Theo Z65 (Upgraded Optoma UHZ65) Owners Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 105 Old 11-02-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
It's true. All of it.

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Okay, I just found it on their blog section. It says November 18th, though.

That's fantastic that Kris will be there.

I can't wait for the comparisons.

I wish there were a comparison between the Theo and the base UHZ too. I would like to know 1) whether the filter that widens color and enhances contrast makes RBE more or less prevalent than the standard UHZ65 and 2) whether the Theo has less brightness compression artifacts when running in DB2 when compared with the UHZ65 in the same mode.
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post #62 of 105 Old 11-18-2019, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by LaserMan207 View Post
I heard the comparison between the Nx7 with DTM and the Theo-Lite will happen on Nov 17. Also heard Kris will be there as well to cal both projectors. I have no idea how long after it will take to show up on their blog. Maybe 2 weeks after?
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
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Does anyone have any information on whether this comparison with the projectors calibrated by Kris Deering took place?
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post #63 of 105 Old 11-18-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Does anyone have any information on whether this comparison with the projectors calibrated by Kris Deering took place?
It took place. Haven't heard any feedback.

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post #64 of 105 Old 11-18-2019, 10:02 PM
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Judging on the dimness i would say the left is NX7.

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post #65 of 105 Old 11-18-2019, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Okay, I just found it on their blog section. It says November 18th, though.

That's fantastic that Kris will be there.

I can't wait for the comparisons.

I wish there were a comparison between the Theo and the base UHZ too. I would like to know 1) whether the filter that widens color and enhances contrast makes RBE more or less prevalent than the standard UHZ65 and 2) whether the Theo has less brightness compression artifacts when running in DB2 when compared with the UHZ65 in the same mode.
I think there is a video or written review of the Theo and non-theo. Let me see if I can find it. It may not answer every question you have but I think I remember seeing it.

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post #66 of 105 Old 11-18-2019, 10:07 PM
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I think there is a video or written review of the Theo and non-theo. Let me see if I can find it. It may not answer every question you have but I think I remember seeing it.
Here...

https://www.tvspecialists.com/uhz65-...-uhz65-part-i/
https://www.tvspecialists.com/uhz65-...uhz65-part-ii/

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post #67 of 105 Old 11-18-2019, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TimHuey View Post
Juding on the dimness i would say the left is NX7.

It's hard for me to say which is which because the NX7 in high lamp is pretty bright and calibrated the UHZ65 is not hitting its 3000 spec'd lumens and the additional filter used on the Theo takes away some light too. But I have to say from a sharpness perspective, both of those images look great!
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post #68 of 105 Old 11-18-2019, 10:25 PM
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I think I saw these but thank you.
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post #69 of 105 Old 11-19-2019, 08:25 AM
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Image on the left is the NX7. I had a great time with the folks at TVS, it was a fun day. One thing that everyone here interested needs to keep in mind is that we found that taking picture and video of the side by side comparison didn't at all show the real world differences that we were seeing in person. Ted tried his best to make them as good as possible, but unfortunately it is really difficult, if not impossible, to capture what you are seeing in person. Sometimes the differences in the pictures/video were only somewhat different, sometimes it was massive compared to what we were seeing on screen.

I'll chime in with personal thoughts and stuff after they post their info/video as it is their event. It was a fun opportunity though and I had a really good time. If anyone is in the Salt Lake area they should really go and see the two projectors side by side for themselves to make a more informed opinion if they are in the market for one of these.
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post #70 of 105 Old 11-19-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Image on the left is the NX7. I had a great time with the folks at TVS, it was a fun day. One thing that everyone here interested needs to keep in mind is that we found that taking picture and video of the side by side comparison didn't at all show the real world differences that we were seeing in person. Ted tried his best to make them as good as possible, but unfortunately it is really difficult, if not impossible, to capture what you are seeing in person. Sometimes the differences in the pictures/video were only somewhat different, sometimes it was massive compared to what we were seeing on screen.



I'll chime in with personal thoughts and stuff after they post their info/video as it is their event. It was a fun opportunity though and I had a really good time. If anyone is in the Salt Lake area they should really go and see the two projectors side by side for themselves to make a more informed opinion if they are in the market for one of these.
Thanks Kris. Really anxious to hear your thoughts.

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post #71 of 105 Old 11-19-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Image on the left is the NX7. I had a great time with the folks at TVS, it was a fun day. One thing that everyone here interested needs to keep in mind is that we found that taking picture and video of the side by side comparison didn't at all show the real world differences that we were seeing in person. Ted tried his best to make them as good as possible, but unfortunately it is really difficult, if not impossible, to capture what you are seeing in person. Sometimes the differences in the pictures/video were only somewhat different, sometimes it was massive compared to what we were seeing on screen.

I'll chime in with personal thoughts and stuff after they post their info/video as it is their event. It was a fun opportunity though and I had a really good time. If anyone is in the Salt Lake area they should really go and see the two projectors side by side for themselves to make a more informed opinion if they are in the market for one of these.
I took a flight out last month and really enjoyed myself. They sponsored an open house with many vendors there. Unfortunately the shipment for the ALR screen for the vendor didn't arrive so we had to make do holding up at small 1 foot square piece of demo screen. The Theo was impressive. But my fear is that they upgraded the UHZ65 and that was quite a while ago and projector technology moves fast and they should get access to an even newer model soon that may be even easier to upgrade and brighter. You can' wait forever but something keeps telling me we are so close to a breakthrough in brightness.

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post #72 of 105 Old 11-22-2019, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Image on the left is the NX7. I had a great time with the folks at TVS, it was a fun day. One thing that everyone here interested needs to keep in mind is that we found that taking picture and video of the side by side comparison didn't at all show the real world differences that we were seeing in person. Ted tried his best to make them as good as possible, but unfortunately it is really difficult, if not impossible, to capture what you are seeing in person. Sometimes the differences in the pictures/video were only somewhat different, sometimes it was massive compared to what we were seeing on screen.

I'll chime in with personal thoughts and stuff after they post their info/video as it is their event. It was a fun opportunity though and I had a really good time. If anyone is in the Salt Lake area they should really go and see the two projectors side by side for themselves to make a more informed opinion if they are in the market for one of these.
Would love to see this.
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post #73 of 105 Old 11-22-2019, 12:19 PM
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Happy Friday, everyone! So, it IS Friday and I still haven't heard any other news on the comparison Kris attended. I haven't seen any videos of the event up yet either.

On a different note, another forum member and I had been present at a different showing held at Next Projection's place where we had the base UHZ65 and the NX7 on hand at the same time. I know which of those looked better to me. But this Theo/Theo Lite version has me curious about a few things. 1. Is the reduced light output caused by the Theo's filter helpful in reducing RBE? 2. Does the Theo improve on native contrast over the base UHZ65 and if so by how much?
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post #74 of 105 Old 11-22-2019, 12:28 PM
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Happy Friday, everyone! So, it IS Friday and I still haven't heard any other news on the comparison Kris attended. I haven't seen any videos of the event up yet either.



On a different note, another forum member and I had been present at a different showing held at Next Projection's place where we had the base UHZ65 and the NX7 on hand at the same time. I know which of those looked better to me. But this Theo/Theo Lite version has me curious about a few things. 1. Is the reduced light output caused by the Theo's filter helpful in reducing RBE? 2. Does the Theo improve on native contrast over the base UHZ65 and if so by how much?
Comparison video is supposed to go up today on TVsPro YouTube channel.

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post #75 of 105 Old 11-22-2019, 12:43 PM
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Comparison video is supposed to go up today on TVsPro YouTube channel.

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Great! Thanks.
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post #76 of 105 Old 11-22-2019, 04:09 PM
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Happy Friday, everyone! So, it IS Friday and I still haven't heard any other news on the comparison Kris attended. I haven't seen any videos of the event up yet either.

On a different note, another forum member and I had been present at a different showing held at Next Projection's place where we had the base UHZ65 and the NX7 on hand at the same time. I know which of those looked better to me. But this Theo/Theo Lite version has me curious about a few things. 1. Is the reduced light output caused by the Theo's filter helpful in reducing RBE? 2. Does the Theo improve on native contrast over the base UHZ65 and if so by how much?
1. No
2. No. Perceived blacks will be better because the light output goes down (like a ND filter) but overall contrast stays the same.
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post #77 of 105 Old 11-22-2019, 04:16 PM
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Also, just so it is REALLY clear, this was NOT meant as a comparison of the JVC and the Theo projector in the normal sense. The guys at TVS said right off the bat that they don't think the Theo is as good as the JVC (it isn't), only to show how close they felt it performed compared to a reference projector like the JVC with a lot of content in a normal viewing situation. Their room was not what I would call an ideal room for the JVC (white walls that reflected A LOT of light back at the screen, plus the light scatter from the projector image next to the JVC image), but even with this the difference in blacks between the JVC and the Theo with content that was really dark was night and day (the clip from the Revenant was extremely eye opening for them). Most of the tests were content they picked that played to the strengths of their projector from their testing and tweaking. Once I started suggesting that they look at content that is actually difficult for tone mapping and projectors with lower contrast, the separation between the projectors became immense (to put it lightly). Most of the content they had selected was like just comparing cars at 55 mph, fairly easy to look good regardless of what type of projector/tone mapping you were using. Their tone map also hard clips at 1000 nits, so anything above that clips. This made movies like the Meg look pretty bad with massive amounts of clipping and blown out images.

I'll chime in more after they post. I'm really glad TVS was so open to looking at a variety of content and learning more about HDR, tone mapping and how to compare projectors. This was NOT what I would call an objective comparison by any stretch of the imagination. But after I setup the JVC and showed them its performance I think it was a HUGE eye opener for them. They commented on how they had no idea how good the JVC could look properly setup or just how much better frame by frame processing was for HDR until I started showing them content that actually stresses.

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post #78 of 105 Old 11-22-2019, 10:30 PM
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But after I setup the JVC and showed them its performance I think it was a HUGE eye opener for them. They commented on how they had no idea how good the JVC could look properly setup or just how much better frame by frame processing was for HDR until I started showing them content that actually stresses.
Thanks for giving us this context and really for your contributions to this community in general.
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post #79 of 105 Old 11-22-2019, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Also, just so it is REALLY clear, this was NOT meant as a comparison of the JVC and the Theo projector in the normal sense. The guys at TVS said right off the bat that they don't think the Theo is as good as the JVC (it isn't), only to show how close they felt it performed compared to a reference projector like the JVC with a lot of content in a normal viewing situation. Their room was not what I would call an ideal room for the JVC (white walls that reflected A LOT of light back at the screen, plus the light scatter from the projector image next to the JVC image), but even with this the difference in blacks between the JVC and the Theo with content that was really dark was night and day (the clip from the Revenant was extremely eye opening for them). Most of the tests were content they picked that played to the strengths of their projector from their testing and tweaking. Once I started suggesting that they look at content that is actually difficult for tone mapping and projectors with lower contrast, the separation between the projectors became immense (to put it lightly). Most of the content they had selected was like just comparing cars at 55 mph, fairly easy to look good regardless of what type of projector/tone mapping you were using. Their tone map also hard clips at 1000 nits, so anything above that clips. This made movies like the Meg look pretty bad with massive amounts of clipping and blown out images.

I'll chime in more after they post. I'm really glad TVS was so open to looking at a variety of content and learning more about HDR, tone mapping and how to compare projectors. This was NOT what I would call an objective comparison by any stretch of the imagination. But after I setup the JVC and showed them its performance I think it was a HUGE eye opener for them. They commented on how they had no idea how good the JVC could look properly setup or just how much better frame by frame processing was for HDR until I started showing them content that actually stresses.
Pretty much what I figured.

Hard to take a review serious when the review/comparison comes from the company selling one of the products lol.
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post #80 of 105 Old 11-22-2019, 11:24 PM
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They really went out of their way to be fair and not censor anything. They didn’t try and play up anything or play down anything either. Again, great group of guys that were a pleasure to work with. They are trying to give DLP fans an option and have great intentions.

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post #81 of 105 Old 11-23-2019, 05:58 AM
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Pretty much what I figured.

Hard to take a review serious when the review/comparison comes from the company selling one of the products lol.
They also sell the NX7.

Sure, by now it's cliche' to say front projection is a two piece utility but I like to think of it as three: the projector, the screen, and the room/surrounding conditions. So the right content under the right conditions can make a world of a difference sometimes.
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post #82 of 105 Old 11-23-2019, 01:00 PM
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Here is the review video with @Kris Deering


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post #83 of 105 Old 11-23-2019, 02:29 PM
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Just watched the video and they did a good job with the editing and getting all the right info. The hardest thing here is that the video itself just doesn't show the same thing we were seeing in person, but they also mention that in the commentary and in the text on screen. The one that is misrepresented by the video the most is the scene in The Revenant. If you were there in person the difference between the two images was staggering (to put it lightly), where the video makes them seem somewhat more comparable. It wasn't in any way, shape or form if you were in the room. Before we were taping they were really blown away by the difference not only in the black levels (which was immense even with the room hampering the JVC) but the highlight detail. His exposure was making the Theo look like you could make out the face nearly as well and that was the opposite. It was probably more drastic than comparing a pristine 4K image to an old VHS tape.

The color balance issue isn't as obvious either. Their projector had a pretty noticeable blue overcast that was REALLY obvious in the scenes in Revenant as well. The other thing to keep in mind is that because they added this color filter into the projector, it affects 709 AND 2020 images. You can't take it out of the light path when you watch 709 content, so content will be oversaturated compared to the JVC which calibrates to 709 nearly perfectly. The NX7 they had suffered a bit with green as it had the hue shift toward yellow, so it lost a bit of P3 coverage compared to some others I've tested, but its saturation tracking was very good overall with dE's well below 3, even at 100%. The Theo had marginal saturation tracking and was oversaturated in quite a few colors. This would be even more pronounced with SDR content but they focused on HDR only throughout the video.
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I give TVSpro a ton of credit for inviting Kris to do this. A lot of companies would rather take the opposite tack and go into defensive mode.

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I give TVSpro a ton of credit for inviting Kris to do this. A lot of companies would rather take the opposite tack and go into defensive mode.
Very true

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I finished watching the video on my OLED. On most of the images, I preferred the JVC, but there were a couple that I thought the Theo looked better. Some good info in the video. Definitely worth watching.


To reiterate my previous post, kudos to TVSpro for inviting Kris to their location. I know I have given them a hard time in the past about some of their reviews. They were willing to bring in Kris and do a fair comparison. TVSpro was willing to step out of their comfort zone and take a chance instead of digging in their heels. Good job by all. Coming together to learn is the way to improve the industry as a whole.

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post #87 of 105 Old 11-24-2019, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
2. Does the Theo improve on native contrast over the base UHZ65 and if so by how much?
In the Video TVSpro (2:20) states that the Theo internal light path has been modified to increase native contrast over the UHZ65.
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post #88 of 105 Old 11-24-2019, 11:24 PM
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In the Video TVSpro (2:20) states that the Theo internal light path has been modified to increase native contrast over the UHZ65.
Hi, Dun. I watched that portion beginning at 2:20 and what I heard was that the black level was significantly lower than the unmodified Optoma but I did not hear that contrast was increased.
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post #89 of 105 Old 11-25-2019, 07:10 AM
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1. No
2. No. Perceived blacks will be better because the light output goes down (like a ND filter) but overall contrast stays the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
In the Video TVSpro (2:20) states that the Theo internal light path has been modified to increase native contrast over the UHZ65.
Either you didn't see or didn't want to acknowledge Kris's answer to the question.

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post #90 of 105 Old 11-25-2019, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Hi, Dun. I watched that portion beginning at 2:20 and what I heard was that the black level was significantly lower than the unmodified Optoma but I did not hear that contrast was increased.
Here's what TVSpro (Ted) stated:

"...And then the 3rd thing we do is we are able to reduce the reflections inside the light box somewhat so that our black level is even significantly lower than a normal unmodified Optoma...."



In all optical systems if you reduce internal reflections and prevent stray reflections from striking the focal plane, you will increase contrast.
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