X790 eShift. Not true 4k but does it increase sharpness and do you use it often? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 03:05 AM
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Could you share where you got these images and time stamp as I’d like to compare with my Epson to see if the results are similar.
I know I have seen these in @ARROW-AV timeline. I am sorry I don't know the original source.

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post #32 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 03:16 AM
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Could you share where you got these images and time stamp as I’d like to compare with my Epson to see if the results are similar.
Sure they are mine, its my holiday photo

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n1vs326ax...IBpXpFUma?dl=0
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post #33 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 03:21 AM
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Sure they are mine, its my holiday photo

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n1vs326ax...IBpXpFUma?dl=0
LOL . Thank you.

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post #34 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 04:18 AM
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Sure they are mine, its my holiday photo

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n1vs326ax...IBpXpFUma?dl=0
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LOL . Thank you.

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Hi mate, I won’t be home for several hours plus would have to hook up a PC to everything so if you have everything ready to go can you do the test to see how the Epson performs in the same test. Obviously trying some of the image enhancement presets as well to see if they improve things or make them worse. Probably best to post on the Epson thread rather than disuse this one.

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post #35 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Unfortunately on this side of the water we get the equivalent to the 6050 minus the lamp and mount for £2550 which is less than half the retail price of the NX5 never mind it’s big brother. For me there would have to a significant improvement right across the board and frankly even with diminished returns I don’t believe the improvements justify the cost. Or should I say I’m not using my home cinema room enough to warrant the additional expense at the moment.
Totally understand. There's always a pain threshold unless you are well off enough to simply not care. It's odd how pricing works. Sony charges way less in Europe than the US for some models. JVC is more. Oh well it's not like you're settling for something. The Epson doesn't embarrass itself at anything IMO. It can hold it's own in much more expensive company.

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post #36 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I think I am understanding things, so help me out with something that will determine some of my setup.

With UHD content, what players are you folks using?
Despite not having true 4k panels, the JVC x790 accepts a full 4k signal, correct?
So if you input a 4k signal and use eShift it will look better than if you downscaled 4k to 1080p and fed it into the x790 and did not use eShift?
I didn't realize that feeding the x790 4k and then using eShift is not the same as, and better than just upscaling 1080p (whether originally 4k or not). And yes, I know about HDR, but I am just talking resolutions now. I guess I will have to get into the HDR options later. I guess I could have asked about this in the thread regarding the x790 but I suppose it's ok because I am getting feedback from other eShift users including some with other PJ's.

I bought an Epson 1080 UB around 12 years ago and used it briefly, then bought a JVC RS40 and didn't even open the box before having to move (to a house that unfortunately was not projector friendly). Now I will be selling my Sony HW-45ES with less than 25 hours on it! I liked the smooth yet sharp look of the Sony but the black levels and contrast were not to my liking. I am hoping I love this PJ and look forward to an NX _ in 2-3 years with a contrast ratio of close to 1,300,000:1 and nice deep black levels.

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post #37 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 08:50 AM
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Ok, I think I am understanding things, so help me out with something that will determine some of my setup.



With UHD content, what are you using? Despite not having true 4k panels, the JVC x790 accepts a full 4k signal, correct? And this can look better when you use eShift? And if you input a 4k signal and use eShift it will look better than if you downscaled 4k to 1080p and fed it into the x790 and did not use eShift? Let's imagine the JVC x790 did not have eShift.
I can only speak about the 6050 eshift function. When the 6050 recognizes a 4K signal the eshift is automatically engaged to produce as close to 4k resolution as is it capable of displaying. You do not have the option to shut off eshift when sending a 4K signal to the projector. Not sure why you would want to turn it off in that scenario.

When the 6050 recognizes a 1080P signal you can either allow the projector to accept the 1080P with no conversion to 4K or there is a setting to allow the 1080P signal to be upscaled to 4K. I prefer to allow the 1080P signal to be upscaled. Some owners prefer the 1080P signal be projected as is.

I believe the 790 works the same way.

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post #38 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by cpc View Post
Ok, I think I am understanding things, so help me out with something that will determine some of my setup.

With UHD content, what are you using? Despite not having true 4k panels, the JVC x790 accepts a full 4k signal, correct? And this can look better when you use eShift? And if you input a 4k signal and use eShift it will look better than if you downscaled 4k to 1080p and fed it into the x790 and did not use eShift? Let's imagine the JVC x790 did not have eShift for comparisons sake, but we don't have to. I didn't realize that feeding the x790 4k and then using eShift is not the same as, and better than just upscaling 1080p (whether originally 4k or not). And yes, I know about HDR, but I am just talking resolutions now. I guess I will have to get into the HDR options later.
It does accept a 4K signal and it will use e-shift to show more of that 4K data with it's 1080 panel. This does increase actual resolution and detail which produces a better image. It will look much better than downsampling to 1080 and disabling e-shift as you are throwing away resolution/data.

If you've seen a good 4K capable projector fed a UHD 4K disc, you're in for a treat!


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post #39 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
I can only speak about the 6050 eshift function. When the 6050 recognizes a 4K signal the eshift is automatically engaged to produce as close to 4k resolution as is it capable of displaying. You do not have the option to shut off eshift when sending a 4K signal to the projector. Not sure why you would want to turn it off in that scenario.

When the 6050 recognizes a 1080P signal you can either allow the projector to accept the 1080P with no conversion to 4K or there is a setting to allow the 1080P signal to be upscaled to 4K. I prefer to allow the 1080P signal to be upscaled. Some owners prefer the 1080P signal be projected as is.

I believe the 790 works the same way.

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That makes sense. Well I guess the bottom line is, you are getting better than 1080p using these quasi 4k shift functions. Nice to know they use the 4k signal when doing the eShift. I suppose I will experiment, although I do not have a 4k player atm. People mention the Panasonic 820.
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post #40 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 08:56 AM
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That makes sense. Well I guess the bottom line is, you are getting better than 1080p using these quasi 4k shift functions. Nice to know they use the 4k signal when doing the eShift. I suppose I will experiment, although I do not have a 4k player atm. People mention the Panasonic 820.
The 820 is excellent and definitely recommend to pair with the JVC. I used one with my RS520 with outstanding results.
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post #41 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The 820 is excellent and definitely recommend to pair with the JVC. I used one with my RS520 with outstanding results.
Are there different models of the 820? I will investigate. OMG it has multi-channel outputs! I must get this thing

Suffice to say the HDR issues can be handled by this player? I hear about auto tone mapping etc. I guess that is another issue outside of resolution to do with HDR.

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post #42 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 09:03 AM
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That makes sense. Well I guess the bottom line is, you are getting better than 1080p using these quasi 4k shift functions. Nice to know they use the 4k signal when doing the eShift. I suppose I will experiment, although I do not have a 4k player atm. People mention the Panasonic 820.
I love my Panasonic ub820. It has the optimizer on it which is basically Auto tone mapping for HDR content. If the disc contains metadata about how many nits the movie was mastered in, the player takes that data and essentially remasters it for the nit capability of your display.

For a television not sure how valuable it is because televisions have much higher nit capability but for projectors, which are inherently under 300 nits, it is a fantastic feature for viewing HDR content.

Most movies are mastered between 1000 and 4000 nits. Trying to display that accurately on a sub 300 nit display can be quite challenging without auto tone mapping, that is why the new JVC True 4k projectors have onboard auto tone mapping. Not all discs contain metadata so still some challenges when watching HDR movies on a projector.

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post #43 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok looks like a great option. How is it with 1080p BD and DVD?
I think I can replace my older Oppo with this.

My only issue I will need to work on is audio delay problems. I had issues with the Oppo and my Sony HW45ES.
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post #44 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 09:09 AM
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Are there different models of the 820? I will investigate.

Suffice to say the HDR issues can be handled by this player? I hear about auto tone mapping etc. I guess that is another issue outside of resolution to do with HDR.
There is a more expensive 9000 model that has an extra HDR mode not found in the 820, but I don't see it justifying the cost difference.

The UB820 with its HDR optimizer gets rid of a lot of the headaches of HDR. Once you get the settings you like dialed in you'll be set for most discs and the built in streaming apps. For discs that don't play nice (those that lack metadata) the optimizer is intuitive and easy to dial in. This is scratching the surface of a bigger topic. For a deep dive I'd look at the owners thread for both the player and the projector. But overall these two components paired together will give you a fantastic picture.
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post #45 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 09:10 AM
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Ok looks like a great option. How is it with 1080p BD and DVD?
I think I can replace my older Oppo with this.

My only issue I will need to work on is audio delay problems. I had issues with the Oppo and my Sony HW45ES.
It's a great upscaling player. Right up there with the Oppo.
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post #46 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 09:13 AM
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Ok looks like a great option. How is it with 1080p BD and DVD?
I think the Panasonic ub820 has fantastic upconversion of BD to 4K . My 6050 then receives that 4K signal. If the BD was filmed using high resolution cameras such as anything above 35mm for older films and 3500K for new films the end results on the projector are absolutely fantastic.

Some people prefer to not have the Panasonic ub820 do the conversion and send the 1080P signal instead and let the projector do the upconversion. I am not in that camp. Obviously older films will show more grain because you are upscaling for more details which will enhance the grain as well. I do not mind the grain.

Some people prefer digitally shot films which don't have any grain. But since some people like filmic look grain produces some digitally shot films actually add faux film grain back into the image. Not such a big fan of faux grain.

I had an Oppo 203 for 18 months before my Panasonic ub820. I prefer my 820 in every respect over my Oppo. I sold my Oppo 203 on AudioMart for over double what I paid for it originally.

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Last edited by skylarlove1999; 09-05-2019 at 09:17 AM.
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post #47 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok. I will look into the 820 thread and see where it is available for how much.

One more question though. Does the 820 stream any 4k content now? I don't even know if anything is 4k from Netflix or other services yet. If not, will it be possible the 820 will stream 4k in the future?

The Oppo players do have some neat features like HDMI input too but...not sure if I will need that.

thanks folks

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Ok. I will look into the 820 thread and see where it is available for how much.



One more question though. Does the 820 stream any 4k content now? I don't even know if anything is 4k from Netflix or other services yet. If not, will it be possible the 820 will stream 4k in the future?



thanks folks



Panasonic only offers two streaming apps that have 4K/HDR, Netflix and Amazon Prime. I have only gotten my Panasonic ub820 to connect to Netflix twice. It is a known issue with Panasonic for years so much so they have "solutions" listed on their own website. Needless to say I haven't found their solutions to be successful. I haven't tried very much because they lack a Vudu app. I have over 2300 movies on Vudu. Over 100 in UHD. I wouldn't count on the Panasonic to pull double duty.

http://eng-ca.faq.panasonic.com/app/...aming-properly.

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Ok looks like a great option. How is it with 1080p BD and DVD?
I think I can replace my older Oppo with this.

My only issue I will need to work on is audio delay problems. I had issues with the Oppo and my Sony HW45ES.
This one is up for debate, those of us with the Epson feel that with 1080P discs it’s better to let the projector do the upscaling, don’t ask me why this should be but I feel it looks a bit better with the Epson doing the upscaling. The issue is that for some reason only known to Panasonic you don’t get the option to play 1080P discs as 1080P when the resolution is set to auto as the unit automatically looks at what the TV/projector is capable of producing and sets the resolution accordingly which is 4K, for this reason I have two Blu-ray players, a Sony X700 for 1080P and the Panasonic for 4K because of its auto tone mapping function.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Panasonic only offers two streaming apps that have 4K/HDR, Netflix and Amazon Prime. I have only gotten my Panasonic ub820 to connect to Netflix twice. It is a known issue with Panasonic for years so much so they have "solutions" listed on their own website. Needless to say I haven't found their solutions to be successful. I haven't tried very much because they lack a Vudu app. I have over 2300 movies on Vudu. Over 100 in UHD. I wouldn't count on the Panasonic to pull double duty.

http://eng-ca.faq.panasonic.com/app/...aming-properly.

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My UB9000 connects to Netflix every time, issue free. Strange that the 820 has issues.
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post #51 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 10:35 AM
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This one is up for debate, those of us with the Epson feel that with 1080P discs it’s better to let the projector do the upscaling, don’t ask me why this should be but I feel it looks a bit better with the Epson doing the upscaling. The issue is that for some reason only known to Panasonic you don’t get the option to play 1080P discs as 1080P when the resolution is set to auto as the unit automatically looks at what the TV/projector is capable of producing and sets the resolution accordingly which is 4K, for this reason I have two Blu-ray players, a Sony X700 for 1080P and the Panasonic for 4K because of its auto tone mapping function.
The Epson handles scaling and image processing differently. For the JVC the Panasonic is the better option vs. internal scaling. The JVC isn't bad, but the Panasonic is better here.
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My UB9000 connects to Netflix every time, issue free. Strange that the 820 has issues.
I agree it is strange. Amazon prime through the 820 connects every time.

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My UB9000 connects to Netflix every time, issue free. Strange that the 820 has issues.
Likewise with my 420 which is the 820 minus the multi-channel audio. Though admittedly I’m in the UK

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Likewise with my 420 which is the 820 minus the multi-channel audio. Though admittedly I’m in the UK
Does the 420 have the HDR optimizer?

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No issues connecting to Netflix on my 820.

Use it all the time.
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post #56 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 12:24 PM
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No issues connecting to Netflix on my 820.



Use it all the time.
Okay so I am the only one. LOL.

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Does the 420 have the HDR optimizer?

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Yep, apart from DV and the multi-channel outputs the spec of both machines are identical.

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post #58 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 01:38 PM
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Yep, apart from DV and the multi-channel outputs the spec of both machines are identical.
Cool thank you I appreciate that sounds like I could have bought the cheaper chicken LOL

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post #59 of 59 Old 09-05-2019, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info regarding eShift folks.
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