/hc8000, the Benq w7000 (barely sharper, and I mean barely), and RS-45 is # 3 out of all 15 projectors. The Mits was king of the hill in sharpness if you got it in the right mounting spot, sharper than a Runco but not as sharp as a Samsung a900 (nothing is).



It doesn't matter how old the projectors are, the technology hasn't changed that much for JVC's. Saw an RS-46 and it looks identical to the RS-45 almost, better color and lamp. The RS-56/57 and 66/67 are too dim, as the RS-4x series was always slightly brighter. The RS-4910 was the brightest pre-RS-4xx/5xx/6xx series though AFIK. So I could go for an RS-4910 I suppose, but I don't know...



I'm looking for a deal on an RS-620 or RS-640 preferably, but I will also settle for an RS-5xx series. I just need to take some time and go hunt one down on Craig's list or the classifieds, but some people are asking way too much.


I was just giving you a bit of a ribbing - if the RS45 still works well for you, keep using it. I’ll guess the siren call of 4K will get you eventually. The picture is just too good!


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post #82 of 82 Old 06-11-2019, 05:27 AM
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I was just giving you a bit of a ribbing - if the RS45 still works well for you, keep using it. I’ll guess the siren call of 4K will get you eventually. The picture is just too good!
I'm already 'almost' watching 4k compared to some peoples seating distances...
I only started using a SCOPE screen about a year ago, so my setup is 'almost new' to me. I'm still just enjoying that, and I upgraded my audio which helped a lot.

The question isn't if I should or will keep the RS-45, I will upgrade when the time is right, when I see the 4k projectors get higher contrast, or I'll just go with a used/B-stock RS-5xx/6xx as a 3-4 year holdover unit.
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