Will the new JVC LX-NZ3 be native 4K? - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 109 Old 09-15-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
You could be right and I am sure that you love your RS4500. It is an excellent projector. However, I am very happy with my RS3000 for now. Who knows what I will be thinking in 5 years? I'm sure Mike would like for me to purchase a new projector every year. Maybe my next one will be a laser. There is something appealing about having a toy with "Frik'n Laser Beams".
If you bought an RS4500, he could only sell you a new one every 7 - 10 years !

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post #92 of 109 Old 09-16-2019, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by momochan View Post
Only one HDMI 2.0 (HDCP 2.2) port? (@ 2:35 into the IFA video posted by Frank - post #50 )

That's correct, I had misplaced the German product sheet. It features an illustration of access possibilities, input "HDMI 1" is underlined with a field reading "HDCP 2.2" which does not show up below HDMI Input 2, therefore only HDMI Input 1 appears to be HDCP 2.2 compatible.

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post #93 of 109 Old 09-16-2019, 01:15 AM
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So does this projector run JVC's firmware or is it really just a benq rebadged? Does the laser shut off entirely on fade-to-black? How's the laser dimming algorithms? I assume this can accept 4k/60/RGB input?

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
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post #94 of 109 Old 09-16-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
So does this projector run JVC's firmware or is it really just a benq rebadged? Does the laser shut off entirely on fade-to-black? How's the laser dimming algorithms? I assume this can accept 4k/60/RGB input?
I have no idea who wrote the firmware.

"Dynamic light source control achieves high image quality and (infinite)  : 1 contrast
With mechanical apertures, there is some delay when adjusting light output, but JVC’s laser light source can control light output instantaneously, so dynamic brightness adjustment is possible with little or no delay. By controlling the output of the laser according to the brightness of the scene, the LX-NZ3 can reproduce images closer to reality. Moreover, when a complete black signal is input, contrast of : 1 can be achieved by controlling the laser output."
http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2019/consu...3_release.html


All 4K DLP chips can accept and display 4K/60/RGB.
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post #95 of 109 Old 09-16-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
So does this projector run JVC's firmware or is it really just a benq rebadged? Does the laser shut off entirely on fade-to-black? How's the laser dimming algorithms? I assume this can accept 4k/60/RGB input?
It has JVC's auto Tone mapping.
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post #96 of 109 Old 09-16-2019, 12:47 PM
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For folks worried about contrast and black levels, it seems to me this new JVC is clearly geared towards the living/media room market rather than dedicated/bat cave markets. Which means savvy shoppers would pair it in a room with ambient light and a black/dark grey ALR screen. Which means contrast numbers don't mean much, and perceived contrast becomes the thing. My Epson 3700 on a 1.4 gain black ALR screen in my living room, as an example, way outperforms its contrast specs. Between the white and color brightness and the magic of ALR screens in ambient light lit living rooms, colors pop, blacks are deep, and it in no way looks "washed out," even in dark scenes. In fact, dark scenes with bright objects/highlights can look faux-HDR!

My only concern with the JVC would be RBE.

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post #97 of 109 Old 09-20-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
It's not fake 4K if it presents 8.3 million addressable pixels on screen. Here's three comparison images:

NX-7:

https://rehders.de/wp-content/upload...B.-Rehders.jpg

and

UHD300X:

https://rehders.de/wp-content/upload...B.-Rehders.jpg

VW270:

https://rehders.de/wp-content/upload...g-Detail-1.jpg

I would rank the Sony first, then the UHD300X and then the NX-7. The NX-7 is worse than the VW270, so does that mean that the NX-7 is fake 4K? In this comparison video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUroCr7AtDo&t=1807s
, the NX-7 is compared to a TheoZ65, with the .67 4k XPR DMD at 17:14 and comes away distinctly 2nd best. So again is the NX-7 fake 4K, or is it simply that there are differences between true 4K display technology?
NX-7 isn't fake 4k, its native 4k, just highly processed. The problem is that sometimes 3LCD native 4K is not as sharp as single chip DLP 0.66 (2716 x 1528 pixel shifted to UHD) due to the color bleed and alignment issues associated with 3 chips vs 1 chip. Add better optics, and 0.66" DMD can actually beat native 4K for resolution and sharpness IMO.

Case in point; BenQ HT9060 (single chip 0.66" DLP with LED engine and no colorwheel) vs Sony 295ES (3 chip reflective LCD at native 4k resolution):

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Last edited by ccarota; 09-20-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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post #98 of 109 Old 09-20-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ccarota View Post
NX-7 isn't fake 4k, its native 4k, just highly processed. The problem is that sometimes 3LCD native 4K is not as sharp as single chip DLP 0.66 (2716 x 1528 pixel shifted to UHD) due to the color bleed and alignment issues associated with 3 chips vs 1 chip. Add better optics, and 0.66" DMD can actually beat native 4K IMO.

Case in point; BenQ HT9060 (single chip 0.66" dlep with LED engine and no colorwheel) vs Sony 295ES (3 chip reflective LCD at native 4k resolution):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iYbVMeeKdU
I wasn't stating that the NX-7 was fake 4K but was making the point that different 4K displays have their pluses and minuses.

This video shows some of the drawbacks of JVC's 4K LCOS technology, at 16:49 and 26:27:

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post #99 of 109 Old 09-20-2019, 02:34 PM
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I really don't understand why JVC went ahead with that unit.
I am a DLP fanboy, so I really like when a good DLP machine comes out, regardless who makes it.
But this move by JVC really puzzles me.

They market it as a home-cinema product, while having their own DLP-competing DILA units for the same purpose.
Still, it is quite amusing to see a DLP machine coming from them, with that hilarious "Infinity:1" contrast claim..
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post #100 of 109 Old 09-20-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
I wasn't stating that the NX-7 was fake 4K but was making the point that different 4K displays have their pluses and minuses.

This video shows some of the drawbacks of JVC's 4K LCOS technology, at 16:49 and 26:27:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUro...JFYxrVWf9OfYZa
I understood, and have seen that video. I just think its mind blowing that the effects of chip convergence are so severe that a lower resolution single chip DLP can actually beat native 4k 3LCD chips for sharpness.
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Last edited by ccarota; 09-20-2019 at 02:46 PM.
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post #101 of 109 Old 09-20-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by evonimos View Post
I really don't understand why JVC went ahead with that unit.
I am a DLP fanboy, so I really like when a good DLP machine comes out, regardless who makes it.
But this move by JVC really puzzles me.

They market it as a home-cinema product, while having their own DLP-competing DILA units for the same purpose.
Still, it is quite amusing to see a DLP machine coming from them, with that hilarious "Infinity:1" contrast claim..
My theory is they want to enter the lower end of the market without losing any potential sales from the RS540 or NX5... so they are leveraging their already developed tech like HDR tone mapping as value added and hoping you'll pay almost $4,000 USD for a 0.47" DMD DLP chip projector
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post #102 of 109 Old 09-20-2019, 03:28 PM
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Anyone knows whether it's their first ever home-cinema oriented DLP??

For me it looks like they're shooting themselves in the foot.
Mixing up DLPs with their relatively established, rivalling tech(?)
Why?

From what I have seen so far in youtube videos, this unit was only a sideshow on CEDIA.
Understandably they don't want to put this machine next to their DILA lineup too much.
However, when they were doing a presentation for the new auto-HDR gimmick, they briefly presented it at the very start.

It is like they are undecided on what to do with it.
Pretty wierd...

Last edited by evonimos; 09-20-2019 at 03:38 PM.
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post #103 of 109 Old 09-20-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by evonimos View Post
Anyone knows whether it's their first ever home-cinema oriented DLP??

For me it looks like they're shooting themselves in the foot.
Mixing up DLPs with their relatively established, rivalling tech(?)
Why?

From what I have seen so far in youtube videos, this unit was only a sideshow on CEDIA.
Understandably they don't want to put this machine next to their DILA lineup too much.
However, when they were doing a presentation for the new auto-HDR gimmick, they briefly presented it at the very start.

It is like they are undecided on what to do with it.
Pretty wierd...
They brought out the LX-UH1 last year:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC-LX-UH1B.htm

It's actually a pretty good machine:

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post #104 of 109 Old 09-20-2019, 08:28 PM
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I think it has already been stated that this pj fills a niche that some of their customers were asking for.

Also, why do people keep rolling out the TVSpro reviews to validate their confirmation bias on the superiority of these DLPs? TVSpro themselves even said in their written review that JVC, Epson and their Theo all have their place.

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post #105 of 109 Old 09-20-2019, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evonimos View Post
Anyone knows whether it's their first ever home-cinema oriented DLP??

For me it looks like they're shooting themselves in the foot.
Mixing up DLPs with their relatively established, rivalling tech(?)
Why?

From what I have seen so far in youtube videos, this unit was only a sideshow on CEDIA.
Understandably they don't want to put this machine next to their DILA lineup too much.
However, when they were doing a presentation for the new auto-HDR gimmick, they briefly presented it at the very start.

It is like they are undecided on what to do with it.
Pretty wierd...
No, not their first DLP. They had one last year and if you go back a few years, they had a 720P DLP. This DLP is not geared toward light controlled cinema rooms. This unit is geared toward family rooms. It should be one of the better performing units for 4K HDR for a DLP, due to JVC's auto tone mapping of HDR.
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post #106 of 109 Old 09-21-2019, 02:56 AM
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Ok, but the problem is the very competitive market in the DLP realm.
DLP market is a totally different territory than the insulated domain of DILA.

There are 4K DLP projectors right now that can be had for less than 1500 bucks.
It is gonna be a much more difficult job to market a high-priced DLP against the stiff competition.

And they still have to buy their DMDs from Texas Instruments like everyone else, so not much margin for profit i suppose.
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post #107 of 109 Old 09-21-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by evonimos View Post
Ok, but the problem is the very competitive market in the DLP realm.
DLP market is a totally different territory than the insulated domain of DILA.

There are 4K DLP projectors right now that can be had for less than 1500 bucks.
It is gonna be a much more difficult job to market a high-priced DLP against the stiff competition.

And they still have to buy their DMDs from Texas Instruments like everyone else, so not much margin for profit i suppose.
There is no insulated domain for DILA. DILA stands on its own, based on image quality. Look at the guys in the forum that have good light controlled rooms. Nearly all of them have LCOS/SXRD projectors. Those that don't, usually have screens so large, that they have to look at DLP to be able to light them up. These people would not be spending more money, buying LCOS/SXRD, if they could get equal or better performance for less.

DLP is much cheaper to produce than LCOS or SXRD. One, all the companies buy their DLP light engines from TI and then apply their lens, light source and software tweaks. The customer base for DLP is very large, so cost gets spread out. LCOS (JVC) and SXRD (Sony) are developed by JVC and Sony independently and the market is much smaller. On top of that, we are talking three panels, instead of one panel. So costs for LCOS/SXRD are much higher. This gives a huge price advantage to DLP over LCOS/SXRD.

As for JVC's new DLP, what competes against it at a lower price point that has equal features? The JVC has 3,000 lumens of laser, plenty of vertical and horizontal lens shift and auto tone mapping. You do not find those features on cheap DLP's.
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post #108 of 109 Old 09-23-2019, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Beat them in HDR tone mapping capability
Is there a reason to believe JVC have implemented the tone mapping in this themselves instead of just using whatever Benq already had in there? It there significant difference on the tonemapping of the other JVC DLP units vs the Benq heritage?
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post #109 of 109 Old 09-23-2019, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bobof View Post
Is there a reason to believe JVC have implemented the tone mapping in this themselves instead of just using whatever Benq already had in there? It there significant difference on the tonemapping of the other JVC DLP units vs the Benq heritage?
At CEDIA JVC said they installed their HDR auto tone mapping solution. Last years JVC DLP does not have JVC's auto tone mapping.
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