Will the new JVC LX-NZ3 be native 4K? - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 267 Old 12-13-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post
Auto tone mapping should mean less clipping.
Agreed.
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post #212 of 267 Old 12-13-2019, 10:08 AM
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Bright scenes look fantastic with this projector. I was streaming Outlander Season 3 from Netflix.
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post #213 of 267 Old 12-14-2019, 08:18 AM
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Mike, thank you for your posts and answering various questions from the group. I am happy that you were able to dampen the potential noise issue in full lamp mode with your tests on a production unit. I ordered the LX-NZ3W, and it should be delivered towards the end of next week. It will be up and running before Christmas.
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post #214 of 267 Old 12-14-2019, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I measured the SPL of the projector from 3' away.

Eco I am getting around 23db.
Normal around 30db.
Variable Low around 30db
Variable High around 30db

My family room does not have light control and has lots of windows. Watching some soccer right now on 127" diagonal 16:9 1.3 gain FireHawk screen and image looks good, even in Eco mode. Will go for a run and when I get back it will be dark, so will look at a few scenes from so movies.

Better than the official JVC figures, incredible but I don't believe it for a second.

You really touched the perfect copy.

The manufacturer announces at best 29 dB in economy mode and we all know that the manufacturer figures are always optimized.
So there is no chance that the NZ3 will reach 23 dB. Besides, I'd be surprised to know what sound level meter you use to go so low, Mike?
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post #215 of 267 Old 01-05-2020, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kraine View Post
Better than the official JVC figures, incredible but I don't believe it for a second.

You really touched the perfect copy.

The manufacturer announces at best 29 dB in economy mode and we all know that the manufacturer figures are always optimized.
So there is no chance that the NZ3 will reach 23 dB. Besides, I'd be surprised to know what sound level meter you use to go so low, Mike?
Another review:

https://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc...jector-review/
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post #216 of 267 Old 01-08-2020, 03:55 PM
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Any screen shoots available
Even a shootout vs the 5050 or ht5550 would be interesting.
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post #217 of 267 Old 01-09-2020, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
Any screen shoots available
Even a shootout vs the 5050 or ht5550 would be interesting.
I would like to see it compared to the Epson 5050. No need to compare it to the HT 5550 which is a well known disappointment.
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post #218 of 267 Old 01-09-2020, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
This projector is using the .47 TI DMD which is a native 1920x1080 panel. The image is shifted 4 times to simulate 4K.

historically these smaller DMD's have taken a large hit on native contrast, some in the 400-600:1 native contrast ratio range. The larger .66 2x shift DMD's have a bit better native some closer to 1000:1.

hopefully JVC did good work with the laser modulation which could help with the perceived contrast.

I wonder if this projector has the dreaded light border since it is using a .47 chip?
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post #219 of 267 Old 01-12-2020, 07:57 AM
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It seems like there's very little in feild data on this projector.
Is it still to new. Normally when jvc is released its tested by everyone.
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post #220 of 267 Old 01-13-2020, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Thanks - they do good reviews. I'll have this projector to play with shortly. I'll write up some observations and post some screen shots. And compare it to my RS4500.
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post #221 of 267 Old 01-13-2020, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Says "Native 4K UHD" in the specs/highlights. Would be nice to write that it is really a FullHD pixelshifter.

Even the competition uhz65's larger resolution is clearly said, but not the reviewed projectors native resolution.

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post #222 of 267 Old 01-13-2020, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
Says "Native 4K UHD" in the specs/highlights. Would be nice to write that it is really a FullHD pixelshifter.

Even the competition uhz65's larger resolution is clearly said, but not the reviewed projectors native resolution.

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As of right now, if it is DLP, we know it is a pixel shifter, even if we do not know the native resolution.
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post #223 of 267 Old 01-13-2020, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
As of right now, if it is DLP, we know it is a pixel shifter, even if we do not know the native resolution.
Unless it's $150K or more.
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post #224 of 267 Old 01-13-2020, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
Says "Native 4K UHD" in the specs/highlights. Would be nice to write that it is really a FullHD pixelshifter.

Even the competition uhz65's larger resolution is clearly said, but not the reviewed projectors native resolution.

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What benefit will that give? People was all upset with 4k eshift and I never understood why. It provides a 4k image and I am not sure why it needs to be stated that it's a pixel shifter projector. If you are purchasing a pixel shifter projector, I'm sure you are aware. If someone purchased one and was not aware, I still believe they would not really care as much.
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Last edited by blee0120; 01-13-2020 at 09:18 PM.
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post #225 of 267 Old 01-13-2020, 08:07 PM
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Isn't the best way to check if it is true UHD - is to use the 1:1 pixel checkerboard test pattern?

I believe the XPR4s pass this test (along with native UHD projectors) but not the old eShift JVCs and the Epsons
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post #226 of 267 Old 01-13-2020, 08:30 PM
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The pixel shifting definitely works better on DLP's, part of the reason I would guess is the wider pixel gap than LCOS, this is actually an advantage in the case of shifting pixels. Correct my if I'm wrong, but I think the Epson doesn't work as well simply because the speed they had to make it shift 2x instead of 4x, so it's actually lower-res than the DLP's. The JVC is harder to shift because the pixel fill is so tight, that the shifting doesn't do that much for the image unless you sit really close. Though I still have some A/B testing to do to determine if E-shift is even worth it, right now it's very borderline, it will be to some that sit close enough when they have a JVC that has perfect focus capability, but not all JVC's can even focus perfectly.

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post #227 of 267 Old 01-13-2020, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Unless it's $150K or more.
True, but that projector is even expensive for the 20k section of the forum.
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post #228 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
The pixel shifting definitely works better on DLP's, part of the reason I would guess is the wider pixel gap than LCOS, this is actually an advantage in the case of shifting pixels. Correct my if I'm wrong, but I think the Epson doesn't work as well simply because the speed they had to make it shift 2x instead of 4x, so it's actually lower-res than the DLP's. The JVC is harder to shift because the pixel fill is so tight, that the shifting doesn't do that much for the image unless you sit really close. Though I still have some A/B testing to do to determine if E-shift is even worth it, right now it's very borderline, it will be to some that sit close enough when they have a JVC that has perfect focus capability, but not all JVC's can even focus perfectly.
I think there are numerous reasons why DLP works.

DLP works by high speed mirrors - which is why you can get RGB (or CYMK) from one single panel. We don't consider a single DLP chip projector as a mono projector so why should we view XPR4 differently.

Since they sum up to 3 colors in the temporal domain, the same way they sum up to 4K in the temporal domain.

LCDs dont have such switch speeds, they use (i guess for the lack of a better term) "wobulation" to give the illusion of 2x (diagonally) resolution and not 4x (2x vertically and 2x horizontally) needed for 4K/UHD
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post #229 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
As of right now, if it is DLP, we know it is a pixel shifter, even if we do not know the native resolution.
Yes, I know that we do, but probably not the users outside these forums. Maybe it doesn't matter then, but I wouldn't call it Native 4K.

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post #230 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post
Isn't the best way to check if it is true UHD - is to use the 1:1 pixel checkerboard test pattern?



I believe the XPR4s pass this test (along with native UHD projectors) but not the old eShift JVCs and the Epsons
Can those really pass it? I have tried to find evidence, but haven't find any. Since the pixels are four times the size, I find it hard to believe. Would be nice to see pics.

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post #231 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post
Isn't the best way to check if it is true UHD - is to use the 1:1 pixel checkerboard test pattern?

I believe the XPR4s pass this test (along with native UHD projectors) but not the old eShift JVCs and the Epsons
The Optoma UHD60 I had didn't look that great using the 1:1 pixel checkerboard test pattern. But the picture looked pretty good. At least bright scenes. These DLP's really are best for HDTV and sports anyway.
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post #232 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 07:46 PM
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Nz3 vs uhz65 vs 5050 any idea how this will match up.
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post #233 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 07:53 PM
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I shipped off to Craig the NZ3 that I had, so you will be able to get a second opinion soon.
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post #234 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurter View Post
Nz3 vs uhz65 vs 5050 any idea how this will match up.
Contrast:
5050
uhz65
nz3

light output:
Nz3
5050
uhz65

colors:
5050
uhz65
nz3

uniformity/lens quality:
5050
nz3
uhz65

uhz65 and nz3 have rbe and no motion blur

5050 has misconvergence and motion blur

5050 has motorized lens and lens memory

nz3 has more lens shift than the uhz65

nz3 has dynamic tone mapping for hdr

5050 has bulb/filter costs maintenence

the uhz65 and nz3 are sharper with better mtf, no overshoot

lmk if i got any of those wrong and ill edit it :/

Last edited by bdht; 01-14-2020 at 08:22 PM.
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post #235 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Contrast:
5050
uhz65
nz3

light output:
Nz3
5050
uhz65

colors:
5050
uhz65
nz3

uniformity/lens quality:
5050
nz3
uhz65

uhz65 and nz3 have rbe and no motion blur

5050 has misconvergence and motion blur

5050 has motorized lens and lens memory

5050 has bulb/filter costs maintenence

the uhz65 and nz3 are sharper with better mtf, no overshoot

lmk if i got any of those wrong and ill edit it :/
NZ3 has more lens shift than the uhz65.
NZ3 has auto tone mapping, neither of the other two have this.
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post #236 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 08:19 PM
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Look forward to more opinions, though the benq 9060 is my dream PJ right now, maybe in a year they'll be cheaper...lol. Bright and laser/led are my 2 big wants. My poor JVC 4910 has at least 15 000 hrs.

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Watching in a room ensconced in velvet.
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post #237 of 267 Old 01-14-2020, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
The Optoma UHD60 I had didn't look that great using the 1:1 pixel checkerboard test pattern. But the picture looked pretty good. At least bright scenes. These DLP's really are best for HDTV and sports anyway.
That's cos the UHD60 was using XPR2 which was some weird 1.5x multiplier.
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post #238 of 267 Old 01-15-2020, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
Can those really pass it? I have tried to find evidence, but haven't find any. Since the pixels are four times the size, I find it hard to believe. Would be nice to see pics.

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Here's a 1 pixel test from a UHD300X compared to an Epson TW7000 (= HC3200?):


(open in a new tab for full resolution)

https://hd-beamers.nl/optoma-uhd300x...son-eh-tw7000/
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post #239 of 267 Old 01-15-2020, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
Here's a 1 pixel test from a UHD300X compared to an Epson TW7000 (= HC3200?):





(open in a new tab for full resolution)



https://hd-beamers.nl/optoma-uhd300x...son-eh-tw7000/
Thank you!

I cropped the 4K and FullHD checkerboards from that pic.

Top one is 4K, it looks full gray to me. Not a pass in any way.

Bottom is FullHD, that is ok since its the native resolution. But it would probably look even better without the pixel shift.

So, I still wouldn't call these Native 4K projectors.

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post #240 of 267 Old 01-15-2020, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
Thank you!

I cropped the 4K and FullHD checkerboards from that pic.

Top one is 4K, it looks full gray to me. Not a pass in any way.

Bottom is FullHD, that is ok since its the native resolution. But it would probably look even better without the pixel shift.

So, I still wouldn't call these Native 4K projectors.

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The 4K (8.3mp) test pattern is one pixel but the Full HD (2.07mp) test pattern would be 4 pixels. The UHD300X is able to draw a single pixel line and it is able to display a 2pixel checkerboard pattern which makes it clearly better than HD. Contrast that to the Epson which doesn't seem to be able to correctly render the 4 pixel checkerboard pattern.

We also have to consider lens quality here.
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Last edited by DunMunro; 01-15-2020 at 03:43 PM.
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